Some day?? I’ve been wondering that for some time now, and I’d just presumed the equality was there before that.

The fuss is that marriage is an institute to raise families, not some random association between just any random people. This is just liberal absolutism baed on the modern unthinking moron mantra of “equality”. We may as well campaign for single people to have the same tax rights as married people or for polygamy. Denying them the same rights as married folk is discrimination also after all in we liberals were to be consistent.

I dont expect to get sympathy from the liberal arts degree types who visit this site but hey, the truth is the truth.

I hope Diarmuid Martin now excommunicates those on DCC who voted for this marxist motion. I’m sure some of them pretend to be nominally catholic.

Didn’t you hear?? the Catholic church have stopped kicking people out now. You’re not allowed leave any more.

How are your rights being infringed?

Sorry – just saw your Fathers’ Rights item on your profile. Different but very important issue.

Oh great news because opposite sex marriage is so yesterday

Well Niamh there probably are some people who are still against it but there are some fools on here who just red thumb anything…. Probably can’t even read but just like pictures of red thumbs!! I think it’s only right gay couples have the same rights. It’s about bloody time!!!

All Fine Gael against

One FG member was openly againsr it. Please don’t libel people who support the motion.

Libel? Whatever. Fine Gael were the four votes against.

you’re saying we’re one tracked minded…

You’re very hypocritical, I know a great deal of people who would not agree with you, as I am sure you know others who are for gay rights… btw this isnt about gay rights, cause unless you can as a couple procreate which is given to a Man and a Woman, who jointly have the power given by God to create children You do not have the right to be parents. Before you try and shoot me down, I know many couples (man and wife) who are unable to have children for a variety of health reasons, they are the ones who have the right (as long as they are vetted) to adopt children, not a man and a man…

You would not have been born if it wasnt for a man and a woman, thats where you dont get it, and forget IVF and other forms of articfial insemination, again, when a man and a woman marry they should be the ones entitled to raise a family.

Yes there are single parents out there, I was raised by one, my mother, I never had a father there to teach me things or be there for me. You cannot replace the God given institution of marriage between a man and a woman. There is no way. Simple, black and white.. (oh wait are you going to call me racist for saying black and white?)

@ smiley sorry if you took me up wrong fathers have a wonderful role to play in a child’s life I am a married man and I know that if anything should happen to my wife(god forbid) I would love those kids as much as possible but I could never replace their mother is that so hard to understand

Is he still a councillor..i thought he was gone.

Hehe, well done to Sinn Fein and Labour. I am now going to copy and paste this link and tweet youth defence, just cos it’ll be fun. Sure why don’t you join in for the craic? ;)

Parshnakler. That’s the thing, there’ll be no craic!

Disgraceful behaviour by the SDLP for abstaining in the Fermanagh vote. Bunch of cowards. They could have passing the motion if they had any backbone.

@David here you go again with your scientific rhetoric I told you before no need for it, I have absolutely nothing against gays but when it comes to adoption this is a no go area for gays if the child’s biological parents can’t look after him then firstly his relatives should be vetted and if not suitable then he should be placed with a suitable family I.e man and woman and preferably with other kids simple no bs there David

But why should suitable gay parents be barred from adopting when the supply of suitable parents looking to adopt is outnumbered the number of children who need to be adopted especially considering adoption statistic have shown that gay couples are far more willing to adopt older children and children with disabilities who normally would have little or no chance of adoption, surely its better for them to grow up with two loving parents then in an underfunded orphanage in the developing world? Does your bigotry run so deep, that you would deny some of the neediest children on Earth a good home?
And learn to use the reply button.

well said !!!!…….and martin ? let me tell you something. i grew up in a country where there is same sex marriage for a long time, and yes “they” can adopt…..i am happy with that, i know many who have adopt and they are the greatest parents ever.
their kids grow up with an open mind , their kids learn that there is more in the world than what we call “normal”.
is it really better to have a father and mother ? look around, listen , read !!! i’m not saying that things can’t go wrong in a gay marriage and raising their children .
we have to teach our children that’s ok to be gay, that’s ok to be different ! so………..that it is also ok if they have a friend who they want to play with and this friend has two mothers or two fathers so what ! learn them its a big world with allkinds of ppl and that that’s normal. even if you don’t agree, don’t poison their mind with your opinion.

I think you might find a Constitutional Referendum could reject this proposition with the low turnout that is traditional among the under twenty fives and the opposite for the grey vote!

Don’t get your hopes up, Mick.

What if the referendum is *not* rejected, Mick? How long do you think it will take for the sky to fall down?

Mick, we’ve been fighting for this for years, if it comes to a referendum, we’ll be out there mobilizing as many of our supporters as possible and winning new ones, this is our chance to have our right to enter into committed, long-term relationships and form families recognised and protected by the state, we will not let that chance pass us by because of apathy.

@david so this is about forming families too? I dunno

Giving full marriage rights to gay couples also would allow them to adopt a child as a couple, a far more secure position legally in the event of bereavement or other unforeseen events then the current situation where the child is a legal stranger to one of their parents, so yes Aiden, this is about forming stable families as well.

Liam if you changed the pic you might be taken a little more seriously. If you put that up I’m most office environment today you’d be fired without any doubt and a Tribunal would endorse the decision.

But Mick, Assy McGee will sort any legal problems I have; apart from the fact, that you shouldn’t be on twitter in work….

There are quite a few psychologists and neurologists who’d disagree with you about being able to explain the bond between a mother and child.
Your little story there is more of an argument to deal with the massive homophobia in our schools, which I should had has already cost just far too many lives to suicide and left many young LGBT people with terrible mental scars, then it is continue preventing marriage equality.
How dare you say that we don’t think of the needs of children in this debate, we are well aware of the need to protect children from bullying and from suicide because in the six years on average between our realisation that we’re gay and the time we come out, when we have to hide who we are from the world, very day, from everyone, we have some dark, dark thoughts, we start to think maybe its better to end it all and far too meny do.
We are not fighting for are own selfish motives, we’re doing this to win the dignity we deserve so that the next generation of LGBT kids don’t have to go though the same s**t we did.

@Martin Ryan if a child gets bullied beyond belief because of his/her parents them I’d really question what kind of parents could raise a child who hates and bullies other children. This argument undermines your point that hetero couples are better parents if you really believe this will happen . Thankfully I believe people are better than that.

@David Ryan if you believe the mother/child bond is so important what could be better than two mothers?

And it took long enough for the common sense to kick in here in Ireland!

@David Jordan. so you finally got it the Mother/child bond is different well done !
the LGBT community do deserve dignity and respect and I have friends across that whole spectrum but David it’s never going to be the same as the man /woman marriage institution
even if it’s passed through every parliament on earth but it is most certainly wrong for same sex couples to adopt young innocent children in my opinion

The old “I’m not (insert type of predice), some of my best friends are (insert name of group about to be slandered) but…” line, somehow I doubt you believe that we deserve respect considering your first post on this tread is a cross-dressing joke.
You actually haven’t given any reason why gay couples shouldn’t be allowed to adopt besides the often sited but never explained children are better off with a mother and father excuse (which has no scientific bases) and the line that our children will get bullied at school (which is really just homophobia on the bases of homophobia).
And if you repeat the words its wrong, its wrong, its different, its different over and over again doesn’t make it so, you have to make good, logical points as to why its so.

@ Susanna nothing wrong with two so long as it’s the Mother and grandmother

So sorry, I accidentally thumbsed-up Martin’s inane comment about grandmothers. I can only hope the other two were accidents as well.

How democratic!

Yes it is quite democratic that our elected representatives would make a change in the law in accordance with the wishes of the majority of the people without the expense of a referendum, especially considering that at no point does the constitution state that a marriage is a union of a man and a woman.

@ David Jordan because a mother has a different bond with the child,the child is born from the mother of course fathers have a special place too,buts it’s not the same, I am a father to six children I see everyday the difference it’s even different in the animal kingdom you need to go out and observe this for yourself

So the differance is there’s a differance, so in other words, you can’t actually explain what the differance actually is.
There has never been a conclusive study done that has determined wheather a child is better off being raised by a man and a woman or two people of the same sex resulting in current scientific opinion being that the character, skill and dedication of the parents is more important then their gender.
And finally, anyone, who knows anything about zoology would say the animal kingdom is the last place to get one’s morals from, see sparrow, bee, orangutan or duck mating and reproduction for examples why.

Firstly david how do you know it’s what the majority want? Secondly if our elected representatives decide on a decision you don’t like will it be accepted by you?

PS I have no problem with same sex marriage at all, live and let live is what I believe.

Every recently conducted poll shows that the Irish want marriage equality, and no if our government fails to recognise and protect our and our families civil rights, I will still fight to obtain those rights, as is my prerogative in a democracy, though frankly, I don’t think peoples’ civil rights should be granted or taken away by popular vote in a liberal democracy that really looks after its minorities minorities.

So you’ll accet and think everyone should be happy to accet a “democratic decision” if it suits your cause. I’ve never seen any of the “majority of recent polls” so I’ll take your word for it

Do you think the anti-marriage equality lobby would accept a democratic vote that went against them?
The fact that some rights are inherant and inalienable is what separates a democracy from mob rule, would you let your right to have your love and your family recongised by the state be taken away by a mob?
But sure the gays have civil partnership, so why do they need marriage?
But sure Rosa Parks was on the bus anyway, so why did she need to sit up the front?

@David. there is no need for scientific basis as to why a child is better with mum and dad it’s called procreation. two men can’t conceive a child (yet) it’s as simple as that look up human biology and reproduction nothing there about two males with a baby. Daddy has sex with mammy and hey Presto she gets pregnant and this is where the Mother/baby bonding begins which is why women are DIFFERENT with kids no need for science their either baby belongs with mammy and daddy and anything different is contrary to human nature

Procreation is a seperate issue, we’re talking about raising children and unfortunitly not all children can be raised by their biological parents so we’re talking about who should be allowed adopt those children, so in that case its best to have done some research into the best atmosphere for children to be raised in and no scientifically valid study has shown that a mother and father is best.
If you don’t want gay people to raise children because you have a personal problem with gay people then say so rather then throwing around BS about human nature.

Well Martin what about a straight couple, where one can’t have kids? Is it contrary to human nature for them to get help having kids too?

Precisely my sentiment.

Nothing

It shows support. When the Dail comes to discuss this these votes will have a huge impact.

labour and sinn fein?!

Should the councils not be doing something better with their time? Have they not seen the state of our roads?

This took a few minutes of discussion and a vote, our roads are not going to crumble in the meantime, frankly, if people are against marriage equality they should just come out and say it rather then mumble about wasting council time.

I’ve already been to one.

Spot on. And the best thing about having nothing is that you can double it overnight.

Please elaborate on how it’s a publicity stunt?

Well Sean it is in the sense that these motions are largely irrelevant. It would take a vote in the Dail and then a referendum to see naything actually change.

Bet their grass root voters in the north have no idea of their marxist agenda.

Which way does that come from? megolithic or jurassic period?

@les ~ the way of the least evolved troll period.

Exactly Lee.

Grand, I’ll be voting yes – rendering your vote null and void. How do you like them apples?

@David Jordan -no man can take the part of a mother

Maybe you could explain why that is to me Martin, because I’ve heard that argument so often from anti-marriage equality avocates but never once have any of them told me what this quality is that moms have but dads don’t or vice versa.

It amazes me that people can’t tell the obvious differences between a male and a female. However I trust that this debate is not about the physical differences between a man and a woman (if so I can help, scientifically speaking, to point out the differences). That means that we’re dealing with unseen differences, like the soul, morals, standards, etc., none of which we can make sense of without the Bible. The main reason that it has to be male and female in marriage is because the Bible says so. I understand that this view is held by the mere minority in our “modern” society, however I have yet to hear a logical argument explaining the existence of universal, unchanging standards without the God of the Bible.

@ Bob Boyle. The Bible says you can’t wear clothes of mixed fabric. It says a lot of things, it’s not infallible.

@ Eoghan – Under the Law of Moses, God did require man to abstain from certain things; mixed fabric was one of many. But if you read on a little, you’ll find out that thankfully, Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law. Not the ‘most logical’ argument I’ve heard against the infallibility of scripture, but I appreciate the comment!

Oh yes I’m sure buildings will crumble and the world will end because two people in love can marry each other.

You called me a bigot and referred to
Catholicism, I’m not catholic, and I’m not a bigot. I am a person who has a different opinion.

And you say we are so ancient in our ways, sodomy has been around for a very Long time. Who’s preaching to who here, as for people who don’t believe in God same again ye have been around since Cain, go figure.

You slander us for our beliefs, and yet tell us we need to be more “modern”.
I have a life thank you, I also don’t go around slandering you for being gay, I just don’t agree with it. Which is the same as you believing in no God… Which makes me sad that you lack awareness of your own bigotry, go figure.

Ye are all great for proclaiming freedom for gay rights, but not For religious freedom and free speech. Hmm
Not very nice are ye?

OMG !!!! destruction of the country by gay marriage ?….this is the most stupid thing i have evr heard !!!!
so….its not the ppl themself, it’s not the gov…no noway ! we need a new scapegoat so why not blame it all on the gay ppl !!!!
dangerous, very dangerous !! this kind of talk made wars start and ppl killed !

Exactly

Well said!!

What makes you think you own the title “marriage” more than anybody else. As for adoption: gay people can and do already adopt, it’s not solely for married people.

Of all the comments I’ve seen on the journal, this is the most ridiculous ever. I cannot believe anyone would hold such ancient views in modern Ireland. It astounds me. (‘come up with your own name’… totally stupid statement).

Can you explain why you object to the word marriage? Do you think that the idea of two people of the same sex being married is actually offensive? Also, are you opposed to adoption rights for gay people because you don’t like the idea in itself or is it purely because you believe only married people should raise kids and at the moment gays cannot marry?

Well said.

Noone cares what god thinks when it suits themselves. My interpretation is it is all interpreted by man and once i get to heaven, if there is a god i will be forgiven, in the instance he believes it is wrong. Love thy neighbour is a foundation of christianity, yet i fail to find one catholic who will adhere to it. Live your gods morals, and then you may be able to speak for him

You won’t be voting on this anytime soon unless there’s a referendum – of which there is currently no talk whatsoever in government circles. Did you even read the article? What makes you think you will be asked to vote on this? The article is about a council voting yes in favour of marriage equality. Marriage does not automatically equal Family. Marriage equals a Married Couple. This has NOTHING to do with children.

It amuses me when the bigots like you pull the God card.

Let’s examine the whole God issue with respect to homosexuality. Is this the same God who created us all in his likeness? But he’s a man right? Are we sure? How do we know? He created women too… but women are not exactly in the same ‘likeness’ as men right? Also, what sexual persuasion is God? You think he’s straight? Are you sure? Where’s his missus? If he’s a man, how come he sent an angel to impregnate Mary? So wouldn’t that mean Jesus was the son of an the Angel Gabriel and not the son of God? Unless there was a turkey baster involved and poor ole Gabe was just the A.I. man. So…. if mankind (men AND women) were created in God’s likeness, what is God? A bisexual haemaphrodite?

Also, is this the same God with the grand plan for all of us? Was it part of this God’s plan for me to be gay? Was it a part of your God’s plan to make you a bigoted moron? Was it your God’s plan to allow the likes of you and your ilk to subject innocent people who just happen to be attracted to the same gender to centuries of abuse and discrimination and to deprive them of a family? Was it God’s plan to allow you and yours to decide for others how they should live? Was it God’s plan to sow hate and to divide his people in this way, defying his own basic but fundamental law of “Love one another as I have loved you” and the related “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. What if one of your family were gay – would you tell them that they and their partner weren’t entitled to be legally recognised as a couple with the same rights as any other couple? Sorry “normal married couple”. How would you like it your loved ones were deprived of a happy fulfilling life on the basis of their sexuality or some other difference about them? I don’t think you’d find it to your liking to have one of your own discriminated against. So, you see, I’m not sure that your God’s great plan is such a divine plan to be honest … it seems more than a little tainted and questionable.

The answer to questions such as this, from bigoted religious god-botherers such as yourself, is usually that no one knows why God decides what he does as he is a mystery and besides – he gave us all free will! Convenient that.

But, of course he did! He gave us all free will to deviate from his grand, divine plan and laws that you’d claim determine everything but which upon close examination are clearly the batshit crazy musings of a complete lunatic(s). A fallible, flesh and blood lunatic, who lived two thousand or more years ago, squatting in tent or mudhut somewhere in a desert, working on a set of scrolls which would later be turned into a book. It’s not the work of an all loving, all powerful, supreme, divine being who dwells in an invisible paradise in the ether.

You thoughtless and unthinking, religious parrot and shameless homophobe.

God established nothing because God does not exist. Evolution is how we came to be. I believe in equal rights for all, not some fairy tale about a man in the sky.

How do you know what way God established things? Did he come down and give you his master plan?

How do you know being Gay is violating his laws? Who is to say God didn’t create them and has a special use for them?

And a crime of nature? There are numerous cases of homosexuality in nature, so that arguement is invalid

Well if God says so!! Wonder how Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy feel about it?