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WELCOME TO THE Weird Wide Web – where we take a look at the week’s best offerings in tech and social media news.
Are you a gamer in love? Use that love to obliterate the bad guy’s in this free-to-play PC game.
Boston Dynamics unveiled the latest addition to its robotics collection, which looks similar to a dog. They showed how durable and well-balanced it is by, well, giving it a few kicks.
A team of researchers have built an STD testing device that can plug into your smartphone. It is hoped this technology could be used to make tests more accessible for people, as it can test for HIV and syphilis from a single prick of blood.
Google Japan released this gorgeous video of hundreds of Android phones and tablet playing Bethoven’s well-known Ode to joy together. Venture Beat reported that the “Android Chorus” performed in Toyko for a few days afterwards.
Let’s be honest, touch screen keyboards are really bloody annoying sometimes. Tactus Technology will soon be selling these covers, which use a type of oil to create bumps that rise up on the surface of the screen to use as buttons, Gizmodo reports. Theses bumps then disappear when you’re done typing. Wonderful.
It’s a great idea and long overdue. But I get a feeling that someone somewhere will make a complete balls of it.
Greg
I know what you mean. You’re just waiting fir it to be scraped
I’m with you in that Greg.
What could possibly go wrong?
Scraped after how many million spent on it?
Scrapped!!!
Anti austerity alliance will ask us not to cooperate with it since it could be used to route water bills
Great idea???? It’s costing €50m and has no benefit whatsoever. An Post has a delivery success rate of 98%, and spending €50m to try and gap the extra 2% is nonsense. Spend the money where it is needed in education, health care etc. More money wasted just to bulk up someone’s cv.
The potential balls up is in the pricing.
Because these post codes are deliberately random, if you want to convert a post code to an address (or vice versa) you must pay Eircode.
It’s not entirely clear what that involves. However, the pricing information quotes figures like €3,000 per website or €4 for 100 conversations (payable in advance):
Since this cost of this will be borne by businesses (and passed onto consumers), it’s hard to see lots a business jumping out of their seats to hand over money for something they currently do OK without. And unless there’s a critical mass of services that postcodes them then the thing will be a flop.
Another angle is that I’m involved in a number of volunteer organisations that would find post codes very useful. There’s no way however that we could pay money every time we wanted to match a post code to a real-world address. So they are simply out for us.
Ciarán, while I don’t think anybody can argue with an post and the job they do getting letter to homes I agree fully with Eircode. I live in the sticks and there can easily be 30 or 40 houses where the only difference on the envelope is the name. Now that’s fine when the postman has been delivering there for years and knows who’s who, but what about emergency services? Deliveries that aren’t from an post? Every time I get something from anywhere other than an post I have to explain to the driver where I live. It literally sounds like something from Fr. Ted.
” Yeah through the cross roads, left at the yellow bungalow, keep going on for half a mile……..”
Bad idea. Just wait for the junk mail.
An Post says they don’t need it and won’t use it.
Courier firms say it is not fit for their purposes.
SatNav firms say it is incompatible with their systems (unlike the already available – for free – Loc8 code system).
So what is Eircode *for* exactly?
When An Posts mail sorting machines start to divert mail to manual sorting because they cant read the post code they will have to use it .
Pat Rabbitte has already stated it will be used to generate taxable information for revenue to value homes more acurately.
Kind of like 90210, Deco?
You’ll probably need it to pay your TV licence
Big data is valuable , your car and home insurance will now be calculated by your postcode so if you live in high crime area or flooding area you can be directly targeted right down to your door step and expect to pay more as happens in the uk .
Marketing companies will fall over themselves for the revenue opportunities this postcode will generate.
John which courier companies have you spoken to about this? I work in the Logistics sector and we are very excited to see how we can integrate this with current technology for faster routing, reducing fuel consumption etc.
@John – “An Post says they don’t need it and won’t use it.” Any reference for this as it is quite a turn around from just last year:
“An Post, as the country’s designated Universal Service Provider, is making preparations to use Eircode across its systems. Donal Connell, CEO of An Post, said that:
“An Post supports the development of this key piece of national infrastructure and will play its part in the implementation of the programme; we are carrying out extensive work in preparing our mails processing systems for the launch of Eircodes in Ireland,” said Mr Connell.”
(http://www.autoaddress.ie/blog/pat-donnelly/2014/04/29/eircode-name-irelands-new-national-postcode-system)
“An Post says they don’t need it and won’t use it” That’s simply not true. A quote from @PostVox on twitter last week: “The new eircode will be used by An Post and our staff, we are playing a full part in their implemention” and “..of course we will be using the eircode, we are currently working towards that end”
“SatNav firms say it is incompatible with their systems” Which SatNav firms said this?
Declan: see this item from the Irish Examiner – http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/eircode-was-designed-to-exclude-an-post-competitors-claim-opponents-312386.html
@John – and that story says it has been designed specifically for An Post, so why would they now not use it?
It’s an intern with a spreadsheet and a vLookup function… everything Pat Rabitte has touched while in office has been a farce.
Richard (and all your other fellow members of Gamma/autoaddress) who are employed in helping to deliver the address database that is Eircode.
Yes indeed An Post is playing its part in implementation because it is being paid (compensated) to do so. It is receiving more than €8m and an annual fee to help implement and maintain Eircode but that does not translate into “we are going to fully implement Eircode ourselves”
” Of Course we will be using Eircode” is a recognition that somewhere within the An Post organisation, Eircodes will be handled at some point but it does not mean that An Post will be using every element of Eircode every day to sort and deliver mail. An Post in its mail centres sorts only to post towns. This means the most it would use there is the first 3 characters of Eircode. In his replies to the Oireachtas hearing on Eircode the Mails Director of An Post could only identify manual sorting by temporary staff at Christmas as an advantage of Eircode and that could only be the first 3 characters as the remainder is humanly unreadable!
Then in the local sorting offices, there is no automation and the only relevant element of the code that those locations could use is the last 4 characters which cannot be read manually other than in an occasional look up on a PC to check an address. Finally, it is inconceivable that mail would be delivered door to door using an Eircode entered into a GPS. Not only is this operationally impractical but a GPS would not be able to distinguish one door from another in many cases! Unless Richard that you are telling us that An Post is going to redesign its whole operation, close local sorting offices and lay off staff as a result?
An Post quoted a cost of between €27 and €37m to PA consultants to fully implement the ABC 123 postcode which would have been easier handled. At the Oireachtas hearings they revealed they are only spending €2m. Therefore, An Post will neither be fully implementing NOR fully using Eircode. Minister Rabbitte, in announcing Eircode, was quick to say that the use of Eircode on mail was not mandatory and mail will be delivered in the same timescales without it;- not the words of a Minister who has full agreement for implementation from the USP and is trying to encourage full use!
If An Post were to fully implement Eircode then they would be able to drop use of post towns in their postal addresses;- something for which they won high court sanction in 2012 when they were still bidding for the postcode themselves. I understand that An Post will continue to insist that postal address are used!
As for SatNav’s;- whereas I know the truth of this from routine communications with both Garmin & TomTom, it is noticeable that in 17 months no statement has ever been made by Eircode reps declaring their support and I think Eircode would be falling over itself to do so if it had it. In the Oireachtas hearings there was a claim that maybe not a first but eventually they would support Eircode! In a recent trade briefing, a member of the Eircode team announced the Eircode Finder app but declared that it did not even have navigation capability and that they were thinking about adding it and were talking to Google about that. Most would realise that you do not have to talk to Google about adding navigation to an app! Wouldn’t it be strange if Eircode were to be introduced and there was no way to navigate to an Eircode? Well that might well be the case!
So Richard, the truth is a lot different to what you suggest!
@BoggerBlogger – An Post said “Ye can stick your fancy codes up your hole. Sure what would we be needing some fancy fandango of a contraption like that, don’t we already know Mrs. Brady lives in the house with the green gate after the bend with the crooked tree that looks a bit like Patrick Swayze” – Source http://www.anpost.ie
Gary, *I’m* not suggesting anything, I’m simply pointing out that An Post have clearly stated that they will be fully implementing Eircode. You might disagree with that, but it isn’t me you’re disagreeing with, it’s An Post.
…I know and I’m simply pointing out that what you are pointing out does not stack up. Guess everyone could just as their postman anyone, probably find he/she knows nothing of Eircode!
Whats a TV licence?
Might have known it is for govt. carry ons
“will now be calculated by your postcode” … what, as opposed to being calculated by your local area name which is KNOWN already to be effected by flooding or crime ?
Will make a change from typing 0000 when ordering online.
I use “Y0r MA”
I use IR3L4ND
6it3 m3
G1gg1ty
4fkske
A55 HLE5
8008135
5EX B0M8
G5pot
Sorry Al – couldn’t find that
I want to get all excited but they’ve fooled me before!
All they had to do was use part of the unique MPRN number which is on the esb meter on every house in the country, it would have cost next to nothing, but that’s too easy .
Some people are off the grid though, so they don’t have one.
who? who is off the electric grid in this day ‘n age. you’d be hard pressed to do anything without electric
I know of one person who generated their own, and another who simply doesn’t use it.
then they would have no use for an eircode.
Dennis you are completely off Ireland’s grid in Malta .
Really ? I think you just like to be contrary .
Seems over complicated…
Now to mail anything you’ll need to know one specific 4 digit number for every single address, So we won’t be able to look up someone’s postcode by knowing what area they are in?
I’m sure the old style address will get the letter to its destination for a long time yet
Yes but where there are 3 John Doyles living on the one road, surely an identifier so one doesn’t get the others court order or social welfare letter is a good idea?
Post Code are a great idea but we managed to design the worst one possible. The geographic part of the code is beyond useless! It will only bring you to say D4 (Dublin 4) a huge area unless you have paid to access the database.
Why do people not show confidence in Pat Rabbit? I am sure he knows what he is doing……………..
This is all about communication. Will this system work with my GPS TomTom or Garmin or the like? answer appears not??????? Are we going down the Dublin rail system, where the gauges were different and so linking is not possible or the Port Tunnel not being big enough for bigger trucks or the original M50 being built too small????Who sits around a table and makes a decision like this that will not work with the very people who need it most, An Post , Courier firms and SatNav firms ??????
@Dave The designers used Scrabble is shoite you not
Im expecting a report saying that Denis O Brien has the contract for rolling out eircode.
They’ve learnt their lesson surely by now, anything Dennis buys now will be routed through a myriad of holding and off shore companies that we’ll never know he’s bought it
news to me
If the last four digits are randomly generated and there’s no relationship with those and your neighbours, how on earth will SatNav units find your house?
They can’t and won’t. Seems crazy to me.
Seems shi1te
They will. don’t worry.
They won’t. What a missed opportunity (again).
They will pay Eircode for access to their database
I wonder if they’ll bother considering that they’ll have to rewrite chunks of code to cater for the non standard postcode that the government have chosen to use.
This is as rotten as siteserve. The third bidder mysteriously withdrew from tendervand then low and behold won a major contract from the winner Capita.
An Post who dont want postcodes, dont need postcodes and wont use Eircodes lost the €27 million tender but the winner will give them €22.6 million. Note it is illegal for the government to give An Post money so they give it to Capita and Capita give it to An Post.
And the code is utter crap too, difficult to come up with a more useless design. It cannot be learned, has no small areas and ALWAYS needs an app or gps to lookup.
And it is 3-4 times more expensive for business to use than the more useful UK postcodes.
BOYCOTT EIRCODE
Something tells me you’ve an anti-Eircode agenda….
No we’re all for it :)
something tells me you’ve got wool over your eyes. wake up man. this severs no one expect the man receiving the brown envelope
Hard to believe but true that Eircode is about to create new Dublin postcode type areas (D4 etc) for the whole country and nobody has ever seen or approved them. A CD with sample Eircodes was sent out to interested parties over the last few weeks and the Eircodes had been removed and the first 3 characters of it, called the routing key or the D04 part of the postcode, was not shown either. The new postal areas for the whole country will divide rural, farming, industrial, residential and urban communities and most likely will effect property and business values but the details are being deliberately concealed.
This is a postcode that has missed every deadline, is not what was agreed and recommended by consultants and Government boards, it has never been tested, the tender competition that delivered it breached EU regulations and Irish procurement guidelines and it is not supported by key industry groups or technology partners. It is being devised and implemented by companies who have no related experience anywhere in the world. Both Ministers Rabbitte and White have ignored calls to review it and as a result, it is now the subject of Data Commissioner, Oireachtas Committee and Comptroller & Auditor General investigations. It was also the subject of an EC investigation and follow up requirements have not been completed to the EC’s satisfaction, 17 months after being told what to do. Everything related to this has been repeatedly denied by those involved and they have had to be chased by the EC investigation team.
Yet, Minister Alex White is pushing ahead with implementation, claiming it will only cost €27m when in fact if fully implemented throughout the economy it will cost over €100m
The Data Protection legislation that the Government approved to get Eircode through has never been heard or seen by either house of the Oireachtas either. The rollout of Eircode was delayed till the summer so that the Dail will be in recess when the outcry begins, hoping that it will have been forgotten about by the time of the new sitting in September!
Minister White, following the lead of Minister Rabbitte, are ramming Eircode through to serve interests which are not those of the Irish public or Irish businesses!
To be clear, yes I represent Loc8 Code which offers a proven alternative to Eircode so I do have a vested interest. However, Loc8 never got to enter the postcode tender competition because of the conditions set which excluded SME’s and was found to breach EC regs by the EC investigation. But none of this makes anything in my comments above less true and all are verifiable by material in the public domain…
I use and love loc8 and looks like I will keep doing so as it works on my satnav like a dream. Same crap from a completely ineffectual and seemingly corrupt government.
36-26-36.
Happy Monday :)
36A, B, C, D, E, F, G, or GG?
Anything less than a D is a waste of time.
Anything more than a D is a mouthful
giggity
Hmmm every flat / apartment in a block will get its own code for the same front door… How stupid is that…Oh wait Eircodes are for property tax, water charges and TV licence not deliveries!
Don’t like the idea, will not be using it
Hearhear won’t be using it either. Bet it will end up costing us money.
Typical Irish negativity about anything new.
Like the E voting system scraped not fit for purpose. So let’s wait and see what’s not fit for purpose again.
Of course, you don’t have to use it.
Do you?
Why have we 7 digits in Ireland and the UK with 64 million people need only 6 ,
Answers on a postcard to the minister
We will only have 3 digits really. The he first 3 digits will be all An Post use. The other 4 digits are for tax collection and junk mailers.
Eircode doesn’t meet the requirements of a postcode as set out by the governments own Postcode working group.
Eircode is a stroke pulled by Rabbitte, White and Labour to guarantee 10,000 CWU votes in the general election while creating an address database.
Delivering parcels, getting from A to B, guiding ambulance quickly to an RTA…. FORGET ABOUT IT!!!
UK is 7 digits too. Only used where postal regions are bigger e.g Brighton BN27 4WH
any address’s i know in the UK are 7 digits
Is mór an trua nach bhfuil siad bunaithe ar na logaimeacha Gaeilge. “Níos Sasanaí ná na Sasanaigh féin” (“More English than the English themselves”) !
The English also have Internet, cats, bread and television. Should we avoid using those for fear of long our own identity?
*of losing
Níl Gaeilge, ceol Gaelach, iománaíocht, ag na Sasanaigh- an cheart dóibh iad a chóipeáil uainne? Nó an gceapafá go bhfuil seans ar domhan go ndéanfadh siadsan muid a chóipeáil?
Pardon?
Nobody understands that language stop wasting your time typing it
Interesting that most users of this site will probably need Gooogle Translate to understand Gaeltan’s last post. The problem with Google Translate is that it relies on previous translations and the only language Gaelige is frequently directly translated into is English so it’s a bit limited. This makes his last post a bit ironic.
Níl aon tóin tinn mar do thóin tinn féin!!!
Cop on you Philistine!!
Speak for yourself Paul
Ciúnas bothar cailín bainne
gytha’s foderyn. thysaiud metghnth an nucuch
I bpreabadh na suil, Rith me ar nod na gaoithe ach sharon ni bheolain ag uachtair reoite bothar agus modh codhnailloch. Fàda
什麼?
#paul
Ach tuigeann tú “more English than the English themselves” n’est pas?
The letters used for Eircode probably won’t have anything to do with placenames in either official language, apart from ‘D’ being used for Dublin addresses – incidentally, ‘Dublin’ comes from the Irish ‘Duibhlinn’. In Canada, postal code areas have letters which bear no resemblance to place names ‘ ‘T’ is for Alberta, ‘R’ for Manitoba, so somewhere in the Gaeltacht could end up with an Eircode beginning with ‘J’ or ‘Z’.
Roll on the post code lottery game just like the one the UK have
Don’t know how it’ll work with the emergency services it hasn’t been integrated into any systems ( in the Munster fire service at least ) so we’ll still be asking for your street address or town land and directions to your house.
@Trevor IFESA have already said it is so confusing it could cost lives. A65-ABCC and A65-ABCD could be 100km by road apart for example.
Also ZERO use for RTAs and all non dwelling call outs.
Also Eircodes are a secret so if you spot a house fire in a rural area while on a Sunday drive you won’t have a clue of the Eircode to call. You have to be told an EIRCODE it cannot be generated on the spot like a Loc8 code for example.
Costing lives might be going a bit too as emergency services will still use the same protocols to find the incident but yes I see where you’re coming from it’ll take a massive overhaul of existing practises and systems to introduce this correctly for fire ems and gardai even if each control centre in the country had the ability to use these codes each vehicle needs the tech installed to actually use these codes to bring them to the location of the incident so in my opinion selling it as a faster way of the emergency services of finding you is a non runner
It introduces confusion and also different system for dwellings and RTAs. A system such as Loc8 code which is already proven can be used for dwellings and RTAs or mountain rescue or any non-dwelling emergency.
National Ambulance Service is on record stating that Eircode is not the answer to all their needs interms of rapid access to casualties/patients.
@Trevor. The satnav will have to have the database which converts Eircodes to latitude/longitude co-ordinates, installed on it but it’s not clear when or if the satnav vendors will support it. Google may support it also for their mapping system. Don’t know when that will happen either. I think the launch could turn out to be a bit of a damp squib when people realise that couriers etc. won’t be able to make use of it, if that turns out to be the case.
Another one of Ireland’s great ideas. They must forget we’re a small island!
If Ireland’s small, what does that make Singapore or Malta, both of which have postcode systems?
It’s great news for the online industry around the world , they can now access every home in Ireland. Bad news for our retailers as their online presence is poor in comparison.
What has this Government wasted in setting up Irish Water + Eircodes anyone got that figure ???????.
billions and billions
Fianna Fail started the ball rolling with Eircodes.
In fairness Noel Dempseys aspirations and intentions were good. It was Pat Rabbitte who pulled a stroke and gave us an unusable system while still managing to spend €27 illegally funding An Post.
White is backing this stroke to the hilt because Labour need 10,000 CWU votes.
Even Eamon Ryan who started the Postcode tender distanced himself from the tender subsequently as the European Commission said it was unfair and excluded SMEs.
Scrapped has two ‘p’s people…get with the program
The should team up with Irish Water and mail the post code and the next bill together.
Former Minister Hogan was seen meeting with Capita management at Birmingham City Council HQ.
Capita collect council tax in Birmingham… watch this space!
You’ve mentioned the tax angle on numerous posts, GLE
Why is efficient tax collection a bad thing can you explain to me? Tax isn’t opt-out, and non-compliance costs everyone else. Do you support tax evasion by wealthy people? Or is just de little peeple who should avoid tax.
Because it’s primary function in the 21 century should be an aid to delivery, aid to efficient navigation and aid to emergency services.
All for efficient collection of tax but addressing and national addresses database is a separate issue to a usable postcode design.
Ronan only the poor pay tax. the richer you are the more you can afford to avoid it.
I use http://www.openpostcode.org/ for my postcode, more and more courier companies will use it to deliver, added benefit is they can use code to get directions to the door.
This is the greatest load of shite that was ever rolled out. Absolutely no need for this at all. I can see that by giving each house a unique identifier they have you for all time. People should revolt against this kind of thing. Soon we will have to wear identifiers on out foreheads . What a shower of muppets, anyway they wil probably make a bags of this just as they are doing with everything else.
Exactly what problem are we trying to solve with this new code ? Is there a more deserving problem which could do with 28 million or 100 million or whatever?
10,000 CWU votes for Labour in the General Election is much more deserving problem than a usable postcode.
I do not understand this code at all. For example, last Christmas I was able, by using the Loc8 map, to put codes on all my cards being sent within Ireland. But how will I get the codes next Christmas? Or is this not what it is meant to be?
it’s a secret. it’s not meant to be useful to the property owner. It’s only useful for generating taxable databases.
You will have to contact everyone on your list and ask them their code.
Only they will be told it.
They really should have made this into a proper two part code (if that was essential to do).
Having driven in both the UK & USA recently, both their systems work perfectly well. The post/zip code brings you to an area & the rest of the address brings you to where you need to be.
Having unique & individual codes helps nobody.
You can almost guarantee that this won’t be taken up by couriers or the likes of Amazon etc because it’ll require a code change that’ll cost money & then they’ll still be required to pay an annual licensing fee.
It’s about time! Only in Ireland is “turn right at the big tree and go about 100 meters past the pub” considered a legitimate address.
I think Wales got there before you. they actually invented a village name based on a direction
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
“St Mary’s church in the hollow of the white hazel near to the fierce whirlpool and the church of St Tysilio of the red cave”
Dear Michael, you’ll get more green thumbs if you insult me in a language people understand. : P
Why was the “Do you think Eircodes are a good idea” poll removed.
Was it going the wrong way?
Did DCENR have a word in your ear?
Somebody must have not liked the results.
It’s back again as a garda story???
Having one postcode per home is a pure money making racket as Capita or some other private company is going to make a fortune from maintaining it the database.
A highly accurate grid based system would have be a much better futureproof solution.
No getting away from Big Brother.
Wonder will Paddy Power take bets on how long it will take to become a complete and utter waste of tax payers money.
Still not payin’.
Bleedin’ nanny state selling my post code to online marketeers.
13 things that are wrong with Eircode…
What’s wrong with Eircode?
Lots. Much of this document arises from discussions and emails with Loc8. I am not affiliated with them in any way but they have always seemed to me to be at least as good if not manifestly better than Eircode. And FREE!!! I understand that the material here plus more was provided to the Minister in December but as of now no response has been recieved. Perhaps the Minister might read this?
1. Poor Design
2. No Meaningful Testing
3. Database driven
4. Major Data Protection Security risk?
5. Only for dwellings
6. No Logic – Easily Confused·
7. Requires constant updating / Delayed Updates
8. Difficult to integrated with software / devices
9. Limited use for emergency services & may cost lives
10. No use for utility companies or local authority infrastructure
11. No use for transport company infrastructure
12. Limited use for tourism
13. No use for temporary events
What has Loc8 Code got to offer over Eircode?
▪ Designed to be simple to use and communicate
▪ Lightweight algorithm driven
▪ Faster and more secure
▪ Self‐Service option saves money
▪ For everywhere on island of Ireland.
▪ Install once NEVER requires updating
▪ Ideal for all emergency services/public safety on the island of Ireland
▪ Ideal for utility company / local authority infrastructure
▪ Ideal for tourism
▪ Ideal for temporary events
▪ Ideal for wildlife surveying
A shoal of Red Herrings
▪ Random versus Sequential versus Nested?
▪ Not accurate enough?
▪ Giving a postcode to an apartment?
▪ Checksum doesn’t work?
▪ What if you can’t self service?
What’s wrong with Eircode?
Eircode – Poor Design (No design?)
No competition was ever held for the design of Eircode and as such the code has the appearance of being “designed by committee”. Eircode is not the code recommended by the Post Code board, Consultant reports or specified in Tender documents.
An inexpensive design competition would have offered the DCENR an overview of the innovative code technologies already in existence. This would have allowed a more informed decision on the postcode to be made saving the department money when it came to adoption, delivery and maintenance. Essentially Eircode is dumb with no built in intelligent features as befitting a 21st century design.
Eircode – No Meaningful Testing
To my knowledge no large scale field trials have been carried out on Eircodes and there has been no independent oversight.
Eircode – Database Driven
The main problem with a database driven postcode is that to use the postcode you need access to the database. For persons out and about this means that they must either have a copy of the database on a handheld computer or smartphone or they must have access to the database using an over the air (OTA) connection.
It has been reported that the full Eircode database will be in the region of 2GB in size and just to put that in perspective the full Navteq (maps& postcodes) for ALL of Europe are also approximately 2GB. If the database does indeed end up at 2GB then the vast majority of satnav devices already in use will not be able to physically fit the Eircode database and detailed maps of Ireland. This is if GPS manufacturers support the inclusion of Eircode on their devices which is very doubtful for the less abundant in car satnavs.
It has been suggested that not all of the database is required and that users need only to load maps for select regions but this ignores reality. Business uses require the full country (& NI) to be on their satnav at all times as many work all over the country, ditto for tourists. Manufacturers of mapping do not split below Ireland and UK level because of market size – Ireland has low value on its own
The alternative to having on‐board database access is to have over the air (OTA) access to the database but this requires good 3G/4G connectivity and as am sure you are aware that mobile provider data coverage is poor to non‐existent in the very areas that you will need to rely most on your postcode to navigate. OTA is not available at all when you run out of credit and no emergency data use provided for by network providers.
So on‐devices databases go out of date right after an update and OTA databases suffer from coverage problems and a database in itself is expensive to maintain.
Eircode – Major Data Protection Security Risk?
Using an on‐board database will lead to the situation whereby there will be many thousands of devices in existence with a FULL copy of the entire Eircode database. This database will have to allow access to the GPS device so postcodes can be looked up. There will be no impediment to copying this database from the GPS device onto a server and either cracking its security or just reverse engineering the database by reading out every possible Eircode permutation. This will be a relatively simple and quick task because there are only 2 million approx. addresses, less if individual apartments are removed.
Having a postcode reliant on a central database also introduces a single point of failure and a single target for “denial of service” attacks etc. Obviously redundancy and replication will be used but this increases cost.
Another type of threat a database faces is a silent data poisoning attack i.e. data could be modified so that postcodes could be switched, re‐directed or otherwise made unusable. Also remember that if a database is available “Over The Air” then copies of the database will be a target for attack 24/7. Some of the biggest companies and organisations in the world have been hacked, ICan Eircode security can be guaranteed at all and this is before we even consider internal personnel security breaches.
Why proceed with a system that is open to attack why not design out the security threat.
Eircode – Only for Dwellings (With a letterbox!)
This is probably one of the most limiting aspects to the Eircode format and has implications for emergency services response times for non‐dwelling incidents, it also makes Eircode useless for any structure or location without a post‐box. I will cover the limitations of this further on.
Eircode – No Logic Easily Confused
The problem with a random code is that it cannot be memorised by persons who do not use the code on a regular basis. One example would be a manual parcel sorting depot where humans read the address on a parcel and then place it in a particular bay or cage for onward delivery, random codes will only add to address confusion unless every worker has a handheld computer with access to the database, this would be too slow and too expensive to use day to day.
Emergency services especially will suffer from confusion with a code with no built in safeguards and that needs database access at all times. Having to always look up a code before knowing even the rough destination will introduce delays and may cost lives.
Eircode – Requires constant updating / Delayed Updates
Updating a satnav is a slow process, depending on the update coverage required the mapping download alone could be between 300MB and 2,000MB even before the Eircode database is added. On fast broadband this will not be much of an issue but lots of people and businesses throughout the country still have very slow broadband. The result of this will be that people will be very reluctant to update their GPS devices and the consequence of not updating will be that they end up using an out of data Eircode databases that will no longer be accurate. If there is a user cost to update the database then this will reduce the upgrade potential even more and therefore the uptake by the general public. For emergency services and utility companies it will mean that vehicles may have to be taken off the road on a regular basis to perform updates to the database or that an expensive maintenance and update regime will need to be created to keep tally of portable devise and their update state. In short this is just not practically feasible.
This also asks the question of how quickly you can get an Eircode. If you are building a house in the countryside how do you get deliveries without an Eircode and how completed will a house have to be before you can apply for an Eircode. Once you do apply for an Eircode how long before you get one and how long before it appears on the master database. If people don’t update their own copy of the database on their satnav or car they will never be able to use Eircode to find you.
Eircode – Difficult to integrate with software / devise
This comes back to the Eircode design being reliant on a database and any device or application needing access to a code needs access to the full database. Many older satnav devices will not have enough ROM to store the database file and access by newer devices over 3G/4G will be reliant on sufficient OTA broadband coverage. Of course satnavs do not have 3G/4G connectivity so there is a good chance the vast majority of satnav units out in the wild will never receive Eircode compatibility again affecting uptake by small business, the general public and tourists. The emergency services cannot rely on OTA availability to carry out their respective missions and an on‐board database is much more expensive and resource demanding than a simple algorithm.
Eircode – Limited use for emergency services and may cost lives.
There are 3 ways that Eircodes could cost lives either through omission or confusion.
1. Firstly because Eircodes are only for dwellings it means they are absolutely no use for Road Traffic Accidents which are a large percentage of call outs for the emergency services. Organisations such as the National Ambulance Service have pointed out to me that “At no stage has the NAS or myself (Martin Dunne) outlined that this system is the answer to all our needs in relation to rapid access to patients etc., however it is a mechanism that will assist and fill the void that exists at the moment.”
Why not give the NAS and other emergency services what they want, rapid access to patients? Why have a system that only covers 50% of incidents? Add farm accidents, forestry accidents, inland waterway and mountaineering accidents to the long list where Eircodes will be of no use. There is merit in the suggestions by IFESA that Eircodes will cost lives and these warnings must be heeded.
2. Secondly because of the random nature of Eircodes the possibility exists in some locations whereby a single digit error may send emergency services many 10s of km in the wrong direction. For example Donegal has the 3rd highest km of roads per county and will be covered by three Eircode districts and each one of these districts will have >2,000km of roads meaning a single digit error for example between A65‐ABCC and A65‐ABCD could be 100km. Of course there are methods of verifying the address to narrow things down but why not have a code with built in error checking rather than relying on interrogating someone who called 999/112 who may not speak English, may be drunk or under the influence of drugs, or badly
injured etc. Why not remove the potential for confusion in the first place?
3. Thirdly, bizarrely Eircodes are a secret and so you will not know your neighbours or a strangers Eircode without being specifically told it. If you happen to be a tourist on a drive in a rural area and you come across a house on fire you may have no means to direct the emergency services to the fire location. No possibility exists with Eircode to generate a code on the spot unlike algorithm based codes which all offer this feature.
In all 3 cases above Eircodes could cost lives either directly because of errors or indirectly because a better system would improve response times leading to more lives being saved. How can any minister stand over a system that will cost lives?
Eircode – No use for utility companies or local authority infrastructure.
Because Eircodes are only for dwellings that will receive mail from An Post. They will be of no use for utility companies or local authorities looking to manage dispersed infrastructure. Currently a multitude of different utilities, semi states and councils use their own systems for marking public lighting, telegraph poles and bridges etc. with Interpretation not available to the Public. Having one simple off the shelf system would save resources within each organisation, creating efficiency’s and saving money.
Furthermore Neil Mc Donald of the FTAI summed it up when he listed locations that will never have an Eircode….workshops, farm buildings, windmills, piers, jetties, fields, large fixed assets, lay‐‐bys, points of interest, lanes, archaeological sites, roads, natural features, intersections, accident black‐‐spots, pylons, parks, motorways, junctions, antennae, wells, graveyards, pumping stations, viewing points, manholes/utility access points, car‐‐parks, beaches, level‐crossings, transformers, bridges, forests, bogs, lakes, playing pitches, cycle‐‐ tracks, picnic areas, public toilets, walkways such as the Wild Atlantic Way.
Eircode – No use for transport company infrastructure
Companies like Irish Rail have a very large infrastructure to manage and do this using proprietary databases for bridges & level crossings etc. But the situation could exist whereby a truck could knock down a bridge and demolish or otherwise hide the sign showing the proprietary database name for that particular bridge. A one system fits all would allow persons on site to generate a code for that site and possibly prevent a derailment.
Again because only dwellings with post boxes will get an Eircode they will be no use for bus stops or minor train stations. We should be making ease of access to public transport a priority and Eircode will not help with this.
Eircode – Limited use for Tourism
Obviously for tourists with a compatible smartphone app or satnav Eircode will be of help trying to find a hotel or restaurant. However when it comes to heritage sites Eircodes will again be no use. No use for tourists visiting dolmens, stone circles, ruined castles etc.
An increasing number of tourists are starting to visit Ireland for walking and cycling routes and again Eircode are an utter fail when it comes to highlighting points of interest along these routes. If we want to grow our tourism numbers why are we not acting in a coherent manner and doing everything possible to direct and help tourists once they are here? Will waypoints on the Wild Atlantic Way be on Eircode? NO!
A Duty of Care responsibility also arises if the State encourages tourists to visit remote locations such as the Wild Atlantic Way. The state must provide reasonable means for public safety, signage, and fixed rescue points etc. unfortunately Eircode provide no mechanism to assist in these scenarios.
Eircode – No use for temporary events
Eircode has no provision for temporary postcodes for temporary dwellings.
What has Loc8 Code got to offer over Eircode?
Loc8 Code – Designed to be simple to use and communicate
Loc8 Codes were designed by Mr. Gary Delaney a formal naval service ships officer with a Master’s Degree in Navigation from the University of Nottingham. Mr. Delaney’s career involved day to day navigation of Ireland’s 7 million square km of nautical territory. Since leaving the Defence Forces Mr. Delaney has further honed his navigational skills carrying out precise GPS surveys for industry. He also works as a Navigation Consultant and expert witness for the State. In short Mr. Delaney understands a lot about navigation & mapping and used his extensive knowledge & experience to design and introduce a consumer friendly navigation and waypoint code known as Loc8 Code.
Loc8 Codes are based upon logical nested co‐ordinates ultimately allowing you to define a large area, a small area or an exact point with +/‐ 6 metre accuracy. It is important to point out that Loc8 Codes are not a sequential code, they are a logically assigned nested code. This is important as it allows codes to be assigned to new buildings that are built between two existing buildings.
For full accuracy Loc8 Codes use 8 digits with 2 dashes separating the groups of digits. So for example my business in Rathcoole uses NT4‐82‐V23 to identify its location. That format of XXX‐XX‐XXX is important as it allows users and software to positively identify a Loc8 Code. Other codes do not use a structure like this and are likely to be confused with words or even phone numbers.
From the full 8 digit code reduced accuracy version of the code can be used by omitting some of the constituent parts. So NT4‐V23 will identify a locality 100m x 100m while NT4 will identify a zone 3.5km x 3.5km approx. These options would be useful for example for obtaining a delivery quote without having to reveal your full postcode to the shipping company privacy advantage that Eircode cannot match. It could also be useful for taxi dispatchers or emergency service operations to assign resources quickly to a given zone.
One big advantage that Loc8 Codes have over Eircodes is that that the zone and locality codes are logically rather than randomly assigned. This means delivery drivers or emergency service personnel will be able to learn the zone or locality structures that apply to their area of responsibility. Another big plus over Eircodes is that the full and locality versions of the Loc8 Code include a checker digit that help detect common human errors. Please note the checker digit is NOT a checksum and therefore does not function like a checksum whereby the checksum would have to change when the code is shortened. A checker digit is designed with a consumer code in mind, it spots common errors without being unnecessarily complicated.
Having a code that is logical and includes built in safeguards makes it easier to communicate and verify. Other steps have also been taken to avoid confusion with Northern Ireland postcodes e.g. BT and other common and predictable causes of confusion e.g. w and vv etc.
Loc8 Code – Lightweight algorithm driven
Unlike Eircodes Loc8 Codes do not rely on a database, they rely on a simple yet sophisticated engineered computer algorithm. The code is simple in that it consists of approximately 50 lines of computer code making it very small and lightweight when it comes to integrating Loc8 Codes into software or hardware. The code is sophisticated in that those 50 lines of code contain all the smart rules and exceptions for consistent generation or mapping of a Loc8 Code.
Any device (computer, mobile phone, GPS system) which contains the Loc8 Code algorithm can calculate the exact location of a Loc8 without an Internet connection and/or database search. This means 100% coverage, 100% of the time without exception.
It doesn’t matter if the user is looking up a Loc8 Code on the Blasket islands or in central Dublin, it will just work. Enter GPS co‐ordinates and get a Loc8 Code out, reverse the process and put in a Loc8 Code and get the exact same GPS coordinates back out.
Loc8 Code – Faster and more secure
Because a Loc8 Code can be translated into GPS coordinates without connecting over the Internet it is much quicker in use than Eircode. Consider the case of the emergency services, even if they do have an Internet connection, that connection can take time to connect and may be slow. Vital minutes could be lost. Because Loc8 Codes do not rely on a central database server they are much more secure and there is no single point of failure and generation or mapping is practically instant.
The fact that Loc8 Codes can be generated on‐device and without broadband coverage (database access) makes them infinitely more available than Eircodes as planned. No security issues arise from reverse running the code because there are half a billion possible Loc8 Codes and no way of knowing which of these are actually dwellings. Reverse engineering of Eircode makes sense to a hacker while doing the same to Loc8 is simply unfeasible. Loc8 Codes are not a hack, DoS or data poisoning risk unlike like Eircodes. Also an algorithm needs no maintenance and thus suffers no downtime so no need to worry about an SLA.
Loc8 Code – Self Service saves money
Because of the publicly available nature of apps and websites that generate Loc8 Codes these can be used to “self‐service” the delivery of Loc8 Codes to early adopters. If it is the intention of the Department of Communication Energy and Natural Resources to notify 2.2 million addresses of their individual postcode then this is likely to cost €2.2 million to deliver when postage and printing are taken into account. If a sizeable number of these locations were able to self‐service the creation of their own postcode this would mean that the savings in postage alone could pay for the acquisition of the portion of Loc8 Code that is not already owned by the state via Enterprise Ireland.
The government could announce an initial self‐service phase of the postcode roll‐out followed up by a postal rollout at a later date to all those that have not already self‐generated a code. Self‐service creation of Loc8 Codes is already tried and trusted and has been integrated using ordinance survey house mapping and to date over 100,000 codes have been generated.
Self‐service also has the advantage in that it can be applied to non‐dwellings such as building sites etc. and reduces bureaucracy and hence running costs for the overall postcode project. I suspect that self‐service will show transparency of code generation and may enhance “buy‐in” and adoption by citizens on the ground by offering them enhanced ownership. Exact details of how Loc8 would propose a roll‐out available from Loc8 themselves who have plans based on 4 years in market place.
Loc8 Code – For every location on island of Ireland
On a small island such as Ireland it makes sense to roll out a code that can be used in both jurisdictions. This makes it easier for people, businesses and tourists to travel around the island and it also can play a part enhancing emergency services co‐operation as there are many occasions, especially in border areas, where fire and ambulance appliances from the south head north and vice versa.
Loc8 Code was designed from the beginning to be an all‐Ireland address code. Using a lightweight algorithm based code would impose very low adoption costs for all users north and south. Because it is algorithm based, northern ireland users simply need to opt‐in by creating a self‐service code, and there is no expensive database required.
Loc8 Code – Install once NEVER requires updating
Because the algorithm is so small it means that any update for a device such as a GPS or smartphone can actually be quite tiny and measured in kilobytes not megabytes or gigabytes. So the firmware update file needed to make a GPS compatible with Loc8 Code could potentially be 2 million times smaller than the update for Eircode which is important if your broadband is very slow.
Importantly this firmware update for your GPS or satnav only needs to be carried out ONCE. Once the GPS is Loc8 aware it stays this way and never needs an update again. Garmin have featured Loc8 code since 2010 with expanding devices supported since then. Compare to Eircode this means consumers, businesses and tourists update ONCE only not every 3 months. Loc8 Code is much easier & cheaper for them to adopt and maintain which is even more important for organisations such as emergency services.
For smartphone users the Point8 App is available now from the iTunes or Android Play store.
Loc8 Code – Ideal for emergency services
A dwelling based postcode is only useful for emergencies that occur in and close to dwellings but there are many accidents that happen away from dwellings such as RTAs, cliff, mountaineering & potholing accidents, farm accidents, forestry accidents, missing persons, light aircraft crashes etc. Loc8 Code can help in all these situations as ANY location on the Island of Ireland can be given a Loc8 Code.
Getting ambulances or other emergency services to a casualty quickly saves lives but it also saves money and allows organisations to maximise the current resources they have at their disposal. I think it is well recognised that our emergency services are in crisis due to lack of resources amongst other reasons. The implementation by the DECNR of a genuinely useful postcode is a low cost way of helping these organisations (NAS, Fire brigade etc.) maximise their efficiency and effectiveness.
In one simple example Irish Water Safety and Local Authorities are already using Loc8 codes to mark ring buoys. If a member of the public notices a damaged or missing ring buoy they can call this in exactly without confusion.
The Gardaí have also approved Loc8 code for use in their squad cars after a rigorous testing process in Templemore. The HSE also use Loc8 Code for Major Emergency Planning.
Loc8 Code – Ideal for utility company / local authority infrastructure
Eircodes are only useful when reporting issues relating to dwellings so for a lot of day to day problems experienced by utility companies or local authorities Eircodes are useless.
Using Loc8 Codes on the other hand it is possible to accurately report a dangerous pothole with 6m accuracy to your local authority, or livestock on a road, or a faulty streetlamp or a gas leak etc. The benefits of Loc8
Code for utility companies and local authorities would be immeasurable, enhancing efficiencies and enhancing safety. It provides one simple streamlined system with no need to re‐invent a system every time they need to catalogue outdoor assets.
For major emergencies such as winter’s storms Loc8 Codes are very useful making it easy to accurately report infrastructure damage and thus leading to quicker location of faults and thus quicker repairs saving time and money.
Loc8 Code – Ideal for transport companies
For the general public Loc8 Codes are ideal for identifying bus stops. For taxi services they would be invaluable for guiding taxies to a customer not located at a dwelling. And with regard to emergency access to transport infrastructure Loc8 codes are already being used for emergency access to the railway lines –.
Loc8 Code – Ideal for tourism
Because any location can have a Loc8 Code it is especially useful for tourism. Way marked trails can use the Loc8 Code to indicate points along trail or cycleway. Indeed tours could be devised that follow Loc8 Codes that would not be possible using Eircodes. For example a tour of the Wicklow mountains could start with a viewing point overlooking Dublin, then move on to the source of the River LIffey, and then move on go Glenmacnas waterfall before a visit to the round tour and lakes at Glendalough none of these attractions will ever have an Eircode.
Loc8 Code – Ideal for temporary events
There is no provision with Eircode to provide temporary postcodes to large events such as Bloom or the National Ploughing Championship. Events like this are very large shows with many hundreds of exhibitors and tens of thousands of visitors. While they may have their own system for mapping stands, using Loc8 Codes could simplify thing for them, again why invent your own system if Loc8 Codes will do the job.
Using Loc8 Codes at these events could also enhance safety as emergency services such as first aid posts or defibrillators could be highlighted with a Loc8 Code.
`Loc8 Code – Idea for wildlife surveying
The National Parks & Wildlife Services as well as multiple NGOs regularly run surveys to count wildlife or to plot invasive species etc. Using the simple consumer friendly Loc8 Code system would allow these organisations and their members conduct their surveys with greater ease. A simple code like Loc8 would also allow easier participation by the general public
Red Herrings
Some issues that may cause confusion.
Random versus Sequential versus Nested
Eircode features a routing key tied to the primary postal operator in Ireland followed by 4 random digits this allows for new postcode to be issued for a new building built in between two existing buildings.
A sequential postcode would not allow for a new postcode to be issued for a new building in‐between two existing buildings but Loc8 Code is NOT a sequential postcode. Loc8 Code is a logically assigned nested code, this means it follows simple rules to generate a code from a GPS position. So Loc8 Code will allow a new unique postcode to be issued for a new building built in between two existing buildings.
Not accurate enough
The accuracy of Loc8 Code is +/‐ 6 metres and this matches the accuracy of consumer satnav devices. There is no practical reason to have a more accurate postcode because it cannot be resolved without the use of very expensive additional equipment.
Giving a postcode to an apartment
There is no logical reason to give a postcode to every individual apartment in an apartment complex. The front door of the apartment block is the first place a delivery person will look for and once there the apartment number will suffice. Adding thousands of apartments to the databases increases the size and cost of the database for no appreciable benefit as it will not lead you further than the front door of the block. It could also lead to the bizarre situation where an actual apartment block itself would not have a postcode which would hinder location by maintenance personnel.
Giving a postcode to an individual apartment adds to public unease and could lead them to believe that Eircodes are only for collecting tax. Having multiple Eircodes for the same front door GPS position is just creating confusion and in no way adds to accuracy as the GPS location of the apartment will not be the physical location of the apartment.
Checksum doesn’t work
The checker digit in Loc8 code is not a checksum and does not work like a checksum it is designed to help identify common errors and also works when a shortened 6 digit version of the code is used.
What if you can’t self-service?
Self‐service generation of a Loc8 Code is something that has been in use for almost 5 years and over 100,000 times. Self‐service of a postcode would allow the government to save millions of euro in printing, postage and man hours. It would also allow end users to obtain their postcode in a timely manner without having to rely on someone to do it for them.
Persons unable to self‐service their own Loc8 code could receive their code in the manner similar to the way Eircodes plan to roll out to all addresses via a postcard or letter detailing your postcode. Self‐service allows the opportunity to save money and speedup a rollout but does not preclude or prevent any other method of dissemination post codes.
Essentially the DCENR should welcome and encourage as much self‐service as possible so as to reduce ongoing administration costs and speed up delivery
I don’t think it’s correct to say the database would be 2GB on a satnav. The smallest useful database comprising each Eircode and its location, would be more like 50MB on a device. That is still quite large though and bigger even than the equivalent database for UK postcodes.
There will however be problems caused by the random structure of the code in my opinion. For example, when a new house gets built it will be several months before it appears in a satnav update, If the code was structured like other countries’ codes then you could use a postcode from a neighbouring street to direct people to your new house. That will be more difficult with Eircode. I also think the public would have preferred a non random code. They would be more recognisable and easier to remember. It’s a pity there was no public consultation on this
And I doubt the satnav updates will be free or even available for that matter.
I’d say updates for integrated satnavs in cars will be pretty non existent as Ireland is such a small market. Even VW and their sister brands (which is a lot of cars) don’t even support the operating TMC
in Ireland can’t see them offering Eircode updates every 3 months unless they think their customers want to be rode for a few hundred €€€
Why don’t they use a more typical Irish rural home for the photo?
A huge, ranch style monstrosity
- with an unfinished 2 car garage
- fronted by a half-completed driveway
- a large pile of rubble
- And a deep trench where the garden wall was supposed to go.
Now *that* would be an Irish rural house.
Not so. Small stone cottage over 100 years old but we cope, and love it. Not a ‘blott on the landscape’
It’s impossible to fu#$ up, don’t be so negative it’s a good thing
like E voting machines then
Crazy waste of money to invent a system and spend 50m to 100m + when there is one already which is working available free from Loc8 (www.myloc8ion.com/) – another Fine Gael/Labour ballsup.
The Data Protection Commissioner is very worried about the new postcode system. Here’s why…
http://www.thejournal.ie/data-protection-report-1461038-May2014/
They are going to pass a law that will ban “data privacy”…. sorted :)
The system in Northern Ireland works very well, why not just replicate it across the island?
Why reinvent the wheel?
We can have better….ufortunately Eircode is not better.
check out http://www.loc8code.ie already running half a decade
I wonder will this effect house prices now. Like a house in Dublin 4 is expensive. But how will you now differentiate price wise between A67 F87DO and A67 F87D1 for example.
They have until Tuesday. I’m not holding my breath.
‘Eircodes issuing in last two weeks of June’
I don’t think so.
What again? Is this the third definite now?
I for one seriously hope it isn’t a feck up cos I seriously need it.
I work in the UK for a British company but live here and the amount of trouble I have with basic admin with both the company and my banks because I don’t have an post code is a nightmare and then if I try to buy stuff online with my UK cards its hell!!!!
Most accept 0000
Just a few have given up, especially after email sent.
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