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The Daily PollTHE GOVERMENT PLANS to reform the triple lock, the the mechanism that governs the deployment of troops overseas.
The “triple lock” system dictates that peacekeeping missions overseas for more than 12 Irish troops, can only be approved with a resolution from the United Nations, the approval of Government and a vote in the Dáil.
Supporters claim it places a lock on Irish neutrality by giving deployments a high bar. Opponents claim it gives the UN Security Council an effective veto on deployments.
What do you think: Should we scrap the Triple Lock for deploying troops?
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Absolutely remove it as it gives rogue states like Russia a veto over our sovereign parliament, plus has zero to do with neutrality
@Johnny Wilson: you believe russia is a rogue state??? Wow you do listen carefully to the news I see
@Darran Macken: Russia is a dictatorship in case you’ve not noticed and prone to locking up and murdering dissidents, falsifying elections and invading sovereign countries.
@John G: I think you mean America…
@John G: and you think Russia is the only country that does that!
@Darran Macken: you must be a paid Russia lover.
@robbie scanlon: maybe it too certainly I’m not defending USA’s appalling record or its incumbent president
@John: no certainly not but somehow you espoused Russia as ‘normal’ when it’s clearly not. USA’s is heading this way.
@robbie scanlon: either way, both have UN Veto, and can block deployment of peacekeepers
@Johnny Wilson: legislation is for general assembly not UN council
@robbie scanlon: no Robbie. He means Russia.
You want to side with a dictator? That’s your choice. How are you so gullible?
@John G: Did you read all of that in the MSM?
@John G: ah stop, it’s not even listed as a rogue state by the us or the un, russia is only rogue to you because you’ve been made believe that delusion, there are only two real rogue state by definition and that’s isreal and Pakistan, visit russia some time you might be surprised, if you take them blinkers off.
@Fergus O’Donnell: I’m not gullible. I’m a realist and I know a true tyrant when I see one
@Johnny Wilson: and China and the US and France and the UK. All permanent members are corrupt govts.
Yes. I have no idea why our deployment of troops depends on the foreign policies of Russia, China and the U.S.
@Me Me: why? Because we cannot deploy, supply or back up our forces abroad without the United Nations support. And they are permanent members of the united nations.
@Ger Whelan: Do you know why they are they among the permanent members of the UN security council?
@Me Me: actually no, I don’t. Russia in particular has no right to be on UNSC. The previous holder of that seat was the USSR which was dissolved into 15 Republics. Russia had no automatic right to it. Ukraine would have been as entitled to it as any.
@Ger Whelan: what back up does the UN provide? IMO UN has become a useless, toothless org, just look at Palestine, nobody pays a blind bit of difference to UN mandates
@John Moylan: They were the major victorious countries in WW2. That’s why!
@Me Me: Frans and the UK as well. I believe it was the UK that prevented UN peacekeepers up north.
@Me Me: yup. Now they each take turns to abuse their power. The VETO should be able to be overruled by the general assembly
We should also learn to take care of ourselves at some stage for once, ireland first needs to be hammered home the constant push for everything else outside of this nation becomes repelling when we have substandard housing, education, medical if you can access it, roads, footpaths, CRIME, the list is endless and every day we are asked what more can we do for others, again it becomes annoying.
@Darran Macken: Blaming others for your failures in life or problems is one of the requirements to be a right-winger.
@Darran Macken: Substandard crime?? Our crime is as good as, if not better than, any crime in the world!
@Jack Hayes: It’s like water naturally flows downstream, humans naturally want to better themselves and Ireland is heaven compared to the left wing failed states.
@Me Me: you never learned to read a paragraph I see, Crime was a continuous statement not initial, and put your real name up, people who hide usually have noting good to say.
@Darran Macken: Oh fk off.
Yes, we are part of the EU and should be willing to help our fellow Europeans in the face of aggression.
@AnthonyK: we need a proper army first to do that we have very limited numbers and resources. Pay proper wages, invest in defence and equipment and get the numbers up a bit before we go supporting war mongering countries and end up getting ourselves in trouble we can’t get out of
@John: the Apple windfall could be put to good use in that area
@Gerry Ryan: I’ve seen about a couple of hundred ideas for that apple money already…..I’m sure there are thousands more.No matter what they do with it people will whinge.
@AnthonyK: being European is not the same as being in the EU.
@AnthonyK: Great but before we go off signing up to stuff maybe the politicians getting giddy about this could first address the issues within the DF currently, like the poor pay and conditions. Because nobody whos asking for this triple lock removed seem to understand how hard it is currently to keep people in our DF and now we want to put them under more pressure……boggles the mind
@Gerry Ryan: i would rather the apple dividend be used to give e children better healthecare, including teeth.
@AnthonyK: is that why we pay VRT on European cars that are imported just like none of our fellow Europeans
@Gerry Ryan: sure it’s not like we need a proper health-care system or a way to actually house the people of Ireland! Why not spend it on military equipment and guns like a good little corporate slave!!
It’s funny how in 2013 Micheál Martin described the triple lock as “core to our neutrality” and that the argument of unsavoury countries having a veto over our actions was a core Fine Gael effort to erode neutrality.
I’m not sure when exactly was the moment where Micheál sold his soul and became identical to FG in every way but he’s said it himself, removing the triple lock would be the end of Irish neutrality.
@Rochelle Hart: world is different place now when compared to the 12 years ago. Also triple lock has absolutely nothing to do with our Irish version of neutrality.
Not really sure why the UN has a say in where one of the smallest and most underesourced armies in the world are deployed to?
@The Firestarter: the UN has always paid us for peace- keeping and directed where to deploy. This frees the governments hands so in future we could be asked by the EU…or even NATO not that we’re a member.
If the triple lock goes, who decides where to send the troops.
@Thomas O’Brien: The government and the Dáil.
@Thomas O’Brien: Those who lobby TDs best
@Shane O Neill: Not the EU? Or is their a case where they can without a UN mandate?
@Shane O Neill:
So it’s just been reduced to a double lock instead.
@Thomas O’Brien: why not 75% of dail members agree ? Also ensure back up and then we the people can see who in the dail agreed to send our troops to danger zones.\no way would the defence forces be deployed by the armchair generals in the dail agree that it be done in their name.
@Michael James Brennan: triple lock should be president as commander in chief according to our constitution
No. anyone who says yes please inform me how you think Ireland will deploy, Supply and back up our peacekeepers?
@Ger Whelan: How do you think other countrys do it. Put your gear in a container, ring your man down the road with a lorry and get him to drive it up to the docks and onto a ship. Troops can get on a plane, plenty leave knock, shannon, cork and dublin every day, if you can fill a plane yourself its cheaper to rent. Thats ehat other countrys do.
@Ger Whelan: deploying troops to UN peacekeeping missions has nothing to do with the triple lock. We can still deploy and get paid on foot of a UN resolution. What we cannot do is deploy in the absence of a UN resolution. This does need to change so that we can deploy even if one UN member does not support the deployment. Maybe the USA might object to a peace keeping force in Gaza or the Russians to a peace keeping force in Ukraine and, as things stand, we could not deploy even if Ukraine or Gaza requested peace keepers. This is not a freedom but a restriction on Neutrality.
@Ger Whelan: Who, deploys, supplies and backs them up now, under NATO pfp missions Ireland deployed to Kosovo, Bosnia and Afghan and had no issues with deployment, supplies and had EU / PFP countries backing them up
@Niall O’Cofaigh: yes I’m fully aware of all of what you just say. If there is no UN resolution for Ireland to deploy troops how does Ireland get its peacekeeping troops to Ukraine or Gaza if requested by either country?. Should we actually manage to get there who will back up Irish troops should they come under fire? It won’t be the UN. Without the UN support Ireland cannot deploy and protect our peacekeepers. That is a simple fact.
@Ger Whelan: don’t mind them Ger,lots of lefty loonies on this who drink soya milk and fancy coffee who wouldn’t fight for their own freedom during covid ,never mind for someone else’s freedom .
@Brian Guilfoyle: the issue is numbers. Small non UN mandated missions are restricted to no more than 12 personell. What if its a mission to rescue stranded citizens and we need 20, or 30 bodies to guarantee success but can only deploy 12?
The idea behind a neutral country like Ireland operating as peace keepers under the banner of the UN, is that as a neutral country, Ireland isn’t invested in any conflict zone where they are deployed, and can be viewed as imparcial by all sides in any given conflict zone.
The argument that Russia, currently can veto any potential deployment of Irish troops, thereby inhibiting their ability to respond rapidly to an alleged threat to Europe by Russia, is frankly delusional thinking, not the fact that Russia can like any permanent member veto it, but that Ireland is some kind of military force to be reckoned with, that Russia is going to veto Irish troop deployments to prevent them getting in the fight!
They are not meant to be in the fight because we are a neutral country.
Michael Martin and his cronies are the embodiment of deception, in that they want to run with the fox and lie with the hounds in EU military terms and act like Ireland is some kind of military power by association.
If Russia decided to launch an actual attack against Europe, then we are all fecked, if they hadn’t fought in Ukraine up to now without escalation to their full military might, we would all be fecked.
Realistically, what Russia wants to do with Europe is trade, Ukraine has been utilised to inhibit that ability to trade, cutting off cheap oil and gas to Europe in an attempt to disadvantage Russia and to the advantage of US corporate entities.
Since the Russia invasion of Ukraine, and the resulting prolonged conflict, delusional commentators have bought into the propaganda that US financial and proxy military support for Ukraine was all about Ukrainian freedom and Ukraine standing up to Russia, when it is and always has been about gaining control of Ukrainian resources and strategic positions along the Russian border by the USA and its business partners, with the EU/NATO lap dogs doing their bidding to further that agenda.
The EU has literally sabotaged its own economy and given up cheap energy in the form of gas and oil from Russia for absolutely nothing in return fromvthe USA.
Now Ursula von der Leyen and the EU leadership are scrambling to try and get inclusion in the impending peace deal in Ukraine, in the hopes of getting some Ukrainian resource crumbs that might inadvertently fall off the table…
@Dvsespaña: proxy war that Boris Johnston admitted too
@H Woo: No it isn’t. The US, and NATO, already have extensively practiced and planned supply chains for deployment to and around europe that do not include Ireland. A few planeloads of troops passing through Shannon wouldn’t make any difference to a large scale deployment.
Does anyone else get the impression that the cops are doing a Sophie Toscan Du Plantier on poor little Kyran’s case. The investigation stinks of incompetence and cover up.
@Brieda Ní Cheese Easy Singles Drag Queen: no
@Brieda Ní Cheese Easy Singles Drag Queen: no
@Brieda Ní Cheese Easy Singles Drag Queen: Also a no from me.
The triple lock should have been repealed a long time ago. No serious country in the world hands over its defense decisions to foreign powers, especially not to authoritarian regimes that routinely veto military action for their own strategic gain. Yet under the triple lock, if Ireland wanted to contribute to an international security mission, say in Ukraine or to defend European waters, it would be blocked if Moscow or Beijing decide it doesn’t suit their interests. Why should the Kremlin or the Chinese Communist Party have a say in Irish military affairs? If the triple lock is scrapped, we then need to join NATO as soon as possible. Ireland already benefits from NATO’s protection without contributing. That’s called freeloading. We are a Western country, it’s time to start acting like it.
Not knocking the Irish Defence Forces for the sake of knocking them but really we dont have a huge army and our ability to defend Ireland is not only questionable but unlikely without help… where is it everyone who said no thinks we should be deploying the Irish Army triple lock or not… would we just do a journal poll and send them off?
In my opinion it should be renegotiated as talk is that the EU and NATO want to get involved in the decision making and deployment so if that happens then it may very well be that Ireland can kiss its neutrality goodbye
@Andy Preneur: Kiss it goodbye and good riddance.
The Focus needs to be on upgrading the defence forces to a capable level before talk of a triple lock. If we had to deploy 100s of troops we do not even have the capacity to transport and properly equip them
No other sovereign country allows for the machinations of an external body to put a brake on how it manages it’s own security interests or deploys it’s forces.
The triple lock is the complete abdication of primary responsibility of the sovereign state, namely the defence of the nation and it’s people.
@Adrian Connor: It’s not an external body. We are members of the UN.
@Ian: That makes no difference. The point is sovereignty on state security and defence. Ireland legally requires a UN mandate to deploy it’s forces. No other state in the world has this stricture on the deployment of it’s forces. It’s a ludicrous position for any country to be in.
I heard someone talking about this yesterday. There would still be a triple lock but they want to remove the UN Security Council from it & just have it as a UN resolution. It would still have to go through the UN, the Government & the Dáil.
I don’t know what a triple lock is
Scrap it and bring in 2 year compulsory army or navy service.
@Dan Murphy: and a proper civil defence force with real kit.
@Brieda Ní Cheese Easy Singles Drag Queen: Is the FCA still going?
@Dan Murphy: yeah and we’ll get them all to wear brown shirts. Smh
Has anyone asked if the current crop of DF members wages and conditions will be improved before we take away these triple locks?. Or do the call of duty and Russia are boogeyman mob on here pontifying about joining NATO and adding billions to the national debt to appease the arms dealers and egos of the politicians not get that we have a DF currently in a shambles to deliver what it is due to so many leaving. Maybe before you sign the horse up the the grand national, you maybe check if it can actually run and jump the fences and the jockey on it knows what its doing……cos lets be honest kids if we use the NCH as an example, the likelihood of having a DF ready for NATO is likely years away and billions wasted going how this country does things
@Patrick Newell: National Concert Hall?
Yes. You’ve done this one before.
Talk about putting a bigger target on our backs by doing that!!! Irish peacekeeping missions will therefore become highly politicised/polarising if there isn’t consensus at the Security Council. Therefore it’s another step from neutrality so it’s a no for me.
FFG want Ireland in NATO so your kids go to war for American corporations to colonise and plunder other countries wealth like in Ukraine and Iraq wonder why, is the weapons manufacturers lobby to hard to resist
Sure, wasn’t Senator Martin Conway triple-locked? What’s the issue?
I think it should be at the sole discretion of Michael D. I think he’s a closet Hawk and will be deploying troops left and right, it’s about time we started expanding our borders and start a few colonies.
Do we have more than 12 troops? Is this point not moot?
No. Government in Irl cannot be trusted over this issue/
No to the EU and FFG undermining our neutrality-Brussels is growing impatient over it as we heard recently
NO TO Ireland in NATO
Nope. The govt cannot be trusted. Many many examples of them not standing up for Irish interests. Maybe move from security council to general assembly. The govt and dail unfortunately is the same thing thanks to the whip system.
have your say