To answer your question. No. There is no disciplinary sanctions set out in these new rules when and not if a dirtbird makes false allegations against an officer. This new system automatically assumes that the Officer in question is guilty until proven innocent. Unlike the rights that the prisoner and every other citizen of the state has of innocent until proven guilty.

That is a effing disgrace ! So anything can AND WILL be said against decent law abiding working people ….. Words fail.

Eileen an Officer can be suspended while they are “under investigation”. That means that there have been no formal charges laid ie: automatically assumed guilty until your innocence is proven and only then can you be returned to work. And that suspension stays on their personal file even though they have been found innocent.
This same system was tried in the Scottish prison service. 98% of the complaints made were found to be malicious. And only when they introduced a law making it an offence with strong penalties to make malicious complaints through this system that the system actually worked.

Typical hug -a-thug mentality .

Eimear-the answer is no.

Would this not be delt with under the deformation act. Obviously the complaint would have to be made by the affected officer.

I agree, the lags will have a field day and will tie the system in knots with spurious reports of abuse, rights being violated, discrimination etc. and the do-gooders will sit back and congratulate themselves for a job well done. Only in Ireland….. The laughing stock of Europe !

Amen to that des.

God be with the days when prison & the threat of prison was a disincentive to commit crime. If our school children, mentally ill & elderly were only as well looked after as our criminals.

Have you downloaded an album illegally? Smoked even a small amount of cannabis? Had a cigarette in a business premises? Owned a TV with no licence?

All these (and many more) are punishable with prison time under Irish law. So before making throwaway, populist comments like the above remember that it could be you in there.

Boom.

‘Subject to disciplinary sanctions’, within the prison system.
No external or impartial investigation against these vexatious complaints’, and no risk of a further charge, conviction or jail sentence.
You are acknowledging that prison officers are left to trust in a procedure that the inspector of prisons (and you too semingly) believes is; ‘flawed, incomplete, and not in accordance with best practice’.

The P19 system cannot add extra time to a prisoners sentence. And as such is virtually impotent. Loss of privileges means very little to todays convict. Eg: Loss of evening recreation. With TV’s in every cell not exactly a great hardship. Loss phone calls. Ahh no. Even inmates in the Block are allowed to make 1 phone call per week same applies to visits.
The P19 system has been eroded so badly that there is no longer any deterrent punishment.
What now needs to be done is what happens in some of the US states. A District Judge hears the disciplinary reports and can add extra time (up to 2 years) to a prisoners sentence. Said time to run consecutively.
And as for the inspector of prisons report I would refer you to the Visiting Committees report that found the total opposite to the Judge and have been visiting the prisons a hell of a lot longer than him.

Are you a screw?

Are you a Dirtbird? And yes I am an Officer.

@Mick Jordan, IIRC is it not he Penal Reform Trust that is eroding the p19 procedures?

The new legislation deals with the most serious (‘Category A’) complaints, which include assaults. It is right that these will now be subject to new procuedres, including external investigation. IPRT has long campaigned for an independent/external complaints mechanism, as it protects both prison staff and prisoners alike.

In the new legislation, published yest, 57B (5) deals with the issue of “vexatious” complaints: “The Director General may decide not to appoint an investigation team if he or she is satisfied that the complaint is vexatious, without foundation or falls outside the scope of this Rule. If such a decision is made the Director General shall document the reasons for the decision and arrange for the complainant, the Governor and the Inspector of Prisons to be advised of the decision and the reasons for the decision.”

It is right that the person/people against whom a complaint is made (whether prison staff or prisoner) are not the ones to decide whether or not the complaint is vexatious!

The complaint cannot be deemed vexatious until an investigation is carried out.

A complaint can only be found to be vexatious without investigation if there is irrefutable proof that Officer/Officers named in said complaint were in no way involved with the complainent.
And such most complaints will be refered to the investigation unit.

How can a complaint be deemed ‘vexatious’ or not unless there is an investigation ,by which time the Prison officer’s reputation and ability to carry out his/her job to the high standard he /she engages has been irreparably eroded . Hows that I hear you ask …. Prisoners talk to each other and they talk to each other about officers in much the same way , altho more maliciously, as school children discuss their teachers. So how is the (wronged) officer to be protected against malicious intent ? AND carry on doing their job ?

You tell ‘me mark.

You tell ‘em mark, poxy auto correct.

Irish penal reform-I suggest you broadcast the facts about the attacks on staff and the physical and mental damage inflicted on our decent brave prison officers by the violent evil thugs placed in their care.

Well said mark.

Would this not be felt with under the deformation act. Obviously the complaint would have to be made by the affected officer.

Agreed. Not all laws are justified. I’m pretty sure the people who put this country in the toilet are allowed to complain to whomever they want from the comfort of their own home, but someone who doesn’t pay their tv license, sells some weed, protests where the government don’t like it is supposed to be rightly buggered until they can’t stand up straight.

Apparently not.
It seems there is no end of departments, committees, trusts, organisations, authorities and even conventions, to provide oversight for the treatment of prisoners.
Why don’t any of these people ever volunteer their time to provide oversight for the treatment of these criminals victims?

Because the ” Irish Penal Reform ” are actually a secret society of ex lags, their whole operation stinks of dirty track suits and Amber Leaf dust!

Dog beside sandwich cold into violin house yes.

Go back to your ivory tower, these people have no right to complain. They are there for a reason.

Firstly , The title is PRISON OFFICER .
Secondly , there are already procedures in place for any prisoner who have
any reason to complain about any staff member ,to make that complaint.
They do not need another layer of impartiality . They are prone to dishonesty and
are also well known for their mischief making.

How about you read the title again.

Joe – and that reason can be very damn trivial. I assume you’d be in favour of people not being repeatedly beaten to within an inch of their lives while done a one month stretch for parking fines?

Stupid, stupid comments on here. It’s like I’m reading The Sun today.

What’s stupid is you giving an example of people doing a month for parking fines. Without exception, people who arrive in jail for not paying fines are processed ‘at the gate’ and released and never make it into the man prison. It is rubbish to suggest prisons are jam packed with people who couldn’t afford their tv licence or whatever.

No it isn’t. There’s all kinds of rubbish that carries custodial sentences you regularly hear of being enforced, including non payment of fines. Contrary to what you might believe we jail a high percentage of our male population by EU standards. For reasons best known to themselves the Irish judiciary are very reluctant to jail women.

lost lenore
you have no idea of what you are talking about .If you have actual knowledge of someone ”being repeatedly beaten to within an inch of their lives” then I suggest that you report such violence to the authorities. But I suspect you are telling lies or making stuff up to suit your own agenda.

Agreed in one respect- non payment of fines generally does result going to jail, but also leaving jail as quickly. They don’t keep them in, they are literally processed and given release straight away- a matter of hours. You can be quite sure the vast majority of the actual prison population deserve to be there.

@Ruth Barry, it undermines every officer in the system because the onus is now on an individual to prove his innocence when a complaint is made, as opposed to the system proving his guilt. If the accusation is proved to be malicious the sanctions for the prisoner are minimal, such as loss of evening recreation or access to the tuck shop. On the other if a malicious accusation is wrongly found to be true hand the officer could end up suspended, sacked, or even face criminal charges.

Until there are appropriate sanctions in place to punish malicious accusers, ie time added on to their sentences, and the record of any suspension accruing for the officer from such a complaint is expunged from their record, I can’t see any officers cooperating with the new investigators.

@Lost Lenore, you seem to have the impression that every prisoner gets beaten to within an inch of their life the minute they walk in the gate. You are casting serious aspersions on the conduct and character of every officer in the Irish Prison Service.The beatings you seem to think are endemic in the system simply do not and could not happen.

You seem to forget that most prisoners are career criminals with life long histories of criminality. The people in for fines, TV licences, etc, do no longer than a night in prison, if that. More often than not they get turned around within hours of coming in the gate. Seriously, get off the boards and find a thug to hug. While you’re at it see if you can find someone to help you get your facts straight.