IF they’d done all those things, IF they’d carried out half the election promises they made, IF they’d cut their own expenses or at the very least be forced to provide receipts for everything that they claim and IF they’d make an effort to really help the people who are struggling in this country instead of treating us all like idiots then maybe I’d have paid without objection.

And IF you already pay a management company fee to ease the burden on local councils and create jobs were tax is paid.

Yes. I think so and the charge should only be applied going forward, people now own their houses should also be excluded and considering most of that category are elderly who might have difficulty paying but feel under pressure to pay, this is grossly unfair and they should definitely be exempt. Also houses that have pyrite are expected to pay but unfinished housing estates are exempt…considering houses that have pyrite are technically unfinished they should come into the same bracket. People also resent the fact that this is very much targetted at homeowners yet we are being told it is not a tax on our homes but for services provided by councils, last time I checked we all use the same services, there is no discrimination, so why is it only homeowners who in a lot of cases are already in negative equity and scraping by paying a mortgage, who have to pay. It should also be capped so we know how much it is going to cost in the future…that scares me, the fact that I have no disposable income now, where will I get money to pay another bill? Anyway yes I agree, I definitely think the goverment could have handled it better and they made a show of themselves.

I would find myself debating a lot more about paying it based on all those ifs, but I still would have to ultimately believe it to be fair for all before I’d pay!

I would be more amenable to water charges if they stopped adding poisons to it certainly. Bur regarding the Household Charge I’d still refuse. I think the idea of paying a tax on your home goes against our Irish psyche. Shelter is a civil right. The idea of taxing a nation of houseowners to pay to pour money down a bank hole and fill the coffers of the banks. Banks that flooded this country with cheap loaned money which fuelled the Housing Market which in turn led to the destruction of the Irish Economy.

The money should be raised by the creation of a 3rd tax band imo.

Cowardice asks the question: Is it safe?

Expediency asks the question: Is it politic?

Vanity asks the question: Is it popular.

But conscience asks the question: Is it right?

And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic nor popular – but one must take it simply because it is right.

Marting Luther King.

And that is why I will continue to say NO – enough is enough

Thanks Ann, but my question was actually trying to get past the rhetoric on the issue and get some considered responses.

Oh- another thing. You are not an oppressed, disenfranchised minority. Your position is both safe and popular and to suggest otherwise is laughable. This is a €100 tax, it is NOT the Civil RIghts Movement.

Back to the actual question- it looks like people are not opposed to the charge in principle, but to how it is being implemented so to summarize a few points that would make it a more palatable charge:

1) Reduction of Minister’s /TD Expenses – I think we can all agree with that one, even though it is not directly linked (in my opinion) the recent reform seem like a step backwards.

2) Management Fee Allowance – I’m afraid that one isn’t going to fly (context – i pay around €1600 p/a)

3) Pyrite Houses – Should clearly be exempt- those guys have been through enough.

Reada- Come on! Trying to claim constitutional protection./claiming it’s to in our Psyche!!! That’s a mad one!! Glad to see you’ll be paying the water charge though!

So- looks like we’re nearly there- anyone else got suggestions?

No. This money is being offset “our” debts. Those debts need to be renegotiated if Ireland is going to have a future.

Whatcha gonna dooo brother… But joking aside, speaks volumes

Not many paying tv licence these days either with all the crap they put on there
That’s right can’t afford to pay and catch us if you can.. Ye will have yer work cut out.. Non registered…
Catch me if ye can..
I want to afford my only cuppa of the day..

Good man Jack. Bit of a late reply, but your points are well made and much appreciated.

I won’t be paying either penalties or water meter installation

How are you going to find us you wally! Wasn’t that why you needed us to register.

Can Pay – Wouldn’t Pay even if it were a fiver! We’ll stick by those that can’t afford it not by Troika bullies!

Join your local #noHouseholdTax group to oppose this Household/Water/Meter Charges! Details http://www.householdtax.org
They want you to pay for your own shackles next. Sorry I meant Water Meter! :)

Haven’t registered or paid, won’t be doing so.
They can stuff their penalties also – they won’t be paid either!

Yes – although they have said people will not go to jail over this issue (I don’t believe them!), I’m still willing to go to jail for not paying!

@ Aoife Barry

just want to say thanks for inserting the most important words.

” according to figures from the Local Government Management Agency.”

Glad to see this media source has adjoined these few words to the end of their article. :O)

Lol.

hahaha agreed Niamh, imagine gettin 100k plus a year to advise ministers to get photos like that taken, i was gonna say we are in the wrong line of work but im changing in to we know the wrong people!

Have you registered jimbo? ;-)

I hope they all end up in a ‘Hell’ where there is nothing but white-hot water-meters to use as poorly spaced stepping stones … through an infinite lake of boiling water.

@ Brendan,

I’d bet me left arm they would bring in new legislation to change the rules if it suits them, answer them better to be sorting out the legislation to scrap the upward only rent reviews policy in this country, that is killing off small businesses and the local corner shops. Wasnt the PDs MacD when he was minister for justice a great one for rushing through new legislation in the middle of the night when it suited him and as this shower of overpaid wasters feel the need to continue on with the FianaGreenPD sleeveen way of doing things we can take it that this shower will do the very same thing.

Why not? This government constantly moves the goalposts and does Uturns when it suits them. Ruari Quinn and student fees is just one prime example.

I already ermailed about the journals biased reporting of this, they are not calling up on any of teh main points, they stated on their site that the amount would be payable should you ever sell your house.. there is no way on gods green earth anyone is doing jailtime for this

You are 100% spot on. I want, I’m entitled, but someone else can pay….no wonder the country is in a mess!

Irish in USA – with not a clue! For a start looking for the car loan, not a chance the bank don’t have the money to lend, absolutely nothing to do with ones credit rating! Also non payment of taxes, (such as the TV licence which is about the only thing here in Ireland that is the equivalent to the new Household Charge) has no impact on your credit rating, in fact when applying for a loan (Car loan or even a mortgage) you are not even asked for a tax clearence certificate (unless it is a commercial loan). It is only in cases where the revenue imposes a mortgage injunction on your assets, then it will affect your credit rating, but it takes a while and a hell of alot more than non payment of the TV Licence or the €100 household charge for that to happen.

If you kept up to speed with the backlash regarding the household charge you’d understand that for the most part people are not objecting to the idea of a household charge ie. property tax, just a tax that is fair (flat tax is not fair) and imposed on those that have most, pay the most, and a tax that takes into consideration the household income and liabilities, in addition that we get a service for that tax from our local authority. This flat tax is not fair when you consider the amount of stamp duty people paid on the purchase of their home. Yes I accept stamp duty is a transaction tax, but in other countries that have a property tax, the govt of that country do not impose a stamp duty up to 9% of the purchase price! Take the UK for example they have a property tax, but stamp duty is 1% – 2% of the purchase price. More importantly, they get a service from their local authority, what we get are pot holes, broken pathways, poorly light walkways, dirty streets etc…

So please Irish-in-USA, when commenting on something you are not fully familiar with – take a look at the bigger picture before making groundless comments that are clearly without understanding of the situation here in Ireland, and clearly has no clue about the bank lending or taxation here too!! And I haven’t even commented on the farcical austerity measures that are imposed on us!

toorkeel, the country is in a mess because of the miss handling of our tax reserves during the ‘boom years’ and the stupid decision of Cowen and Co to cover all banking debt which threw private debt into the laps of the tax payer, ultimately mixing the private debt with our soverign debt. Not because of the ‘I want’ attitude you refer to!

Irish in USA, aka hurler on the ditch!

Toorkeel, you just said it!!! “People wanting what theyre entitled to but want somebody se to pay for it” That’s exactly what the European banks and Bondholders are demanding!!!!!! So why can’t we?? Let’s debate that one then….

Like your post Irish in the USA. Of course you were right about the red thumbs from the lefties but don’t be discouraged by that. It’s just that they have nothing else to do all day only scratch their backsides with one hand and red thumb common sense with the other!!!

@mcbab that makes absolutely no sense as it has been the public sector workers who have been most protected by their unions and thus most if their jobs are intact and traditionally these same workers are the ‘left wing’ and union supporters!! Hhmmm

@Irish-in-USA and @mcbab: have you any idea what would happen if the US government tried to introduce a tax like this one? (and don’t say they already have property charges, when your total income tax paid is just 20-30% of your income you can afford a property tax)