How large is the subsidy given to greyhound racing?

Eoin and Kieran, I have already responded to all your bogus clallenges and answered all the trick questions you put to me…(see previous messages) but I emphasise, hare coursing was not banned elsewhere because muzzling wasnt’ávailable. It was outlawed on the basis of the powerful and undisputed evidence of immense cruelty. Muzzling of greyhounds here, though a complete failure in terms of protecting hares from the “sport” you people dish out to these unfortunate animals, was an important first step towards abolition. The coursing clubs were shamed into it by Tony Gregory’s Bill. The next step is to take the hare out of coursing. The NPWS reports were, I repeat, compiled by independent wildlife rangers and the scenes described are beyond dispute. You can apply for access to them under FOI as ICABS did if you wish to study them. Re GN, I have indeed been subjected to repeated vitiolic attacks of a deeply personal nature. It’s not a matter of “playing the victim”. If either of you were treated to such personal vilification I am sure you would be responding vigorously. I stand over my assertion re an ICC member making those pages from GN available to me. I will of course protect his identity because I am hopeful he will provide information of a more valuable kind in the future, such as for example the venues for any forthcoming blooding sessions. I emphasise: GN is NOT open to free public viewing, as anyone will discover if he or she tries to again access to it. I have no access whatsoever to it and would not wish to have. Re “pointless drivel”….that, lads, is what you’ll find aplenty on GN…no cogent arguments, just mud-slinging, bullying, and foul mouthed innuendo. And those guys ARE representing the hare coursing fraternity, however much you might now like to ignore that salient fact. I can see that you are rattled by the even more powerful case that can now be made against hare coursing. Face up to it. Switch to drag coursing now instead of waiting for the inevitable ban. Why not give the hares a break and you’ll redeem yourselves in the eyes of compassionate people worldwide. You don’t NEED to torment and terrorize thse timid creatures for your jollies. There’s a whole world of decency and TRUE SPORT out there for you. Embrace it…and kick the hare baiting habit. And then we can all be friends.

Are there not alternative ways to to course the dogs using man made equipement. Times change and we are supposed to be more ‘humane’ these days….such as clay pigeon shooting?

Accusing me of blatant lies is what I would expect of you, and others of the GN persuasion. Villification seems to come easily to a certain kind of coursing defender. I do not yield to such tactics, Kieran. The TRUTH hurts hare coursing. It was the truth that killed this cruel and cowardly practise in other jurisdictions, the plain truth that taking hares out of their natural habitat and using them as bait in a sick “competition” was cruel with a capital C. I did not compile the NPWS reports. There were filed by professional wildlife rangers of the Parks and Wildlife Service who are not beholden to any side in this debate. This year’s reports sound the death knell for hare coursing, the beginning of the end. The ban may come quickly, or hare coursing may suffer death by a thousand cuts. Either way, you have lost all credibility. The naked barbarism of the practise has been laid bare. Again, there are bound to be more hares in a preserve holding hares for live baiting in the period leading up to a given coursing club’ s cruelty session. That does not mean hare coursing equals more hares. In fact, previous NPWS reports have referred to coursing clubs finding it increasingly difficult to catch enough hares for their sessions. Also, the same Queens University report you have quoted contains evidence of the stress and suffering inflicted on coursing hares. You didn’t quote that of couse. Again, you are confusing conservation and animal welfare concerns. There is a crucial distinction. The objection to hare coursing is on the same grounds as that to cock fighting, dog fighting, and badger baiting, or any form of deliberate animal cruelty masquerading as “sport”. To put it another way…even if dog fighting gangs claimed there were more dogs in areas where they staged the fights, this would not be a convincing argument in defence of dog fighting. So you can see why hare coursing hasn’t a leg to stand on. Anyone who doubts that your side has lost the argument need only read the “contributions” on Greyhound Nuts. They are now targeting named campaigners with smears, fabricated allegations, and veiled threats. Bullying will work for a while, but this descent into the gutter will undermine and ultimately destroy whatever vestige of credibility your side has left. And I swear, WE didn’t invent Greyhound Nuts to make hare coursing look even worse than it is…. It REALLY is a site promoting the greyhound industry in Ireland!

There is also a danger for the dogs, many lurchers who are not good enough for coursing get dumped in rescue, or worse. They can be badly injured from trips or falls, and the high prey drive can make them difficult to rehome with families.

Kieran, I HAVE cited facts, and not just “one off” videos”. There are hundreds of videos, many as I have reminded produced by coursing clubs and fans themselves. Go to the excellent ICABS website to view some of them if you need further reminding of how cruel and perverted hare coursing is. And also the FACTS related in the NPWS reports, not just for this most recent season, but for several seasons past. You fail to explain why live coursing fans feel the profoundly unhealthy NEED to put the hare through the kind of horrific ordeal we have seen in the videos and read about in the reports. You say I don’t care about the hare population. I do, which is why I campaign for the animals’ protection, but I would not entrust the care of the hare population to people who would abuse it for “sport” in a manner that is, though you clearly cannot bear to think about this, a serious criminal offence in many other jurisdictions. In the same way, I like dogs, but I would not entrust any dog to the TLC of a dogfighting gang, no matter how much their members tried to persuade me they “cared” about the overall dog population. Likewise with badger baiting. The baiters claim, like the coursing fans, that without them the badger would die out as only badger baiters really “care” about them. Such is the twisted and transperently false logic of those who torture animals for “sport”. You are in deep denial Kieran. You refer to “extremist” animal rights people in the UK. The difference there is that while a tiny minority of animal protection campaigners might go to extremes or act outside the law…ANYONE who attends or attempts to organise a live hare coursing event over there is committing an offence. You are not comparing like with like. Your attempt to muddy the waters has backfired badly: Hare coursing is now one hundred percent linked in the public mind with criminality. Coursers are jailed or fined heavily, and then have to contend with the lifelong consequences of having criminal records. Re drag coursing…you get very hot and bothered when I draw attention to this viable and humane alternative to the deliberate cruelty to hares that live coursing involves. You try to create a gulf between different campaign groups on the issue when in fact no group in Ireland has come out against drag coursing. You are confusing concern for the welfare of greyhounds (a legitimate concern at any time) with the pursuit of a mechanical lure. Nobody is objecting to a dog running after a non live object, be it a lookalike hare or a beach ball, or any other toy. Re your throwaway remarks about school debates etc….this is not a game. It is a serious campaign to bring about the protection of the hare from people who ill-treat it on a massive scale and to horrific depths of savagery for no better reason than that they want a few laughs and a flutter on a dog. These are not conservationists. They are predatory humans who must be kept far away from the hares of this country. You say there never will be ban. I beg to differ. Your counterparts in the UK and NI said the same, and in Australia live coursing fans predicted it would never be banned…but it was. It went the way of all shameful cruelty practises. Here in Ireland, it will also some day be consigned to its rightful place in our statute books: alongside other fieldsports like dogfight, cock fighting, and badger baiting. My point about drag coursing is that, as in Australia, coursing fans will probably switch to it anyway once the cruel version is removed from the equation. So why not have the decency to stop live hare coursing now, even before a ban that will bring great shame on the whole coursing fraternity? You and your colleagues will be commended Kieran on such a decision and the unfortunate hares will have been freed from one of the most despicably evil practises ever devised by man.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL741E0B6DA3CBB057

There are all kinds of people involved in the campaign against hare coursing, and many different groups. But all of us are united in our opposition to the practise, whatever about our views on other issues. People can have widely differing views on a range of issues and agree on others. I’m sure you happen to agree with me on issues unrelated to hare coursing. There’s my answer. No fabrications Kieran. The NPWS reports clearly list instances of hares being MAULED, FORCIBLY STRUCK, PINNED TO THE GROUND or otherwise injured. They also refer to hares DYING from their injuries. It goes without saying that hares undergoing such ill-treatment at the hands of any coursing club are experiencing high stress levels and are terrified. Or would you have us believe there were having a ball? Also, the condition known as Capture Myopathy affects hares in particular. Any deeply stressful experience can kill a hare, so where does that leave coursing?

We who campaign for the protection of the innocent hare from coursing clubs are not the ones “fabricating”. Why should we? Our case is rock solid. The FOI reports are supported by videos showing what is described, and in recent times even some coursing club members who have suffered a crisis of conscience have provided the odd tip-off. By contrast, hare coursing apologists make false and crazy allegations against named campaigners such as the ludicrous “strangled hare” episode. The originator of that unfounded allegation by the way has a track record of making false allegations. Another was his claim that a named animal welfare person set her dog after a herd of goats and killed all of them. No such incident occurred. The goats never existed, and her dog is a tiny animal that wouldn’t hurt a fly. I’ve mentioned GN and the pages forwarded to me by the disgruntled ICC member. Yes. he’s given me more valuable info too, apart from the “drivel” you refer to. That other information is highly senstive and will aid the campaign. I agree with you on that point incidentally, as most of what appears on GN is indeed drivel. Your perception is improving Kieran! But there’s another site that promotes the greyhound industry, called Greyhound Data, and curiously enough many of the peoiple posting on it not only openly accept drag coursing as a humane alternative but actually look forward to the next drag season with great enthusiasm. I commend their wisdom and humanity, because live hare coursing has no future. You need only look at the many cases of coursers fined or imprisoned elsewhere to realise that this is not a normal “sport”. Did you know that in other jurisdictions, coursers sent to jail have to be segregated from other inmates for their own safety? They are also offered counselling to get them over their addiction to animal cruelty. Some “sport”!

Correction: The effects of Capture Myopathy and Stress Myopathy are scientifically proven. And the videos I referred to earlier most definitely show hares being terrorized, and those videos are supported by the details of last season’s NPWS reports. To deny that the hares terrorized and injured at the coursing events referred to in the reports came to any harm is to engage in denial and ignore the reality of what happened in those instances. If you do not approve of the word “terrorize” to describe subjecting a captive wild animal to the kind of ill-treatment evident from the reports, what words would you use? Severely frightened…over-stressed…put under immense and unacceptable pressure…? However you wish to describe it, you have to accept that causing a hare to be mauled, forcibly struck, tossed into the air like rag doll, or pinned to the ground… ALL described in the NPWS reports, most definitely amounts to terrorizing and ill-treating them. That is not my personal opinion as you suggest. It is a demonstrable fact. You dislike the use of words that describe what happens in hare coursing yet the suffering caused is clearly described in the reports’ even if you feel the need to invent new words to soften the horrors they reveal. Perhaps you have not studied the reports in enough depth. Re differing views of the various groups…there will always be different views and perspectives. Within the greyhound industry as you know there are likewise different views on all sorts of issues. Some accept the need to replace the live hare with a mechanical lure on humane grounds…others prefer to see an animal suffer and listen to its child-like screams as the dogs maul it on the coursing field. Greyhound Nuts attract a certain type of coursing fan, while the Greyhound Data site caters for a different constituency.
You seem to regard any expression of concern for the welfare of an animals as just “emotional” nonsense. If we accepted your logic Kieran we would have to scrap ALL our animal protection laws. You continue to foster the impression that opposition to the cruel practise of hare coursing is somehow irresponsible or unreasonable or a stance taken by cranks and crackpots. The police who arrest and charge hare coursing offenders in other jurisdictions might beg to differ. Have a look: http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/newsevents/newsevents-pressreleases/newsevents-pressreleases-item.htm?id=209796

Kieran and Padjoe, I have already cited the overwhelming EV IDENCE of the stress, trauma, and suffering to which hares are subjected in coursing, including the NPWS reports (not compiled by us I’ll remind you but by independent State-appointed officials), the videos (both pro and anti) that clearly show hares being injured, mauled, pinned to the ground…the evidence is quite extensive. This is not waffle or evasion, as you try desperately to allege. The truth is against you. You have lost the argument and the debate, as your counterparts have lost the debate in so many lands across the planet. All we lack is a statement from the hare himself but you’ll appreciate that he can’t speak. And that is what you guys depend on: the silence of the hare. This unfortunate animal cannot defend himself so cowardly coursing clubs can take hares for their “sport” and amusement. Padjoe, you are wrong. Greyhound Data has hare coursing people posting messages but also many people posting messages that relate to drag coursing…such as these referring to upcoming drag coursing events in parts of Australia. I mention Greyhound Nuts from time to time because it has been to the fore in underhanded actions such the poll-rigging scandal. Its attempt to rig the opinion poll on Journal.ie was exposed comprensively. The records are there for anyone to see. Also I have emphasised that the site has NEVER offered any rational defence of hare coursing, but has resorted instead to name-calling and false allegations against named individuals. I have reams of evidence to support this contention, all supplied by a man who was once as committed to hare coursing as you but has now seen the light. In recent days, the vicious name calling and character assassination has resumed in earnest on that site. I could, if called upon, produce copies of pages containing the vilest of material from site. Politicians have been shown it already. I do not have to “fight” for racing as you Kieran suggest. I mention drag coursing because is proven alternative to the use of live hares. The fact that animal protection groups are concerned about the treatment of greyhounds is another matter. Animal groups come in all shapes and sizes. Each has its own ethos and policies, but ALL are united in seeking a ban on hare coursing. Likewise, I’m sure that not all greyhound owners share the same viewpoint on every issue relating to the industry. I have seen statements on the Greyhound Data site that were bitterly critical of Greyhound Nuts as an example. Believe me, those statements shine a very interesting light on certain hare coursing apologists. But back to drag coursing…After a ban, all but the most hardened hare coursing fans will switch to this, as they have done in every situation where the option to torture and terrorize hares has been taken away from them. Why wait for the ban. You can set the wheels in motion now as men of honour and prove that you have the decency to leave the hares in peace. The hares never threatened you or your way of life. Yet you subject them to a hell on earth. And for what? A flutter and a few laughs. The Irish Hare is part of our wildlife heritage. It does not belong to coursing clubs, but to all of us.

I’m glad you are beginning, however gingerly, to at least contemplate a future situation when live coursing will no longer be an option. I cannot predict how people will behave in decades to come or how everyone will feel about drag coursing. You would need to consult a psychic to elicit information like that. It is LIVE hare coursing we seek to abolish. Drag coursing is the humane alternative to the use of live hares in coursing. I cannot speak for every group, just for the campaign groups that hold to this position.

And why do I seek to replace the live lure with a mechanical or “drag” one?

This extract from the report of the NPWS ranger on the Westmeath United LIVE hare coursing event (obtained under FOI) will serve to explain.

“There were nine hares hit on Day one. Of these, one hare was tossed and rolled on the ground; another hare was tossed and mauled; another was mauled on the ground by the two dogs and placed in a wooden box; another was hit about five times and mauled on the ground by the dogs. When the dog owners came running in, one of them grabbed the hare and lifted it away from the dogs by its side and then the steward took it from him and handled it in a more appropriate manner. The hare cried with what I presume was distress during this incident. The steward placed this hare in the wooden box. Another hare was tossed and badly mauled by the dogs later in the day. In all, three hit hares were retrieved and placed in a wooden box”.

None of this would have happened at a drag coursing event. See my point?

Kieran, you are clearly running scared at this point. Drag coursing is indeed a viable substitute for live hare coursing, and has in fact already replaced it in many countries. Contributers to the Greyhound Data forum routinely speak well of drag coursing events and the lovely time they’ve had at these outings. Re your contention that greyhounds will not take well to it, I would suggest that coursing clubs not wait around for the ban on live hare baiting before thinking about that. Now is the time to start getting the dogs used to the drag version, so the transition will be smoother for all of you. The REASON for substituting drag for live coursing is very simply a humanitarian one, as I have tried to explain to you. You need to open your heart to compassion, You cite mortality figures, but what you fail to grasp is that a hare does not need to be killed on the spot to suffer in coursing. The animals are battered by the dogs. They suffer broken bones and agonising internal internal injuries. This is FACT Kieran, not “lies” as you dare to suggest as bitterness and the realisation of defeat consumes you. Everything I have stated in relation to hare coursing is backed by evidence…the films showing cruelty by the bucketful, the NPWS reports that you gloss over because they show up the so-called case for live coursing. Most outrageous of all is your attempt to persuade people that a hare NEEDS a coursing club. No rational person believes that a hare benefits from being mauled by greyhounds on a coursing field, or pinned down, or tossed up into the air like a piece of garbage. Ill-treatment and cruelty have NOTHING TO do with conservation, which is why the prestigious Irish Wildlife Trust incidentally has now come out against live hare coursing. The IWT, with all its expertise and on the basis of years of careful research, has not taken this stance lightly. Another nail in the coffin of a vile so-called “sport” that cries out for abolition. You say I have lost the argument Kieran? Pull the other one. Your side had this debate lost after the first half dozen posts. You continue to engage me in this tit for that exchange because you and your fellow live coursing fans haven’t a leg to stand on. Strip away all your waffle and bluster and what remains is the spectre of a terrified hare being battered and mauled and made cry like like a baby…for the sick pleasure of humans. And that’s no lie Kieran!

Anything with the label “sport” that hurts those without signing up for the so-called “sport” is wrong, whether they be human, hare etc. This is just petty and cruel and in no way a real sport where there is a challenge. What is the challenge in a human attacking a hare?

I note your admission that you are “part of a coursing club”. That explains your inability to grasp the appalling suffering caused to the hares in this pathetic excuse for a “sport”. You need to emerge from denial and allow the hares to run free. They don’t deserve the sickening cruelty that coursing clubs dish to them for a cheap thrill.

I cannot speak for ARAN, and I have no business speculating on how it might or might not respond to any given situation in the future. You would need to address that question to ARAN. I can see that you wish to create division between groups…the oldest trick in the book. I could equally ask you to condemn the thuggish behavior of coursing fans and the vitriolic outpourings on that internet site devoted to the greyhound industry. Or to distance yourself from foxhunting. Instead I confine myself to the issue.

I have no idea how you conjured up the notion that a hare’s physiology and neurology” are “against me”. I have not contested any scientifically proven fact concerning hares. But neither can you twist science in defence of proven animal cruelty. Capture Myopathy is a fact, as is the sad reality that the hares that get mauled or battered or tossed about by the dogs DO SUFFER AGONISING PAIN.

Or would you have us believe that those child-like screams of the hare on the coursing field are really cries of delight or joy? Maybe they are just loving it, as a former ICC Secretary once claimed in a debate. The karate chops…on many videos the so-called “dispatchers” (had you forgotten THEM?) can be seen brutally beating injured hares to finish them off. How dare you suggest I made it up, when you must know as someone involved in hare coursing that this happens at meetings nationwide.

The videos of hare coursing made by your own supporters are against you. The NPWS reports are against you. Compassion itself is against you. Every decent human being favours a ban on hare coursing, in both rural and urban Ireland. If you cannot see what is wrong with subjecting a timid and harmless animal to what happens in coursing you need to take a close at yourself and your concept of human decency.

A hare that lives free from the cruelty of live coursing, from the netmen and the men with pairs of dogs to terrorize it is MOST DEFINITELY better off than a hare that is at the mercy of such people. To claim otherwise is to invite the same ridicule that greeted past claims from your camp that the hare ENJOYS coursing. You accuse me of “lies”, yet my case against hare coursing rock sold and backed by both visual and documentary evidence. It is that claim that hare coursing is cruelty-free is the greatest lie of all. One that nobody believes, surely not even the coursing clubs themselves.

Again coursing clubs do not exist to benefit the hare in any way whatsoever. Coursing clubs take hares for their own twisted purposes, namely to set them up as bait for pairs of dogs to chase in wired enclosures. The fact that they inject them and give them some food in captivity does not entitle the clubs to claim a humanitarian mantle. Live coursing, I have to remind you again, is a serious criminal offence in many jurisdictions…for the reasons I have already listed. We are not talking about tennis or Tiddywinks here…but organised animal cruelty.

Not only do animal welfare groups call for its abolition, but conservationists too, a fact about which you have been remarkably silent.

Re your concerns about coursing greyhounds not wishing to chase a none live lure. Another reason why clubs should begin the transition to drag coursing NOW, so that when the ban comes, they’ll have dogs that WILL settle in to drag coursing. Perhaps a year or two might have to pass before you have dogs that will perform in that way. It’s a very minor consideration. Another option would be to retire or re-home all dogs that have been hyped up on live coursing (or blooded etc) and begin the training of greyhounds specifically for drag coursing. Again. these are just minor distractions. Other countries adapted to the change, so will we.

What’s important is that the horrific cruelty that has passed for “sport” on the coursing fields be consigned to the dustbin of history.

Kieran, the evidence is against you on all fronts…cruelty to animals and conservation are distinctly different issues. Hare coursing is by definition cruelty to animals and is for reason banned in most countries. The recent NPWS reports support the evidence of the numerous videos showing hares being battered, mauled, and otherwise injured at these baiting events. Hares thrive in counties that don’t have coursing clubs, so even that feeble argument in defence of the practise, ie. that though the clubs abuse animals they help to keep the numbers up…falls down completely. Hares are as numerous in Counties Wicklow or Longford as in Clare. The absence of coursing clubs to capture them for LIVE BAITING in those counties doesn’t seem to bother the animals. Sandra is right. This should have been banned years ago, and by the way I’ve seen the latest bullying garbage on the GN site. It has been carefully filed away so that the politicians can see the kind of people who now act as official mouthpieces for hare coursing. Those people seem to think that I and others who speak the truth about what coursing clubs are doing can be BULLIED into silence or frightened off with slanderous allegations. We will continue until hare coursing has been made a criminal offence in Ireland.

I am perfectly entitled to let other groups know about developments in the campaign. How that can be equated with failing is a mystery to me. You have likewise been in contact with others.

Your question is obviously a trick one, since the group you refer to has not indicated in any way that it opposes drag coursing. It does oppose live hare coursing and has expressed concern about the fate of greyhounds also. The future situation you allude to exists only in your own imagination.

I have answered your question. You have yet to declare which of the coursing clubs named in the NPWS reports ought to be disbanded.

I notice that the REAL losers…the pathetic “contributers” on Greyhound Nuts are again resorting to name-calling and mud-slinging. A sure sign they know they’re losing. Here is what one sad individual spat out in his rage against me:

“Yeah Tom a fool and a village idiot all rammed into one. Surprising how the good people of Callan have tolerated the bad name he is giving the village for so long but apparently he doesn’t socialise there as he knows he is not very welcome in the local watering holes .No wonder he said he was lonely but he has only himself to blame for being such an nuisance”

As with your own deluded defence of hare coursing, these people have no problem dreaming up all sorts of garbage to discredit those who demolish their arguments. I have not given my home town a “bad name” as that person maliciously claims, and I have not the slightest problem about calling into any pub in the town. I have had number of books on the heritage and history of Callan published the book launches were well attended. What an underhanded tactic, and in all in response to my having demolished those sick excuses for hare coursing cruelty.

The spiteful and hate-generating nature of the ongoing commentary on GN, which relates directly to what is being debated here, speaks volumes about the calibre of person that condones or is actively involved in hare coursing. I suppose it shouldn’t surprise me that those who get their kicks from the kind of cruelty exposed in the NPWS reports will also be capable of character assassination.

Kieran’s “case” for hare coursing goes something like this: The horrific, well documented, conclusively PROVEN cruelty of the practise is REALLY a roundabout way of “conserving” the animals.
Monty Phyton couldn’t have come up with a more offbeat or unbelievable excuse for hare coursing!

Well, here’s how coursing clubs “help” hares…how they “conserve” and “care for” them. I don’t know about Kieran, but I certainly wouldn’t want people like that “caring” for me…
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL741E0B6DA3CBB057

I have answered all Kieran’s questions and demolished ALL his fallacious arguments (see previous posts), but because my answers have not been to his liking he shrieks “liar!” I have given my views very clearly on drag coursing, but I cannot answer for every other group. What I do know is that no group has objected to this humane alternative. What they object is any ill-treatment of greyhounds, which is a different concern and issue, and one that even Kieran himself would have to agree with us on.

Kieran has sought, unfairly, to misrepresent the FACTS I have cited as “lies”. I can vouch for every single assertion I have made.

This is typical of coursing fans. They have to resort to name-calling, changing the subject, and crude hectoring tactics to cloud over their complete lack of any excuse for what they do to those unfortunate animals.
Kieran, in his deluded support for this appalling practise, claims that I have been “easy pickings” for his wit and debating skills. A look back at previous posts will demonstrate just how deluded this claim is. He has been soundly thrashed every step of the way.

Unfortunately, coursing clubs routinely also regard the hare population as “easy pickings”. I and other campaigners can respond to their crass nonsense. The hares have no defence. They are at the mercy of these people whose weird claim to “care” for them is quite disturbing when one thinks of it.

Kieran has tried to drive a wedge between the different animal protection groups by probing for differing stances on issues. While animal groups all have their own distinct ethos and policy positions, I can assure him that all have one objective in common: a complete ban on hare coursing.

Now, Kieran, here again are some examples of the “sport” you seek to defend…will you call for the disbandment of ALL the coursing clubs named in the NPWS reports?
Here is what the NPWS reports had to say about some of last season’s hare coursing events. And this, Kieran, is what you expect us to accept as a SPORTING ACTIVITY??

Ennis/Clarecastle, December 10/11, 2011
According to ranger’s report, on day one, five hares were hit, with three dying
in the escape after coursing. On day two, seven hares were hit, two killed, four
injured, one put down and two died from injuries. This amounts to a total of
eight fatalities.

Gorey, Co. Wexford, 29/30 October, 2011
Over the two days of coursing sixteen hares were hit by dogs, with nine pinned
and seven dying of their injuries, according to NPWS ranger’s report.

Listowel, Co. Kerry, Oct 12/13, 2011
Seven hares hit by greyhounds, three killed, three injured and two put down because of
injuries, plus one died in coursing compound. A total of seven fatalities.

Millstreet, Co. Cork, December 30/31, 2012
Three hares were hit by dogs, three hares were dead at end of coursing. Ranger
noted that “a number of hares (at least three, probably more) had
conjunctivitis, as confirmed by Vet. At least nine hares had foot injuries.”

Murrintown, Wexford, 26/27 December, 2011
Ranger reported six hares hit by muzzled dogs on Day two, with six injured and
two killed. Meanwhile veterinary report cited twelve hares unfit for coursing,
four hares injured and sixteen “sick or otherwise unfit” after coursing.
According to this coursing club’s Hare Capture Return, eighty-six hares were
captured for coursing. However a figure of seventy-five was cited at the start of
coursing on day one, leaving a discrepancy of eleven hares. In a memo from the
ranger to his superior, he cited that the club informed him that they
had a “break in on their hare paddock” and that “eight hares were missing
and three killed”.

Tradaree, Co. Clare November 12/13, 2011, 2011
On day one, two hares were hit and one killed. On day two, ranger noted that four
hares had died overnight and one after coursing. Vet’s report stated that
nine hares were “unfit for coursing, one injured and one unfit after coursing.

Thurles & District, Co. Tipperary, 29/30, October, 2011
Ten hares hit over the two days, two hares killed, two injured and two died
overnight in coursing compound.

Kilflynn, Co. Kerry, October 1 & 2, 2011
Twleve hares hit by dogs, three hares killed, three died of “natural causes”, one
injured and one put down because of injuries.

Sevenhouses, Co. Kilkenny, January 14/15
Twelve hares hit by muzzled dogs, one killed, four injured and one put down because
of injuries.

Lixnaw, Co. Kerry, November 4/5/6, 2011
Two hares hit by greyhounds, one killed and one died of “natural causes”.

Parksgrove, North Kilkenny, December 26/27, 2011
Thirteen hares hit by muzzled dogs, two killed two put down because of injuries,
with two “escaped”.

Mitchelstown, Co. Cork, November 5/6, 2011
Seven hares hit by dogs, three injured and two put down as a result of their
injuries, plus one found dead in escape.

Abbeydorney, Co. Kerry, October 22/23, 2011
Six hares hit by greyhounds, one killed.

Limerick City, November 5/6, 2011
Ten hares struck by greyhounds, with four injured and one put down because of
injuries, one “escaped”.

Enniscorthy, Co. Wexford, November 26/27, 2011
Seven hares struck by greyhounds with three injured.

Balbriggan, Co. Dublin, November 26/27, 2011
Nine hares hit, one injured, according to NPWS ranger, with vet’s report
stating that two hares were injured and two “sick or otherwise unfit” after
coursing, and ICC control steward stating that one died of natural causes,
and one injured hare released.

Westmeath United, October 15/16, 2011
Ranger described coursing as follows: “There were nine hares hit on Day one.
Of these, one hare was tossed and rolled on the ground; another hare was
tossed and mauled; another was mauled on the ground by the two dogs and
placed in a wooden box; another was hit about five times and mauled on
the ground by the dogs. When the dog owners came running in, one of them
grabbed the hare and lifted it away from the dogs by its side and then
the steward took it from him and handled it in a more appropriate
manner. The hare cried with what I presume was distress during this
incident. The steward placed this hare in the wooden box. Another hare
was tossed and badly mauled by the dogs later in the day. In all, three hit
hares were retrieved and placed in a wooden box”. The box was subsequently
taken away by the vet, who stated in his report that one died and two were
released.

Fermoy, Co. Cork, October 19/20, 2011
Six hares hit by muzzled dogs, one injured and one put down because of
injuries, with the ranger being informed that a hare was found dead the
morning after in the escape. Vet’s report stated that five hares were
injured (four more than ranger stated) with one hare euthanised.

Ballyduff, Co. Kerry, November 18/19, 2011
Four hares hit by dogs, and one died of “natural causes”.

Ballyheighue, Co. Kerry, October 14/15/16, 2011
Ranger didn’t attend on Day one. Four hares struck over two days, with one hare
killed and one dying of “natural causes”.

Limerick Regional, Clarina, October 15/16, 2012
Fifteen hares hit by dogs, five “pinned” and ten “tipped”, five injured and two died
of injuries. Ranger stated that a post mortem was sought on the hares
that died, with his line manager requesting via a note on the form the
findings of the post mortem, stating “I presume it was internal injuries
rather than muzzles coming off?” Ranger noted “Yes – muzzles did not
come off.”

Ballinaboola, New Ross, Co. Wexford, October 8/9, 2011
Fourteen hares hit by dogs, fourteen hares injured, one killed and one died from
injuries.

Loughrea, Co. Galway, October 22/23, 2011
Fourteen hares hit by muzzled dogs, with three put down because of injuries. It
was noted that three hares were “unaccounted for” on release.

Glin, Co. Limerick, October 7/8/9, 2011
Ranger stated that two hares were killed.

Nenagh, Co. Tipperary, December 17/18, 2011
Four hares hit by muzzled dogs.

Mallow, Co. Cork, October 22/23, 2011
Nine hares hit by muzzled dogs, and one “escaped” from paddock.

Galway & Oranmore, Nov 10 & 11, 2011
Ten hares hit, four pinned.

Charleville, Co. Cork, Oct 29/30,2011
Five hares hit. It was stated that no vet was present, but on call, while
the ICC control steward said there was veterinary involvement. The vet
completed a veterinary report, despite not being present.

Castleisland, Co.Kerry, October 30/31, 2011
One hare hit by muzzled dogs.

Castletown-Geoghegan, Co. Westmeath, December 17/18, 2011
Six hares hit by muzzled dogs, with one “bad grazing”. Vet stated two hares
were injured.

East Donegal, December 3 and 4, 2011
Ranger stated one hare hit, one injured and died from injury.

Correction: The case against hare coursing is not “delusional”. It is based on animal welfare concerns of the kind that led to the abolition of similar “sports” such as cock fighting, dog fighting, and badger baiting. The muzzling of greyhounds was supposed to end the cruelty of the practise. It didn’t, as the latest NPWS reports clearly show, and the numerous videos of these events, including ones produced by diehard fans of the practise. Re conservation: It cannot be emphasised strongly enough that coursing clubs do not exist to look after hares. Their purpose is to arrange animal baiting events in which captive hares are used as live bait to be terrorized and very often horribly injured by greyhounds by mauling, tossing, striking, or pinning. Fact. Coursing clubs are most definitely NOT into the TLC business. Dog fighters also claim to “look after” the dogs BEFORE the fights, and cockfighters always claimed to be concerned about the upkeep of their roosters. It’s all part of the denial and self-delusion that such people find necessary to sustain their commitment to what is, in fact, animal cruelty at its worst. It amazes me that some coursing fans will insist they “love the hare” even as they stand watching the poor animal being made to suffer for their cheap thrills. They will point to a hare that is being remorsely mauled and battered and say “I love that hare”. But who believes this? The opinion polls have shown that the vast majority of the Irish people reject that chilling “viewpoint”. I stand over my comments concerning the aftermath of a hare coursing ban. The idea that a coursing club should in any way be entrusted with the welafre of hares is stomach-churning, One does not entrust a victim to his abuser. That’s a self-evident truth that applies in all situations. Conservation of the hare should on no account be the responsibility of any hare coursing club. Others, including animal protection and wildlife groups, will address that issue. Re. drag coursing v use of live hares: Naturally not many live hare coursing fans are attending drag coursing events right now because they are permitted to use hares. But once you take away the option of being able to abuse these timid creatures for fun fans will inevitably see the light and watch greyhounds chase the drag. Predictions of economic disaster in the wake of a hare coursing ban are pure fantasy and another ploy by the hare-baiters to give themselves a pathetic fig leaf of credibility. There is not one square mile of rural Ireland that is dependent for its economic wellbeing on the cruel abuse of the hare. You insult the intelligence of country folk with such nonsense. A switch to drag coursing would ensure that the pairs of dogs that once chased a hare could still enjoy a test of speed and stamina and all the fun, gambling, and drinking sessions etc. Any coursing fan who actually admits that he’d prefer to see an animal suffer terror and appalling injury than to see a cruelty-free course is admitting to sadism. Simple and sad as that. RISE and its “educational projects”? That organization is a busted flush. It failed to prevent the staghunt ban and failed again in its botched attempt to have the ban reversed. If it tries to get into schools to promote hare coursing it will be resisted again and exposed for attempting to undertake such a sinister and ethically regressive project. Again, I would remind you that we are talking here about a practise that is a serious CRIMINAL OFFENCE in so many countries. Not only are people fined or jailed elsewhere for doing what you deem “sport”. Their cars are crushed and they can be banned from even owning dogs! Wake up lads. The world is moving on and you are still wallowing in a murky, shameful past.

The idea that watching a living creature run in terror for it’s life is enjoyable to the creature is ludicrious. The fact that it is enjoyable to the spectators says more about them than they realize. In a hundred years it will be seen with the same disgust that we now look back on crowds enjoying hangings and beheading.

It’s a disgusting and pathetic ‘sport’ and anyone that thinks otherwise are only fooling themselves..

What I mean to say is that as a human you are pushing others into a “sport”. Would you force your own child to do this? If the answer is no, then you must realise that it’s cruel. If the answer is yes, I hope someone rings child protection services.

Kieran, you draw attention to facts and figures that are irrelevent to the question as to whether hare coursing is unacceptably cruel…live hare coursing clubs are not in the conservation business. They take hares into captivity for baiting…to make them “perform” in a situation that will inevitably expose the animals to unnecessary pain and suffering. If anything, subjecting a hare to painful internal injuries is WORSE than killing it outright.

Re hares needing a coursing club…you may as well claim dogs need dog fighting gangs or the farmyard rooster “needs” cockfighting. You are wallowing deeper into denial. You just can’t accept the truth that stares you in face: That hare coursing is beyond defending. The cruelty issue aside, hares in counties with no coursing eg Wicklow, Longford, Monaghan, Leitrim) do just fine. The only thing they’re missing are those “caring” fellows with their nets and pairs of hyped-up dogs. They “miss out” on being used as live bait in a betting game…and having to run for their lives. They miss being karate chopped after dogs have battered themn into the ground. Coursing fans claim hares “enjoy” all that, but there is no scientific evidence to support that wacky claim. Don’t be a loser Kieran. Join the winning team and turn your back on these people.

You are again seeking to dodge the issue of the humane alternative and its huge appeal among people who once swore by live coursing. The Greyhound Data forums are overflowing with postings from “doggie” men and women who have no problem with drag coursing. Coursing fans here will accept it also after they’ve had chance to enjoy a cruelty-free sport, as distinct from the stomach-churning savagery dished out to the unfortunate hares in the present set-up. I cannot speak for other groups, any more than you wish to speak for the “writers” on Greyhound Nuts.

Re glass on fields and strangled hares etc. No anti-hare coursing campaigner has EVER been convicted of damaging the property of coursing clubs or coursing fans. FACT. A member of a county Cork based coursing club was however convicted of burning haybarns belonging to coursing people. He had also sent letters to the people involved pretending to be an anti-coursing person. FACT. That case was covered in four national newspapers at the time. I also give it attention in my book Bad Hare Days. The “glass on fields caper” was undoubtedly the result of infighting among rival coursing clubs. Certainly, no opponent of the bloodsport has ever been convicted of that offence. The “strangled hare” nonsense I have already comprehensively debunked. Another example of coursing “sportspeople” getting up to their antics and then blaming it someone else. I referred to the Irish Wildlife Trust coming out on the hare coursing issue. Even if you reject everything I have said here, you will have to take on board what that highly reputable body has to say on the subject:

http://iwt.ie/2012/02/iwt-calls-for-an-end-to-hare-coursing/

I advocate an end to ill- treatment of greyhounds in racing, and a ban on LIVE hare coursing. I have never opposed a dog chasing a mechanical lure, any more than I would object to a dog chasing a beech ball.

For those unfamilar with drag coursing, here is the site of the National Coursing Association of Victoria. My point is: these coursing clubs can get along without il-treating and terrorizing hares, why can’t the ones here do likewise?

http://www.ncavictoria.org/

Correction: We are not dealing with “just a few videos”…there are hundreds of them, all showing hares being savaged and horribly injured, and what is very important to note, MANY OF THE VIDEOS ARE ONES PRODUCED BY COURSING CLUBS AND COURSING FANS. Also, the recent NPWS reports tell the same story…showing up the reality of what happens at live hare coursing meetings.

The professional opinion polls covered rural as well as urban Ireland, so it is evident that opposition to the deliberate and organised cruelty of hare coursing cuts across the so-called urban-rural divide.

Re numbers at the Clonmel hare coursing event…many of these, apart from reps from every coursing club in Ireland, are from countries where the same so-called “sport” is a criminal offence, so you might say they fancy a little “cruelty tourism”.

After hare coursing is banned, the hare population can be looked after properly, not by predatory humans who pretend to “love” them when in fact they capture the animals for live baiting sessions and to watch them being terrorized and battered to appalling injury for fun. If necessary, animal protection and wildlife groups will create preserves or sanctuaries to care for the hares…not, as in the case of coursing clubs, to “groom” them for horrific torture, but to ensure their genuine protection and welfare.

There is no need nor any justification for using live hares in coursing when, as I have tried to explain to you, drag coursing offers EVERYTHING that live coursing has…EXCEPT THE CRUELTY.

Just seen another report on how hare coursing is viewed and tackled in another jurisdiction.
http://www.scottishspca.org/news/311_three-convicted-of-hare-coursing

A belief that is evidenced-based, Eoin, unlike the often repeated claim by coursing people that “the hare enjoys being coursed” and that “hare coursing clubs no not like to see hares killed or injured and we only want to conserve them”. There is no evidence that hares enjoy being mauled or forcibly struck by greyhounds, or subjected to any of the other delights that their “friends” prepare for them. If the case against hare coursing were merely a madcap rant as you allege, it would not have persudaed the parliaments of so many nations to outlaw the blood sport, including our neighbours up north for whom opposition to hare coursing has proven to be a unifying force…bringing nationalists and unionists together in defence of the humble hare from animal baiters that claim (chillingly) to “love” them. The Arctic hare survives without the “help” of organised animal baiting clubs, and so will the Irish Hare. Maybe the hares will miss those lovely lads who set pairs of hyped-up dogs after them? I doubt it very much. Eoin, you lost this debate years ago, and evidence of how just desperate the coursing side is right now can be gleaned from the vitriolic offerings on the Greyhound Nuts site: They’ve reverted again to vicious name-calling and cowardly, unfounded allegations. For example, I was unfairly dismissed from a Co-op in the mid 1980s because of my stance against hare coursing. I took a case to the Employment Appeals Tribunal and won it. These people on the site in question now claim there was no such case and no record of it, and that my account of it in Bad Hare Days (my book on the anti hare coursing campaign) is therefore fiction. In fact, the case received front page coverage in the Evening Press at the time (heading: “Anti Coursing man wrongly fired”) and in any event I have the transcripts of the case. I only mention this to show that pro-hare coursing people are now resorting to profoundly underhanded tactics in their efforts to bully opponents into silence. The old “if you can’t get the ball, get the man” tactic. In that they will fail. The campaign will continue until hare coursing has been eradicated from every part of this beautiful island.

I note you comment Eoin that the “ICC has nothing to do with Greyhound Nuts”. Given the site’s recent content I suppose I can appreciate that the PR gurus in the coursing fraternity are now taking a different view of the situation. The site is NOT open to the public as you claim, unless that policy has changed in the past twleve hours. I have seen pages from it only because these have given passed to me by an ICC member who is appalled at the low standards evident on the site.

I reiterate that drag coursing, in which a non-live lure is used, replicates all the action associated with live coursing EXCEPT THE CRUELTY. It follows that the hardcore elements who insist on see live hares being terrorized and subjected to horrific injuries (as can be seen in the videos made by pro and anti hare coursing people alike) simply wish to see animals ill-treated. Otherwise they would follow the example of coursing clubs elsewhere that have accepted the humane alternative.

Your comments on foxes and mink are farcical. You might as well call for the culling of all car drivers that accidentally drive over hares. The fact that hares face other challenges in the wild does not in any way detract from the cruelty of hare coursing.

Re “hare stranglers”. I did not lose any debate on that issue: Two students filmed the aftermath of a blooding incident in Clonmel, and because the culprit could not be identified (though we know it happened on coursing club grounds), pro-coursing people desperately tried to allege that the “antis” did it to make coursing look bad. In fact, no evidence has EVER been produced in support of that claim, whereas ALL the evidence points to coursing fans being responsible, as they have been responsible for the agonised deaths of countless thousands of other hares at venues nationwide. UTube is awash with videos showing such cruelty. Anyone who doubts who was behind that one specific incident need only look at those other films, many produced by coursing fans or coursing clubs, and see these “sportsmen” in action.

A referendum on hare coursing would be welcome, to let the people decide. Unfortunately we only have referenda to decide on issues relating to the constitution. A pity, because I have no doubt but that all the professional opinion polls would be proven correct and that hare coursing would be banished from our society.

A dog is a pig is a rat is a boy. You wouldn’t put a human through this so why a hare, who has the same nerve endings to feel pain and the same glands to cause fear.

I have indeded researched this subject in great depth….which is why I can argue with confidence for an outright ban on hare coursing (research in other countries also exposed the barbarity of the practise) and am not hoodwinked by all that “coursing club love the hare garbage”. Of course hares would be more plentiful for a few days on a preserve run by, or on behalf of, a coursing club that was grooming those animals for torture….in the days leading up to baiting day. But those hares could have come from anywhere, before being herded into a particular spot in preparation for use as live bait. To suggest that the hare population would be in dire trouble without coursing clubs is a bit like saying that Limerick NEEDS drug gangs. Kerry has something like eight coursing clubs, Wicklow has none…yet nobody would seriously suggest that hares in Wicklow are somehow “missing out” on anything…apart from the experience of being rounded by gangs of stick-wielding “sportsmen” with nets, and then made to “perform” for gangs of gamblers and assorted thrill seekers who get their kicks from cruelty. Re sanctuaries or preserves, and other measures that MIGHT at some stage, be necessary to safeguard the hare population, I would strongly support the imposition of a massive levy on coursing clubs, and on all greyhound owners, after the ban. This would penalise them for their decades of ill-treating hares for fun….but more importantly the money raised would also aid a true conservation process, because true conservation has nothing to with torturing or terrorizing animals for “sport”. You accuse me of “rambling”, but you and your colleagues have shirked the central question: why do you insist on putting hares through an absolutely horrific ordeal (all the evidence and research shows that this is so), casually stand around watching this as if it were perfectly normal; laugh and joke and cheer as the terrified hares are hounded for your entertainment…and THEN have the nerve to claim that you are HELPING hares? That claim has as much credibility as Minister McEntee’s Monty Python-like assertion that “the hare comes to no harm” in coursing. After hare coursing has been banned, I would imagine numerous articles and books will be written about this shameful episide in our history, and satirists will have plenty of material to draw upon in sending up the ludicrous arguments made in defence of this perversion that gives “sport” a ban name.

Correction: greyhound racing and drag coursing are different activities. I can see you fear the mention of drag coursing because you know it will offer you everything that live coursing has to offer…minus the cruelty. And that is the crux of the matter. Nobody in Australia is lobbying for a return to the bad old days when live coursing was legal there. Far from it. The entire greyhound industry “down under” is anxious to completely dissociate itself from that shameful past and to emphasise that live coursing has been banished forever from every state of Australia. To be fair to them, the ex-hare coursers there have accepted what their counterparts here in Ireland will some day also have to take on board: that using these beautiful animals as LIVE BAIT in a perverted bloodsport is no longer acceptable in today’s world. Fair play to the Australians.And to all the nations that have to date legislated against the use of hares for such a twisted form of “entertainment”.

It is a sad fact that some people cannot be content with greyhounds competing…they NEED to see an animal suffer. They have to stand there and watch a hare running for its life, knowing that the animal is being exposed to horrific injuries for no better reason than a gamble and laugh. Yes. the hare faces other challenges in the wild, but the fact that urbanisation and loss of habitat pose a threat to the hare does not remotely justify coursing clubs using these animals for their “sport”. Likewise the fact that hares may be knocked down by cars does not in the slightest degree detract from the horror of what a coursing club does to hares. These are seperate issues unrelated to the question as to whether organised horrific cruelty to hares is acceptable in our society

Apologists for hare coursing seek to blur the issue by pointing to unrelated factors such as these. It’s a bit like when a man on trial for alleged burglery shrieks: “but why I should be here…look at the other crimes being committed…what about so and so down the road who’s worse than a burgler”. To suggest that if we don’t allow a coursing club to terrorize a hare for sport the animal will be losing out in some way is so absolutely ludicrous that I really doubt if even coursing diehards could possibly believe it.

Pointing the finger elsewhere is what hare coursing fans do best. They cannot address the real and decisive issue…the obscene cruelty to animals that is at the heart of their “sport”, so they must attack campaigners and engage in silly name-calling as on GN and to an extent on this site. I have been subjected to all sorts of jibes and false allegations, including the claim that I had some kind of nasty grudge against the Catholic Church. I have in turn refuted all of these slurs and sent the false accusers skulking back to their lairs. Any underhanded tactic will suffuce for the hare coursing defender when it comes to deflecting attention from the squalid practise he seeks to defend.

FACT: The hare courser is not a conservationist. Animal baiting is NOT a conservationist activity.

Your claim that supporting what hare coursers do would be good for my conscience but not for my pockets is bizarre. I can tell you I do not profit from opposing hare coursing, as you would know if you had read Bad Hare Days, and my conscience is a lot clearer than that of someone for example who devotes his life to one of the worst forms of animal cruelty ever conceived by man.

But let the camera show hare coursing for what it is…here is a hare undergoing what coursing fans call “sport” …at the showpiece Irish Cup event on Limerick racecourse last February. This was one of many hares subjected to an ordeal that cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, be called “sport”….the NPWS reports detail many more, and not ONE of the defenders of hare coursing in this debate could bring himself to distance himself from the coursing clubs involved and named in the reports…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2qweeCjHRI

By contrast, and on a positive note, here is a report on the joyous and life-enhancing news last year that this sickening and evil practise had been outlawed in the North.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJDD3lV6IYI

Kieran, it is the points- and unfounded allegations -coming from you that have been refuted, one after another. I have not only dealt with every piece of nonsense you threw at me…You were completely routed, and you still cannot address the cruelty issue, or bring yourself to as much as utter a word of criticism against even one of the coursing clubs named in the NPWS reports. Drag coursing is drag coursing, not greyhound racing. It is coursing without hares and without cruelty and, for reasons that I will never fathom, there are people who regard a sport without animal cruelty in it as boring and of no interest. If drag coursing can be taken on board by ex-hare coursers in other nations it most certainly can replace the horrific animal baiting events here also. That silly excuse about greyhounds not being willing to chase a non-live lure fools nobody. You can train them differently once the live version is taken out of the equation. Again, this has all happened elsewhere. If you find it difficult to grasp why so many people object to what you think of as “sport”, I suggest you go back and have a look at the Irish Cup video…look at it and weep for shame Kieran, because that is what coursing clubs do to hares, for all their talk and self-delusory PR spiffs about conservation and loving the animal. You’ve been pinned down and badly mauled, Kieran. Where’s the dispatcher?

That photo alone turns my stomach to stone, you can see how aggressively the poor animal is being held.

Kieran, for a man who says he dislikes waffling you do a fair amount of it. Your evasive hectoring and side-swiping cannot cloud over the fact that hares continue to be mauled, pinned down, injured, and yes, terrorized in live coursing. I have answered those questions you allege I haven’t answered. I would remind you that this debate is about the NPWS reports that reveal many hare “hits”, maulings, etc…what muzzling was supoosed to eliminate from coursing but didn’t. Your attempt to bring horse racing into this discussion it is pathetic. Why don’t you waffle on about hurling or the bank-bail out or Jedward’s prospects in the Eurovision while you’re at it?

Being struck by a greyhound is no mere slap on the wrist for a hare. You’re talking broken bones and other internal injuries. It doesn’t MATTER whether a coursing club takes pleasure in the cruelty and suffering or just sees it as an unfortunate side effect of a day’s sport. It’s still cruelty and the hare still suffers.

I note you will NOT distance yourself from any coursing event named in the NPWS reports. What a chilling admission. This is where you lose the debate big time. You badger me to disown some other group you THINK might not approve of drag coursing at some possible future date…and yet you cannot bring yourself to show compassion for the hares in even one instance highlighted in the reports. Is saving face more important for a coursing club than looking after hares? Well, given what coursing clubs do to hares for “sport” maybe I shoudn’t expect any great solicitude in that quarter. I notice you went quiet when I mentioned the dispatchers. What marvellous friends of the hares those fellows are, what?

I have not called you a “sick person” Kieran, but can you not see why so many people out there think of you that way when they look at the horrific practise you continue to support, namely live hare coursing? I wouldn’t say you were sick, just misguided. If you switch to drag coursing, however, you will find that your PR problems will melt like snow in the morning sunshine. Leave the hares alone and you’ll be pleasantly surprised at how attitudes change. Trust me, Kieran, they’ll get along fine without a coursing club to bring them the “gift” of a mauling or a broken neck, or a leg ripped off. Or stress-related death post-coursing. It’s not only this year’s NPWS reports Kieran…reports for the past four years tell a similar tale of gut-wrenching horror. Face your demons Kieran. When you drop your support for hare coursing you’ll feel as though a great weight, a terrible burden, has dropped from you. You’ll be new man, like the ICC member who’s passing on the GN pages, and I don’t mean that in a condescending way. You need to open your mind to a world without hare coursing. I don’t want to sound as if I’m lecturing you, but I can detect a spark of potential in you Kieran. I personally know of ex-hare coursing fans who have “walked the road to Damascus”. Others, while not completely forsaking the practise, have provided valuable information to our cause, occasional tip-offs. Every little helps.

Padjoe, the evidence clearly shows that hares are subjected to injury and unnecessary suffering in coursing, as both films and the NPWS reports show very clearly. The reason I repeat this is because supporters of hare coursing repeat their claims and arguments. This is simply fact. I am all in favour of preserving traditions, but not at any cost. Setting up hares as live bait for dogs has nothing to do with conservation, even if you happen to feed the hares while in captivity. I don’t have a hang-up about GN. My problem with that site is that certain people are using underhanded and potentially dangerous tactics. I’ll give you an example: one person who posts regularly on it (you’ll know who he is) appears to have an absolute obsession with me. I’ve been given copies of his posts and I really have to ask: does he have anything else to do at all but mount these crazy attacks on me. In one post, he claims my family are a “ratpack” and all of us live in a “delelict” building. Apart from being untrue, what has this got to do with coursing? He says too that I never go into a pub and nobody talks to me. Is there nobody in charge on that site, that someone is at liberty to spew out such vitriol? If that man had confidence in the future of hare coursing, as he boasts he has, he wouldn’t need to engage in that kind of nonsense. He is doing far more damage to himself than he is to the anti coursing campaign. In fairness to yourself, you have not sought to denigrate people in that cowardly fashion.

Though I oppose hare coursing, I have known many coursing people and I have never had as much as an unfriendly word with them. I have met the late Comndt Joe Fitzpatrick in Clonmel and the late Jerry Desmond and shaken hands with them. There might be a difference of opinion on coursing itself but not any bitterness. But as for the people on GN mounting those personalised attacks and literally inventing stories about campaigners to damage reputations…then again, maybe let them at it. On a positive note it may well help to bring about the demise of hare coursing. Now wouldn’t that be ironic?

Padjoe, I write no drivel, and in fact some of my writing has been critically acclaimed. I have answered the question you refer to. Kieran for his part, has failed to step up to the plate. How can he? He either condones what is detailed in those NPWS reports, or he does not, but he can’t bring himself to tell us. Bear in mind Padjoe that this is what the present debate is about, if you refer back to the original article: The latest reports on coursing meetings from the NPWS.

Re extremist activity…I oppose that whichever side it comes from, so you’re on a loser there if you think you can catch me out or discredit me. Will you now condemn and distance yourself from the campaign of vitriol that has been directed against me on Greyhound Nuts? Since when did name-calling and false allegations constitute debate?

The fact a tiny minority of people who care about animal welfare resort to tactics I would not approve of has no relevance to the central question here: Is hare coursing a demonstrably cruel practice or not? I say yes, based on the evidence of all those videos I mentioned (including ones produced by coursing clubs and fans), and the NPSW reports that have you all running scared. As I have advocated drag coursing as an alternative to live hare coursing, why on earth would I want to ban that? I have already addressed that issue several times. This is a debate, not an interrogation.

You say you have never seen a hare caught or hurt in coursing. Ah Padjoe, have you seen that TV ad with the man shearing the sheepdog? Like that hapless fellow, and I say this with the greatest respect to your good self…but I think you should go to Specsavers.

OMG Thats no way to hold a hare! the poor little thing must be terrified : (, it’s a disgrace to Ireland that this is aloud to continue, I’m a shamed to call myself Irish when I see that blood sports are aloud to continue in our beautiful Country : (, shame on my goverment for allowing this to continue!

I think anyone who gets enjoyment from this ‘sport’ is sick in the head or must have a lack of empathy.

Eoin, you may hurt the pride of that august site, which, as you must know, plays host to some of the greatest minds on this island. Re coursing…I propose quite simply that you take the live hare out of it. You don’t need to terrorize these harmless animals to test the speed and stamina of competing greyhounds. When you step outside of this jurisdiction to go coursing elsewhere, you find drag coursing is the norm, and the coursing clubs in Australia for example are not complaining about the absence of live hares from their activity. Not only that, but as a rule they are rightly ermbarrassed at the fact that LIVE coursing was EVER part of the greyhound scene in their countries.

Re greyhound racing, of course the greyhounds should be looked after as dogs of any breed should. They should not be abandoned after their racing careers are over, as unfortunately happens. That’s a completely seperate issue from the objection to hare coursing. A dog is for life, as the slogan goes, not just for Christmas…and not just for a flutter. But I am not aware of anyone objecting to a dog chasing a non live lure as on the track. Concern about the welfare of greyhounds (or any breed of dog) is an issue that should not be construed as an objection to drag coursing.

I suggest that even before a ban on live coursing the various coursing club s begin the switchover to the drag version.

Vast majority of people in rural Ireland would like to see hare coursing banned, why has it yet to happen ? It’s time to identify the vested interests preventing it and to take them on.

Kieran, I have an open mind. I saw hare coursing firsthand in all its sickening cruelty before taking a stand. Can the millions of people in all the countries that have already banned it, and the millions of people in Ireland who want it banned here, all be accused of having “closed minds”? Why not open your own mind to the humane alternative of drag coursing?

Re the use of the term “country pursuit” to describe hare coursing…the practise is not opposed because it happens to take place in rural districts, but because it involves immense and deliberate animal cruelty. Likewise dog fighting that occurs in some urban districts is abhorrent. To say this is not condemn city folk, any more than seeking a ban on hare coursing can be construed as an attack on rural Ireland.

I have made my own views very clear on all these issues, and I notice that the scribes on “Greyhound Nuts” are keeping up their vitriolic attacks on me, resorting to the foulest of language and personalised insults. One contributor called me a “village idiot” and then went on to draw attention, inadvertently, to his own appalling ignorance and bullyboy tactics. Those “writings”, forwarded to me by a disgruntled ICC member who is concerned about the low standards displayed by the site in question, have been preserved and will, in due course, be made public. People will then be in a position to assess the credibility of those who act as mouthpieces of the live hare coursing fraternity in Ireland

I have cited FACTS and HARD EVIDENCE in support of a ban on hare coursing. Claims about phantom hare stranglers and misty-eyed teachers who love coursing do not count as evidence. Nor do the semi-articulate rantings on the site referred to. The one subject that the hardcore animal-baiters fear most is drag coursing. It shows them up because the very existence of this alternative to the thuggish and cruel abuse of hares in LIVE coursing knocks the ground from under them.

Any objective member of the public viewing this debate might ask him or herself: If these coursing clubs REALLY do not wish to see hares injured, mauled, battered into the ground, or killed (as happens at live coursing events)…then why will they not acceptt, or even consider, replaing the live hares with mechanical lures as their counterparts across the planet have done?

Far from waffling, Padjoe, I have offered you and your colleagues a detailed and focused analysis of the situation, something you will never find on the “Greyhounds Nuts” site that represents the greyhound industry in Ireland. You have failed to offer any convincing argument as to why it is necessary for coursing clubs in Ireland to use LIVE HARES, instead of the mechanical ones your counterparts in other nations have wisely accepted.

Your contention that a hare needs a greyhound is outlandish. Pure Fr. Ted stuff. The Arctic hares get along great and not a coursing club in sight. How do they manage at all without people to net them and set them up as live bait for dogs to terrorize and batter into the ground? Do they know that they’re missing?

Correction: Every PROFESSIONAL opinion poll conducted on hare coursing has shown that between 70 and 80 % of people favour a ban. The only poll showing less support for ban was the one on Journal.ie that was rigged (as proven conclusively) by hare coursing fans. In my book Bad Hare Days I do indeed recount my experiences of the campaign, including the early days. But I have already provided links to videos of RECENT coursing events, including the so-called “Irish Cup” meeting, and the horrific scenes are quite evident. Hare coursing is cruel with or without muzzling. Whether the unforunate hare is torn apart between the two dogs, or battered and mauled and tossed about like a rag doll…it still suffers…and for what? To amuse a few gamblers and people who, for whatever reason, enjoy seeing the animal being subjected to such an ordeal. Re numbers attending the Clonmel coursing cruelty session…Most of the people who attend the first day of the event also turn up on days two and three, so that the same people are counted three times, a clever ploy to give an exaggerated impression of support for this animal cruelty.

How hare coursing is handled in other jurisdictions…

http://www.saffronwaldenreporter.co.uk/news/three_fine_for_hare_coursing_near_saffron_walden_1_1375493

http://www.chelmsfordweeklynews.co.uk/news/maldon/9702564.Essex__Men_fined_for_hare_coursing/

Padjoe…the 20,000 Euro reward was offered for information leading to the conviction of the person who actually tortured the hare…that was the offence, not the filming of the blooding incident’s aftermath. The two students are to be commended for bringing the incident to light, and shaming the coursing set into putting up the reward.

No organization that I am involved with has released mink as alleged. More unfounded malicious allegations from people who smear withoutr mercy, and without producing a scrap of evidence to back up their claims.

The Green Party’s loss in the election was caused by economic factors and its link with FF in government. Its backing for a coursing ban and the banning of staghunting had nothing to do with it, as borne out by a Sunday Independent opinion poll at the time that showed a big majority of people backing the staghunt ban. RISE failed in its attempt to block the staghunt ban, and also in its attempt to have the ban reversed. Incidentally, I do not live in Dublin and the fact of the matter is that opposition to hare coursing is, if anything, even more pronounced in rural Ireland.

Again, the old nonsense about all the lovely things you do for hares. Fact: coursing clubs net hares for use as live bait. The videos I referred to earlier prove that the hares ARE horribly injured and subjected to immense stress and suffering, and that what happens is NOT harmless fun as David claims. The FOI reports are further proof that only a mechanical lure to replace the hare will end the cruelty.

The idea that hares somehow need coursing is laughable. They don’t need to be used as live bait, to be ill-treated for fun and used in blooding sessions. Likewise badgers do not benefit from badger baiting and dogs do not benefit from dog fighting.

Have a look at newspaper reports in Australia from the 1950s and early sixties…the same debate, the same arguments for and against. The outcome there was a ban…state by state it was eradicated from that great continent.

And from New Zealand…Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland.

Are all these countries out of step, as well as the vast majority of the Irish people who favour a ban on hare coursing?

However long it takes, hare coursing will be outlwed here, just as the evil industrial schools had to close and the Magdalene centres that were once deemed part of our culture.

The times they are a changing. Thank God.

What is the point in all the debating about this issue, it is cruel and it should be banned, so stop debating the issue and just ban this inhumane sport, if that is what you want to call it. Sick people do sick things.

ARAN that you refer to has never denounced drag coursing and I have already answered your question very comprehensively. You have failed to respond to my challenge to you: Will you distance yourself from ANY of the coursing clubs named in the NPWS reports? You claim to be concerned about the welfare of hares, and while that claim lacks a shred of credibility in any event I think it is doubly interesting that you cannot bring yourself to condemn the suffering inflicted on hares in coursing even when the evidence is staring you in the face. How many hares have to get struck, maued, savaged, or tossed about like garbage at a meeting before you cry “halt”? Your claim that I detest the Catholic Church is one hundred percent false, a blatant fabrication that originated on the vile webiste already referred to. In fact, in FIVE of my books dealing with local history and heritage I focus on the positive achievements of clergy, and of individual nuns, priests, and brothers. Morevover, I have had several letters published drawing attention to the dangers implicit in false allegations against clergy. You are so way off the mark on that one Kieran, but then your “sources” don’t amount to much. Re contacting other groups…I have simply informed other groups about this debate, exactly as you have done. That isn’t even an issue. I mentioned those posts on GN because they show just how desperate the pro-hare coursing side is to suppress opposition its activities. I oppose extremism or actual violence from any side, so your putting up stories about militants etc is a pointless gesture. Will you also now publicly dissociate yourself from 1) the coursing clubs named in the NPWS reports, 2) the pro-hare coursing bullyboys who post abusive messages and FALSE allegations about named campaigners on the net, and 3) the deliberate attempt by hare coursing fans (they were caught red-handed, remember) to rig an opinion poll on hare coursing to give the false impression that the “sport” had more support than it actually does? The professional opinion polls all point to massive support for a ban, so I suppose that little caper was to be expected, but you must now reject such tactics if you are serious about cleaning up the image of hare coursing. Not that all the cleaning in the world could ever remove could remove the shame from this cruel and cowardly practise.

Eoin…Re my points “becoming tiresome”…I repeat aspects of the case against hare coursing because you, for your part, repeat the fallacious arguments in defence of it. The status of the hare popuilation in Australia has no bearing whatsoever on the question as to whether setting up hares as live bait is acceptable. All the Australian states looked very closely at the hare coursing issue, debated it thoroughly and in each instance opted to protect this timid creature from the organised cruelty that coursing clubs were engaged in. The result was that, as I’ve tried to explain heretofore, the clubs all switched to drag coursing in which no hares are ill-treated or abused for “sport”. The claim that coursing “look after” hares is a sickening fallacy. They capture the animals for use in a vicious and horribly cruel spectacle. What they feed them before that, or the lovely scenery around them etc has nothing to so with it. Re. your oddball allegation about finacing of protests…not one person on this island is making money out of the campaign to end hare coursing. It is a purely voluntary campaign, unlike hare coursing itself which is all about money prizes and, what I and others object to, the organised ill-treatment of animals. And I’m sure you’ll accept that voluntary groups of any kind are entitled to fund-raise for their work. Again, this outrageous nonsense about the “strangled hare”. The Irish Coursing Club, as you well know, offered a reward for information leading to the conviction of the person responsible for what happened to that one animal. Nobody has claimed the reward, and the spurious allegation that anti-coursing people staged the whole thing is utterly without foundation, a ploy to divert attention from the cruelty so plainly exposed at numerous hare coursing events. I have responded to all your challenges and and answered all your questions. You and your pro-hare coursing colleagues have as yet failed to explain why you need to see LIVE hares being subjected to the kind of horrific scenes evident in the videos, and referred to in the latest FOI reports. Perhaps, for the benefit especially of anyone unfamilar with the difference between drag coursing and LIVE hare coursing, it would be helpful to see both forms: So here are two videos: the first shows action from the “Irish Cup” live hare coursing event last February. The second shows drag coursing. Let people decide for themselves which is the more humane or animal-friendly practise to permit in a civilised society:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL741E0B6DA3CBB057

http://www.doggies.com/articles/32-explore-the-fascinating-sport-of-lure-coursing.html

Reality is that the human relationship with animals will be seen as cruel as long as the animals aren’t in their natural habitat and living free lives with no human intervention.

We keep many different types of animals, society allows for most but then some pets are frowned upon. I’m a horseman, I’ve never hunted but people see riding horses as cruel. Keeping the horse confined to one field can be cruel. Horses are roaming animals so need to travel like they would in the wild.

Some people say that placing a dog in a run for a few hours a day is cruel. You can buy dog crates but they can be cruel.

Cat carriers, are they cruel? I mean they don’t want to go in them yet we force them. They are suffering mentally, do most cat owners say that is cruel?

My point is that animals are much stronger than we give them credit for. Humanizing animals isn’t a good thing. Treat a dog like a dog and don’t dress it up in stupid doggy clothing and pretend it gives a crap!

These Hares, yes I do agree it seems a shame to distress them but as another comment already says, being chased is natural to them and they deal with it in the way their biology let’s them. When Mr Fox chases them we don’t cry about how he doesn’t give a crap about the pain he causes, sure he’d feel pain if it happened to him, but does he care? What a b@stard!!

Calm down now Kieran. I have obviously touched a raw nerve. I and my colleagues would certainly have preferred that we didn’t have to make these polite representations to the sponsors of live hare coursing. It is necessary because some commercial firms are throwing a lifeline to a vile form of animal cruelty that is, though I know you hate to be reminded, a criminal offence in most countries. Your increasingly desperate attempt to drive a wedge between the different animal groups is pathetic. Each group has its own ethos and its own set of policies of course, but, Kieran, EVERY animal protection/rights/welfare/campaign group in Ireland has aim thing in common: We ALL want hare coursing banned. I knew you would dislike the cat analogy. It cuts to the heart of the issue. Hare coursing is NOT about conservation or caring about hares as some apologists for it sickeningly claim. It is purely and simply about using hares as live bait and for no better reason than that some human beings get their jollies from watching a harmless little animal running for its life, its eyes bulging with terror. Try as you might Kieran you cannot brush away the shameful truth about this practise, as revealed in all those videos and the NPWS reports. What is a TRUE COURSING SPORTSMAN? Answer: the man who walks away from the well proven cruelty to animals that is central to the LIVE version… and goes drag coursing instead. You accuse me of hating the greyhound industry. Kieran, you poor man, can’t you see that a ban on hare coursing would BENEFIT the greyhound industry? It would remove the damning spectre of cruelty from it. The industry needs to be cleansed of hare coursing for its own good. Can you not just leave the hares alone? Thousands have been terrorized, horribly injuured or killed in the name of gambling and “sport” and coursing clubs are gearing up for more of the same. They bring nothing but shame to Ireland. A day will come when even someone like you Kieran will wonder why human beings EVER took pleasure from such a vile spectacle.

It should be stopped its disgusting and very cruel.

Kieran, any approaches we make to sponsors of cruel hare coursing events are RESPECTFUL. Harrassment and bullying have never been part of our ethos and never will. The respectul, polite terms we use when requesting those who finance those activities to desist are far removed from the vituperative language and foul mouthed threats routinely dished out on the site referred to earlier. And you have as yet failed to publicly distance yourself from those tactics. GN also posts information about named campaigners and permits contributers to attack the reputations of those people. By contrast, we seek merely to dissuade commercial firms of any kind from backing animal cruelty. That is an eminently reasonable position. The appeal to sponsors is not replacing the campaign to persuade the government to act on this issue. It runs parallel to it. Re your earlier comment about the numbers of hares killed or injured being “miniscule”…whether one hare is mauled or struck at a meeting, or ten or twenty, the principle remains the same: Cruelty is cruelty regardless of numbers. To put it another way: let’s say there are eighty cats in a given area, all minding their own business and purring contentedly. Then along comes a gurrier who takes one of the cats and throws it to a dog that proceeds to maul and injure the animal. It would be no defence for the gurrier to plead” hey, the other 79 cats are ok and I patted them on the head and played with them before I tortured this cat”. You see my point? The fact that the other animals were unaffected by the act of cruelty is not relevent. Except in coursing the situation is even worse for the hare…because it is not only the hares that get mauled or pinned to the ground or otherwise visibly injured that come to grief. The sheer stress and terror of the ordeal may kill off hares also. Stress Myopathy is more than a theory now, Kieran. In this ongoing compassion versus cruelty battle, Kieran, I urge you to re-think your position and come down on the side of the hare. Ask yourself: What has the innocent hare ever done to you to deserve coursing?

Correction: the hare referred to as “strangled” in the 2010 incident at Clonmel coursing grounds was not hurt or handled or interfered with in any way whatsoever by animal rights/welfare people or by any campaigners against blood sports. The animal was a victim of a blooding-related incident. Blooding takes place prior to a coursing event, the purpose being to improve a dog’s performance by teasing it with a live animal such as a hare, rabbit, or cat. Wire restraints of the kind shown in the film would be quite common in blooding. Two foreign students who visited the coursing grounds filmed the AFTERMATH of whatever the hare was subjected to, fair play to them. If, however, Kieran has precise information on WHO EXACTLY ill-treated the hare he should avail of the 20,000 Euro reward offered by the Irish Coursing Club! A clever PR move that. Of course there were no rewards offered on behalf of the countless thousands of other hares battered and mauled and savaged in broad daylight at coursing events.

Kieran’s denial of the terror and suffering to which hares are subjected in coursing is easily refuted. Pro-coursing videos posted on UTube show up the cruelty as explicitly as the films posted by anti coursing groups!

Again, opposition to hare coursing is on animal welfare grounds, as in the case of badger baiting, cock fighting, and dog fighting. The actual numbers of hares, cocks, dogs or badgers involved, or the impact of these “sporting” activities on the overall hare, cock, dog, or badger populations is another issue altogether. Even if only a dozen hares per annum were ill-treated for “sport” by coursing clubs it would be still be objectionable.

Re the poll on Journal.ie to which Kieran refers. Anyone who goes back and has a look at that poll will see that pro-coursing elements were caught red-handed rigging that poll (this was proved beyond any doubt) and that fans were openly encouraged on the “Greyhound Nuts” website to participate in the poll-rigging by repeat voting and use of different computers, “deletion of cookies” etc. The polls that count are the professional ones and all those reveal that a huge majority of the Irish people want hare coursing banned, as indeed it has been banned in the UK, Northern Ireland, New Zealand, Australia, and most of the countries that once permitted this appalling practise. Just take the unfortunatre hare out of the equation and replace it with a mechanical lure and you can have all the fun without the cruelty. Couldn’t be simpler. Live coursing has no future, just a sick and shameful past that no right-thinking person can be proud of.

Credit to coursing clubs for conservation? What a joke!! Deluded!

Coursers are cruel to hares, not opponents of hare coursing. You make claims about teachers who laud coursing yet cannot say who these teachers are or where they teach. Your excuse for not naming them is that you allege I would “attack” them. I would not, but I would challenge any teacher who sought to poison the minds of children by encouraging them to get involved in organised animal cruelty. And that would be a reasonable challenge. Your repeated allegation that someone opposed to coursing caused harm to a hare to make your side look bad is ludicrous beyond words. You produce no evidence to support that claim. By contrast, I cite REAL indisputable evidence to support my case against hare coursing, such the reports from NPWS and actual footage of hare coursing:

Footage like this from the “prestigious” Irish Cup coursing event:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL741E0B6DA3CBB057

And evidence such as this:

(Following are summaries of the recent FOI reports re the relevant hare coursing events, and extracts from them)

Ennis/Clarecastle, December 10/11, 2011
According to ranger’s report, on day one, five hares were hit, with three dying
in the escape after coursing. On day two, seven hares were hit, two killed, four
injured, one put down and two died from injuries. This amounts to a total of
eight fatalities.

Gorey, Co. Wexford, 29/30 October, 2011
Over the two days of coursing sixteen hares were hit by dogs, with nine pinned
and seven dying of their injuries, according to NPWS ranger’s report.

Listowel, Co. Kerry, Oct 12/13, 2011
Seven hares hit by greyhounds, three killed, three injured and two put down because of
injuries, plus one died in coursing compound. A total of seven fatalities.

Millstreet, Co. Cork, December 30/31, 2012
Three hares were hit by dogs, three hares were dead at end of coursing. Ranger
noted that “a number of hares (at least three, probably more) had
conjunctivitis, as confirmed by Vet. At least nine hares had foot injuries.”

Murrintown, Wexford, 26/27 December, 2011
Ranger reported six hares hit by muzzled dogs on Day two, with six injured and
two killed. Meanwhile veterinary report cited twelve hares unfit for coursing,
four hares injured and sixteen “sick or otherwise unfit” after coursing.
According to this coursing club’s Hare Capture Return, eighty-six hares were
captured for coursing. However a figure of seventy-five was cited at the start of
coursing on day one, leaving a discrepancy of eleven hares. In a memo from the
ranger to his superior, he cited that the club informed him that they
had a “break in on their hare paddock” and that “eight hares were missing
and three killed”.

Tradaree, Co. Clare November 12/13, 2011, 2011
On day one, two hares were hit and one killed. On day two, ranger noted that four
hares had died overnight and one after coursing. Vet’s report stated that
nine hares were “unfit for coursing, one injured and one unfit after coursing.

Thurles & District, Co. Tipperary, 29/30, October, 2011
Ten hares hit over the two days, two hares killed, two injured and two died
overnight in coursing compound.

Kilflynn, Co. Kerry, October 1 & 2, 2011
Twleve hares hit by dogs, three hares killed, three died of “natural causes”, one
injured and one put down because of injuries.

Sevenhouses, Co. Kilkenny, January 14/15
Twelve hares hit by muzzled dogs, one killed, four injured and one put down because
of injuries.

Lixnaw, Co. Kerry, November 4/5/6, 2011
Two hares hit by greyhounds, one killed and one died of “natural causes”.

Parksgrove, North Kilkenny, December 26/27, 2011
Thirteen hares hit by muzzled dogs, two killed two put down because of injuries,
with two “escaped”.

Mitchelstown, Co. Cork, November 5/6, 2011
Seven hares hit by dogs, three injured and two put down as a result of their
injuries, plus one found dead in escape.

Abbeydorney, Co. Kerry, October 22/23, 2011
Six hares hit by greyhounds, one killed.

Limerick City, November 5/6, 2011
Ten hares struck by greyhounds, with four injured and one put down because of
injuries, one “escaped”.

Enniscorthy, Co. Wexford, November 26/27, 2011
Seven hares struck by greyhounds with three injured.

Balbriggan, Co. Dublin, November 26/27, 2011
Nine hares hit, one injured, according to NPWS ranger, with vet’s report
stating that two hares were injured and two “sick or otherwise unfit” after
coursing, and ICC control steward stating that one died of natural causes,
and one injured hare released.

Westmeath United, October 15/16, 2011
Ranger described coursing as follows: “There were nine hares hit on Day one.
Of these, one hare was tossed and rolled on the ground; another hare was
tossed and mauled; another was mauled on the ground by the two dogs and
placed in a wooden box; another was hit about five times and mauled on
the ground by the dogs. When the dog owners came running in, one of them
grabbed the hare and lifted it away from the dogs by its side and then
the steward took it from him and handled it in a more appropriate
manner. The hare cried with what I presume was distress during this
incident. The steward placed this hare in the wooden box. Another hare
was tossed and badly mauled by the dogs later in the day. In all, three hit
hares were retrieved and placed in a wooden box”. The box was subsequently
taken away by the vet, who stated in his report that one died and two were
released.

Fermoy, Co. Cork, October 19/20, 2011
Six hares hit by muzzled dogs, one injured and one put down because of
injuries, with the ranger being informed that a hare was found dead the
morning after in the escape. Vet’s report stated that five hares were
injured (four more than ranger stated) with one hare euthanised.

Ballyduff, Co. Kerry, November 18/19, 2011
Four hares hit by dogs, and one died of “natural causes”.

Ballyheighue, Co. Kerry, October 14/15/16, 2011
Ranger didn’t attend on Day one. Four hares struck over two days, with one hare
killed and one dying of “natural causes”.

Limerick Regional, Clarina, October 15/16, 2012
Fifteen hares hit by dogs, five “pinned” and ten “tipped”, five injured and two died
of injuries. Ranger stated that a post mortem was sought on the hares
that died, with his line manager requesting via a note on the form the
findings of the post mortem, stating “I presume it was internal injuries
rather than muzzles coming off?” Ranger noted “Yes – muzzles did not
come off.”

Ballinaboola, New Ross, Co. Wexford, October 8/9, 2011
Fourteen hares hit by dogs, fourteen hares injured, one killed and one died from
injuries.

Loughrea, Co. Galway, October 22/23, 2011
Fourteen hares hit by muzzled dogs, with three put down because of injuries. It
was noted that three hares were “unaccounted for” on release.

Glin, Co. Limerick, October 7/8/9, 2011
Ranger stated that two hares were killed.

Nenagh, Co. Tipperary, December 17/18, 2011
Four hares hit by muzzled dogs.

Mallow, Co. Cork, October 22/23, 2011
Nine hares hit by muzzled dogs, and one “escaped” from paddock.

Galway & Oranmore, Nov 10 & 11, 2011
Ten hares hit, four pinned.

Charleville, Co. Cork, Oct 29/30,2011
Five hares hit. It was stated that no vet was present, but on call, while
the ICC control steward said there was veterinary involvement. The vet
completed a veterinary report, despite not being present.

Castleisland, Co.Kerry, October 30/31, 2011
One hare hit by muzzled dogs.

Castletown-Geoghegan, Co. Westmeath, December 17/18, 2011
Six hares hit by muzzled dogs, with one “bad grazing”. Vet stated two hares
were injured.

East Donegal, December 3 and 4, 2011
Ranger stated one hare hit, one injured and died from injury.

***

Kieran, greyhounds elsewhere have adapted to chasing non-live lures and they’ll do fine here also when the time comes. Re your dislike of drag coursing as an alternative to live animal baiting, I recall that prior to 1993 the ICC and coursing clubs generally were emphatically opposed to the very idea of muzzling coursing dogs. Yet they changed their minds and accepted it when Tony Gregory moved the Bill to ban live coursing. It’ll be the same with drag coursing. Your side will huff and puff but eventually you won’t have a choice. Incidentally, while muzzling has proved a failure, its introduction was the beginning of the end for live coursing. In 1987, the then ICC secretary Jerry Desmond predicted that if muzzling was ever put in place, “it would introduce an element of cruelty into coursing”. Exact quote. I have the video of the interview on RTE’s Mailbag programme.The man was a prophet, even if he didn’t see certain other developments coming down the tracks. Again, you level unfounded allegations against me. I have not requested anyone to “harrass” people. I engage in legal, peaceful lobbying to secure the protection of hares from coursing. That is entirely legitimate campaigning. You have some nerve to making this accusation against me, while failing to dissociate yourself from the GN site and the tactics displayed thereon.

Looks like the empathy-deficient animal abusers are trying to justify their sick entertainment again.

Seeing sentient beings being battered, thrown in the air and killed is very real in coursing just like it always was. Hopefully the new Bill to end this disgrace will get through.

Surely in 2012 there is something more important to these neanderthals than keeping cruelty alive.

Padjoe, That hare, like all the the thousand of others that have been “looked after” by loving coursing clubs, was a victim of ill-treated by coursing fans. Your attempt to shift the blame to mythical “antis” is pathetic and shows how desperate the coursing fraternity is becoming in its bid to defend the indefensible.

The two students who caught the hare’s sad plight on film deserve great credit, not condemnation, for their action. They brought the incident to light. Without their intervention to record this example of hare coursing cruelty, I have doubt but that it would have been brushed under the carpet

The person who tortured the hare did not do so to “discredit” coursing, but to enhance a dog’s performance. That’s the purpose of blooding.Nobody needs to discredit coursing. It does that all by itself.

If you know specifically who tortured the hare, why aren’t taking up that offer of a 20,000 Euro reward from the Irish Coursing Club?

You can’t have it both ways.

Conservation and animal welfare are different issues. Hare coursing stands condemned on animal welfare grounds because of the extreme cruelty to animals (proven beyond doubt and thoroughly documented) that is at the heart of the practise. The report referred to in Mr. Daniels’ link was considered in great depth by the members of the Northern Ireland Assembly lest it had anything in it that might detract in any way from the case against hare coursing. Having studied it, the MLAs opted to impose a complete ban on hare coursing.

The fact that some coursing clubs claimed to have given the hares a good time BEFORE setting them up as live bait just didn’t wash with the elected reprersentatives of Northern Ireland. And so, unionists and nationalists joined forces to protect the innocent hare from a shameful and discredited blood sport.

In other words, “conservation” is no excuse for ill-treated animals. The NPWS reports reinforce this point…

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/101832?userlanguage=ga&save_prefs=true

Eric, your story is even less believable now. You originally alleged that this “teacher” had told his pupils that members of named animal protection groups were anarchists etc. He would have to stand over that allegation, as indeed would you, if this teacher existed outside your imagination. If he existed, it would be very much in your interests, and those of the pro-hare coursing lobby, to have him come out and speak publicly about the position you say he has adopted. This story is like the one about the mythical “antis” you say attacked a hare to make it look as if the coursing people had “done it”. The tactics being adopted by the defenders of hare coursing reflect a growing desperation on their part and a realisation that there is no real defence of deliberate animal cruelty. In the past hour, the latest outpourings from the “Greyhound Nuts” site have been made available to me from a source within the ICC. The site has been running a parallel “commentary” on what’s happening on Journal.ie. Selected extracts from these offerings will in due course be posted on the net for all to see. They provide an insight into the peculiar mindset of those who think watching captive hares run in terror from dogs in a wired enclosure is harmless fun.

A unlikely story Eric. You wouldn’t like to tell us exactly which school you are referring to? I doubt very much that it, or that teacher, exists.

Any teacher in an Irish school who made false and defamatory allegations such as the ones you mention in front of a class of pupils about named animal protection groups would find himself in serious trouble.

Opposition to hare coursing actually unites the communities in the North. While they might differ fundamentally on many issues, the vast majority agree that setting up a timid, defenceless animal to be terrororized, battered, and mauled for “sport” is utterly unacceptable. The ban enjoys massive cross-community support in the North, and most people in the Republic want it banned too.

Kieran, coursing clubs, not animal welfare people, dish out the cruelty to hares for “sport”. The famous “strangling” incident was the result of coursing/”blooding” activity and had nothing to do with opponents of the practice. Re “conservation” by coursing clubs, the objection to the practise is based on animal welfare concerns, not numbers. It would be unacceptable whether 50 hares were terrorized and mauled for kicks…or 500 or 5000. If you are going to mount such a defence of hare coursing you could equally defend badger baiting on the basis that it doesn’t threaten the overall badger population numbers-wise. It is the well-documented evidence of extreme and indefensible cruelty to hares in coursing that every animal welfare group and every decent fair-minded person finds unacceptable. And the evidence is not confined to videos made by opponents of the practise: UTube is awash with videos posted by coursing fans…not only do they arrange for hares to be terrorized and mauled and battered for fun: they make films of their handiwork to admire and gloat over. The fight to end this sickening “recreational” abuse of a harmless animal by coursing clubs will continue because the hare is part of our precious wildlife heritage. This beautiful creature is not the preserve or the property of coursing clubs, but belongs to all of us. Hare coursing has nothing to be proud of. It wallows in shame and savagery and should have been banned decades ago.

Kieran, that statement re meat, vegans and hares is typical of the absolutely ludicrous nonsense you and other pro-hare coursing people have to resort in your bid to distract public attention from the real issue: the well proven horrific cruelty of the so-called “sport”. I have made no statements here about meat, veganism etc so you are in no position to accuse me one way or the other on those issues. The issue here is the fall-out from the NPWS reports that offer conclusive evidence that muzzling has not eliminated cruelty from hare coursing. You may choose to ignore that evidence and waffle on about the marvellous work you say coursing clubs do for hares. The truth is very different: Coursing clubs capture hares for live baiting. Hares SUFFER HORRIBLY in coursing, contrary to all the claims about them “enjoying” it and loving the carrots and lettuce you guys give them prior to them being put in front of two hyped-up greyhounds.That’s why so many countries have banned it. I don’t accept the contention that all those countries are out of step and that it’s you and your felow hare coursers here in Ireland who have got it right. You need to emerge from denial and accept that the vast majority of the Irish people say NO to hare coursing. The cruelty of hare coursing is NOT some “Bambi”-like fantasy Kieran as you blithely allege. If only it were! It is all too real and has to be opposed until it has been completely eradicated from this country. Re approaches to sponsors. People, including customers, are entitled to contact commercial firms and make their views known about their sponsorship policies. Several animal protection groups are lobbying firms and asking them, very politely and respectfully, to re-think their support for activities like hare coursing etc. Nobody is being encouraged to harrass or intimidate. For my own part, I encourage people to show courtesy and respect when asking a given firm to show compassion to animals and when asking those firms to desist from backing any form of animal cruelty. A number of sponsors have already withdrawn their financial backing of hare coursing and these have been thanked for their compassionate stance. The campaign to end hare coursing is a perfectly legal and peaceful one. Without coursing clubs, Kieran, the hare would lack nothing apart from the alleged “benefit” of being snatched from its nautural home in the countryside for use as live bait. How coursing fans can keep a straight face when claiming that hares benefit from being mauled, savaged, forcibly struck, and pinned to the ground by dogs (“sport” clearly visible in the videos and referred to the NPWS reports) is a complete mystery to me. The arguments put forward in defence of hare coursing amount to one very long black comedy sketch. But the hares aren’t laughing.

Hare hare!!

Kill off all country pursuits, close the pubs, close the marts move them all to the city’s.!

Ah yes the city folk are preaching to the country lads again

Correction: I am NOT motivated by hate, but by a determination to end the organised, deliberate cruelty of hare coursing. Compasion for an animal that is on the receiving end of horrific ill-treatment is very far removed from hatred. If you look back over my previous comments you see that I have not once displayed this hatred you refer to. You, on the other hand, have resorted to highly personalised attacks and intrusive unfounded allegations against me.Your claims that this form of animal cruelty benfits the hare must again be refuted. It is a breathtaking piece of nonsense that no fair-minded ration human being would give the slightest credit. The cockfighting, badger baiting and dogfighting advocates made EXACTLY the same claim when their “sports” were threatened with abolition: that while a few dogs, roosters, and badgers might have got a raw deal in the “sport”, overall it was good for them. The greyhound will not “die out”, and more than the hare will after a ban.

The dogs can be looked after as all dogs should be. The so-called “coursing strain” is less important than the welfare of the dogs and the protection of the hares from the abusive practise that is live coursing. Again, hares in counties where no coursing exists such as Wicklow or Longford fare as well population-wise as hares in Kerry or Clare, but with the added advantage that coursing clubs are not around to subject them to the kind of treatment so evident in the videos and the NPWS reports.

Re your off the wall comments earlier: Veganism is a personal lifestyle choice and I have never attempted to force it on anyone. Whether a person is vegan, vegetarian, fruitarian, or meat-eater is his or her own business. How dare you make intrusive personalised attacks of that kind on me. I haven’t asked you what you had for your dinner or breakfast. I would suggest you think carefully before acting on the basis of “information” gleaned from a cetain site.

By the way, I’m sure you’ll have no problem responding to this simple challenge. You say that hare coursing has nothing to do with cockfighting. I invite you to publicly declare that you would condemn and repudiate any website purporting to represent the greyhound industry and hare coursing that CARRIED A FREE AD PROMOTING ILLEGAL COCKFIGHING. Very straightforward, Kieran. You would “distance” yourself from such a site I take it?

The site in question has really slipped up on that one, and the relevant pages, if and when they are passed onto me (hopefully withina few days) will be shown to every politician in Ireland.

Should we ban fishing next?

Once again, the icabs and cacs of b w and j f put their personal financial interests ahead of all else. Getting yet another article published by whoever they can and wherever they can for publicity. The article is completely biased and also full of lies to suit their own agenda.
It has already been proven that hares CANNOT be sentient like a human because of proportions of certain parts I their brains.
It has also been proven that hares have an 18 times MORE population because I the coursing community.
Furthermore, the ban in the uk has resulted in a decrease in the population of the hare and increase in illegal hunting.
Can we also point out what these so called animals lovers have done in the past, STRANGLING a live hare to suit their agenda. Releasing a farm of mink which has resulted in thousands of animals dying for no reason.

Why don’t people watch the video from tv3 performed by a NEUTRAL and see what he thought of the sport. Ye’s might learn something instead of being indoctrined by the so called lovers above

The famous strangling video was nothing to do with sport or blooding. This was produced by the extremist animals rights people. At all coursing meetings there are wildlife rangers as well as very strict rules. Blooding cannot and does not occur at a coursing meeting. 
This video was put up on YouTube by bernie wright, now if a so called “animal lover” filmed this taking place, why did they not help the animal? (considering they were after breaking into the grounds already). Because the video was filmed by the same people that strangled the hare. 
It was a horrible act and shows what ye are really about. 
Your point on having the possibility of a similar defence for badger baiting makes absolutely no sense. We are not talking about a threatened species whatsoever. What we are showing is that the population of the hate has increased 18fold due to coursing, it’s regulation and it’s looking after of the animal. Badger baiting is unregulated and therefore cannot be lumped into the same category. 
Why are you trying to drive coursing underground especially after the negative effects it has had on the species in the uk? You repeatedly use phrases such as terrorised to appeal to those who don’t know the facts on coursing. Yet you know nothing about ye true effects of the sport. If I were you, I would go and do some research, unbiased, and realise that your futile attempt to drive this sport underground will have a hugely detrimental affect on the hare population. 
Why aren’t you going at the people involved in the sulkey racing in cork during the week? Why is it just a regulated sport? Surely this was more cruel to the animal! Is your financial gain not as good by going after that sport or them people?
You also say most rural people want coursing banned? This is not true, and the most recent poll, which ye initiated on the journal, shows a majority of people in ireland do not want it banned regardless of what excuses you are going to make for the poll.

Has someone asked the hares if they are traumatised? I mean it happens in the wild. Except in the wild they would be killed. So should we just get rid of the muzzles and then they wouldnt be traumatised?

The majority are commenting on how cruel people are for hare coursing and how animals are treated in sport, yet the majority probably eat meat, I’m sorry but isn’t that slightly ironic? We care about animals when they’re mistreated but when their cooked and served in front of us we don’t give a sh@€.

Once again John, you will not look or talk about the facts. It is obvious the strangling could not be a “blooding” incident as you call it. How could it occur within the grounds of the meeting as well as within the enclosure with over 100 other hares. Absolutely idiotic. 
On another note, maybe you should pull out the thesaurus and start finding some new words for mauled and terrorised because people get bored of your daft and senseless ramblings. When the facts are looked at, we can see the benefit of coursing and the detriment if it is banned. This is why you refuse to look at the facts and the reason you ramble on trying to play on emotions. 
Why are you looking for that certain teachers name? Is it because you want to attack an individual because of their beliefs as they don’t go along with your own?
Now, if that video was handed over to ye, you know who took it. So why don’t you hand their names over to the Gardai like they requested? We may then find out the truth. Or have you reason to hide this truth? And maybe you will redeem that 20k reward!?? The money is what it’s all about, isn’t it

I’ve seen more blood spilled on a hurling field than at a coursing meeting………………..the GAA better be careful as the national game will be next :)

It would not be fair to name the the teacher here on a publication so strongly infiltrated by those in the organisations he referred to. However from speaking to a fellow teacher who I enjoy a pint with this much I can tell you. He originally hails from Dublin and in his college years lived with a girl who was a hunt saboteur. He admits until being posted to the countryside to teach he was unaware of the necessity of fox hunting and hare coursing in rural areas relying instead on what his former lover ”a light headed girl as he now calls her” used to tell him. She told him what members were instrurcted to do and expressed her delight about the break in at a mink farm and the release of deadly predator mink into the wild. Shortly after this their love affair ended and he got a teaching position outside of the capital. He decided out of curiosity to do some research after seeing a fox hunt shortly after his arrival.. As a result as he said himself ‘ I saw through the lies that she had been telling me over the years’ and decided that I needed to do something constructive to repair the damage that groups such as the one she was a member of were doing to our native wildlife. His research found that without hare coursing clubs and fox hunting clubs that there would be huge unemployment in many rural areas and also that in the case of hare coursing that the native hare already under threat from the wild mink would have become extinct. Thats it in a nutshell Mr Fitzgerald but I know you won’t believe it as you do not seem from reading your previous posts to believe anybody in any responsible position in society should be involved in hunting. You really should find yourself a pastime as you seem to be a bit paranoid choosing to take issue with anybody who disagrees with your viewpoint. It is apparent that you have a fixation with hares but to each his own. Regards Eric.

John
just a case in point, the ICC (irish coursing club) is under the auspices of the department of the environment and is now also under the dept of arts culture and rural heritage, the ICC has nothing to do with Greyhound Nuts, your comments are bordering on slander, greyhound nuts as far as iam aware is open to any member of the public and is an independent site about greyhound racing in general, this nonsense that it is a closed group is fantastical.
Furthermore i find it quiet humorous that as this debate tapers out you seem to get one positive mark and views against you get one negative mark, john surely you must be aware of the phrase “self praise is no praise”.
I do have a serious query in relation to your thoughts on drag racing (racing being the term as it is no relation to coursing, despite what you suggest), for example is the species of hare in australia not under threat of extinction?
Furthermore, should all foxes and mink be exterminated in the country as they kill more irish hare in an hour than coursing does is in ten years?
To be honest I would be pleased if you could keep your reply (if one is forthcoming) to the point as some of your posts are quiet tiresome to read and detail waffle and mantra that has been repeated for years.
p.s phantom hare stranglers? you lost that debate before! that incident was a disgusting episode apparently created by an organisation of hunt saboteurs, how low can people stoop. to reason that the sacrifice of one is ok for the betterment of their cause, shame on them!

you still fail to answer my simple question, would you personally like to see a ban on all types of greyhound racing?

my 12 year old nephew and his classmates had a guided tour of our local track today and came home very excited afterwards. He told his mother that she and his best friends mother should buy a greyhound and that he and her son would train it after school. He has been looking up how to do this on the internet since he came home. His mother was really thrilled as he is usually a shy individual but now seems full of confidence and plans for the future. The class got a dvd of the national coursing meeting to watch and the teacher is arranging this for them tomorrow. A major coup for the IGB has been landed

Give up Eoin, John is not going to deviate from his repetitive ‘mantra’. I’m not a Coursing man but even I can understand that artificial hares could not possibly replace the natural course of a hare. His absence of opinion on all country pursuit tells it all……!

The nephew and his class really enjoyed the dvd of the national hare coursing meeting that their teacher showed them today. Their teacher was really good at answering some of the question they had regarding how the hares are trained and how they are released afterwards back to where they came from fully fit and disease free. He also explained how animal rights groups like CACS and HUNT SABOTEURS are made up of anarchists who want to make people become vegan and even want to ban using a sliothar made of leather in hurling. Fair play to him for taking such an interest in the welfare and education of his students.
“the teacher told them that hunting with dogs in Ireland goes back to the time of Na Fiannna and is something we should be proud of that has survived throughout our history into the 21st centuary. He also said that it was a sport that brought the two communities of our island together throughout the times of the troubles.

I said anything from 10-30 thousand. No clever ploy. Just the facts. The first day would be 10 thousand people. That number vastly increases over the next 2 days with the third having many more. 
But while on the subject of clever ploys, I can show you hundreds of hours of video footage from coursing all around the country in which no hare is touched, harmed, injured by a dog and all of which will come out stronger into their environment. Your “clever” ploy of showing a few video and claiming this to be the norm is laughable at best. 
I have also looked into one of these “professional” polls in the past and note that the majority of those polled were in the city, an obvious bias there. 
Your points are getting tedious and repetitive. When people look at the facts, they see the detrimental effect when coursing is banned, and the positive effect when it is kept and regulated. You would be a fool to want it banned….. But I’ll leave that point of note with you. 

John, If only closed minds came with closed mouths.

John i think you will find that greyhound nuts does not officially represent the greyhound industry in ireland, but sensationalising would not be like you at all.
I do have a couple of questions for you john if you care to answer, would you like to see all forms of greyhound racing banned? or is it just coursing?

1. I have seen drag coursing. 2. I have never seen any sickening cruelty at coursing meeting or from the people who attend these meeting. I can only call into question where you developed these opinions because it seems very unrealistic what you account in you’re book for the reason you have such a disregard for coursing. Can I ask when you saw this meeting you refer to? How many years ago is it since you have attended? 3. I have also opened my mind to what has happened in the countries that have brought in the ban. That being the now huge reduction in population of the hare and the huge amount of illegal hunting and killing of the hares. Far more inhimane than you would ever see at a coursing meeting. 4. Your figures of millions of people in ireland is a huge exaggeration as we know from numerous polls showing the numbers not wanting a ban. We also know from the 10-30 thousand people that attend the national meeting each year, versus the 10-15 that attend to protest.

The country is going down the pan, thousands are jobless, thousands have to emigrate and TD’s are wasting time on this subject AGAIN !

john can you avoid the mantra and waffle, i enjoy an intelligent debate from time to time, but you are coming across like a broken record and your points are becoming tiresome.
i see you give yourself a thumbs up again, now thats one thing thats farsical.
i also note you decided not to attend to the point on hare population in australia?
have you got plans for conservation of the irish hare if coursing was banned?
moreover you did lose a debate on the hare strangling on here before, your points change as your web of deceit becomes more convoluted. may i ask, how does possibly twenty people demonstrating outside a coursing meeting with 16000 people attending get the right to push their agenda? sure, they and you are entitled to your opinion without question, but the finance for these rallies, posters, banners, websites etc comes from dilution of funds from certain apparent (to ill informed people) animal charities, this is abhorrent in my opinion, some people are making a handsome living off this agenda and when money comes to the fore people can reach new lows to push an agenda, hence the hare strangling episode, which backfired big time, here is the link with all the bluff peeled back to reveal what some people who pretend to care for the irish hare are willing to do http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t65K6OhwPI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Once again. Drag is not a replacement. You are in the habit of repeating yourself which is getting very insipid. And also, you are the only one giving yourself the “thumbs up”. Alone in your argument again.
And if you would create these so called preserves and sanctuaries, why don’t you go to the uk and start doing it there and see how it works besides letting this animal become extinct as a result of the ban you want. Please, start this sanctuary in the uk and realise YOU would be the result of wiping out this animal. (also, will give people a rest from your delusional rants)

You’re dead right David. This fella is in a world of his own. He is the only anti reading his own repeated rubbish which Eoin has pointed out with the number of thumbs up he gets.

You see John where would you draw the line regarding animal welfare? It takes up to half an hour to land a decent size salmon onto the river bank. How about rat traps or rat poison? Or is it only something that we call fun?Yesterday my six year old son and I were presented with a rabbit while out walking with his dog. He was so proud of her and made it his news story for school. He has been brought up to respect all Gods creatures however is well aware of all wild nature including the survival of the fittest. I respect your views but I am afraid coursing a hare with muzzled dogs that can escape under strict regulations is harmless fun and I fear it the word ‘fun’ that really annoys you. Finally beware what you wish for but if coursing was ever banned it would flourish unregulated and encourage horrible cruelty. Luckily as you well know politicians are wise enough not to touch this with a barge pole as they respect the thousand of potential country pursuit voters from fishing, beagling, hunting, coursing and even rat catching!!

Ah John, once again. The same stuff repeated. It’s a sure sign defeat “consumes you”. Twittering all these groups for help shows how you are failing.
Never asked you to answer for other groups. Just yourself, will you support aran looking to ban drag or will you not.
This not changing subject, no name calling. We just have a right to know where you will be supporting if you are now looking for drag. All you yhave to say is “yes I will support Aran on this issue” or no “I will not support Aran on this issue”. It’s not too much to ask.

Animal protection and wildlife groups will create sanctuaries? could you please expand on this point, where? how? how much? what studies have been done on feasibility? why has this not been done in the uk?
regarding the npws report, was there any note in the report saying any illegal practice had taken place? furthermore relating to the heading of this journal article, is there anything in the npws report to say that coursing is inherently cruel? now this has been created by wildlife officers who’s career revolves around the caring of animals, what is their professional opinion?
little did i realise that this debate was still going on, but john a couple of simple reasons re drag “racing” v coursing, drag racing has been in ireland for decades yet is very poorly attended, it is also very poorly attended in australia which is a precinct you like to highlight without knowing the facts, 16000 people do not attend drag racing in australia (this is the average daily attendance at clonmel for coursing) the reason drag racing is unsuccesful is due to coursing greyhound breeding and a lineage relating back centuries, a coursing dog will not chase a drag time after time, it is unnatural for it, hence you will very rarely see a coursing bred greyhound racing at a track. so to sum up what would happen if coursing was banned
1) the hare population would be decimated as proven in reports from other juristictions (but ireland will be different john is that right? laughable!)
2) the coursing greyhound will also become extinct.
3) livelihoods of many rural areas will be affected drastically
4) the value to the irish internal economy will be at a loss to the tune of 100million.
5) a minority group of people who can do such cruel things as strangle a hare for the betterment of their cause would be able to instill their agenda on the wider population, that is not democracy! (despite your reference to opinion polls, you may have had a free reign on media before but with RISE and the country side alliance education on all rural pursuits is forthcoming and once people are educated it will signal the end of your agenda, this is possibly what you are most afraid of)

At least you admit that without coursing, a sanctuary to preserve the hare may be needed. As regards getting a levy from coursing clubs, you are completely off your head if you think that would happen. The coursing community has increased the population of the hare and you think by banning it that same community would pay to stop it becoming extinct because of what you have done! Laughable. 
As has been put to you before, the mechanics and physiology of a hare is different to a human so you therefore cannot come to your conclusion that studies show a hare is terrified. But again, I’m not surprised you ramble on like that AGAIN. 
I am not avoiding any question. There is no horrific ordeal. I have seen hundreds of hares through the years be making their way with plenty time to the escape only for it to slow or turn and give the greyhounds a few turns before heading to the escape again and home unharmed? Now, it doesn’t seem like anything frightened would do that yet the hare does it? Its the hares nature, something you would not understand. Can you explain this without going off topic

Again John, you continue the same route with repeating the same stuff which frankly, is getting boring. You are losing this debate, there is no doubt about that. I reckon if you spent less time on that greyhoundnuts and more time doing some research you might increase your chances. 
I want to ask a question of you, and please don’t ramble off on a spiel on terror, mauling artic hare etc etc. You mention a sanctuary to maintain hare population in Ireland because if there was a ban this population would reduce. How will this be funded? Where will the land be? Will the state have to pay, will it be yourself? Or will it depend on donations? Will it have to be done in every current coursing area in order to maintain the 18 fold increase in these places? Or will it be just the one area to prevent extinction? To bring something like that into your debate when you were struggling, you must have done some research on it, and be able answer those few questions. 
Please don’t ramble off now. Just answer them

i note you consistently ignore to retort on points regarding conservation, coursing greyhounds etc and what answers you have to these elements? john you repeat the same mantra which may sound good to you but as the debate changes in regards to other elements of coursing you are left on the fence without any answers, and answers based in fact may i add. opinion polls are not fact based and do not relate to general consensus, if they were, there would be no need of general elections.
intelligent debate is lacking quite a lot here, your posts read like mad cap rantings, this is probably to try and cover up the fact that once the surface is scratched you dont seem to have any answers whatsoever, just a belief.

Running scared? I have given you so many facts and figures at this point and you write them off as being bogus and false. It’s pathetic. I would much prefer a more intellectual debate at this stage. I can’t understand how you haven’t grasped that a coursing dog will not keep chasing a drag. They stop chasing it after they are saplings. We see this every year! You see, while actually working with animals, you realise what it is they want and need. 
I really don’t think I need to be lectured about compassion with all I have done for the care of animals. Whether you like it or not John, you don’t have a leg to stand when it comes to this with all we have seen in the past I.e. strangling hare, broken glass on field etc. etc., we know you will cast this aside and try and put it on coursing, but that argument has been well lost. The reason I feel compelled to mention that again is because of your sick attempts to call me un compassionate 
Now, I never said a hare needs a coursing club, but what we do know, (again from the facts) is that the hare population does need the coursing club.
One last time John I am going to ask you the question you keep trying to evade. When ARAN are pursuing a ban on drag coursing, will you be supporting them, or not?
This is not as you suggest something of the future, but something they are looking for right now. I would just like to know your HONEST position on this?

You’re inability to answer a simple question shows everyone all they need to know about you. You go recruiting vegan groups across the world to support you, are you vegan John??

You once again retort to putting up the the wildlife rangers report from a few meeting. I can do the same for you, it’s just absolutely pointless and therefore serves the same purpose. Shall i put up the records from a few horse meeting where horses had to be put down. What is your stance on this? Would you pursue a ban on horse racing? Because you appear to have one agenda and don’t care for any animal otherwise.

Your “colleague” John Carmody, however much I disagree with his opinions, at least has an issue at heart. He wants all animals banned from being used in sport. And isn’t, like you, after just one sport and trying to sneakingly suggest alternatives. 
The reason my question is not a trick question is because drag coursing is a sport. Afar want animals not used in sport and Aran want to ban greyhound racing so therefore they will want it banned. No figment of my imagination there. I merely want to know if you agree or disagree with this issue. Not hard John, not a trick. Can you answer it?
If you want my opinion on figment of imagination, I think you should look at your well documented hatred of the catholic church and coursing and then coincidentally manage to bind the two of these together in your book as been the reason for hating coursing. 

I don’t see where greyhound nuts comes into your argument? What has it got to do with your issue? Avoidance tactic maybe? It’s the same as me putting up some of the horrors so called animal lovers have done. Have a read as you would put it :
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7920217/Did-the-RSPCA-drive-a-man-to-suicide.html

Is there a difference with me putting that in as you putting GN into your argument? Not really. Yet I find it pointless, and you have to constantly put it in. Tells a story of your argument in itself. 
Yet, the “lonely” comment may have come from a post of your own saying it was a lonely campaign and looking for people to give you the “thumbs up” because you were the only one giving yourself a thumbs up. Again, shows the gulf in support. Our support is right here on our doorstep.
I think if you want to have an argument with the greyhound nuts posters, you should maybe comment on that site rather than bringing it here. 

So John, will you answer the simple question if YOU agree with the views to ban horse/track/drag racing, or not?

Drag racing, is greyhound racing. Two greyhounds racing each other, is greyhound racing… As the name suggests. And one again, by refusing to look at the numbers, you show just how little you are about the hare. The numbers do matter, they are the most important thing to any animal. No species wants to be wiped out, and that is what you would risk. If you want to look at NI again, there are more hares dying there as a result of the ban. I spoke to some people who hint in the uk, and they informed me that the would estimate more foxes are killed since the ban has come due due to the use of eagles and other means while hunting. It is your agenda and perception that is on “borrowed time”. As for demolishing all my arguments, this is once again laughable. I am concerned about your imagination. 
John, this debate has been a steep learning curve for you. You have realised that if 60 hares were to die during a coursing season, your ban would result in about 1100 dying in that year instead. You have realised how the Irish coursing club is vital for the population of the hare and hence you have admitted a sanctuary may be needed to do the job of the coursing club. You have realised you don’t fully agree with the views of aran in that they want to ban greyhound racing.
You have learnt that there is a difference in the coursing greyhound to the track greyhound in that they will not chase a lure and only a live hare. 
There might be hope for you yet John, I sense the potential, and I’m no trying to sound condescending there. It’s not too late, the coursing and country folk are a forgiving type and joining the real carers and preservers for the hare and greyhound in the coursing club, while not good for your pockets, will be good for your conscience

I take you cannot give a reply without being so long winded. A sure sign you are struggling and losing. I have looked through the report John. Not once is terror or suffering written. Is this something you decided you knew more about and decided to throw it in there to boost your campaign? 
Once again, more fabrication from you. 
Now GN is nothing to do with me but you say you are not on it yet not only are you told the important stuff by your “disgruntled friend” but you also get told all the drivel. What would be the point in that? You and your “friend” must be very close! Give it up, obvious you are on it not that anyone cares. Apart from you. 
John, thus far every single one of your arguments have been shown to be fabricated or just completely and utterly made up. In the not so distant past you were outside the gates of Clonmel protesting with John Carmody. Do you share the same views as him? One single question there. The answer need only be short. 

Now unless you have seen this sport first hand in Ireland I think you are in no position to comment. You are after been asked to comment on this by a man who eats meat and has no problem killing animals as long as it is not coursing.
I notice he has also refused to answer my question but instead tweeted to vegan aus and vegan Tanzania to come to his aid

Calm down john, did that touch a nerve? No distracting of public attention. It is merely pointing out to your recruitments what you really are. And that is someone with a hatred for the coursing industry who will do all he can to have it wiped out and really does not give a damn about the well being of any animal. This is quite obvious by the arguments and statements you come out with, and the methods you use to further your agenda. 
The issue here is the effect of coursing, an not solely the snippet of an npws report. 
The fact is muzzling has had a great effect on coursing (again, look at the npws report in 07) and none of these other countries introduced muzzling at any stage. So there is a difference with the ban there an you cannot compare such arguments. However, what you can compare is that the hares are dying out in these countries now, yet thriving in this country. No coincidence there. 
The argument in favour of coursing if looked at by the neutral is a far stronger one than any argument you have put forward. Because any sensible person will realise using part of one report that suits your agenda is not a good argument. 
This is no comedy sketch and no laughing matter as you put it John, this is serious. What you are trying to do is detrimental to 2 species of animal. Without coursing clubs, the hare risks extinction, just go out and reduce its numbers 18times over at every coursing meeting location and see then how it would “feel”. I don’t see where your comedy sketch comes into that fact.
I understand the view of animal rights people in fighting for something they actually believe in, but you, I don’t get. Fighting something you personally hate instead of for something you believe in. 

I don’t know where you got your dictionary, but coursing does not define as cruelty. Nice try to throw it in and fool someone however. 
Can I have a link to this nwps report John? Because when looked at from the physiological point of view, it is impossible for anyone to be able to say a report shows “evidence of terror and suffering”.
Unless the report also performed specialist procedures and studies of the hares anatomy while coursed, then I highly doubt these finding can be legit in describing “terror”. Sounds more like something you would say yourself. 

Now John, you say the hare population is just as strong in non coursing areas as coursing areas. Here is a quote taken from the queens university findings: 
“We indirectly tested the efficacy of such management by comparing hare abundance within preserves to that in the wider countryside. In real terms, mean hare density was 18 times higher within ICC preserves than the wider countryside.”.
The reason for this is not abuse as you try to fool people into thinking, but protection, inoculation and care all year round.
So once again John, your blatant lies are brought to the surface by the facts

You are saying that there will be a difference in the views of ARAN between drag racing, and track racing? Both using a mechanical lure. Both racing greyhounds. ARAN want to ban greyhound racing as written below:
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/93329
Can I therefore take your word on behalf of ARAN that they support drag racing?
To say that they will not oppose drag and oppose track is total nonsense. Do you agree with them that track should be banned John?
I will not distance myself from any coursing meeting. Might I add, that all the meetings mentioned above have a greater population of hares in their area because of the meeting. Are you going to distance yourself from that FACT?
This evidence of suffering that you refer to is happening in nature. The difference in coursing is that the hare has a greater chance of escape and survival than it ever would in the wild without the coursing club. Are you going to distant yourself from that FACT? 
Coursing involves racing 2 greyhounds, against one another to test speed and endurance. It has nothing to do with sick twisted minds killing a hare as you horribly and unjustifiably try to suggest. The hare is trained to the field, trained to where the escape is. Any hare that would get pinned by a MUZZLED dog, would usually have slowed itself, or purposely come back from the escape and have more turns. And before you say thats all nonsense, i have videos of hares go to the escape and come back out, go again and go back out and gruel the dogs to a stand still, and then take the escape no problem. There are people all up along the coursing run to be in to get the hare in the UNLIKELY event of one being pinned and preventing injury.
You’re back again to talk about rigging an opinion poll, John I must ask, do you ever get bored of yourself? Because this constant repeated mantra is very monotonous. 
Then again to mention false allegations by people on GN, what has that to do with me or this argument? It was you’re friends that called me a “sick person”. Will you distant yourself from them?
So, I have answered all your questions, I will not distant myself from any meeting. 
Do you agree with ARAN looking to ban racing or not? As you have not answered it but sneakingly trying to get around it anyway possible?

Once again, you fail to answer my question, it shows you dont care about any animal, just your coursing ban. There will never be a ban, especially after what happened in uk as a result. 
A few final thoughts John. You constantly talk about the GN members being a nasty type. Then you try and show me a person in the uk being arrested for animal cruelty and you attempt to tarnish us all with the same brush. This coming from the person who has said about pro-coursing people that we “play the man and not the ball tactics”. I could show you cases in the uk where animal activists are jailed. This year alone, 7 people received 50years in jail between them! What is the difference between you and them? Not much. You try to “play the man” when it suits you, and then play the lonely target of abuse when it doesn’t suit you. All pointing to you being nothing but a hypocrite. 
You say you want drag coursing, yet when questioned on whether you will stand for it against your colleagues, you will not answer as you couldn’t care less about anything but your own agenda, and getting that agenda via any deceitful way possible. Looking for drag, and then wanting to have it banned is further hypocrisy. 
I have also noted from every single argument, you fail to accept independent facts (these are figures, numbers of the whole, percentages etc etc which I have given you) and say these facts are incorrect. Yet you pursue your own agenda with what you call facts. Facts are not a one off video that you have, they are not snippets of a report (without full figures) that suit your agenda. 
I would have loved to see you on an opposing debate team when I was in school. Easy pickings is what we called someone that argued like you.
We can see you do not care for the population of the hare, the greyhound and probably any other animal. You have one agenda alone, and you will attempt to get this by any way possible. No matter what deceit you need to do to get there. If animal activists were to have any chance, you would be most surely be the reason for spoiling it.

I have not accused you of anything. I have proven it with factual based evidence. No personal attack so playing the victim I’m afraid is of no benefit to you. 
The queens university study was not only taken at a time of coursing so your point about this being the reason for increased numbers is totally incorrect.
Greyhound nuts is a forum. Not the coursing clubs official site so again, this is pointless drivel.
Again you ramble on with the same points as always. No change.
I have asked for a copy or a link to this npws report which above states that it can show evidence of extreme terror. I know it is only a report and not factual evidence but either way, it is impossible for it to be able to make this statement as written above. So all I ask is a link or copy for this report. Nothing else, and no long winded essay about cock fighting, bringing unionist and republicans together etc. etc. which has nothing to do with coursing.

In fairness John, you are misleading people by stating that Aran have no objection to greyhound racing. The following is taken directly from their website:

We need you to take action to help support the campaign to abolish greyhound racing. Please get in touch with us if you can organize a peaceful protest or leafletting session outside of a greyhound stadium near you. ARAN will provide everything you need to get active to bring about a future where greyhound racing will be a thing of the past and where these majestic, gentle, mis-understood creatures will be respected.

You are tying yourself up in knots here and, in my opinion, have lost all credibility….

I think you’ll find when I mentioned those “waffling” points that you mention, I did it in the fact of showing you the pointlessness of the arguments you put forward. Maybe it is you and not Padjoe that should attend specsavers, I never said you called me a sick person, it was a comment put to you by one of your recruits in the vegans. Again, this was to show the pointlessness of your argument bringing GN to the fore. 
You have put up another long post, and again ignored the fact that hares have a better chance of survival in a coursing field than in the wild. In fact, they have a very small chance of being injured but 99% chance of coming out stronger. 
The reason you sense potential in me is because I am open to all sides of the argument, and for me, the pro coursing argument is definitely the better choice for all animals involved. 
From your last post, I think you should stick to the books and give up on debating, this may be where your “potential” lies. 
Seen as you are unable to argue the main points of coursing and just have this report in mind, can I sum up that I estimate that the approx mortality rate from above lies at about 0.78%, give or take of the total hares taken in by coursing in the year. Yet the increase in hare population as a result of coursing is 1800%.
Your argument is futile. I’m sure you’ll try and blow this off as irrelevant, but if you want to focus on this report, maybe more homework is required. 

I am merely showing the problems with humanising the animal. It is incorrect, and just more looking for your emotional response in people who don’t know better. 
John, you have lost that and this argument a long time ago. Hence your constant rambling and returning to old failed points time and time again. I noticed there in your last ramble that you failed to answer my question. 
Are you going to go against your animal activist colleagues when they are fighting against drag coursing? Or will you be on the other side, fighting for racing?

This has been debated and it was shown how the man made equipment is not possible for the type of greyhound involved.
The reason you have been asked via twitter to comment on this is because John Fitzgerald is refusing to answer an important question with regards his campaign and is now attempting to escape the debate. There was no debate “raging” as he suggests, it was one on one for the last number of days.
And of all people, someone in the uk should know the negative effects the hunting ban has had there, ie. the reduction in population of the hare since the ban

the reason coursing was banned in other countries is because the dogs were not muzzled, here in ireland they are muzzled.
Regarding the npws report, does it state anywhere that coursing is either A) inherently cruel? B) that any illegal practice was performed?
you choose polls as a point of debate, yet ignore an independent study showing hare population is greater in the republic than up north.
regarding greyhound n, did your conspiracy theory disappear regarding icc members passing you info and are you now just admitting what we all know, that you are actually on the site despite your inference that it was a members site, its hilarious john.
i look forward to your non response to my questions raised, i presume a response will be another long winded text without substance, as i said before, you have a belief, but no answers once the surface is scratched

I am not asking you to speak for other groups, I am asking you to speak for yourself? Will YOU support ARAN, or will YOU not? It’s a simple question you seem afraid to answer for some reason?

It’s been pointed out so often by now, hares don’t do as well where there is no coursing, how can you ignore the facts I have given you already? 
The scientific facts are against you with regards the hare’s physiology and neurology, yet you choose to ignore this also! And “karate chopped after being battered into the ground”. Where do you start to make up all this stuff!
The most important thing to us (believe me, I know because I am part of the coursing club) is that conservation and protection of the hare is number 1 on our priority list. What you say against this is a complete lie. 
This is laughable how you continuously ignore the fact on drag, the coursing greyhound will not follow a drag. This is fact. If you knew anything about the animal, you would know this. Therefore, drag is not an alternative. In fact, you would result in a huge decline in the coursing greyhound population by bringing a ban to coursing. Again, I doubt this issue would bother you too much. 
So John, if this isn’t to be my last reply, are you going to answer for YOURSELF, will you support ARAN looking to ban drag, or not?

Some nerve? I would think there is no difference there than your nerve writing terrorise and suffering in your articles and campaigns. It’s how you see it! I see enticing activist groups to lobby an individual in whatever way they see fit is nothing short of harassment and bullying. Something you say was not so nice when happening to yourself at work. Do onto others and all that…
Do you have to post details of an individual because he/she is doing well for themselves in life? Or is it because you have realised your argument is a complete and utter failure and therefore the last ditch is to try and have good honest hard working people intimidated by your agenda? I thought you were all about getting your agenda through by getting at the government and law makers? Has this failed so attempt another tact?
Incidentally, your beloved npws report show muzzling was a success from what I wrote in a previous post, ie. mortality rates falling 8fold. 

Avoiding direct questions again John ! How about some of my queries ?

Once again I am staggered by the amount of anger against a sporting pursuit which lets face it 90% is based on total urban ignorance. It saddens me that a much more important article about HSE cut backs to seriously sick children gets far less interest than a fluffy little hare. Shame on you and go back to ‘veganland’!

Once again, a long winded comment repeating all the same stuff. I never asked you to speak for ARAN, I asked you to speak for yourself and tell us where your own personal opinion lies. You try to evade the question yet I don’t know why. I’m not giving a long reply AGAIN explaining why there isn’t cruelty involved. I know this from my logical, compassionate and not brainwashed mind.
I can’t understand why you can’t give your personal option on whether you will support Aran to ban drag, or not? Nothing to do with ARAN, nothing to do with hypothehetical situations, just your own personal viewpoint

John, your analogy on the cat is hilarious. Did that same “gurrier” result in saving thousands of cats at the same time? The fact that you had to put in that statement shows you really are clutching at straws.
You may think and “advise” respectful polite lobbying but the fact is, this is not happening. Someone trying to earn a living listening to that nonsense is harassment. This same company you are urging people to “contact” have saved more animals than you or your friends could ever fathom. Coursing has many sponsors but by now singling out this pet world whose main contribution is the greyhound industry you have shown your true colours that it is ONLY the greyhound person you target and don’t give a damn about any other animal. Is this something you should have been trying to hide?
It has also shone light on why you ignore to answer if you are vegan, and why you also don’t oppose horse racing. You are not a real animal rights activist, far from it in fact. You merely are someone with a lot of time on his hands who has a hatred for the greyhound industry. 

John, once again you have failed to answer my question. In the unlikely event that drag racing (which you are arguing for now) replaces coursing, and when your animal rights colleagues are looking to ban drag, are you also going to agree with them and look for the ban, or will you oppose them and look to keep racing? It is a simple question with a simple yes no answer to your reply? Nothing else please.

At the top of this article is written “terror and suffering inflicted on hares”. This is a fabrication as this is never mentioned on the reports. And that is undeniable. 
It does not go without saying that they suffer terror and high stress levels. This has been proven to you in the past from studies done on the hares anatomy and physiology etc. Repeating the same phrases of terror, fear etc. etc. is without substance or factual evidence. Merely your personal opinion. 
Now, I mention your colleagues in the pursuit of a ban on coursing and note that they want a complete ban on any animal used in sport. Ie. they want horse racing banned, track and drag racing banned. They want no animal used in sport and prefer to have these species decline hugely in population in the wild. 
Do you openly disagree with your animal rights activists opinion on this subject??
I find this hard to believe as your argument against coursing is almost exactly the same as theirs against drag racing, track and horse racing. You use the same phrases and same plea for an emotional response. Ie. They select a race where a few horses were whipped or fell and had to be destroyed and describe this is as the norm and what racing is all about. They also say that taking a horse in from the wild to put in training is stressful and causes suffering just as in the case of the hare. Ye’re points gets very tedious. The fact is you would be happier to see extinction of animals, be it hare, greyhound, horse etc than have them used in sport. 
Or would you, John Fitzgerald (in the hypothetical situation) openly come out in opposition to your colleagues when they debate to have drag racing banned, after your fight to introduce it?

John, you again go off on a long winded post repeating the same stuff. Im not sure how often it needs to be pointed out that dog fighing, cock fighting, etc are nothing like coursing. It has been explained to you that drag is NOT a replacement for coursing. I appreciate that you are constantly repeating your points because you are looking to further your “air time” as mentioned above. 
Drag cannot replace coursing. A coursing greyhound will not chase a drag as it is unnatural! How hard is that to understand? 
You have also mentioned earlier that the muzzling of dogs has not effected the outcome and your so called “cruelty” in coursing. A NPWS report in 2007 showed that mortality of a hare in 1993 (before muzzling) was 15.2% yet in 2003 was just 2.3%. This report also showed that the % hare released increased for other reasons also (not by muzzling alone). This would be explained by the care taken, ie. the inoculation, feeding etc.
Would your “sanctuary” afford this care if it were to exist? 
You seem to think that leaving the population of the hare in the hands of the coursing club will have a negative effect? Yet the report shows a constant increase in hares released and also the total increase in hare population.
Your daft statements such as hare coursing linked 100% with criminality is absolutely laughable. Just like that statement of the most despicable evil practices devised by man. Further showing how you will come up with any sort of figures and statements to further your agenda. 
You say no campaign wants to get rid of mechanical lure chasing? More lies John? We all know of the groups who oppose horse racing and want to see a total ban on it, as well as track racing, will drag not fall into this!?
The true facts are that as a result of similar campaigns as your own, the population of the hare is decreasing in the countries that banned coursing, ie. Australia and the UK. Yet, the republic has an increase in hare population as a result of keeping the coursing. Now, I predict your response to that statement will be again that “the artic hare does fine without coursing and increases in population”, yet there have been no conclusive studies done into the population of the artic hare. In fact, sightings of this hare are greatly reducing which would suggest a decline in population. But there are no figures. 
The fact is, you use the same excuses and tactics as have always been used and failed. As well as the same tactics as those opposing horse racing. Your lies have been brought to the fore and your avoidance tactics will no longer work. The public are onto this. I will no longer further your beloved air time. Your argument has been comprehensively thrown out the window by everyone you have attempted an argument with on this page. That tells the whole story.

You are right on one point, I will not distant myself, because if a hare is pinned, I know that same meeting has saved 18 hares for that one. These are the facts. I feel you run from these figures because you lack any compassion for the animal. The points coming from me refuted? I have produced study and figure after figure. You have one report. Again you talk about training a greyhound to follow a lure, you still haven’t grasped that they will not chase it. It’s in their DNA. Unless you can train DNA, your idea is absolute nonsense. What would result is the eradication of the coursing greyhound.
The fact of the matter is, you have one point that you go back to, yet fail to take on board that these numbers are minuscule. I have spent my day working with animals and caring for them, while you are online urging people to ring and harass good honest workers that put their money into a sport they love. Compassionate? I think not. 

http://www.qub.ac.uk/sites/Quercus/Projects/2010/3HarecoursinginIreland/

Ah John. If ever you had any credibility, it is surely gone now. To say racing 2 greyhounds against each other is not greyhound racing is hilarious. And then to say I fear the talk of drag when I have already explained why it is not viable to you on numerous occasions. It baffles me that a “critically acclaimed” person like yourself doesn’t have the capacity to grasp that a coursing greyhound with 100 years breeding behind it, will not stay chasing a lure. 
The only reason I can find that you go back to that argument and afraid to talk about all the other points and also unable to take on the actual figures from the above report shows me that when the surface was scratched. You really came up lacking.