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Police search for 'distinctive' robber who's missing her front teeth

Police are looking for witnesses to provide information they may have.

A WOMAN MISSING some of her front teeth is being sought by police over a knifepoint robbery.

Detectives are investigating after a woman robbed a Belfast off licence yesterday.

Detective Sergeant Nigel Snoddy said:

At around 11.40am on Tuesday a female entered the premises on the Gilnahirk Road. She engaged a female shop assistance in conversation before producing a knife and demanding money from the safe.
She made off on foot, in a countrywards direction, with a sum of cash.

The shop assistant describes the robber as:

  • In her 50s or 60s
  • 5′ 7″ tall
  • Medium build
  • Missing upper front teeth

She was wearing:

  • A black wide-rimmed ‘wedding’ style hat
  • Black sunglasses
  • A black short sleeved blouse with a white floral pattern
  • Black leather gloves

Police said the woman’s description is “distinctive” and they are hoping that witnesses will have noticed this woman in the area.

Information can be given to detectives by calling the non-emergency number 101, or anonymously through Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111.

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12 Comments
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    Mute Seamus Enright
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 8:54 AM

    I have reservations about her but it’s probably best they all get behind a single candidate to save America from Project 2025.

    John John or one of his aliases will be along shortly to tell me Trump has nothing to do with the Project created by members of his last administration.

    82
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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 9:03 AM

    @Seamus Enright: No ‘probably’ about it: it’s going to take a major effort to prevent the disaster of another Trump presidency (especially given the skewed voting system), and Democrats need to pull out all the stops.

    58
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    Mute Oh Mammy
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 9:07 AM

    @Brendan O’Brien: explain the skewed voting system Brendan

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    Mute barry fay
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 9:10 AM

    @Oh Mammy: Brendan thinks that everything that goes against his lefty green agenda is Skewed. #climatechangewillkillusall.. aaarrgghhh

    64
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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 9:11 AM

    @Oh Mammy: You’ve heard of the electoral college? It means that the candidate with the most votes (e.g. Hillary Clinton) doesn’t necessarily win the presidency.

    I shouldn’t have to explain this to an adult.

    72
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    Mute Seamus Enright
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 9:15 AM

    @Oh Mammy: They have an electoral system designed in the 18th century to protect slave owners. It gives winning candidates all the electoral college votes from each state. It allowed George W. Bush to beat Al Gore with half a million fewer votes and Trump to beat Hilary Clinton with 3 million fewer votes.

    63
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    Mute Oh Mammy
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 9:28 AM

    @Brendan O’Brien: its not skewed. Its the system in place since the founding of the country. It elected republican and democrat president’s since it’s foundation. That you do not like it because your candidate lost in 2020 is infantile and typical of you.

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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 9:32 AM

    @Oh Mammy: I don’t like it because it means that some people’s votes count for more than others’: how can that be fair?

    Trump lost in 2020: Biden won.

    35
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    Mute Seamus Enright
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 9:53 AM

    @John John: I do know, Project 2025 wants to ban abortion completely and Trump is the man that bragged that “We broke Roe Vs Wade!”

    He “broke” it by appointing three conservative supreme court justices. This isn’t that complicated.

    A reasonably intelligent person who could write a single paragraph without any grammatical or punctuation mistakes like “they were in agree on” would be able to understand this.

    27
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    Mute Oh Mammy
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 10:02 AM

    @ its not a majority wins system, by clever design. Nobody cares what you like.’Brien:

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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 10:25 AM

    @Oh Mammy: And if it returned a Democratic candidate who had fewer votes than the Republican, you would explode with righteous indignation.

    Intellectual rigour is not your strong point.

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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 10:36 AM
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    Mute Oh Mammy
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 10:44 AM

    @Brendan O’Brien: I would not. It has happened before. Conservatives do not burn down cities when they lose. Peddle.your disinformation elsewhere.

    18
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 11:04 AM

    @Oh Mammy: When has it ‘happened before’?

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    Mute Tricia G28
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 11:05 AM

    @Oh Mammy: “Conservatives do not burn down cities when they lose.” – Trump supporters literally attacked the Capitol trying to prevent the certification of the election because Trump LIED and continues to lie about the fact he lost the election.

    For the first time since the creation of the country, there wasn’t a peaceful transfer of power. Trump did that.

    27
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    Mute LuxLad
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 11:33 AM

    @Seamus Enright: Thanks for taking the time to explain the blatantly obvious to those who flatly refuse to see what is there in front of them. Might I also add that the corruption in the US electoral system goes much further than the electoral college. Gerrymandering is standard procedure in Repiublican states and those states have also introduced legislation making it difficult – and in some cases impossible – for blue collar voters to vote. Biden was actually lucky to win by as much as he did in 2020, given how much the Republican states did everything they could to block voters exercising their democratic right.

    16
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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 11:44 AM

    @John John: It’s well established that Trump is a misogynist who thinks it’s OK to assault women and who is perfectly happy to see the curtailment of women’s rights.

    I haven’t mentioned ‘Project 2025′.

    15
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    Mute Seamus Enright
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 12:47 PM

    @John John: I don’t see any point in arguing with someone who can’t come up with a better argument than that Donald Trump, the man who boasted about “breaking” Roe Vs Wade by appointing three conservative supreme court justices is an ardent pro-choicer, and then accusing anyone who points this out of ignorance.

    Of course Trump is going to distance himself from Project 2025 as it has many deeply unpopular and sinister aspects.

    Please don’t respond to this as I am sick of your idiocy and poor grammar.

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    Mute ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 1:14 PM

    @John John: He has tried to distance himself from project 2025, because he knows how harmful that would be among those not in the Cult.

    But there are tapes…

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    Mute ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 1:26 PM

    @Oh Mammy: Any system that allows a minority to win an election is undemocratic.

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    Mute Regular John
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 2:11 PM

    @Seamus Enright:
    Read your last comment again. For somebody that is banging on about grammar you don’t seem to know when commas are needed and when they are not. Embarrassed for you !

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    Mute Oh Mammy
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 9:09 AM

    Watch the videos of Tulsi Gabbard dismantle Harris in the 2020 debates.

    68
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    Mute Paul Hayes
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 9:06 AM

    Her record prior to being VP will mean she has no chance & they know it. This election is over. Now it’s about optics. If they wanted to win they’d put Sanders forward but he actually represents a new way of doing things & that would be bad for the Uni party. Trump, for all their hand wringing & gesticulation is just more of the same, just a little less evasive as to their true intentions.

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    Mute Niall Murphy
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 10:14 AM

    Harris hasn’t a hope, she’s a gobs…te of the highest order.

    What amazes me is how so many people are caught up in the identity pr politics.
    Has half the world been asleep and not noticed the mess that has continued to develop inside the USA under Biden/Harris ‘leadership’ not to mention the Ukrainian war and Gaza war both occurring and continuing under their noses with no plan to stop either war??
    The industrial war killing machine has been served very well by this administration and their profits are healthier than ever, well done Democrats

    61
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    Mute Fidgenti
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 9:44 AM

    An endorsement from AOC is the kiss of death. She and Hillary Clinton are not only an embarrassment to the Democratic party but they have helped erode its base substantially.They are the gift that keeps on giving for The Orange Turd.

    35
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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 9:50 AM

    @Fidgenti: When the US catches up with the thinking of AOC it will finally be a proper republic. Sadly, that day is a long way off.

    15
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    Mute Oh Mammy
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 10:05 AM

    @Brendan O’Brien: AOC ? Proper Republic? You are equally part of the problem.

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    Mute Fidgenti
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 10:39 AM

    @Brendan O’Brien: Define a ” proper republic ” please. I googled it and got the same definition as for ” republic”. Given that AOC is a self claimed Partial Democratic Socialist and proponent of anarcho syndicalism, should I take it that your distant “proper republic” will be predicated on such beliefs.
    Sounds like you have a very Irish interpretation of what a “proper” republic is.

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    Mute Brendan O'Brien
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 11:07 AM

    @Fidgenti: A proper republic = one that is based on true equality rather than the appeasement of powerful vested interests such as big business and the gun lobby.

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    Mute LuxLad
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 11:39 AM

    @Brendan O’Brien: Like dat – well said!

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    Mute LuxLad
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 11:48 AM

    @Fidgenti: BTW, social democracy and anarcho-syndicalism are about as far from each other as Trump and decency are. So explain how AOC is both a social democrat (e.g., Gordon Brown) and an anarcho-syndicalist (e.g. Noam Chomsky).

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    Mute ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 1:19 PM

    @Fidgenti: That the US has a justice system that blatantly treats people from different classes in very different ways should alone tell you that the US is not a proper republic.

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    Mute Fidgenti
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 2:21 PM

    @LuxLad: “She is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America and embraces the democratic socialist label as part of her political identity. ” Wikipedia-AOC-political positions

    She has also said that market economies are not incompatible with democratic socialism as long as workers control companies, citing worker cooperatives as a model.[247]

    This is anarcho-syndicalism

    2
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    Mute ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 2:37 PM

    @Fidgenti: No it is not.

    Co-operatives, Mutual Societies and the like have long been used both here and abroad with great success.

    Somehow we were not and did not become an anarchist society as a result.

    If you want to a group to criticise for being anarchists in the US, then look no further than those who call themselves Libertarians.
    (Although there are even greater wingnuts in groups such as those who call themselves ‘Sovereign Citizens’, and the like.)

    1
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    Mute Phillip Smyth
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 9:16 AM

    Why should she not run she’s getting the support of her colleagues maybe she can Trump a contest we do not know now but I believe she has a great debating prowess ,she gave brett Kavanaugh a griiing in his quest for Supreme Court justice of the USA he was the Trump nominee I watched it and was anazing she will not win the presidency but will give Trump a hard time I hope they let her run he needs someone to pin his ears back and boy God can she do it sure she can ,good luck to her and get him reeling if there is a debate.

    28
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    Mute Ciaran Foster
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 1:41 PM

    @Phillip Smyth: on the uppers again?

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    Mute Sean Money
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 10:20 AM

    Looks like an easy win for Trumpy now

    20
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    Mute Kieran Mac C
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 10:32 AM

    It boggles the mind that such shrewd and sly actors as the D.P. can paint themselves into a corner where they are obliged to select a deeply unpopular and unelectable presidential candidate. After years of lies and corruption I suppose they are arrived at a proper conclusion. They will have 4 years to reset. They should ditch the extreme policies and focus in improving people’s lives and showing leadership that doesn’t involve bombing the shht out of every other country in the middle East

    28
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    Mute Kieran Mac C
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 10:35 AM

    @Kieran Mac C: I really mean every second country in the Middle East. I don’t see trumpy threatening to start Wars

    12
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    Mute ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 12:40 PM

    @Kieran Mac C: ‘Tis the Rebublican Party that starts wars in that region, as well as turning Central America into killing fields, which they did under Reagan.

    It’s the Republican Party that block initiatives that would make peoples lives better.

    You’ll find that life expectancy, crime, education and living standards are lower in Republican dominated states.

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    Mute ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 12:44 PM

    @ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: ‘…life expectancy, education and living standards are lower in Republican dominated states, while crime rates are higher.’

    Republicans look after the interests of corporations and billionaires.

    And themselves.

    2
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    Mute Kieran Mac C
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 1:47 PM

    @ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: trump doesn’t start wars. He stated he wants to stop them. Feic history, this is now

    4
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    Mute ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 3:14 PM

    @Kieran Mac C: Well, let’s look at some of what Trump did, and then see if we can link deaths and destruction to those, shall we?

    1) Trump abandoned the Nuclear agreement with Iran, and then imposed sanctions even though Iran kept their side of the agreement. As a result, Iran has since recommenced its nuclear weapons programme.
    2) The US has long had a policy of not recognising territories seized by Israelis from Palestinians legitimate. Trump reversed this, delivering a blow to Palestinian who might still have hope to have their illegally stolen lands returned, and encouraging further illegal theft of Palestinian land by the Israeli colonists.
    3) Trump ramped up drone attacks all across the region, murdering many.
    4) Trump refused to hand over US aid to Ukraine, hamstringing its ability to defend against the russian invasion. This refusal was illegal – because it was aid legislated by US Congress – and led to his 1st impeachment.
    5) Trump cosied up to autocrats and their ilk, normalising and rewarding their behaviour, and encouragin more of the same.

    The World is a worse place for Trump having been in it.

    The World is a far worse place for Trump having been president of the US.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhxxR-46Cjo

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    Mute Kieran Mac C
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 7:07 PM

    @ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: I disagree

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    Jul 22nd 2024, 8:34 PM

    @Kieran Mac C: Take it up with those who were around Trump then.

    1
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    Mute ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 9:56 AM

    The most interesting development will be the choice of VP contender.

    There are many in the US Democratic Party that have been taking Republicans apart in Congress, such as Schiff, Raskin, Porter, et al.
    And there is, of course, Warren.

    Then there are those holding state offices such as Newsom and Whitmer.
    But 2 contenders from the same state would be unlikely, so that would probably eliminate Newsom and Schiff.
    And 2 women on the same ticket, never mind 2 non-white women, would probably preclude a number of others.

    (Oh, if the US Democratic Party had not played games in 2016 and had selected Sanders…
    And they had a 2nd chance to do so in 2020.)

    14
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    Mute Oh Mammy
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 10:07 AM

    (Oh, if the US Democratic Party had not played games in 2016 and had selected Sanders…
    And they had a 2nd chance to do so in 2020.)

    You mean interfered with democracy?

    15
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    Mute ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 12:32 PM

    @Oh Mammy: Yep.

    The DNC tried to anoint Clinton, and did everything they could to obstruct Sanders.

    And lost support as a result.

    That loss of support – as well as russian interference on behalf of Trump, and FBI interference on behlaf og Trump – lost them the White House.

    3
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    Mute Michael Holland
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 12:43 PM

    Harris is atrocious. Worse that Biden..

    17
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    Mute John Flanagan
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 10:13 AM

    Sorry just one other thing came to mind. The way this country is going we could be adopting the same disregard for people no matter who or what they are as he does. Worrying for ireland too in so many ways

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    Mute Phillip Smyth
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 10:41 AM

    The democrat strategist got it wrong 2016 for nomination of Clinton they never thought Trump was going to win with H.C the amercian people did not like Clinton really and hence he was in basically a protest win, and did we had Joe a sick man he was never going to last.

    7
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    Mute ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 8:45 PM

    @Phillip Smyth: Clinton still won the popular vote.

    Trump scraped in by that Electoral College vote.

    A swing in a few 10s of thousands of votes would have given the electoral college to Clinton too.

    3 things went against her
    1) The way the DNC under Wasserman-Schultz tried to subvert democracy by obstructing the Sanders campaign upset many. And many of those either dtayed at home – so to speak – and some even voted Trump in protest
    2) Russian interference on behalf of Trump
    3) FBI interference on behalf of Trump

    If any of these three elements was missing then it is likely that Clinton would not have lost enough votes to cost her the Electoral College.
    But all three together were enough.

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    Mute ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere
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    Jul 23rd 2024, 1:25 PM

    The people of Ukraine have already made that decision. They want to be free of russian subjugation.

    The least we can do is to enure that a free people do not fall to a tyrant.

    Any cost we may bear is miniscule to that if russia is allowed to prevail.

    The EU want to make money.
    That is why they developed relations with russia in the 1st place. We were told that countries that trade with each other do not make war, and that developing more and closer trade relations with russia would ensure the future peace.

    That shows a complete lack of understanding of russia. of Putin, and of psychopaths and their ilk.

    russia has brought war to us again.

    It must not succeed in any of its aims.

    That is what will ensure the peace of Europe in the future.

    It was Putin who invaded Ukraine.

    And we must do everything to ensure the defeat of russia.

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    Mute Dave Grant
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    Jul 24th 2024, 9:15 AM

    Democracy at work?

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    Mute Sill Scoundrel
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    Jul 22nd 2024, 4:12 PM

    This is a long post but I would really like people to consider what the incoming Trump foreign policy would look like for people here. From an article by Trump’s last national security advisor (Robert C. O’Brien) , published four days ago-
    “Trump, for his part, has made clear that he would like to see a negotiated settlement to the war that ends the killing and preserves the security of Ukraine. Trump’s approach would be to continue to provide lethal aid to Ukraine, financed by European countries, while keeping the door open to diplomacy with Russia—and keeping Moscow off balance with a degree of unpredictability. He would also push NATO to rotate ground and air forces to Poland to augment its capabilities closer to Russia’s border and to make unmistakably clear that the alliance will defend all its territory from foreign aggression.

    Washington should make sure that its European allies understand that the continued American defense of Europe is contingent on Europe doing its part—including in Ukraine. If Europe wants to show that it is serious about defending Ukraine, it should admit the country to the European Union immediately, waiving the usual bureaucratic accession protocol. Such a move would send a strong message to Putin that the West will not cede Ukraine to Moscow. It would also give hope to the Ukrainian people that better days lie ahead.”
    I keep seeing this attitude form that camp. They don’t want the war to end, they just don’t want to contribute to it. The sanctions won’t end. Energy prices will continue to hurt industry here and the US will make a killing on energy and arms sales. EU countries will be expected to spend more tax money on weapons and start an arms race on our borders with the Russians. Does anyone who has been listening to Putin for the last few years think that increasing a NATO presence in the East and admitting Ukraine to the EU will be acceptable conditions of peace for him?
    If we want to have the ability to produce arms here, the sanctions have to end as they impact the supply of many materials necessary to production. NATO countries will be trapped into buying arms from the US at a price they can dictate. I heard Vance say that green regulations are causing de-industrialisation in Germany- that is a straight up lie, the sanctions are the problem and only the US can lift them. Is that the plan then, to use dollar hegemony, to impose conditions on us that destroy our economies while blaming our regulatory frameworks for the damage? Those regulatory frameworks are probably the last line of protection for workers here form being completely annihilated by a global race to the bottom. That’s a convenient narrative for them isn’t it? We could lift all our sanctions in the morning and as long as the US has its sanctions in place, we can not trade or have normal relations with Russia. Whoever wins in the US, the goal remains the same, maintain US hegemony and annihilate competitors.

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    Jul 22nd 2024, 9:46 PM

    @Sill Scoundrel: That sounds like you are an American that doesn’t understand that the EU and NATO are two quite different organisations.

    And neither of these gets to tell the other what to do.

    That also sounds like you are an American that doesn’t understand the role of NATO.

    NATO is a defense organisation. An organisation whose members agree to come to the aid of each other should one be attacked.

    Only one country has ever invoked that mutual defense – the US.
    No other NATO country has ever asked the US, or other NATO members for support due to an attack.

    You sound like an American that believes the US has been paying for Europe’s defense.
    That is not the case.
    The US wanted US bases in Europe so that the US could fight the Soviet Union on European soil, rather than US soil.
    Europe would pay for the defense of the US in many many ways.

    Now to get back to Trump’s plan to being “peace” to Ukraine.
    You mention negotiations.
    How would that work exactly?
    How much would Ukraine have to cede to russia to end russian aggression?
    And how is any of that compatible with Ukrainian security?

    Should russia get away with ANYTHING from its warrring, from its war criming, from its crimes against humanity, from all its atrocities, then it WILL be back from more.

    Russia MUST be defeated.
    And defeated utterly.
    So that it will not again bring war to Europe.

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    Mute Sill Scoundrel
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    Jul 23rd 2024, 8:49 AM

    @ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: You have read what you wanted to read. I stated clearly the Trump and his ilk have zero intentions of negotiating peace, they want to use this war to bankrupt the EU. Every citizen in the EU pays for US protection through the dollar. That’s how we pay, through lesser lifestyles and wages. We have all given (not just NATO), through our country’s taxes and the EU tax base to this war so stop pretending this isn’t both an EU issue and a NATO issue. The only reasons countries in the rest of the world accepted the dollar in the post-war pact was in exchange for the US in a military defense pact. Now they want to change the terms while using the dollar to screw over workers here? I would love to see all the world’s war criminals locked up, we’ll be putting US leaders in the dock for years to come if that’s the case. I’m talking realism and every serious military analyst I’ve read says the same thing, Ukraine haven’t a hope of reclaiming Donbas and Crimea and they couldn’t govern those regions if they did. The polls I’ve read say that most EU citizens and most citizens of Eastern Ukraine want a negotiated settlement. When Ukraine allows the parliament and opposition parties to sit and express their views, then we will have a better idea of what the people in Ukraine most affected by this war actually want. Without them having democratic representation we don’t know and I don’t trust their leadership for a second. The US has bad intentions for us and people better wake up. We need peace accords and firearms and treaties with Russia and we cannot trust the US or Putin for a second.

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    Jul 23rd 2024, 9:55 AM

    @ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: I think you should remember that we have democratic representation in the EU and berating the people who advocate a negotiated peace is not wise. Look at the EDFR polling. The last one shows only 10% of EU citizens think Ukraine can win this war, 37% believe it will end in a negotiated settlement and 20% believe Russia will win. 41% think the EU should push Ukraine to a peace deal with Russia compared to 31% who would continue supporting Ukraine to take back territory. There are some mad stats in there. 40% of Russians see the Ukrainians as a threat. You are in what they call “the justice camp”, There are 22% in the Justice camp and 35% in the peace camp. There is clear plurality who would support peace talks and all this angered banging of war drums about the crimes committed by Putin seems somewhat inauthentic given the nature of war crimes committed by many of our so-called allies over the years.

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    Jul 23rd 2024, 10:32 AM

    @Sill Scoundrel: The EU and NATO are still two different institutions.

    Do you think Canada – a NATO member – can tell the EU who to admit?
    Do you think Ireland – an EU member – can tell NATO who to admit?

    NATO members cannot tell the EU what to do, and the EU cannot tell NATO what to do.

    These things are not hard to understand.
    Except for right-wingers and Americans, I find.

    The populations of the Donbass and Crimea voted to be free of russia, as did all other regions of Ukraine.
    The popultion of the Donbass that claimed russian heritage were in a MINORITY.
    And no minority gets to tell the rest what to do.

    In any event, the supposed separatist movement in the Donbass was a russian DSB operation, not an organic movement of the people of the region.

    If russia is allowed to win anything from its illegal warring, from its war crimes and crimes against humanity, then we all lose.

    A tyrant must never be allow to enslave a free people.

    It is you that needs to wake up.

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    Jul 23rd 2024, 11:26 AM

    @ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: I think you are just ignoring what I am actually saying and trotting out jingoisms. Nothing I have said in anyway contradicts the fact that the EU and NATO are different institutions. The quote I was analysing shows that the Americans want to stop supplying arms and make the EU pay for it, not NATO. They want the EU to pay for it with them not contributing while they break industry here. The last poll printed in Ukrainska Pravda shows a third of Ukrainians support territorial concessions for peace compared to 55% opposed and that figure is growing. There are a ton of other studies showing a generational divide. Most adults under 25 want a peace settlement, with adults over 60 (the ones who won’t be fighting) overwhelmingly supporting a no surrender approach. Adults under forty are split 50/50. People who have been directly affected by the war are more likely to support concessions. Only 1/3 of military servicemen think the war can be won. Those polls are across the country and have East, West, South and North breakdowns. The most recent poll from Carnegie shows 43% of respondents from across the country in favor of negotiations. We will have to fund that war now and if we don’t make up the US shortfall, Ukraine will loose and they will have no tract for negotiation. We will have to buy arms from the US to give Ukraine. So I think we should make it a clear condition that Ukraine reinstitute all of democratic institutions and reinstitute democratic freedoms of press before they get any more EU tax money (Yes EU tax money, not NATO funds). You can call me names all day, I don’t care.

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    Jul 23rd 2024, 11:58 AM

    @Sill Scoundrel: There is no jingoism in any of my comments. But perhaps you don’t understand the term.

    And you quoted Trump’s policy as ‘Europe … admitting Ukraine to the EU…’

    That shows such a complete lack of understanding that only Americans, or right-wingers seem capable of.

    Let’s just deal with that, or we’ll end up with a comment that could rival War and Peace for size.

    For a start, Europe and the EU are NOT the same. Europe does not admit any country to the EU.
    And – as I though I had made clear earlier – the US does not get to decide who the EU admits.
    Just as the EU – or any member country – does not get to tell the US to admit Mexico (or Puerto Rico) as a member.

    And it is the US that has been blocking Ukrainian membership of the one organisation that would guarantee its security – NATO.
    The one organisation specifically designed to do so.

    The EU is a TRADING block.

    NATO is a DEFENSE alliance.

    There are no more restriction on democratic institutions in Ukraine that there would be in any other nation whose survival was at stake.

    Anyone who said otherwise is merely spreading russian propaganda.

    Do you think the UK allowed Nazi propaganda during WWII?
    Why do you think Ukraine should allow russian propaganda?

    Dom you think that the UK allowed Nazis and their sympathisers free reign during WWII.
    Why do you think any country would do so?

    The only restrictions Ukraine has placed on what might be called democratic freedoms are on those political parties funded by russia that want Ukraine to become subjects of russia again.
    The only restrictions Ukraine has placed on the press are on russian propaganda outlets.

    And whatever it takes, whatever it costs, a tyrant must never be allowed to subjugate a free people.

    (Oh, and if there is one thing that has become very clear over the past number of years it’s that polls are of little use, and American polls are worthless.)

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    Jul 23rd 2024, 12:10 PM

    @Sill Scoundrel: In summary- Trump et al are saying they support a peace deal while pushing for NATO countries and the EU to do things that will not be acceptable to Russia in a peace deal. Do you see what I’m saying? They don’t want peace, they will use this war to their own agenda which is heavily linked to the US twin deficit. We need to be cognisant of that, whether you support a negotiated settlement or not. Supporting a negotiated settlement is mainstream opinion in the EU. The problem is agreeing on a strategy.

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    Jul 23rd 2024, 12:27 PM

    @ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: Polls are of no use in close elections but they are very useful in measuring public sentiment and many an election has been won based on a shrewd reading of polls. They banned all their opposition and most of them weren’t pro-Russian by any stretch of the imagination. Many of them were part of the Maiden revolt. There is no free press in Ukraine, there are only state media outlets and they are literally full of insanely optimistic propaganda that very few people are reading or watching anymore. Reinstate parliament and freedom of press or it’s not a democracy.

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    Jul 23rd 2024, 12:31 PM

    @Sill Scoundrel: Russia does not get to decide.

    Do you see what I am saying?

    If russia gets to decide anything then it will have won.

    Russia does not want peace.
    It wants to reconstitute its empire in Europe and beyond.

    The only strategy that will work it to ensure the defeat of russia.

    For if it gains ANYTHING from its illegal aggression, then it will see that as a win, and will be back for more.

    The only negotiation with russia should be its surrender.

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    Jul 23rd 2024, 12:48 PM

    @ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: Ok, I think I see the misunderstanding, you think I’m saying that the US or NATO can make the EU take Ukraine, that is not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying that the US will try and exert pressure to make that happen because it puts a peace deal out of reach. They don’t want peace and anyone who thinks they do has been had. That is the essential trust of my argument. “And whatever it takes, whatever it costs, a tyrant must never be allowed to subjugate a free people.” That’s easy for you to say, the cost to us will be purely economic, ye, many people will loose their jobs and it will be disastrous for all of the EU and the UK and young people will pay the biggest price but the biggest price of all is being paid by the young in Ukraine and they don’t even have democratic representation. Now I have been respectful, I don’t think you are taking in what I am saying so I will say good luck to you and have a good day!

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    Jul 23rd 2024, 1:31 PM

    @Sill Scoundrel:

    The Ukrainians have already made that decision. They want to be free of russian subjugation.

    The least we can do is to enure that a free people do not fall to a tyrant.

    Any cost we may bear is miniscule to that if russia is allowed to prevail.

    The EU want to make money.
    That is why they developed relations with russia in the 1st place. We were told that countries that trade with each other do not make war, and that developing more and closer trade relations with russia would ensure the future peace.

    That shows a complete lack of understanding of russia. of Putin, and of psychopaths and their ilk.

    russia has brought war to us again.

    It must not succeed in any of its aims.

    That is what will ensure the peace of Europe in the future.

    It was Putin who invaded Ukraine.

    And we must do everything to ensure the defeat of russia.

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    Jul 23rd 2024, 4:28 PM

    @ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: What I hear is someone deciding for the people in Ukraine that no matter what, they cannot negotiate a settlement, not even if most of them want it. This is my position, we should continue to supply the Ukrainians with arms and make up the US shortfall under the condition that Ukraine restore their democratic institutions and freedoms. Have you read the full human rights reports on war-crimes in Ukraine? According the UN reports, Ukraine and Russia are guilty of war crimes, and the reports conclude that leadership on both sides of the war will have to stand in the dock. Or are they far-right too? Russian abuse is more systemic but Ukrainians will have to answer too. Not my opinion, that’s what the reports say. Let people in Ukraine have their press and democratic representation back.

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