Kevin, the campaign is not over until the polling stations have closed tonight. So with respect if Joanna feels that she is voting from fear it is perfectly acceptable for somebody to say to her that there may be a way to dispel those fears. She may still vote NO but she can do it from a conviction point of view as opposed to a fear which is a far better reason to vote.

Obviously given your “state funded cheerleaders” comment you are voting NO as well. I wonder would you be so accepting of Joanna’s decision if she said she was voting YES.

Jim – Joanna has stated that she voting out of fear. In a yes or no postion that’s perfectly acceptable. Others have said they are voting yes and I did not challeng them. I respect their decisions. The Campaign is over and both sides need to respect that.

Its not over just because you say its over. Its over when no more votes can be cast. And I sorry to say this but I have very little respect for anybody who thinks fear is a valid way to get somebody to cast a vote.

Jim – Signs of desperation coming through from the yes side via last minute pleas for conversions. The smug arrogance is gone. It is traditional to campaign up to the day before the vote. Fear is a very valid reason to vote yes or no. The X case referendum proved that. The Government said vote yes to make abortion illegal and it actually made it legal. Sometimes Governments get things very wrong. Respect peoples valid concerns.

If we ratify this amendment, we’ll become more like the UK where forced adoptions are becoming more and more common:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/8148987/Forced-adoption-another-win-for-the-child-snatchers.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3619388/How-social-services-can-seize-our-children.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7840835/Mother-whose-children-were-taken-for-adoption-joins-class-action.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2128987/Children-stolen-state.html

So complain to your local representative. Posting here will do nothing.

I posted a comment regarding my observation and thoughts on an issue. That’s the point of forums like this. Yes I already did complain to local TD etc as you well know ( we exchanged comments on here last week). Tomy is a little sensitive about anyone criticising teachers.. he’s one himself .

No Sean, I’m not a teacher. I’m qualified to teach yes but I’m unemployed so really you can try to subvert any point I make whatever way you like.

I would love a bit of that work but then if you were to walk in the door you’d just see a “privileged” teacher not an unemployed person getting some work.

My point was not specifically at you Sean, you’re not the only person here who made the point – You’re not the warm centre of Ireland despite your best efforts.

I wouldn’t even have replied if people said the above but included that they emailed off to ask about this situation so that they could get that work next time around or so that they could get some kind of reply from their local representation.

Now, don’t bother searching for spelling mistakes or misused “you’re” or “your” – I know it’s the only point you’d have left so just don’t bother.

actually Tomy despite what you may think of me I not one of those pedantic users on here who goes through every post looking for speaking or grammar mistakes. I make plenty of those myself no doubt.

and speaking should be spelling. I am blaming predictive text on phone for that one.

just back only one station this time some old faces and im not sure about.am sure there was lotsn out there who wood have ben pleased with the few bob for Christmas

This is the opinion from someone who was in foster care nhttp://www.thejournal.ie/readme/column-for-foster-children-like-me-the-childrens-referendum-is-a-new-chance-645576-Oct2012/

Creamy answer to both ?’s yes and no respectively.

@Irene not all children in foster care want to be adopted and not all foster carers want to adopt wether this referendum passes or not won’t change this.

Good man Norman. It seems that the system is working in your case.
Do you think we need to change the constution, or do a better job of using what we have?
Genuine question.

Little jim i want to be honest the system needs to change,but i don’t feel the wording of this change is. In my opinion it is to open to interpition and vague.

I’d like to hear that too Ailish. But…. not from one or two – from all. Foster families are not experts just because they are foster parents.

I’d love to hear the views also of the children of foster parents to get a view of what a full family feels. When we were a foster family during my teens it was a massively positive experience, but I have to say, that is seeing it on the whole – there were some tough times too.

Thanks Norman, as Ailish said it’s those involved in this system who should have a greater say in where we go from here.

A threat? I think you’re reading way too much into it. If it makes a turnout difference to have it on a Saturday, it’s a much stronger argument to do it again.

@Nick i’m not reading anything into it.Eamon Gilmore made the same comment during the week.Saturday voting makes more sense for the following reasons,
Children won’t miss school.
Students who live away from home during the week will be home.
Last most of the working public is off the weekend.
Now if the government want more of us to vote at least try and make it easier.In my opinion weekend voting would do this.

Oh, I agree with Saturday voting. But unless there’s an increased turnout for all those reasons, it’s harder to justify it.

You can’t vote here, David, for the same reason I can’t vote in your country. What’s the problem?

After five years you’re entitled to apply for citizenship. If you want to vote in all elections and referendums, then do that. Out of curiosity, do you vote in the elections you’re entitled to vote in? Every Irish resident, regardless of nationality, is entitled to vote in some form of election. And keep paying your taxes too. Would I be right in assuming that no one forced you onto to plane to Ireland with a gun?

Actually, David, a correction. You could have applied for citizenship after three years here considering the fact that your wife is Irish.

Regardless of your citizenship status – what’s your point!?

It costs approx ?1,000 for citizenship

I understand that but it is a major factor . Can we trust the state with more responsibility? Can we trust the state to put children’s rights before everything? History would suggest not, a change in constitution won’t change that fact.

But again, I would hope that a change in the constitution would be used against the government at appropriate times to vindicate children’s rights. Human rights barristers would certainly attempt to rely on it in court.

The argument from history is not an valid argument. Yes, the State has failed terribly in the past and there will probably be instances in the future where the State will fail even if this amendment is passed because no system is perfect. But this is almost the equivalent of saying that because people have gotten away with a certain crime in the past is there any point in having laws that outlaw it.

At the very least we are as a state showing signs of progress over the last few years. We now have a Children’s Ombudsman and a full cabinet ministry dedicated to Children and Youth Affairs. People may argue about the effectiveness of these posts but at least its an acknowledgement that there is a need to defend and protect children. This amendment strengthens that progress in that it says in the basic document that governs us that children are a voice that need to be heard when considering their future.

It’s not a basic document though Jim and the proposed working is vague and open to interpretation.

Celtic Lady we are not being told how many children currently fostered want to be adopted. We do know there are around 6000 children in foster care. Nearly a third of them are of married parents and so cannot be adopted even if they wanted to. Of the other 4000 only 12 were adopted last year. We are not told the impediments to their adoption; it certainly isn’t the constitution. The government would like you to believe that all 2000 children of married parents are somehow a special case and suitable for adoption but many are just in care until their families can better their situations and many are happy in long term foster care with foster parents who have no intention of adopting them. What would be the advantage for them being adopted by these foster parents? Well I suppose things come up periodically which need the signature of the birth parent and so social workers need to get involved. They also are obliged if at all possible to keep in contact with their birth parents while in foster care and wouldn’t have to do this if adopted.

I’m voting NO today as it’s our constitution and I think the onus is on those who wish to change the constitution to prove that the constitution has consistently let the children of Ireland down and must be changed to protect future generations. I havn’t heard that proof even though i have looked for it. Over and over again it’s people who have let the children down not the constitution.

sorry proposed ‘wording’

Anne, practically everything in the constitution is vague and open to interpretation. It’s designed to be that way. The constitution is not a document for putting in strict rules. Its a set of guidelines that set up the parameters for the laws we subsequently enact. That’s why we have subordinate laws and the Supreme Court to help us interpret the meaning of it.