We need your help now
Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.
You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.
If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.
Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
By continuing, you are indicating that you accept our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.
PLANS FOR A large new student accommodation facility near the centre of Limerick city have been blocked because of its negative impact on the historical and architectural character of the area, which includes the site of a former Magdalene laundry.
An Bord Pleanála has reversed a decision by Limerick City and County Council which approved planning permission for a building to provide 122-student beds in a new development close to the Limerick School of Art & Design campus on Clare Street in Limerick.
The board upheld an appeal against the Council’s ruling by a group of local residents who expressed concern about a range of issues including the height of the proposed development as well as its impact on the heritage and historical landscape of the area.
The college, which is part of the Technological University of the Shannon, is the site of the former Good Shepherd convent whose nuns operated the adjacent former Magdalene laundry.
Opponents claimed the student accommodation facility would impact on the view of the chimney of the former laundry as well as the dome of the former convent chapel which are protected structures.
However, they also acknowledged that the neighbourhood had many run-down vacant properties which they argued could be used to provide student accommodation.
The site, on the corner of New Road/Pennywell Road and Old Clare Street, is currently occupied by a bathroom showroom, memorial engravers, store sheds and a derelict house.
The proposed development was for the demolition of the existing buildings and the construction of four new apartment blocks ranging in height from three to seven storeys to provide 122 student bed spaces in 22 apartments.
The planning application by A & R Supplies (Limerick) Ltd, who operates the bathroom showroom, subsequently revised the plans to 19 apartments but retained the proposed number of bed spaces at 122.
Limerick City and County Council had found that the proposed development was acceptable as it provided for the redevelopment of a brownfield site for much-needed student accommodation.
Outlining its reason for refusing planning permission, however, An Bord Pleanála said it had regard for the site’s location immediately adjacent to the architectural conservation area relating to the TUS Limerick School of Art & Design with buildings and structures identified as of local importance to the urban character of Limerick city.
Given the bulk and scale of the proposed student accommodation facility, the board said it believed it “failed to deliver the optimum quality design solution that such a location warranted.”
It claimed the development would detract from the adjacent architectural conservation area and would constitute a “visually discordant feature” that would be detrimental to the distinctive architectural and historic character of the area.
A report by a planning inspector with An Bord Pleanála noted that a Limerick Civic Trust Plaque positioned on the corner of Limerick School of Art & Design also highlighted how the location was a place of public execution in the 16th and 17th centuries called ‘Farrancroghy’.
The inspector also claimed the excessive height and density of the plans did not sufficiently respect the existing important local landmark that is the former Good Shepherd convent.
She concluded the site was not appropriate for allowing a taller building height.
The inspector claimed the developer had also failed to demonstrate that the development would not lead to an overconcentration of student housing in the area.
She said the proposed apartment blocks were also likely to result in an increase in on-street parking and traffic congestion on adjoining roads.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
Time for a vote on 8th amendment again. It is incompatible with real life.
Why should somebody be forced to carry a baby to full term knowing full well that the baby will not survive birth / survive long outside the womb ..surely this is what incompatible with life really is.
PS my own mother had 3 babies that did not survive being born and it had an effect on her.
I have to say, I do agree in a way. The only issue I have is the effects on a woman who decides to have a termination because she has been told by doctors her baby is incompatible with life. It’s not going to just make everything easier because the baby doesnt exist anymore. As a woman myself, I think I would have this lingering thought of ‘what if they were wrong’. It has happened. I don’t know what I would be haunted with more; the memory of seeing my child die, or the thought that maybe if I made a different decision it may have lived. I know this doesnt offer anything to the debate. Just more a thought.
Absolutely right and for me this is a straightforward area where abortion could be used to improve the welfare of a mother. After all why should women like your mother, god bless her have to carry a still born child full term?
As long as there is absolutely no doubt in the minds of a number of doctors then yes a baby that is due to be born that will only last a few days should be aborted if the mother so wishes.
As long as we do not get ourselves into a position where we do what Canada do and allow women to abort babies almost up to full term. I would even be content with conceding that a foetus of 1-6 weeks is acceptable vs what they do!!
Exactly. That’s a hard position to reach though. I think people seem to thibk that terminations are just easy, like they are not as traumatic as someone’s baby dying. They are not like getting a tooth pulled. It can be mentally scarring as much as anything else. I am not a pro life and person, but I think people have taken the stance that termination is just the best option. It’s can be hugely psychologically scarring.
I don’t want my comments to be construes as saying terminations are a bad idea in certain citations. They can be. I just think that people are on this termination bandwagon without realising how big a deal they are and how emotionally traumatic it can be. A woman makes a connection to their baby whether it’s 10 weeks in or at the end of their pregnancy.
That’s why the abortion should happen in Ireland and the women should get proper support vs having to go to England in secret and travel back the next day to carry on with their lives hoping no one finds out.
Spiderman, you haven’t got your facts straight. 90% of abortions in Canada occur before 12 weeks when there is absolutely no chance of sentience in the embryo/foetus. Only 0.4% occur after 20 weeks and these are almost always in the cases of Fatal Foetal Abnormality (most of these cases are only diagnosed after 20 weeks) and risk to the woman’s health or life.
Like most countries where abortion is legal, elective abortion is not allowed after 24 weeks, it is only allowed in very exceptional cases at that stage.
Most women who do not want to be pregnant will have an abortion as quickly as possible which is far easier to do when its legal, our laws cause women to have later term abortions in the UK because they need time to raise the travel money etc.
Canada considers abortion a matter for healthcare not the law. The figures are very similar in other countries where abortion is legal.
http://www.arcc-cdac.ca/postionpapers/22-Late-term-Abortions.PDF
Only 0.4% and that makes it somewhat alright. Easy to hide behind statistics Kelly.
Well done to these brave families, I love their work on Facebook, they’ve made me and many others realise that their babies were valuable and not incompatible with life – what a horrible term. Why are people being nasty about this? Unreal.
Hi Amy, maybe look at the lovely videos on http://www.everylifecounts.ie to see the great joy and healing these families who carried to term received from time with baby.
Good for them, but the point is that it is not up to anybody to make that choice on the part of parents.
Incompatible with logic.
Ret@rded cretins!
Why can’t the money they are spending on this trip be given to a children’s charity like Childline? They only seem to care about children not even born yet.
Exactly. So obsessed with the unborn, and never hear again for them when babies are born without a brain, born addicted to drugs to junkies on the street, born to a rape victim who can’t look at the child she was forced to give birth to all because of opinionated arrogant religious crazies that want to force their opinions and ideals on others. In a direct sense of the term, I am pro life, of course I am, everyone is. I am pro life as in pro quality of life for everyone who is born into this world. But sometimes, abortion is needed for this to happen.
Life has to mean more than a heartbeat…if my brain activitys gone my advance directive says do not resuscitate, why im ‘alive’ right? Technically..but im not aware, im not self coincious, i cant even dream..my lifes over.
Not always that simple sure but you hear cases of infants born with no eyes or limbs..what quality of life is thst? Tha ought b the key phrase. Why should parents not have the option to avoid a life of hell for them and a life of zero quality for their child? Early, before 14 weeks? Lifes not the key threshold we should argue personhood n quality of life are
Apart from your loose grasp of English you’re spot on. Pro-life will never distinguish between living and just being alive. They don’t care who suffers.
My english is fine, its my typing thats shit
It seems absurd to me that these people are lobbying to have a clinical definition redefined based on an emotional experience. To put this in context if I were to lobby the airline industry and ask that “crash landings” be redefined as “gravity defying landings” as many people have survived them and I have had a personal experience of one, I’d be laughed at. The only reason that doesn’t happen with these people is that this is such an emotive issue.
@ Ryan – children born with no eyes or limbs.. Why should parents not have the right to avoid a life of hell for them? (By aborting them)
Blind people are all miserable? People missing limbs cant live happy lives? Some people might find that pretty offensive. Like blind people and amputees. They may not see themselves as being less “worthy” or “incompatible with life” such that they should have just been aborted.
Your point here seems less about FFA and more about eugenics by way of selective abortions.
“Incompatible with life” – i think the first step must be to agree on a precise definition of this. It seems that currently different people have different interpretations of what it means, then how can we have a proper discussion on it in the first place.
So they get to choose what they want to do when faced with an awful choice but nobody else does. It’s NOT acceptable under any circumstances.
I would have thought that describing a child who has failed to form some of its major organs who will die as a result of having the umbilical cord cut would be “incompatible with life”, this to me seems to be a statement of fact rather than a slur.
These are not mere “disabilities”, this is the equivalent of a person who is completely reliant upon life support intervention having the machines switched off.
It will be interesting to hear their argument. Because I can see a few holes in it already, I would like to know how they propose to patch over them.
Zero compassion from Shanti. These people loved their children, and they want discrimination to end.
I do not doubt that they loved their babies, are you getting to insinuate that someone who went for a termination in these circumstances doesn’t??
And yet you attack me for what you have decided is “a lack of compassion”.. No one is telling these women they had to abort. And no one on the pro choice side would support that. We would like the option to be there for those who feel it’s the best option *for them*, it’s not a one size fits all sort of a situation. For some people carrying a foetus that cannot survive birth is an extremely traumatic experience, where’s your or this groups compassion for them?
These people are very annoying
That’s masterly understatement, Gis!
I’m disgusted that they describe the word ret@rd and the PHRASE incompatible with life as being as bad as each other.
What planet do these people live on?
well said Brian but we need abortion for fatal foetal abnormalities..it should be required of Ireland as a modern EU state to provide it. Itd make you sick to thick it isnt.
The Irish Taliban
Pro-birth, not pro-life
Now there is an idea, why not send a delegation to have the “pro-life” phrase removed?
i.e: “Pro Life group believes life is in black and white and there are no such things as grey areas.”
Suggested replacement: “One of God’s little tests”
What phrase do they want to use instead of “incompatible with life”? No mention of their suggestion in the article.
They don’t want it replaced, they want it removed so that people have no choice.
In their eyes the parents family etc even the unformed, malformed going to die or have an extremly unpleasent short life fetus is not important as long as they make it so it’s carried to term (dead or “alive”) and to hell with anyone else.
Psychopaths
Who are they?
And who is funding this little lobbying trip?
Denis O’Brien.
Seán is that really true?
@meninblackhoods – the group is called Every Life Counts… you can find them on facebook and youtube :)
Didn’t know “cretin” was considered offensive.
The terms “cretin” and “moron” were both originally technical terms referring to certain levels of intelligence and gradually became notorious to the public so were dropped by psychiatrists.
Fair play to them, they’re speaking the truth.
We need to remove every single reference to abortion from our constitution. It’s a matter that should be dealt with by regular legislation, the constitution is too inflexible for a subject with so many variables.
Gobsheens,right wing catholic nazis,most of them never had a ride in their life,
There they go again – hijacking the very language of our medical professionals. Double plus ungood!
For instance, if they are pro life, is everyone else anti life?
Good luck to them, nice to see a group stand up for what they believe in.
Lets go ailbhe……
Delighted to see this step. The term “incompatible with life” is not only offensive, but inaccurate.
http://necir.org/2014/12/18/physician-society-urges-better-understanding-of-new-prenatal-tests/
If the foetus cannot survive the severance of the umbilical cord, Be that because there’s no brain, no lungs, no kidneys, etc.. What do you think they should call it then?
“incompatible with life” is perhaps less offensive than “as good as dead”, would you not agree?
Just as the elderly, infirm, handicapped, very young cannot survive the withdrawal of sustainence. Pretty self defeating argument.
Only when you’re arguing with a straw man.
Until the umbilical cord is cut the foetus is *contingent*, not merely reliant, upon the woman it resides within. If she dies, so does the foetus unless it has already become viable.
To compare this to a born person in any way shape or form is extremely disingenuous, because once born, ANYONE can care for that person. Be that hospital staff, care staff, or other members of society. They are not entirely dependent upon being *inside* someone else. I mean, what happens when an 11 week foetus is “born”? Could it be cared for by anyone else? No. Because it would die immediately upon severance of the umbilical cord.
In these cases, severance of the umbilical cord means certain death, even when the foetus has come to full term. The only thing keeping the foetus alive is the transference of nutrients and blood via the placenta, and the removal of waste via the same route. The foetus will never be capable of doing any of this for itself. It may be missing the brain to control all the processes. It’s heart may not be capable of sustaining a human, it might not have lungs, maybe it has no kidneys for waste removal. Some of its organs may have developed outside of its body. There are sadly quite a number of things that can and do go wrong, and they mean certain death upon birth.
This is a far cry from someone being dependent upon others for just their care.
My main problem with the phrase is that it has enough wriggle room to be extended to abortion on the grounds of handicap, I would suspect that this is intentional btw.
Use precise geolocation data. Actively scan device characteristics for identification. Store and/or access information on a device. Personalised advertising and content, advertising and content measurement, audience research and services development.
These cookies are necessary for the website to function and cannot be switched off in our systems. They are usually only set in response to actions made by you which amount to a request for services, such as setting your privacy preferences, logging in or filling in forms. You can set your browser to block or alert you about these cookies, but some parts of the site will not then work.
These cookies may be set through our site by our advertising partners. They may be used by those companies to build a profile of your interests and show you relevant adverts on other sites. They do not store directly personal information, but are based on uniquely identifying your browser and internet device. If you do not allow these cookies, you will experience less targeted advertising.
These cookies enable the website to provide enhanced functionality and personalisation. They may be set by us or by third party providers whose services we have added to our pages. If you do not allow these cookies then these services may not function properly.
These cookies allow us to count visits and traffic sources so we can measure and improve the performance of our site. They help us to know which pages are the most and least popular and see how visitors move around the site. All information these cookies collect is aggregated and therefore anonymous. If you do not allow these cookies we will not be able to monitor our performance.
Cookies, device or similar online identifiers (e.g. login-based identifiers, randomly assigned identifiers, network based identifiers) together with other information (e.g. browser type and information, language, screen size, supported technologies etc.) can be stored or read on your device to recognise it each time it connects to an app or to a website, for one or several of the purposes presented here.
Advertising presented to you on this service can be based on limited data, such as the website or app you are using, your non-precise location, your device type or which content you are (or have been) interacting with (for example, to limit the number of times an ad is presented to you).
Information about your activity on this service (such as forms you submit, content you look at) can be stored and combined with other information about you (for example, information from your previous activity on this service and other websites or apps) or similar users. This is then used to build or improve a profile about you (that might include possible interests and personal aspects). Your profile can be used (also later) to present advertising that appears more relevant based on your possible interests by this and other entities.
Advertising presented to you on this service can be based on your advertising profiles, which can reflect your activity on this service or other websites or apps (like the forms you submit, content you look at), possible interests and personal aspects.
Information about your activity on this service (for instance, forms you submit, non-advertising content you look at) can be stored and combined with other information about you (such as your previous activity on this service or other websites or apps) or similar users. This is then used to build or improve a profile about you (which might for example include possible interests and personal aspects). Your profile can be used (also later) to present content that appears more relevant based on your possible interests, such as by adapting the order in which content is shown to you, so that it is even easier for you to find content that matches your interests.
Content presented to you on this service can be based on your content personalisation profiles, which can reflect your activity on this or other services (for instance, the forms you submit, content you look at), possible interests and personal aspects. This can for example be used to adapt the order in which content is shown to you, so that it is even easier for you to find (non-advertising) content that matches your interests.
Information regarding which advertising is presented to you and how you interact with it can be used to determine how well an advert has worked for you or other users and whether the goals of the advertising were reached. For instance, whether you saw an ad, whether you clicked on it, whether it led you to buy a product or visit a website, etc. This is very helpful to understand the relevance of advertising campaigns.
Information regarding which content is presented to you and how you interact with it can be used to determine whether the (non-advertising) content e.g. reached its intended audience and matched your interests. For instance, whether you read an article, watch a video, listen to a podcast or look at a product description, how long you spent on this service and the web pages you visit etc. This is very helpful to understand the relevance of (non-advertising) content that is shown to you.
Reports can be generated based on the combination of data sets (like user profiles, statistics, market research, analytics data) regarding your interactions and those of other users with advertising or (non-advertising) content to identify common characteristics (for instance, to determine which target audiences are more receptive to an ad campaign or to certain contents).
Information about your activity on this service, such as your interaction with ads or content, can be very helpful to improve products and services and to build new products and services based on user interactions, the type of audience, etc. This specific purpose does not include the development or improvement of user profiles and identifiers.
Content presented to you on this service can be based on limited data, such as the website or app you are using, your non-precise location, your device type, or which content you are (or have been) interacting with (for example, to limit the number of times a video or an article is presented to you).
With your acceptance, your precise location (within a radius of less than 500 metres) may be used in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
With your acceptance, certain characteristics specific to your device might be requested and used to distinguish it from other devices (such as the installed fonts or plugins, the resolution of your screen) in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Your data can be used to monitor for and prevent unusual and possibly fraudulent activity (for example, regarding advertising, ad clicks by bots), and ensure systems and processes work properly and securely. It can also be used to correct any problems you, the publisher or the advertiser may encounter in the delivery of content and ads and in your interaction with them.
Certain information (like an IP address or device capabilities) is used to ensure the technical compatibility of the content or advertising, and to facilitate the transmission of the content or ad to your device.
Information about your activity on this service may be matched and combined with other information relating to you and originating from various sources (for instance your activity on a separate online service, your use of a loyalty card in-store, or your answers to a survey), in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
In support of the purposes explained in this notice, your device might be considered as likely linked to other devices that belong to you or your household (for instance because you are logged in to the same service on both your phone and your computer, or because you may use the same Internet connection on both devices).
Your device might be distinguished from other devices based on information it automatically sends when accessing the Internet (for instance, the IP address of your Internet connection or the type of browser you are using) in support of the purposes exposed in this notice.
The choices you make regarding the purposes and entities listed in this notice are saved and made available to those entities in the form of digital signals (such as a string of characters). This is necessary in order to enable both this service and those entities to respect such choices.
have your say