That was my reaction too – on the face of it 1 death per 1000 doesn’t seem particularly out of the way, although I’m not sure what the equivalent figure for the general population would be.

The number of child deaths does seem quite high though – it would be interesting to know the cause of death for each of the 53.

COD unavailable. 50 deaths out of 50,000 gives a mortality rate of 0.106%, Ireland’s is 6.1%.

Michael, that’s not an entirely accurate way to present the statistics. Mortality rates are not spread evenly across age groups. Obviously it’s much higher for the elderly than young people in the general population. There certainly seems to be a disproportionally large number of deaths in the 0-5 year old age group in these data, I think that’s cause for concern. We can’t really say any more without the causes of death, but it certainly warrants further investigation.

Because an Irish town of 50,000 WOULD HAVE LOTS OF OLD PEOPLE in it.

You can sound as cold hearted as you want. Your names Nun on Yokes. You are the boss of the internet.

With a name like snooch you’re not doing too bad either! ;-)

Oh I’m just not sure anymore Mattoid! I used to just log on here, have an aul skulk around the articles, content and happy with my name as Snooch, but Nun on Yokes, thats a game changer. I now feel my name is as worthwhile as a Sinn Feiner at a Logical thinking competition.

Tip of the hat to you good Sir.

Seamus will you do my accounts for me.

I’ve heard that the Irish death rate is so high compared to asylum seekers because we play more fiddles, and the collophane dust from the bow rosin is toxic. Is that true?

This is what I’m talking about:
http://tinyurl.com/9hsaoq3

Probably because we don’t eat three meals a day

People who move to another country tend to be younger people, you don’t see many 80 year olds emigrating or even moving to a new town for that matter. Ireland’s indigenous population would include a much higher proportion of older people than the immigrant/asylum seeker population so naturally we have more older people therefore more deaths.

Because most asylum seekers aren’t three score years and ten. Simples.

That is not the way statistics work. The Irish and asylum seeker age profiles are not the same. This is why the figures are alarming and not, as others have said, lazy journalism.

Ah would you relax. It’s an article on journal.ie not a submission for analysis by a conference of overly sensitive wannabe literary critics

That’s fine if the Journal don’t want to be accepted as legitimate news source and are happy with trying to liv eup to the standard of a terrible tabloid. The same sensationalism was used in the headline in relation to womens pay.

Sorry I’m afraid to reply in detail to your comment in case I take it out of context due to that typing error in your first sentence and say something silly.

I have this policy because I understand the importance of having standards if I want my comments to be accepted as legitimate and above those of tabloid commenter’s.

Please provide me with more details or I will dismiss as lazy (or incompetent), and possibly pass on to my local school so that children can learn the importance of making sure they use words that are actual words.

If these were Irish-born children, would you really be saying that? “kids die, sh1t happens”.
Of course this deserves further exploration…Shatter should be keen to determine COD to ensure these are not preventable deaths.

The story isn’t about kids dying. It’s a pointless presentation of statistics with no further investigation or elaboration added.

only 50! these folks think that we owe them a living ! they are illegal and should be all put on a boat. we are broke we cannot afford to pay for any more social welfare costs and we have enough taxidrivers

Whats newsworthy is the fact that the biggest age group to die were the under 5s!

Agreed. The death rate for this group is lower than the national average.

Cool surname, Abi. :)

Back on point. We really cant comment further until the cause of death in the 50 plus cases is revealed. Where these childers healthy open entering state care or were they already ill with un-cureable illnesses? Tens of thousands of people die in state care, my gran :( , being one. In most, in not all, cases the state does the best they can for these people. But they cannot stave off the inevitable. We have to do two things in this life. Pay taxes and die.

Because the percentage of children who die appears to be higher than normal. That is a very good reason to find out why and see where blame lies, if anywhere.

What sort of rubbish statistics is going on here? To compare averages with the Irish population is utterly illogical because there is a different age profile. This population is much younger than the Irish population.

As for ‘these people are illegal- put them on a boat’ etc. Firstly, they are not illegal; they are in a legal process. Someone is only ‘illegal’ if they do not enter through a legal process or if they abscond following a negative result. Even then they would be no less or more illegal than the ‘undocumented’ Irish in America. Do those saying ‘send them back’ advocate the deportation of all Irish from the US and Oz in the same situation?

More importantly how do they all afford D&G sunglasses!

Who said anything about the state being at fault? COD is unavailable – you should reread the article – think you missed that!

There is also nothing to say how healthy these kids were when they arrived, how long after arrival they died, how many died from traffic accidents etc. without all the relevant information these statistics can’t be put into context.

@ michael. Yes I read the article and the first paragraph said “FIFTY THREE PEOPLE seeking asylum in Ireland have died while in State care over the past decade.” If these people died in “state care” the buck stops with them. Weather the state uses private business now a days (or religious orders in the past) these people are in care of the state. We all saw the fallout of “institutional” care in the past. I know people who have seen these centres first hand and they are now good places to live “in limbo”. I know there is no cause of death listed but those numbers are unusually high and we needs to find out WHY?? and not just stick our heads in the sand.

@ Joseph. “care of the state” should mean access to adequate health care and a safe environment. We need someone to look at the relevant information and find out why and how more deaths can be prevented in the future. the figures indicate the deaths going back 10 years, if the state looked into them in the past surely they would have some more concrete data to have a more detailed response to what happen to these people.

Mick, 50,000 refugees passed through Ireland over the past 10 years. That’s a mortality rate of approx. 0.106%. The mortality rate of Ireland stands at 6.1%. Their mortality rate is 57 times better than ours.
The COD is unavailable as the state is not allowed access the death Certs of those involved.
One third of the refugees were children, it would pass that one third of the deaths should be children – it’s not – it’s less – one quarter.
These people can have full access (same as you or I) to the health services of the HSE – there is nothing preventing them from getting appropriate care, if they needed it.
Further stats are required – and the COD’s, but that’s not available.
Mick, I think you’re baying for the blood, and any excuse to get at the state will do your cause. The fact is – we don’t know anything more than the fact that they died, so unless there is more information on the way, which I doubt, quit with the melodrama, pipe down and take a seat.

@ Michael, I work first hand in the care sector in a community “non profit” centre and I see first hand the implication of government short sighted policies. Weather it a refugee centre, care home, centre for the elderly, childcare how can you be expected to do do it with little or no support from the state. The state in this instance gives the private sector the funds to care for these people but the nature of private business is there to make “a profit” and not use all the funds to care for these people. They question has to be asked why doesn’t the state provide direct provision of these services (including childcare, elderly homes etc)- these reason is that if you want to do it “properly” it would cost more. There are plenty of unemployed professional (nurses, social workers etc.) who could run these centres on behalf of the state but no the state contracts it out to the lowest bidder. I’d listen to any point you’d make but I’d appreciate a bit of courtesy rather than some crude remark as at the end of your last comment.

Mick, I’m fully aware of how care is provided to asylum seekers, and I’m fully aware of all the organisations that provide them with care.
I agree, one death is too many, unfortunately as you know, death is an inevitable part of life. The figures, as presented here give utterly no indication as to who was at fault, or whether there was anyone at fault at all, however you have presumed that the care is at fault. It may be, I don’t know, but neither do you, or anyone else reading this article, because COD cannot be obtained.

@ Michael. I agree with you that there is no COD here but when the state contracts out these services to the private sector there should be accountability for what happens to these people by the private company and the state. If they deaths happened when the care of the HSE there would be internal investigations and reports done that would give facts to the government. This does not seem to be the case here as the government had no facts to present. My problem here is the privatisation of the care sector- it doesn’t and can’t work.

why not send them all back things have changed here , we are not as flush as we thought we were a few months ago. we cant look after our slefs.

Things will change in the U.S., Canada and Australia eventually too. What would your masterplan be for the hundreds of thousands of Irish people ‘sent back’ then?

@snooch

Illegal immigrants everywhere should be expelled from and country they are in. This includes the Irish in the USA et al.

Why we think we have a God given right to be illegal in other countries is beyond me. This ‘ahh sure they love us cos we’re the Irish and the downtrodden of the world’ seems to be the only answer thats given

I think you’ve missed the point I was trying to make there. I in no way condone being illegal in another country. I have lived abroad, legally, and experienced the attitudes of Irish people living abroad (sweeping generalisation but not uncommon). I am under no illusions about us being the Colin Farrell lookalike baby making lovable rogues we tend to see ourselves as.

Merely reflecting on Johns suggestion to ‘send them all back’ and the fact theres hundreds of thousands of Irish people working and living abroad.

Jim that is a stupid argument to make. Irish people in the likes of America have to work for every cent they get. I see African immigrants almost every day but I rarely see them in employment, strange isn’t it?

Jim that is a stupid argument to make. Irish people in the likes of America have to work for every cent they get. I see African immigrants almost every day but I rarely see them in employment, strange isn’t it?

@ him brown Are you saying that you never see people of African origin working in Ireland? you must not get out much. That statement stinks of ignorance. I’ve worked with, know, am friends with ‘African immigrants’ who are highly educated, motivated, contributors to Irish society.

you also have to bear in mind that we’re exporting a lot of shi**bags who cant even spell theyre own names on work holiday visas who wreck hostels, hostels, bars, cars and all sorts every night of the week.

Him Brown. It is illegal for Asylum Seekers to work in Ireland. Does that explain why they seem not to be working?

Maybe if they didnt have to investigate elaborate forged documents in high profile cases it might free up some of the millionaire Civil Servants time!

Wow a civil servant up at this time on a Sunday morning. You must be on overtime

Nice try but I’m not a civil servant! Stick to the point though! It’s not all one sided, no doubt we as a state could do a better job assisting asylum seekers but sometimes it’s just not as clear cut as we might think!

You work for FAS Stephen. FAS is a state agency, you are a de facto civil servant.

That’s out of date Rodger. Only worked for Fas for a while. Saw Civil servants from the inside and many barely work. Some exceptions but can guarantee people become institionalized very quickly. Most civil servants are far more worried about internal politics than doing the job they are well paid to do. Oh and as for a previous post, I never accused them of being millionaires.

Where is this Asylum centre with half of the residents are mentally ill?

I’m on your side here, I really do believe people should be treated fairly and appropriately and with human decency, but I find it really hard to believe that the ‘laboratory’ you live in is half full of mentally ill residents without proper care.

And also, I’m not sure if someone’s pointed this out to you, but referring to the people of a country your seeking asylum to as indigenous yokels probably wont help your claim.