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Dublin: 11 °C Thursday 20 June, 2013

Disposable income in poor households falls 18 per cent

Meanwhile, the income of the richest households rose by 4 per cent, according to new data from Social Justice Ireland.

Image: Photocall Ireland!

THE INCOME OF Ireland’s poorest households fell by more than 18 per cent in one year – while the income of the richest households rose by 4 per cent, Social Justice Ireland said today.

Its publication, Poverty and Income Distribution, looks at how Ireland’s income distribution has changed over the past 30 years.

Income

Disposable income is the income one has after taxes paid and social welfare received and SJI said that the top 10 per cent of the population receives almost 14 times more disposable income than the poorest 10 per cent receive (28.5 per cent compared to 2.06 per cent).

In 1980, this figure was eight times more.

Dr Seán Healy, Director of Social Justice Ireland said:

The income of Ireland’s poorest households fell by more than 18 per cent in a single year while the income of the richest rose by more than 4 per cent.  There is something profoundly wrong with government decisions that produce this lop-sided distribution of income favouring the richest when Ireland’s poor and middle-income people struggle to make ends meet in these extremely difficult times.

Poverty

The Policy Briefing goes on to point out that economic growth is sluggish at best with projections for the coming years consistently being revised downwards.

It adds that unemployment is rising, while employment fell in the first quarter of 2012.

Even though the poverty line fell by over 10 per cent from €12,064 to €10,831 the numbers in poverty increased, while over 700,000 people are at risk of poverty.

Over 200,000 children in Ireland are living in poverty, a figure which is up by 35,000 in three years. Meanwhile, the document states that almost 120,000 people with a job in Ireland are at risk of poverty – these are described as “the working poor”.

Action required

Social Justice Ireland sets out a number of measures that it believes the Government and policy-makers should implement.

These include:

  • Acknowledge that Ireland has an on-going poverty problem.
  • Assess the impact on society’s most vulnerable people of any proposed policy initiatives aimed at achieving the fiscal adjustments required by the EU/IMF bailout and the Government’s multi-year budgetary plan.
  • Change the ratio of expenditure cuts to tax increases in forthcoming budgets. Tax increases should account for two thirds of the required fiscal adjustment.
  • Examine and support viable, alternative policy options aimed at giving priority to protecting vulnerable sectors of society.
  • Provide substantial new measures to address long-term unemployment. This should include programmes aimed at re-training and re-skilling those at highest risk.

The document says that the problem of the ’working poor’ needs to be recognised, and that tax credits should be made refundable.

It says that the problems of poverty among migrants should also be acknowledged, and policies should be adopted to assist this group. “In addressing this issue also reform and increase the ‘direct provision’ allowances paid to asylum seekers,” said Social Justice Ireland.

Read: Consumers relying on credit cards to pay household bills – survey>

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Comments (83 Comments)

  • and they are not finished with us yet, I wonder what promises were made to the big men from brussells?

    Reply
  • The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Communism has its problems and so does capitalism.

    Reply
    • Yet another stunning fail for Fine Gael.

      Reply
    • Not really. Fine Gaels mission to make their buddies as wealthy as possible is going swimmingly. Its Labour I blame. They can end this today if they want.

      Reply
    • limofax 16/07/12 #

      So true. But you get my drift.

      Reply
    • limofax 16/07/12 #

      So true. But you get my drift.

      Reply
    • Do indeed limo

      Reply
    • Rob 16/07/12 #

      Irishowned,

      Fine Gael would raid the poor and middle class to transfer wealth to the 10%. The rich should pay more in income taxes because they have a greater interest in society. How progressive one should make that is always open to question. Personally, I would like to see a third band of income tax on anyone above 90K. You get a generous standard deviation and then the balance is taxed at a low rate. I won’t go into cap gains treatment or dividend treatment or tax relief on business cars. If we retain the ultra-low corporate income tax, then dividends should be taxed as regular income. Cap gains tend to be inflation or a zero sum game. But to answer your question as to the “communism” part, folks doing game theory have more or less come up with a better country.

      Reply
    • Household disposable income falling??

      That wouldn’t have anything to do with families paying off false, ponzi, national and personal debts to financial terrorists and their criminal banks, with the encouragement of their own bought out government??
      Would it??

      God bless the brave people of Iceland??

      Fighting Irish??

      History does not repeat itself, however this rhymes.

      When was the last time the Irish government stood by and allowed their people to be abused by a large wealthy, international organisation??

      Reply
  • Don’t forget the rich have to be protected otherwise they will leave Ireland. What would Ireland do without having Bono & U2 paying their fair share of tax and spending in the local economy … Oh wait the rich horde money and don’t spend it so we must protect their savings and the money they will never spend, while the rest of us must lose our savings, houses and borrow to feed our families so Fine Gael & Ends Kenny can keep their high wage and expense accounts and look good to the EU.

    Reply
    • Fagan's 16/07/12 #

      Agreed. Where do they think we are, Germany, Austria, Denmark, Holland, Sweden or Norway or Finland, with their excellent services, low debt, low unemployment, innovative economies and their high taxes on those that can afford it.

      We’ll be better off listening to the likes of Enda. The likes of Bertie Ahern’s shoeshine boy McDowell, as they have such wonderful track records. Indeed, we are the talk of the economic world by all accounts.

      Reply
  • Fagan's 16/07/12 #

    The bottom half spend most of their income, keep money circulating and business open. The wealthy do not. Tax cuts to the bottom are actually more stimulative to an economy, where as the rich just save it or spend it on high value ticket items. Inequality is growing at such a rate, and being fostered by the State, by Europe etc, that political violence will be on the cards in the future.

    Reply
    • Hopefully not political violence but yes, tax cuts should be focused on the poorer. It’s harder to tax the very rich, though, because if you tax them too much they will just leave and then we’ll have no tax intake from them at all. A higher tax band for incomes over €90K-100K would probably work best.

      Reply
    • Rob 16/07/12 #

      Giovanni,

      No they won’t leave. They need Ireland because it offers an English speaking, high skilled workforce (unlike most other countries in Europe). I think the rich like to use this as a mis-conception to draw attention away from them in the budget.

      Reply
    • Folks, many companies have already left. I had 3 permanent jobs from 2002 to 2010. All 3 companies are now gone, and with them about 500 jobs – which to be honest, probably removed about 50% of all entry level roles in that region, leaving nothing for those leaving school and college now. What killed it was not so much taxation or the current situation but property costs. They were crippled by very high rents and it worked out cheaper to buy their way out of leases than to keep limping along. The problem with the current system is that it only encourages very profitable companies to come here, not up-and-coming start ups that are currently making a loss or breaking even, who get nothing out of the current skewed corporation tax system. They are also crippled with high rates and thoroughly gouged by local services who “see them coming.” Look for a quotation for simple things like catering for a large meeting or a meeting room and they try to charge you well above the going rate if they think the company has a pile of cash. Interestingly, 2 of the 3 companies paid very low salaries that were not a lot higher than offshore salaries in the more trendy locations like KL or South America.

      Reply
  • Rob 16/07/12 #

    Ireland has a top 10%. In most countries, it’s a top 1%. So why does Ireland have so many wealthy rich?

    We gotta get Fine Gael and Labor voted out of office. All true Conservatives hate to tax the rich. Only a older wealthy white man with hardliner Christian beliefs need apply.

    Reply
    • Wonder what wealthy rich are? Every country has a top 10%. If you are saying that the normal 1% is spread over 10% that is a good thing. That would mean a distribution. nAs for your weird statement about religion and colour, you are aware this is Ireland not the US. nAs for the figures they don’t say much. If labour is cheaper income for poorer people drops. Higher incomes don’t often drop as much but as things are cheaper their disposable income increases. This is economics not some elaborate tax plan by government looking out for friends. Obviously it is easier to react than thinkn

      Reply
    • Fagan's 16/07/12 #

      Ireland is one of the most unequal economic societies in the western world.It is not a coincidence that we are worse in this regard that the countries in Europe that are on a reasonably strong economic footing.

      Reply
    • Rob 16/07/12 #

      Laura Farrell,

      You previously admitted to living in a wealthy suburb. Calling someone a “scrounging neighbor” is a very dangerous thing to say. I’ve seen people punched in the face for saying that (yes, women too).

      Reply
    • Laura, you must be a genetic Blueshirt. Only someone who is inbred with those genes would not have a free will that is capable of separating such obvious qualities of good from bad and capable from incompetent. Never has the chasm in a taxation issue been so vast in our lifetime. When you run out of places to hide, make sure it just isn’t your inbred instinct and you have really looked over the landscape to sort out the future of your Republic. If you do not, genetic Blueshirts such as yourself may someday soon find themselves living under a rock. I grant you that overcoming cognitive dissonance is a tough one. However, the rich will be taxed heavily in future.

      Reply
    • The local and European elections are coming up in 2014 we need to vote wisely in these. We need to use these to reclaim our country.

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    • Rob, you make astonishing assumptions about me, none if which are true. 140k would be my cumulative earnings for half of the last ten years. I don’t live in an affluent area, indeed, never have. Where I’ve lived for last 2 year’s would be slightly better than average. 5 of the previous 8 years were spent living in extremely. Impoverished areas. I know what its like to live in a building that can justifiably be called a tenement: have you, Rob? I also know what it’s like to live in a home with no heating or hot running water: have you, Rob? And I know what it is like to be the only working tenant in one if those paces and STILL be worse if than my neighbours. I’ll bet you know all about that Rob, from your psychic abilities that would earn you a slot on late night tv3.

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    • Very few wealthy people are wealthy without taking advantage of some other group. We have seen from the examples of the politicians and the financiers how there is a huge pool of talent for dodgy dealing. Ireland has produced the world’s finest in that category, hence the 10% where lesser countries can only manage a miserable 1%.
      Scunners, the lot of ‘em, but they are in the driving seat, so tough!

      Reply
    • Rob, your psychic abilities wouldn’t qualify you for a role on TV3 late at night. My combined income for 5 of the last 10 years wouldn’t even add up to 140k, never mind even think of earning such a salary (if I actually had a permanent job – which I don’t). I don’t live in an “affluent area” as you so beautifully describe it, and never have. As for what I was brought up to, it was a below average family income and a mother who managed to make do on very little. My parents drove the same car for 20 years, until the engine fell out. 5 years ago, PTSB were trying to reposess their home because they were in arrears and they had to borrow from family to keep a roof over their heads. They are very much the poor relations in an area which I don’t think quite qualifies as “affluent.” Comfortable, maybe, but not affluent. I do not live in Malahide, Howth or Clontarf, never mind the sunny south side. Being unable to call my family because eircom cut them off again is not a surprise in my family.
      And Rob, I’ve actually lived for 5 of the last 10 years in one of the most poor regions in the country. I know what its like to live in a building that could be rightfully described as a tenement: have you? I know what its like to have no hot running water and no heating at all: do you know what thats like Rob? And Rob, I also know what its like to be the only working tenant in the building, and STILL worse off that everybody else: I’ll bet thats something you can tell me all about. If it wasn’t for my generous friend who was getting rent allowance and the dole while also earning 800 euros per month as nixer on the black economy, I would never have had a proper dinner. And an evening newspaper, courtesy of the barwoman around the corner, who was also on the dole while working as a bar woman on the black economy and driving a 1 year old car. Those people were so kind to a poor deluded soul who thought that earning your own money was the way to success!!

      Its a shame to have to air my families dirty laundry, but its extraordinary how easily some of you make wild assumptions about posters on here. Just because you dispute CORI/SJI’s totally distorted picture of inequality doesn’t mean you went to a private school and live in D4. Far from it. The people who the extra money will be taken from to fatten up the lowest income groups will be those on the median, which I might remind you is around 29k per year last time I was able to find it.

      I find it a good laugh that you consider Swords a “wealthy suburb” by the way.

      Reply
  • give the poor more money by taxing the working classes, dumb suggestion!

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  • Revolution now!

    Reply
  • When you voted for a right-wing government I don’t know how you can be surprised at this.

    Reply
    • Oh come on Sean. You know as well as I do that most voters don’t know their right-wing from their left-wing, and they sure as hell don’t understand how they are being manipulated and misinformed by they media and politicians collectively. The real problem is that most people are stupid, and their ignorance is used against them by more educated people to control and exploit them. Most people seem happy to live in poverty or to work in a dead end job for a basic existence. They certainly don’t seem too bothered by the situation to get off their backsides and actually do anything about it. Nearly half of them can’t even be bothered to make the effort to vote once every 3 or 4 years. They get what they deserve.

      Reply
    • That’s a good point.

      Reply
    • Peter 16/07/12 #

      This government is pretty left wing with its bank guaranties, interventionism , massive number of state employees, unemployment subsidies, farming grants , and spiralling dept crisis..

      Reply
    • Fagan's 16/07/12 #

      When you vote for criminal incompetents like FG and FF for 80 years, even though they have the worst economic record of any parties in Europe. (Esp. FF in this regards, several global ercords in economic collapse over last few decades). What can people expect? Until the electorate are unhappy with their parents dying in corridors in hospitals and their children having to emigrate, while their leaders retire on pensions that are double what many active national leaders get, it will not change. This is more profound than left and right.

      Reply
    • Fagan's 16/07/12 #

      Very sad but true Hugh.

      I always felt that if Gandhi went in to politics here that he would be so put off by the moping electorate, the béal bocht and self pity shure dere all the same attitude that he would after a few years go, fuc8 ‘em and just go along to get along. The electorate are the source of all the problems here, the politicians if held accountable would do the right thing.

      Reply
    • @hugh the irony of that statement is your confusion with the meanings of the words ‘ignorant’ and ‘stupid’ and how interchangeable they may or may not be

      Reply
  • THEY TOLD US GET RID OF FINNA FAIL AND THING WOULD BE MORE TRANSPARENT,,ENDA TOLD US WE WOULD HAVE HONEST GOVERNMENT,,RABITTE TOLD US NO MORE TOM FOOLERY POLITICS,, WHAT DID THEY GIVE US,,, ENDA KENNY MAKES BIFFO COWEN LOOK LIKE JFK,, JAMES REILLY MAKES MARY HARNEY LOOK LIKE FLORENCE NIGHTENGALE,, PAT RABBITE MAKES CONOR LENIHAN LOOK LIKE GHANDI,, PHIL HOGAN MAKES BERTIE LOOK HONEST,, COMBINED FINE GAEL AND LABOUR MAKE FANNA FAIL AND THE GREENS LOOK LIKE BOY SCOUTS,,THEY HAVE DONE MORE U TURNS IN ONE YEAR THAN SCHUMACKER DID IN HIS LIFE TIME IN FORMULA 1,,,FFS HOW MUCH MORE CAN WE TAKE

    Reply
  • That is why I will be voting Sinn Fein in the next election. I realized Fine Gael lied and bowed to Europe. Fooled me once but not twice.

    Reply
    • If SF gets into government here, then Ireland will be truly screwed – unless of course you think that a return to the bombs and 25% unemployment of the 1980s is desirable…

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    • Rob 16/07/12 #

      “If SF gets into government here, then Ireland will be truly screwed” !

      lol. What is your scientific basis for that? How do you define “unemployment”? You realize Fine Gael are worse? Tell you what Mr. Giusti, why don’t you move if you’re that concerned? You know where the Airport is…

      Reply
    • Rob – that’s the attitude I was talking about… if people like you gain the upper hand I will be leaving indeed and take my meagre tax contribution elsewhere

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    • As for a scientific basis:

      A nationalist government can only try to counter the forces of the international markets by insulating the country from them, for example by defaulting on the national debt and exiting the Euro.

      Big multinationals will leave – not so much because of higher tax rates but because of the political climate.

      Cue in unemployment and bread lines. The government will have to print more money to pay all the social welfare bills. Hyperinflation will ensue.

      I call that “screwed” but of course some people will profit from it. Maybe people like “Rob” can find employment in the newly formed “political police force”.

      Last time in history someone mixed nationalism and socialism, the result was national socialism. Not a lot of good came from that.

      Reply
    • Fagan's 16/07/12 #

      Wasn’t that Fine Gael, that gave us the 25% unemployment when Garret the shure till do quadrupled our debt. FG have a better economic record than FF but they are still far from responsible or capable economic managers. Just a classier style of fraud than FF brown envelopes.

      Reply
    • and what makes you think that Sinn Féin aren’t lying?

      Reply
    • “If SF gets into government here, then Ireland will be truly screwed ”

      You mean we haven’t been already?? Verily, thou doth jest.
      The shinners seem to me to have a better record of integrity, notwithstanding the printer cartridges, than all the other parties. (Mine’s a HP2540dtn, by the way).

      Reply
    • I think a full “clean out” of Irish politics is required, not sure if that could be achieved without heads literally rolling. But in any case, Ireland doesn’t have the appetite and the banks have swallowed a bucket load of Irish cash already. I think that particular window of opportunity has passed. The likelihood of getting an honest government into power is stupidly low, and even if that miracle happened they’d be fighting a loosing battle.

      Reply
    • Rob 17/07/12 #

      Giovanni Giusti,

      Tell you what mate, I’ll personally buy your plane ticket. You won’t be missed by people in this country. Anyone else want to help out buying Giovanni’s ticket?

      Reply
  • Money is too important to be left to the rich. The wealth is unfairly distributed in Ireland. The rich try and hide their money from tax officials – a form of tax evasion. They propose a property tax because it’s a flat tax to them which enables them to hoard their money in tax havens. Even worse, they expect government subsidies to keep their bloated perks (including low corporate tax rates). Why should the ordinary Irish person be forced to fill the tax gap for the rich?? The problem is that taxes on the wealthy aren’t enough. We need to introduce a wealth tax like in France.

    Reply
  • selective sterilization? oops did i say that out loud? ;p

    Reply
  • Utterly shameful. Plenty of outrage here, but so little at the ballot box. We have been voting for right-wing parties of the bosses and big farmers since independence, and we are not about to change our spots just yet, because ours is an innately fearful, conservative culture. We defer to the commercial class in precisely the same way as we until recently deferred to clerics (and how ironic/telling that this report championed by a priest).

    No doubt we will now have a procession of bank, stockbroker and hedge fund economists on RTE, and of course Pat Kenny, to tell us that what really matters is supporting ‘enterprise’, and by attracting investors to Ireland, which means that by making the rich richer we might have some chance of a minimum wage contract, with no job security, sick pay or pension.
    When we question that they will change the subject and tell us that everything is the fault of public sector lepers. And we will buy it. Again. Gobble gobble.

    Reply
  • Agree 100% with Hugh above. Give it another few years of austerity budgets and they’ll most likely put a resurgent Fianna Fail in again, on the back of questionable promises and soundbite politics. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose – the thing to try and remember is that almost every Irish government since 1922 has been to one degree or other incompetent, reckless or both. If we want to be honestly objective, in comparison to what’s gone before the current coalition would be somewhat above the mean. FG and Labour do manage to balance each other out by keeping the worst of their respective right and left wing tendencies in check.

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    • I cannot understand why people won’t switch to Sinn Fein instead of Fianna Fail. FF failed, FG failed, LAB failed…..

      Reply
    • Fagan's 16/07/12 #

      If FF are voted back in to power, then when the inevitable collapse and their mass corruption destroys the country for the 4th time, then the whole thing should be left go back to the animals.

      Are people really that bad here? I don’t even want to contemplate it.

      Reply
    • The Irish Labour Party has a left-wing! Apart from that your observation, that FG/Lab policies will make a FF will return likely, is spot on.

      Reply
    • censored 17/07/12 #

      I agree with Fagan’s. If Ireland votes the Failures back in then only remedy is nuke from orbit.

      Reply
    • I think the reason people won’t switch to SF (aside from the obvious) is that they’re not offering anything new. 1970s socialism mixed with a number of uncosted and untested leaps into the unknown doesn’t fire my imagination. It’s fair to say that things would need to get a lot more desperate than they currently are for sufficient numbers to want to give SF a whirl on their own.

      Reply
    • the lost lenore,

      The country is already desperate. It will become more desperate after the next two budgets. When FG’s term runs out, they will meet their election defeat. Property taxes and water charges will affect the placid middle class. It is them who will are slow to open their minds to change.

      Reply
  • Former Pfiser’s VP explains how and why poverty is likely to continue to increase.
    http://www.peakprosperity.com/crashcourse

    Reply
  • “We need to introduce a wealth tax like in France.”

    A great many of those who would be subject to such a wealth tax in France are already leaving for other countries. Someone paying 45% in London is paying 0% in France.

    The rich are more able and willing to move to more favourable tax regimes.

    Reply
    • They are running out of places to hide. Europe is becoming smarter than they are. More countries are signing tax agreements. I think you are wildly exaggerrating – why would the rich leave Ireland when we have a high skilled, english speaking workforce free of bureaucracy?

      Reply
    • “why would the rich leave”

      Why should they stay? They can have businesses in Ireland and be personally liable for tax elsewhere.

      What about people who have accumulated their wealth through careful living, hard work and diligence? Should they be penalised for their success?

      Reply
    • Damocles said: “What about people who have accumulated their wealth through careful living, hard work and diligence? Should they be penalised for their success?”

      Stupid question. By the way, whether or not anyone “deserves” his/her wealth has nothing to do with whether or not income tax rates should be more progressive. I’m perfectly happy to agree that, apart from proof of illegal activity, each rich person pays little or no capital gains tax nor on dividends. However, I still believe in progressive tax rates. A rich person can afford to part with more, as a percent of his/her income, to support things (like Hospitals, Gardai, etc.) that society needs. So the question of whether rich people should pay taxes at higher rates is a question of how fast the economy improves, it is not a question of whether someone “deserves” what s/he earns.

      Reply
    • limofax 16/07/12 #

      If I was rich, I would consider it an honour and my duty, to pay a high tax rate.

      Reply
    • Limofax, why aren’t you rich? Were you here during the tiger years? Did you not have the opportunity to accumulate wealth and put it away for the lean years? What went wrong?

      Reply
    • Fagan's 16/07/12 #

      So the argument goes, yet all the high tax countries in Europe are bailing out the low tax business friendly ones. The English and Americans are printing money out of thin air to keep the show on the road. The deregulation and free for all market so beloved of the low taxes for the richest wing, have destroyed the banking sector and hundreds of thousands of jobs here and the banking sector for most of the western world.

      Wouldn’t we kill to have the economic model of most of Northern Europe, its great service, its reasonable debt, low unemployment, safer societies. We’d kill, but we won’t vote for it better to stick with FG/FF and go for going bankrupt 5 times in a century.

      Reply
    • limofax 16/07/12 #

      Damocles. Nothing has gone wrong. I think you just have very different values. The only thing I need to accumulate are happy memories and good times. However IF I was rich, I would be proud to pay a lot more tax to
      contribute to the running of the country. At a time when more and more of our people are falling into a poverty trap and our public services are at breaking point, I think our priority should be the welfare of the vast majority of our people and not an elite few wealthy people, who use their extra wealth to buy influence in government circles and dictate better conditions for themselves while encouraging

      Reply
    • limofax 16/07/12 #

      While encouraging the running down and dismantling of our public services and social safety nets through their media mouthpieces. Maybe you find it unusual, but I would actually get find greater satisfaction in seeing everybody do well, than any great personal wealth.

      Reply
    • If you had gathered wealth then you could be helping the worse off through good works enabled through that wealth and we wouldn’t have people demanding that the wealthy pay for the upkeep of others.

      I’m of the personal opinion that too many of those falling by the wayside have forgotten the unwritten law of a supportive society and are lashing out at others.

      If there are those at the wealthier end of society who have also forgotten it then there are better ways of remedying the situation than taxing them until they bleed. That method can only ultimately make things worse for everyone.

      Reply
    • Then let them go. They can hardly do much more damage to us as a Society than they have already. How long are we supposed to be grateful to them for the crumbs they toss down to us whenever they feel like it? The majority of them, one way or another have gotten rich on our backs. How long are we supposed to doff our forelocks to them?
      These people seem to foget that this country is a Republic. We do not nor are we supposed to have an Aristocracy, yet some see themselves as such!

      Reply
    • Damocles 16/07/12 #

      “How long are we supposed to doff our forelocks to them?”

      Never, I’m pretty sure you could only do so once anyway. And you’d need scissors.

      My comment was about a forgetting of the unwritten law from BOTH ends of society. The only sensible solution is for both ends to be reminded or the middle will suffer.

      Reply
  • of course Dr Seán Healy is also Fr. Seán Healy a member of one of the richest organsiations in the world the Catholic Church Limited. Maybe he could askh his boss to “spirit” some of the money back to Ireland that was sent to the vatical by gullible poor fools.

    The catholic church preaching about wealth….now that’s a joke.

    And as for the commies above the wealthy pay most of the tax in Ireland….those at the bottom actually contribute…er….nothing in income tax i believe.

    Reply
  • Ireland’s a kip!

    Reply
  • Nobody seems to notice we are dealing with a global financial extractive system(identified at least since Marx)and its local/national manifestation, to which the rich, in their post-national heaven(a la Bono.Inc.)can give the fiscal finger of creative accounting.
    Given the carcinogenic fractal growth of tax-havens( http://www.treasureislands.org ), we aint got no chance until we address the problem globally; we just keep on shuffling the symptomatic deck-chairs as they steam merrily up the north face of the iceberg. The iceberg in the blind-eye being the finite resource base we are collectively trying to extract infinite growth from, with its resultant pending ecological collapse. The long-brewed war-economics are kicking back into attack mode now the soviet challenge is dispensed with, back to resumption of the imperial Great Game for sunset-free WASP empire. The financial donkeys are hypnotised by their own gilded carrot-addiction. Nowt new.
    Wake up and smell the dead canaries.

    Reply
  • I will be voting Sinn Fein in the next election. End of story!

    Reply
  • Damocles 16/07/12 #

    The maximum tax on income including PRSI and USC exceeds 50%.

    Isn’t that enough?

    How much higher would you raise it?

    Reply
  • Tom you are now becoming an little too obvious and the gang this morning are getting no opposition so you can take a break. However if you move to the Isle of Mann a mere hop on a ferry you will pay just twenty per cent income tax regardless how much you earn. Or alternatively a quick trip to any of the Channel Islands or Jersey and it becomes even more favourable with much better weather than we have and nobody with your attitude anywhere to be found.

    Reply
  • Lower tax rates for the wealthy might encourage the wealthy from other European countries (such as France or the UK) to choose to be domiciled in Ireland.

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    • You are correct and that has been driving pushes to reduce taxation in the UK, which is now warehousing the hyper wealthy from all over the world. Visa restrictions make it harder to do the same here.

      In fact the number of very wealthy, ie earn over 140k pa, is very small here. Most ‘better off’ earners are in the 60-100k income brackets.

      Reply
    • Rob 16/07/12 #

      Laura….seriously! Have you done the math on raising the tax rates on the wealthy and determined to what extent that would reduce our deficit? Furthermore, have you forgotten that the visa system is made up of more than just the House of tax breaks? Your precious 149K is considered a wealthy salary by international norms (but not in your bubble world).

      Income tax in Ireland remains exceptionally low compared to the Euro-zone average. Your comments simply run hollow and highlight the ignorance of you and your piers.

      Reply
    • Rob 16/07/12 #

      Laura….seriously! Have you done the math on raising the tax rates on the wealthy and determined to what extent that would reduce our deficit? Furthermore, have you forgotten that the visa system is made up of more than just the House of tax breaks? Your precious 140K is considered a wealthy salary by international norms (but not in your bubble world).

      Income tax in Ireland remains exceptionally low compared to the Euro-zone average. Your comments simply run hollow and highlight the ignorance of you and your piers.

      Reply
    • Ladies and Gentlemen, please. We do not have a large enough resident pool of very high net worth individuals to make sufficient difference. What you are really talking about is taxing the 70-150k bracket out of existance. This income bracket (of which I’m no where near a part of) would already appear to pay their fair share of running the state. With the various levies, 41% tax, USC and so forth, this demographic is already handing over around 60%+ of their income. I think we need to be very careful here – certain areas such as the higher echelons of technology, science and medicine pay a premium to attract highly skilled candidates. It’s not all bankers and talk show hosts, you know. Clobber them with tax and they’ll vote with their feet – much as what happened in the 80s. It kills innovation.

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