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THE CHAIR OF the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) Brian Stanley has told the HSE boss Paul Reid to “knock heads together” in order to reduce the waiting times over 75s face in hospitals.
A recent parliamentary question by Sinn Féin’s David Cullinane revealed that the average waiting time for admission to hospital emergency departments last month was nearly 14 hours for people 75 years of age and over.
The data indicates that the waiting time was nearly twice that duration in two Cork hospitals.
Five hospitals – Naas General Hospital, St Vincent’s Hospital, Cork University Hospital, Mercy University Hospital and University Hospital Limerick – had an average wait time of more than 20 hours for patients aged over 75.
In 23 out of the 27 adult hospitals, this age cohort had a longer wait from registration to admission than those aged under 75.
The target for patient experience time (PET) – the time from Emergency Department registration to either admission to a hospital or discharge home - for patients aged over 75 is 95% within six hours and 99% within nine hours.
The number of patients overall waiting more than 48 hours in an ED was 40% higher than April 2019, and for those aged 75 it was 70% higher.
One-third of patients overall had a wait time of less than six hours.
Commenting on the figures, Cullinane said it was “outrageous” that wait times in particular for those aged over 75 were so high.
“It should be a key priority for each hospital to reduce their ED wait times across the board but in particular for older people,” he said.
He pointed out that the 20-hour average wait time for some hospitals meant that some people were waiting longer than that, in some cases for a number of days before they were admitted.
“These are people with acute needs, some in chronic pain, waiting for admission,” he said.
Cullinane said there is “no magic solution” to the issue, as it is due to a number of factors including inpatient bed capacity and a lack of resources in the community to facilitate discharges for older patients.
“Many find it difficult to get support packages in particular for older people who need a recovery bed or to go to a nursing home or to convalesce, the resources are not there,” he said.
“And while the funding is there for intensive home care packages, they don’t have enough staff to provide the service.
“To add to that we have a growing crisis in GP care, people are waiting to access GP services, out of hours services in many areas are patchy so in some areas people are left with no choice but to go to an ED.”
He said Emergency Departments are “picking up the slack for a failure to ensure” there is appropriate capacity in GP care, primary care and community care in general.
In response to a query from The Journal, the HSE said reasons that result in longer wait times include volume of patients presenting to the Emergency Department and the requirement to prioritise, treat and care for the sickest and older cohort of patients and those with life threatening illnesses.
“This can mean that patients with less serious illnesses and conditions may need to wait longer for their treatment,” it said.
The HSE said a patient’s experience can include multiple steps and delays in any one of these events or services increase a patient’s wait time and can create bottlenecks in the ED.
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“Emergency Department wait times are also affected by what’s happening outside of the hospital Emergency Department, in both the hospital and the community,” the HSE said.
This includes such things as the availability of inpatient beds within acute hospitals for acute admissions, the availability of community beds and or home care support for those patients in acute settings who are medically for transfer or discharge to the community. These factors in turn slow down the transfer of patients from the ED.
‘Intolerable’
Committee members, including Stanley, said that substantial funding was going into the Irish health system, but it “seems we are not making any headway”, he said.
“What is HSE going to do to address that,” he asked.
“Hopefully everyone in this room will see 75 years,” said Stanley, adding that “it is just an intolerable situation in a well-funded health system”.
Reid said Irish hospitals were seeing increased levels in the presentation of over 75s to Accident and Emergency. He said the HSE is working with individual hospitals in a bid to get community healthcare networks in place to shift presentations away from the acute hospitals.
As the winter months approach, Reid said things will be done differently, stating that given the current situation with Covid, he would hope that dual pathways of access to hospital will reopen.
Stanley urged the HSE to look at the work of Kilkenny Regional Hospital, whereby streaming has been introduced, which involves GPs directly referring people to A&E.
Reid said it was a “really good example”, stating that the HSE is aiming to “pick up the best practices”.
Sec Gen salary
Wexford Independent TD Verona Murphy robustly questioned the Secretary General of the Department of Health Robert Watt asking him:
“Have you identified a problem and you don’t know what to do about it? Have you not identified the problem in which case it’s getting worse or are you paid a large salary which you get regardless and just don’t care?”
Secretary General of the Department of Health Robert Watt
‘Third world service’
Murphy said for the money that was being invested into the health service, the public are getting a third world service. This was subsequently denied by Reid.
She acknowledged that the health service is a massive area to manage, but said the fact that over 75s are waiting more than 14 hours in emergency departments shows that the home care supports – and the Government’s pledge to deliver an additional one million hours – is not being delivered upon.
Murphy said Watt was the new “top dog” in the department, and asked what he was doing to ensure funding was being translated into services.
Watt said the department’s priority is to ensure we are getting value for money
He said he was dedicated to the delivery of Sláintecare and the new Regional Health Areas, which he said will “reform the way in which we fund the health service including a pathway to implement population based funding and multi-annual budgeting”.
In addition, the committee was also told that the HSE is set to record a deficit of more than €250 million for the first three months of 2022.
Additional reporting by Christina Finn.
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@David Corrigan: “Studying at night, he took a Bachelor of Arts degree in human resources and industrial relations at the National College of Ireland, and later a Masters in Business Administration at Trinity College Dublin”
@OConnelj: With about 10 years experience. Clearly he has no authority or ability to influence change within the organisation he is supposed to be managing.
@David Corrigan: At this stage it would probably be cheaper for the state to pay for everyones private health insurrance and let the private hospitals sort it out, not going to work I know.
@In the paper: Brilliant! Give that man a banana. So Einstein, after you’ve sacked all those admin staff, who will recruit and pay those doctors and nurses, and who will order all of the drugs and consumables that are required?
@Terry Larkin: In fairness Terry – I’m closely related to several people that work in the health service in lots of different roles, carers, nurses, physio and even Admin. And ALL of them say that there are too many admin staff
Why the waiting time of 14 hours for people aged 75 and over… do they expect them to die whilst waiting for examination..???? disgusting and immoral treatment of the elderly
@Terry Larkin: does anybody know if we look at health services that are best in class if the Irish system of sending everyone to A+E is a good system >?? when i see the a+e full of drunken idiots and fella with twisted ankle in the same q as 76 year olds with serious problems being delayed 16 hours it seems idiotic system to be so determined to insist as the ONLY way to manage our health system -
@John O Mahony: And how precisely do you imagine (assuming that you have an imagination) would that improve things? Feel free to use crayons to illustrate your answer.
@Terry Larkin: clearly they are not improving things which suggests to me that they are not fit for purpose so they should be re-assigned to roles more suited to their capabilities.
If it was the private sector they would have been moved on long ago.
As a medical scientist seeing what I do,the salary, conditions,the work etc it is just beyond belief that this man could earn such a salary,it really is beyond belief.The health service is run by clowns there is no doubt about it ,top , middle and bottom,it’s rotten to the core
@Paul Owens: at the risk of being lynched can I ask what is it that you do that you feel is so amazing and what pay do you feel a) you should be on and b) he should be on. Many people work hard but to say you work hard so Reid shouldn’t get his salary is what looses me. I think he’s not only over paid but also hasn’t been held to task for his failings or the system he is responsible for failings. I have to ask thou why do you stay in the hse when you clearly feel the pay is not reflecting your input etc etc?!
@Sarah Lou: Hi Sarah we protect u and everybody from all those little nasty viruses, bacteria , parasites, fungi,and when u end in hospital u will need a little thing called an antibiotic,and all those nasty little things that are trying to kill u Apart from that it’s not really important!
@Sarah Lou: Oh by the way he is a pen pusher,an administrator so do I think I should be paid more,,,I will let u decide when God forbid u or your loved ones end up in hospital.
@Paul Owens: you have lost me. You protect me from viruses…..have we not just come out of over 2 years of restrictions to protect ourselves from viruses. Should all people in your role be let go for letting that one past?! How in the name of whomever do you think you protect me from viruses? Also the “little thing called antibiotics” you have so helpfully noted….do you whip them up in the lab for me?? I mean seriously you appear to feel you are the sole thing between the world and it’s ending. I think you should consider alternative employers as you are clearly disgruntled with your current one.
@Sarah Lou: U really are clueless ,go into any hospital lab and learn ,u never will,u didn’t protect yourselves,we protected u,and do every day,u live every day and take all things for granted,that’s the crux,u take it for granted!!!
@Paul Owens: Paul firstly you know literally nothing about me. I kept myself safe throu covid, I cocooned! You did not at any point maintain my safety. You appear to have lost touch with reality.
@Paul Owens: you do a job you are paid for. Just like the electrical workers that keep the incubator working, the food producer that feeds you, the sewage worker that keeps you from getting sick. You are not a magic healer, just another worker who has been educated to do a job.
@Paul Owens: she only asked you a few questions, she wasnt aggressive either, so there is no need to shout her down in the manner you have done, If you’ve had a bad day why didn’t you just scroll on by, jeeze
Finally, the poor nurse on duty came out at one stage & advised people to go home & come back as it could be up to 14 hrs before they’d be seen. I’m an ex employee of this hospital & feel so much for the staff. They’re doing all they can but are being disrespected so much
Spent some time (12 hours to be exact) in a+e in sligo this week. An elderly gentleman in a wheelchair was there almost as long as myself, it got very cold and another patient took out a dressing gown to put over his legs. A shameful thing to witness, the HSE is not fit for purpose.
Slaintecare i.e the HSE has done such a wonderful job let’s give it even more control of the system. Great. Btw while I agree with the TD from Wexford the same criticism could be levelled at her and all other TDs. If the country was a corporation the shareholders would have fired the management long ago
2/2 that the hospital will only pay for 2 drs to be on call at weekends and the hospital wards take priority over A&E. There isn’t even anywhere to get anything to eat, just a vending machine. Also, a contraindication for clots…… sitting to long. Just disgraceful
1/2 My mother attended A&E about 2 months ago for a suspected clot when one of her ankles was swollen after a fall. The sweet lady is 79. She sat for 11 hrs before being seen for 10 minutes. I’m not blaming the staff. I’ve since been reliably informed by a friend who works there
Dismantle the entire HSE and rebuild it from scratch. It’s not fit for purpose. Send a task-force to countries that have better quality healthcare with similar spending and figure out what they are doing right that we are not doing.
Get rid of the wastage at management level and hire more consultants and other frontline staff.
As if that will change anything,I got a letter in the post this morning to ask did I still wasn’t to see ENT specalist,I’m on the 4 years in June,I’ve lost the hearing in my right ear,I’ve been diagnosed with Fybomilga and Sjorgens autoimmunes,and they badly affect ears,nose and mouth,il probably be gone deaf in the left year,if I have to wait the same time again
A complete new HSE Metrics system is needed. No more stupid trolley counts. Get someone from the Airline or Credit card or motor industry to come in and define proper metrics. And ignore comparators with other health system because all the legacy metrics are self serving across EU … designed for more resources, more of us.
Like:-
Customer Process Time (airlines which have higher safety requirements)
Number of handoffs …
Cost per patient processed .. all in costs ..every porter every admin every medic
… HSE Mgt are politicians .. they have no interest in new metrics which will expose the productivity issues in the HSE Someone must take the HSE by the scruff and make the break in metrics with the international legacy metrics … got to do it else No Change – Guarenteed.
You Go to your hospital and say you want to see any doctor or nurce that works in hospital 15/25 people arrive. Ask to see any member of administrative staff, 100/130 people. Ask to see the very importnat contractors the administrative staff contract manage, they ring and then maybe 1/2 day later another 80 people show up.
Thats it really its an upside down staff pyramid and the spend is so large its a total mess contractors that haven’t even been to site in years.. . .
What they really need is are six sigma / lean consultants to come in and ruthlessly gut the place but that’ll never happen, too many vested interests, trade unions, politics etc.
Really need to model the health system on one that works. Look at other countries with a top class health system and change ours. Long term this would give us a chance especially the over 75s.
Listen up there, — the HSE is not there to serve the public , it is ALL about those that ” Work” in it . OK , Doctors & Nurses in the main, are great people , but the PEN PUSHERS ??? , they are a breed all to themselves , several Levels of them, some one Level above, some above that again . It’s All about them, the people whom they should serve don’t matter . A Monster out of control , at this stage nobody, but nobody, could Manage that outfit .
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