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Dublin: 12 °C Wednesday 19 June, 2013

Changes to points system will see increased penalties for speeding, using phones

The planned changes could also cut the penalties for driving without a valid NCT – from five points down to three.

Speeding will become a three-point offence under Leo Varadkar's new proposals.
Speeding will become a three-point offence under Leo Varadkar's new proposals.
Image: Joe Dunne/Photocall Ireland

TRANSPORT MINISTER Leo Varadkar has today published proposals for a review of Ireland’s penalty points system – including proposals to raise the penalties incurred for offences like using a mobile phone while driving.

The Department of Transport’s review proposes to increase the number of penalty points incurred by drivers for using handheld phones while driving, as well as speeding or failing to wear seat belts, from two penalty points to three.

Simultaneously, it also outlines plans to cut the penalties for other offences like driving without a valid NCT, or dangerous parking – intending to reduce the penalty from five points, and a compulsory court appearance, down to three points.

The Department has compared the current points system to similar systems in place in ten other jurisdictions, seeking to decide whether the current sanctions are the best way of improving road safety.

Aside from updating the penalty points model, the review also hopes to result in greater harmony with the penalty points regime operating in Northern Ireland – possibly leading to an eventual system where both jurisdictions will recognise penalty points incurred on either side of the border.

The plans will now be sent forward to the all-party Oireachtas committee on Environment, Transport, Culture and the Gaeltacht, which will give its thoughts on the changes.

Those which survive the review process will then be incorporated into a new Road Traffic Bill to be published later in the year.

In a statement Varadkar said he wished to ensure “coherence” in the penalties applied to drivers breaking the rules, and avoid circumstances were individual offences could result in disproportionate penalties.

Read: How you could end up with a hefty bill if you crash on the M50

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Comments (75 Comments)

  • while I can just about cope with people speaking on there phone it is the people who read and write texts that really blows my mind

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  • NCT is such a money racket. Totally proven by the fact that they now back-date it. “this car is safe for two years……but, because it was expired for 6 months, it is now only safe for a year and a half” …. what a joke.

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  • Points for fools that who don’t know how to go around roundabouts. Thats one for you Varadkar. And fools that don’t know where the indicator lever is.

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  • if you’ve a foreign licence you can speed away apparently you won’t collect points, the current system wasn’t clocking them up, read that somewhere this year

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    • Penalty points do get put on file for people with foreign licenses. Problem is, points only come active if the person changes their licence to an Irish one. Anyone in the EU are allowed to drive here on their licence. They are ment to replace their own licence with an Irish one but it can’t be enforced.

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    • Barry all your info is wrong. Foreign drivers do not have to change their licenses if they have eu licenses & they cannot acummilate points in Ireland.

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    • Sorry to disappoint you Michael but you are incorrect this time.

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    • Barry I had up to 20 foreign drivers driving for me so I doubt I am.

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    • I’ve possibly come across some of them due to my line of work…..

      I should have been clearer earlier, anyone living in Ireland over one year are required to exchange their eu licence for an Irish licence. Anyone outside the eu can only drive for a maximum of one year as long as they have a full licence from their country and an international driving permit in their possession. After a year they must go through the theory test, learner permit then full licence.

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    • Barry whatever line of work your in even if thats in law inforcement your wrong. Are you saying that a professional truck driver in France comes here to live has to do their driving test again. No Barry wrong. Actually if I have a UK license for driving a truck I can swap it without doing any test. We have european licenses here its the eu that sets the standard not our government. Therefore a polish german or any other license once its a full license covers all areas an Irish license covers. I could if I wanted to go to the Uk do my test &,live in Ireland once I have a UK address. If a polish person living here has a polish address nothing has to change.

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    • The pair of you are only half right.

      http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driver_licensing/exchanging_foreign_driving_permit.html

      Furthermore, an EU national is under no obligation to surrender their EU license to an Irish one. Fines will be payable for motoring offenses committed in the State but any penalty points will be indefinitely be applied to a ‘shadow’ license and will immediately come into effect if the person changes their EU license for an Irish one.

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    • Padraig which half did I get wrong I provided the info from that page I thought correctly?

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    • Where you mentioned that you cannot accumulate penalty points, they can. They can be accumulated on a shadow license and when you eventually get an Irish license they are transferred to it.

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  • The only people who will suffer are the professional drivers & thats because to make a living they must break the law however we will,just have to think up new ways of staying legal. Leo I suggest you get the trees & the ditches cut back that would save up to 20 lives a year but that would cost you money.

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  • Pani 11/06/12 #

    Don’t know what I’m more happy about, reading about the reduction in points on the journal on me iPhone or the fact someone just let me pull into the fast lane on the m50. Can type so much faster now I don’t have to slow up for doddery commuters.

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  • Not listening to Madonna while driving will also incur 3 penalty points.

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    • Same old road saftey guff.. just something to keep the guards entertained.. Speed ain’t the problem driver stupidity is.. Road accident figures massaged road speed ratings a joke in so many places.. when u take the number of journeys taken by car per day each year and divide into that the number of car accidents (not pedestrian) you would discover how minuscule the risk ratio is.. And yet they have built an enormous expensive burocratic nonsense around it.. and before you take me to task I lost my father in a road accident.. due to impetuousness, and lack of judgement.. The speed was immaterial. Most of us drive to the road conditions and get by very safely everyday… And the annual road death figures are only going down because the country is flat broke and we ain’t moving about as was, not this guff they feed us with. You can’t legislate for the basic fact there is always a percentage risk in everything we do..

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    • I lived in Victoria Australia for a long time and they got very strict with speeding cameras, radar guns and even have radar guns they can use in mobile police cars. It was a right pain in the arse, but the death toll did go down considerably, in fact it halved since 1989.

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    • ” Most of us drive to the road conditions and get by very safely everyday”
      I’m sorry about your loss Eilish, I hope i never have to go through something like that but……….
      In relation to your statement it’s the few that don’t drive according to road conditions that are the cause of many accidents and therefore there has to legislation to control bad driving habits.

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  • I must admit I can’t see the logic in the idea that we’re being too lax with speeding offences, yet dangerous parking is currently being treated too harshly. I can’t remember the last time someone speeding endangered my wellbeing, yet a couple of times I’ve come around a blind corner to see a car parked skeyways well within the 5 metres of the turn, causing me to brake or turn quite sharply to avoid it. Obviously it’s not as common as speeding, but when it happens it’s far more dangerous.

    And why this sudden interest in the speed that we do anyway? It’s known fact that most people speed in at least some circumstances, it’s also a known fact that it’s not that dangerous, and the enforcement system is set up as such. The Gardai set up cameras, and speed vans are set up, to make it look like they’re making an effort, but there are online maps telling you where the speed cameras are, and the vans are brightly lit up, they must be in plain view, on a road with a speed camera sign. And fellow motorists will kindly flash you to let you know that they are there. Essentially it’s just an elaborate game, the Gardai make it look like they’re putting in the effort, and we pretend like we’re obeying the law. The only sensical reason to have speed limits is so that if someone is driving dangerously, the Gardai can nab them on speeding, because dangerous driving, or driving without due care is a very hard conviction to make stick.

    I drive about 2 hours a day, mainly on national or regional roads where overtaking isn’t an option. On the routes I usually drive, about a third of my journey I drive under the speed limit, because it’s a suitable speed for that road. On the other two thirds I often end up above the limit, and I rarely find myself behind someone obeying the limit. In fact I get overtaken every now and again. The RSA spin doctors will have you believe you’ll die instantly if you do 55 in a 50 zone, but their statistic that 44% of deaths are due to speeding is derived from the fact that 44% of deadly crashes occur when the car is speeding, not that the speed had anything to do with the crash. And if someone told me that people on average spend 30-40% of their time speeding, I wouldn’t find that hard that to believe.

    Yes people do die from speeding, yes some people drive too fast, but blanket vilification of anybody that drives over the limit, even regularly, shows a serious naivety in relation to road safety.

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  • Jeez Damocles, I’d say are a right hoot at a party.

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  • Overall this looks like a good move to save lives. Don’t speed and don’t use a handheld phone while your driving and youve nothing to worry about. Also he seems to be cutting the points for less dangerous offences such as out of date NCT and parking while not wearing a seatbelt increases.

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    • @Darren Roche

      I find the speed limits very inconsistent in many areas. On some roads they have a sign saying “80″ when there is no way one could drive safely on those roads going more than “50/60″. Yet on other roads that are very wide are “50″ and one could safely go at “80″. They should have a team driving on these roads all over the country and reset the speeds.

      I think a fine of EUR200 should be given as a warning for the first time for speeding, after that it should only run for 2 years not 3 years. I personally think the time is too long.

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    • “The reason why I suggested EUR200 for the first speeding ticket it would be a way of revenue! and it’s giving the driver a slap …. but also giving them 1 chance.

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    • i think we all have to realise though sheila that they are speed limits,ie you should not go any faster than that speed, some of the roads round me are 80, or 100 but in parts it would be dangerous to go any faster than 50, so that would be the speed most sane people would go :0)

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  • Cars/vans should be confiscated on the spot for anybody driving without a licence or while suspended or driving dangerously. Some idiots out there have no respect for the law or safety of others.

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  • The fu****g c***s,2 points is plenty for speeding,i got caught 2weeks ago in a 50kph zone that was the size of a motorway,how can they justify that,it was a 1/2 mile outside of the town with no houses or anything on either side an it was a 50kph zone,it’s a joke

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  • This will make very little difference ( except Leo W**nkercar will be able to pretend he’s actually doing something) without proper enforcement.

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  • Good move. I’d rather see people getting points for things that are a real danger to others like speeding rather than stupid things like out-of-date NCTs or not wearing seatbelts. I never understood how having an out-of-date NCT could be classed as a worse offence than speeding.

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    • Someone not wearing a seatbelt is putting themself at risk.

      Someone driving a car that isn’t roadworthy is putting everyone else at risk.

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    • Putting others at risk is worse than putting yourself at risk. And the NCT is a scam, speeding kills people all the the time, most people who have failed their NCT are not causing a risk to anyone.

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    • Anyone driving a car not deemed roadworthy is a danger.
      Anyone driving without a seatbelt is a danger.
      Anyone driving without signalling properly is a danger.
      Anyone driving without proper insurance is a danger.
      Anyone driving with excessive speed is a danger.
      Anyone driving while talking on their mobile is a danger.
      Anyone driving while texting is a danger.
      Anyone driving while under the influence of drugs or alcohol is a danger.
      Anyone driving while doing their make up is a danger.
      Anyone driving without due care and attention is a danger.
      Anyone driving too slowly on a motorway is a danger.

      In fact anyone driving in a way which is proscribed by the rules of the road is a danger.

      When you get behind the wheel of a tonne of steel and glass you are a potential danger to yourself and other road users. When you get behind that wheel you are agreeing to certain rules and when you break those rules and put people’s lives at risk you should have the full weight of the law thrown at you for your reckless and selfish behaviour.

      “Oh, Yeah, well, I’m a really safe driver, if someone has an accident because they don’t telepathically anticipate me overtaking or my hub cap coming off then that’s like their fault.”

      No it isn’t.

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    • Say what you like, I still think speeding is worse than having an out-of-date NCT.

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    • Damocles. Who is to be punished if the road is the danger?

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  • And as for all those unaccompanied drivers who are learners and drive around.
    It is unbelievable this is allowed to go on.

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  • and where are they going to start pulling for speeding, motorways, the safest of irish roads.

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  • jrbmc 11/06/12 #

    More bullish*t !!!! And easy targets !!! Why don’t they increase fines and penalties for the liars , cheats , tax dodgers , corrupt politicians and Bankers !!!! No cause that would be biting the hand that feeds them…..

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  • increasing points for driving offenses is still not going to make people slow down and not drive while on the phone. It seems to me since the penalties points were introduced it has become a regular sight to see someone on the phone driving. what needs to be done is more Gardai and speed camera vans on the roads. The part time Gardai station closed, were im from and there is no garda presence anymore which has also led to other problems.

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  • Having a to wait 3 months for an NCT = joke
    Seventeen yr olds driving a car FULL of their mates from school = joke
    20yr olds getting cheap insurance through their grandparents EXPIRED license =joke

    Im 42 No points and drive a Tigra my insurance is about €300, my hubby is 41 and his renewal €486=JOKE
    I am SICK of seeing youngsters driving out of my daughters school with tuned up Golf or Starlet full of 6 burly boys and not a full license between them and bombing round the roads – and when they crash we are all supposed to feel sorry for them.

    The roads are often in a shocking state of repair yet I pay road tax and when I park up to go to ATM last week 4 out of 7 cars I walked passed had NO TAX and 2 had neither tax or NCT.

    I was stopped on a Sunday about 7 weeks ago in hubbys car as the NCT had expired (we had a date booked for the monday) Gardai took my details telling me they would report me for the offence of No NCT. Then proceeded to tell me that he was taking the car. I sat stoney face and then pulled out my lovely ENGLISH license at which point he changed his tune and said go, carry on he would let me off this time. He couldnt be bothered with the paperwork Im sure.

    Get the Traffic Corps OUT on the ROAD stopping people for speeding, if people have No NCT yes take the car but NOT IF THEY HAVE A DAT E THE NEXT DAY (MUPPETT), pull the boyyos off the road racing 3 or 4 cars across the road. Take cars off the scrummy mummies chatting away about TOWIE or Kim Kardashian on their mobiles whilst Oisin or Aine sits in the back.

    IN short APPLY the law that exists already and if everyone stopped talking on the phone, driving too fast and acting like goons the roads might be a safer place.

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    • Sue maybe all the cars you saw had a date aswell. Also people cant pay their morgages how can they tax their cars? This country has screwed the motorist its time we screwed back. The NCT is a money making racket. People with 10 yo cars have to get it done every year but the price is still the same.

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    • Wateing 3 months for a NCT, u can do your 1st test 6 months early and 3 months early for every test after that.
      Young drivers ? How do u know they don’t have a full licence. I’d mine at 17
      Price of insurance ?
      I’m 32 and in the last 8 years my policy was always around 1k untill this year as im now driving a boreing car that’s €450

      You do have some fair points later tho.

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  • Yep been done for both

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  • Surprised its only the points they are increasing and not the fine. Its only a revenue making exercise for government, nothing to do with saving lives or road safety.

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  • Agree with you 100% Sheila

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  • Should be 5 points each for speeding and using a mobile phone.

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  • Oh lovely . .

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  • No need for extra points. Road deaths are dropping to record lows every year despite more people on the roads. The vans are catching commuters doing 55 in a 50 when the kids drag racing at 4am are causing the fatalities. Higher points just brings more hardship on commuters and professional drivers trying to do a days work.
    Driving is dangerous and will never be 100% safe.

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  • Cars with no nct,tax or insurance should be confiscated.
    Most points are given for speeding or mobile phone use as both are easy to catch people. All the rest involve proper policing and man hours that we can’t provide.

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    • I agree with you on the insurance point. I don’t really see the danger of not having tax or NCT (unless of course the car is falling apart).

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    • Maybe not dangerous but still illegal.
      Most people only maintain there car to the most basic of levels. And most Irish drivers don’t see the need to properly look after there cars. Oil,tyres,filters,bushings ect are all part of owening a car.
      Motor tax
      Why should I have to pay for it when others don’t ? Agen it is a legal requirement to drive, if u can’t afford it DON’T DRIVE.
      Iv driven nice cara since I was 19 and always have a full window cause they were the type of car that draw Garda attention

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  • Does anyone know anybody who has ever been penalised for speeding or using a phone while driving?

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  • Anyone given points should also be required to do a retest.

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