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Dublin: 10 °C Friday 24 May, 2013

Oireachtas told: ‘Ireland already allows abortion of unviable pregnancies’

Supreme Court rulings mean a foetus which cannot survive outside the womb does not possess ‘life’ under the constitution.

Jennifer Schweppe, Ciara Staunton and Simon Mills (right) attending the Oireachtas this morning.
Jennifer Schweppe, Ciara Staunton and Simon Mills (right) attending the Oireachtas this morning.
Image: Oireachtas

LEGAL EXPERTS have said that the Irish constitution already permits abortions to be carried out in Ireland in cases where a foetus has no prospect of any life outside the womb.

Experts from the University of Limerick, NUI Galway and the Law Library said a Supreme Court ruling in 2009 means that a foetus which cannot survive beyond pregnancy does not enjoy the protection granted in the Constitution to the “life of the unborn”.

The three experts, who said they had prepared their evidence to the committee independent of each other, all said a ruling in the Roche v Roche case in 2009 – delivered by Susan Denham, who has since become the Chief Justice – had determined this.

In that case, the Supreme Court ruled that a separated woman did not have the right to use embryos which had been frozen after being fertilised with sperm from her estranged husband.

The experts – Dr Jennifer Schweppe from the University of Limerick, Ciara Staunton from NUI Galway, and Dr Simon Mills of the Law Library – all said Justice Denham’s ruling meant that an entity which itself was not capable of life outside the womb was not covered by the constitution’s protection of the “unborn”.

The three also argued that the legislation being prepared by the government should also take account of cases that have not yet arisen – with Staunton arguing that the legislation should try to avoid circumstances with another case similar to X came before the courts because of a legal uncertainty.

Mills, a former GP with a master’s degree in medical ethics, has submitted a draft version of legislation which he said would satisfy the needs outlined.

The only reason more cases similar to X had not become before the Irish courts was “simply because of our proximity to the United Kingdom.”

LIVE: Legal experts address Oireachtas on proposed new abortion laws

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Comments (38 Comments)

  • Reg 09/01/13 #

    There was a lady on the VB show last night who last year was refused a termination here despite the fact that the baby would not live for more than a few minutes once born. She was angry that she had to travel to Liverpool to get the services that should have been available to her here. How can a country continue to treat its citizens this way?

    Reply
    • I saw her too, its heart breaking that in her circumstances she was put through that ordeal. Ref, genuinely, all politics aside, can you canvas your own party to change this shambles. All people should email all political representatives of ask parts, to get the law changed. These women, call themselves walking coffins. S are supposed to be free of church influence in this country, but stories like the one heard last night, are happening every week in Ireland.

      Reply
    • it is absolutely barbaric to have this situation .women who are carrying a foetus that is not going to survive being forced to continue full term , ,knowing all the while what lies ahead.
      people should stop dictating to others, and let everyone get on with things, I thought an element of democracy was the respect of different opinions even if it conflicts with your own…the thing is…it is tragic either way …

      Reply
  • what about the 17 year old in foster care who had to get a court ruling to be allowed travel to terminate her pregnancy were baby had no brain?

    Reply
  • If the experts are correct then why was Savita refused a termination when she requested one as clearly she was already miscarrying and her foetus was not viable ?

    Reply
    • @Anthony, Now I’m aware you’re trolling, but just cos I’ve nothing better to do I’m going to correct you. The inquest is starting next week on the Savita case, THAT’S why its gone quiet – everyone attending the hearings today know they cannot pre-empt the findings. They know they will be challenged if they use it as an example case as the full investigation has not been completed yet. Wait for the report yourself before you start thowing accusations at the pro-choice campaign!

      Reply
  • Surely the findings of the Savita investigation should be made available to the committee . It’s her death that sparked this investigation . Is the government deliberately keeping the results under wraps until they put legislation through?

    Reply
  • ” an entity which itself was not capable of life outside the womb was not covered by the constitution’s protection of the “unborn” ”

    Well if that is the case then why are we not legislating directly for that court case outcome?

    This basically means that any non-self-sustaining life-form does not enjoy the protection of the rights of the unborn. This would include therefore any embryo which is not capable of surviving without life-support? That would open up abortion in Ireland, on-demand, up to quite a late time in pregnancy.
    In fact it would allow such a late abortion that actually would be against it (and I am pro-choice in general). Hmmmm.

    Reply
    • How?
      A premature baby, born at 24 weeks gestation has a pretty good chance of survival.. Hey, my partners father was born at 24 weeks, in the 1940s, in a field hospital in a 3rd world country – and he’s still here and strong..

      No country has abortion up to 40 weeks, the maximum limit is usually 24 for the reason outlined above and these babies will always be born rather than aborted.

      Besides that I agree with the point you are making.. From discovery up until at the very least 21 weeks there is no way that foetus can survive without the womb of its mother – so this means it is not ALIVE yet and thus has no “life” to protect..

      Reply
  • These are very rare cases and hard cases make bad law . What about the Irish woman who died last year in London following a legal botched abortion?

    Reply
  • Google , Post Abortion risks if you really care about risks of suicide
    Post Abortion Stress Syndrome (PASS)
    In extreme cases, the PTSD that results from a controversial abortion could lead to suicidal thoughts or tendencies and would require immediate treatment. It’s important to note that this is not a common or expected symptom of PASS, but as with any form of PTSD, it is possible.

    Reply
    • Ignorant scaremongering of the highest order. I’ll just leave this link here. Again. nhttp://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/09/abortions-mental-illness-survey

      Reply
    • ‘Post Abortion Syndrome’ is a ridiculous myth perpetuated by anti-abortion lobbyists who want to shame women into feeling bad about having an abortion. It does not exist in any credible medical textbook or study.

      Some women regret having abortions, that is true and sad. Some women also regret having children. Neither option is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ for everyone; all depends on the free and uncoerced decision of the woman herself.

      Reply
    • Nonsense spouted from the mouth of a pro abort as usual ! You’ll be telling us next that abortion is not about killing !

      Reply
    • MVM 09/01/13 #

      You can find a professional that can claim anything its the bigger picture of the life it could save

      Reply
  • MVM 09/01/13 #

    These imbeciles haven’t a clue what they are doing,have any of then looked at the legislation?

    Reply

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