The Gardai have one of the most modern fleet of vehicles and equipment in western Europe. The media are hyping up the crisis.

Obviously never been in a Garda car then Regonald… Try it some time!

I have to take issue with comment that Gardai have one of the most modern fleet and equipment. Garda vehicles are not built for purpose. They are family saloon cars with blue light/siren add Ons and markings… In the main they are also under powered. There is no additional battery in boot to power the add ons so there is huge drain on battery and (can u believe it) frequent dead battery on cars unless left running while parked …. Despite Gardai on the ground looking to catch up with other forces re equipment we have only in recent years received the ASP baton , stab proof vest and pepper spray. A secure TETRA radio only came on stream over 15years after it was decided the old radio system was a liability. We have no proper purpose built modern CAD dispatch system.

Modern fleet? they are bog standard family cars with lights on the roof that’s it with huge mileages and in poor condition you shouldn’t comment about something you know nothing about

Fool

Rubbish . Have you got a web link to that fact . Or is this ur opinion ?

Gerry Connors Sorry Gerry, if you can elaborate as regards who you are responding to and on what issue, I might b able to help you out.. I’m on ‘phone’ and I can’t find the Thread

Gardai were given new cars recently. It’s part of the improvement of efficiency.

Departmental spin …. When saying Gardai were given 150 vehicles, in the year where they lost over 360…… That is actually a nett loss of 210 in a year abd Gardai are currently down over 400 vehicles nett….
A transit connect van which can only transport 2 gardai is fine for transport prisoners but it doesn’t replace a patrol car for pursuing criminals or have ability to drop extra Gardai to an accident or public order

The choice of vehicle (transit connects apparently) purchased is surely a matter for the Gardai and not the department or government.

Ya Alan Harte, I agree with you… I never said choice of Transit Connects was choice of Govt… What I will say is that it’s a poor decision brought about by the fact that the lifeblood of An Garda Síochána I being sucked dry by underfunding…….. So as an anology I would point out that when an ordinary member of the public, (a mother on the breadline) feeds her kids cheap burgers made from off cuts of ground down meat and bones it’s also not the choice of govt that she buys cheap in-nutritious food ….. The gun is against her head too…. (who cares if the Garda is at risk because the NCAAP safety rating is less than the patrol car, or the prisoner isnt as safe as in the large transit vans or the criminal gets away, as long as the dinky little van gets there so the Garda can get out his notebook and record the crime)… PLEASE LISTEN ….. This is about resources, our fight not to be cut more pay is a different battle ….. We are not talking vested interests when we ask for the tools do do our trade properly and safely. The right to enter the Hurling field of play with a Hurley and not a golf stick.

Minister burton doesn’t have a Garda that “sits outside her house 24/7″ if you’re gonna try make a dig get your facts straight.

Isn’t it?

It is daft that we have as many soldiers as police.

We cannot spend money we don’t have. The media are hyping up exceptional events and people are drawing irrational conclusions. We have enough Gardai on our streets. If people want more Gardai, they must be willing to finance this through higher taxes and more debt. It cannot happen both ways.

LOL.. Watching SF squirm on this, trying to find the remotest shred of credibility on the issue of protecting Gardai or their resources is amusing.

Seamus, would you prefer if Sinn Fein returned to their past ways?

Mike, so the corollary to your point is to have what 5,000 stations? Cops have cars, radios and computers nowadays. I was once in a pub that was robbed, 100 yds from Kevin St police station, the cops didn’t arrive for 20 minutes!

The computers are in the station William – the ones that are being closed.

And the cars are falling apart. For such a know it all you’re getting a lot wrong in this discussion…

William – there will always be examples of not getting a Garda at exact time u need one. If the Gardai are out at other calls then regardless of the station being proximate to the crime you will have to wait… The rural Garda station isn’t being described by the Gardai as a place where “in case of emergency, break glass” and Garda pops out….. The point of having the Garda Stn is having an almost nil cost base for the rural Garda…. Also other Gardai who attend traffic accidents etc in the area can use it as a base to drop by and collect equipment rather than drive 20 to 40km to do so.. We also have situations where some large community events are held and having Garda station as base is vital. Again I repeat, if there’s no major cost saving and no freeing up of manpower why close….. It smacks of Tick the box policing

@william

The more comments you leave, the more clueless you sound. It amazes me the amount of people who appear to know everything but actually know nothing at all.

Notice the post office which was robbed this week was less than 100m from the nearest police station.

How do you measure prevention!

So the station with only one reported crime (and I’d love to know what station this was) was obviously doing a fantastic job…its the Gardai’s job to prevent crime aswell as solve it incidents of it.

Tony, These stations prevent nothing!!! they have no purpose at all…this is all media hype tbh… the stations should close…

Tony, your comment re “station doing a fantastic job” is illogical. My sister in law puts out plastic bottles in her garden to ward off cats. I’ve pointed out to her that they also deter elephants as there are no elephants in her garden. If there was one recorded crime that doesn’t suggest in the slightest that it was because of the station. What do people do nowadays if they are burgled, run down to the station in the 3 hour window it’s open and report it to the half asleep guard?

Declan, media hype is correct. The media almost never analyse anything properly, nor do most people.

@William – there is a significant differenc between a station being manned and a station being open to the public. Incidentally there are very few domesticated elephants in Ireland so hardly compariable with crime prevention. Shoudl we get rid of teh street sweepers if the roads are clean also?

Tony, we have evidence that the street sweepers work because they gather up tons of rubbish. My point still stands, you can’t infer that if they have only a handful of crimes in a station it means the station is responsible. It’s often the case that crimes are committed next door to police stations, (never mind in them).

Should probably close the Fire Stations where they havent been enough fires in a area so aswell. John Parker ex president of the GRA, Damien McCarthy current president of the GRA, Willie Gleeson, President of the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, John Redmond, deputy general secretary of the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, Mick Carty former head of the Garda Emergency Response Unit and Former garda assistant commissioner Martin Donnellan have all come out and said that Shatters plan to close stations is flawed. I sincerely doubt your experience or knowledge on the subject ecxeeds that of the afore mentioned but as with Declan your unlikely to take off the FG issued rose tinted specs so I will leave it at that.

Paddy , FYI, surveys show that Police presence , or the lack of it , neither increases nor decreases the level of crime committed.

The Gardai are very bolchy as evidenced by their withdrawal from the Croke Park Agreement review. Asking the Guards do they want stations closed is like asking Turkeys to vote for Christmas. I’m sure pressure is put on their representatives by the guards who work in those stations because they have a cushy number and don’t want to move like all indentured civil servants. I do know something about these matters I was brought up by a Guard. Would Spar or Superquinn leave open a shop with 3 customers per week? The guards don’t have to pay for the stations.

John Parker (CURRENT) president of Garda Representative Association states that it’s more than a bricks & mortar issue with stations. The station itself acts as a hub for the community re community alert groups etc. There is minimal cost savings in closing stations. There is very little manpower freed up. Currently the Garda in the rural station is fully operational bar a short period of opening station. He is on patrol, doing checkpoints, calling to people and organisations. It’s community based policing. He intervenes before something snowballs, he is a problem solver. He also performs a number of days duty in the larger towns to assist…. (He is not desk bound)..In general most people have a good relationship with him and a lot if them provide an unpaid out of hours service to the community. On a per square mile or per head of population ratio he has more ground to cover and more people than an individual Garda in a larger town who has patrol cars and detectives on site… Because of the station he is able to ring fence a lot of his weeks work for that community but when u lose the station he will only b back in that community twice a week for an hour and after that it’s the odd visit re crime or patrol as he gets sucked under in the needs of larger town.

@rory i think i am confused by your post! Basically what your saying crime will occur no matter what we do?

John,
That was a great post. I have to admit, I was on the fence on this, I can see both sides of the argument. But you’ve convinced me.
My home village is a prime example. Our local Guard knows everyone. And everything about everyone.
Whereas in the town I live near now, where my wife has lived most of her life and taught in the local school for a few years. She went into the Garda station to get an ID signed by the Sargent. He said he didn’t know her and had no knowledge of her, so he wouldn’t sign it.
That’s not his fault, but even though I haven’t lived in my village for 22 years, the local Gaurd would know of me.

John, all these types of posts are meaningless BECAUSE they imply we should have a police station within a mile of everyone in the country. Why should we have decided for us in 2013 where there should be police stations simply because that’s where the Brits left them 90 years ago?

It’s nonsense to say a station costs little. Many are houses that could be sold for €200,000+ They have insurance, maintenance, heating, lighting, alarms, etc.. I’m sure most people would prefer to see the police patrolling the countryside in patrol cars, particularly at night, than sitting in stations where maybe a few people a day come in to get their passport photo signed or some other such trivia.

Danny your point is weird. Afaik guards have to sign the passport application whether they know you or not. You just need to convince them that you are who you say you are AND that the photo is of you. Most people don’t know their local police, does that mean we SHOULD close all the stations as it’s obviously irrelevant whether or not you know the police. If a guard knows you but you’re robbed by someone he doesn’t know. So what? It’s the criminals we want the police to know about and not the citizens.

William,
It wasn’t a passport application. It was because of a mix up with child benefit. It wasn’t a normal procedural application form. But, a letter of confirmation was required. She got it eventually, because she is quite well known in the area. Except to the Guard. Perhaps thats a good thing.

@Tony well said.

What studies ??? Love to see them !!!

@ William Grogan …. We are kinda singing from same hymn sheet … If there was a sufficient cost savings element or a freeing up of manpower I’d say there wd b partial excuse to close…. If stations were run down and needed costly overhaul also. But this is not so… The rural Garda wd often b better off if he was in the larger station with proper facilities and recreational facilities but they stay in rural station because its community policing on a larger scale and the job is made easier basing themselves and often living in the area. It is not self serving of the Garda, he has supervision of his duties from designated sgt in other area and he also often assists larger town for public order, joint checkpoints, planned operations and events.

By the way, the OPW who own Garda stations have admitted that most of the property portfolio is almost worthless or undervalued in current terms. They will not be selling now as it wd b at fire sale prices….. The properties will devalue due to deterioration and vandalism…. U wd keep their values up if they were bring opened from time to time and bit of heating…. And that’s just me being practical

@ William . How dare you say Gardai have a ‘cushy number ‘ less than a week after a Gardai gave his life protecting the public ! Gardai deal with hardened criminals every day , never knowing when a gun will be pulled on them . The majority of Gardai do a great job and put up with every kind of abuse possible on a daily basis .

In addition the closing of rural stations are giving more opportunities for criminals to target these areas . People in rural areas are entitled to as much protection as those in urban areas !

Mary, to use Garda Donoghue’s death as an argument when discussing whether to close small underused stations is pretty poor form. I also felt it was very poor form when Mr Stone made similar comments. My father was a Guard for 46 years and I totally support them and I as upset at his death as most people were. I am well aware what they have to put with.

All lobbying groups, and that includes those that work for the police, mainly consider their own positions and not anyone else’s. Trade Unions are the classic example. You have seen Yes Minister? Friends of mine who are civil servants assure me that is what happens.

The decision to close or leave open a Guard station is a matter for the lawfully elected public representatives. The state has to live within its means, It isn’t. All those affected are objecting basically because they put their own interests before everyone else’s. If you don’t realise that you are very naive.

You only relevant point is to do with protecting rural areas and as I have pointed out elsewhere, that involves deciding where stations go. At present we have stations where the British left them in an era where there were no cars, radios, computers etc.. It is perfectly logical to review these stations existence. It’s well overdue. I wonder how much money was wasted over the years keeping them open?

Now by all means read what I have posted and make whatever attempts you like to refute my points, but leave out the drama.

@ William Grogan. …. William, Mr Stone didn’t make similar comments. Mr Stones only comments to that point was an article in the Irish Examiner on Monday 28th Jan in which he stated when asked about same .. “Now is not the time to be speaking of resources etc”.He stated this because 2 Senior members of govt had spoken about resources and other issues were not a cause of the incident. Also one of those Govt ministers also made the comment that now wasnt an appropriate time but still went on to comment on resources in same breath as mentioning the killing.. A member of govt obv then made comments which gave an inaccurate picture re Mr Stone. This resulted in mr stone commenting on RTE about the Gardai being under great pressure, particularly the younger Gardai who weren’t in the job on 7th June 1996 when D/Garda Jerry McCabe was murdered and wouldn’t have experienced such an atrocity… Most of The media were told that GRA would not be making any comments re resources at this time. And this was repeated to any journalist who made contact. Also, That Govt would not be put under pressure. That all Gardai incl GRA were concentrating on supporting the family and the only media interactions were to comment on the savage viciousness of the atrocity and getting the message out there that Gardai would appreciate the community’s help in tracking down the killers.. And in fact GRA were in lock down as regards initiating any other media comment

If you we’re reared by a brain surgeon don’t mean you know anything about brain operations. Seriously misinformed my young friend

@ william couldn’t be bothered reading all our reply’s or comments but as far as i know its AGSI that have withdrawn from Croke park talks not Gra. maybe im wrong but i think im right. maybe google stuff before commenting!

@ William Grogan Also – you might amend your last post. Your father wasn’t a guard for 46years

Anyways, let’s all agree to differ on the situation re Garda stations. The main people who will suffer will be the people in the community where local stations are closed. This will mainly become more evident in a year or two….. Also at end of 2013 when the next list of closures are announced other communities will b affected. Honestly, there is very little self interest on the part of most of the Gardai moving to another station – their work will remain the same.

@william grogan spar is a business , our police force is a public service .. The real reason our government is closing stations is to cut costs to pay 64 billion to stupid and greedy bankers in Europe , u keep believing its about making our police more affective :) divide & conquer !!

Well said, nail on the head. This is all about paying off the white collar crooks.

Darren, I’m 57 but thanks for the compliment. I lived in a Garda barracks as a child. My father took me to road accidents when he was investigating them. I spent about 5,000 diners listening to what he got up to during the day. Most of his friends were guards. On the other hand my son is a programmer like me, and since he was 14. Doctors have doctors as sons. You do learn a great deal about your father’s job.

Mitch, the point about Spar is that in the real world businesses have to balance their books. The Guards don’t. I repeat again, why should we have the same number of stations the Brits left us with when Guards had only bicycles? Can you answer that? As someone cleverly said this week, why can’t we decide where barracks go and not our ex-colonisers who used them to keep the occupied under control.

John, my father was a Guard from when he was 18 or 19 until he retired at 65 years of age, about 20 years ago. Guards who joined before the war had an option to stay on to 65. If you’re a Guard I hope you check your facts more carefully before contradicting someone. [I knew someone would fall for that :)) ]

John, I’ll take your word that Stone was misrepresented by the media but this is a comment he made, “Reacting to the killing (of Adrian Donoghue), rank-and-file Garda leader PJ Stone said younger officers were living in “fear and trepidation” that they are not getting the backing needed to do their job.”

Peter, you said “william couldn’t be bothered reading all our reply’s or comments but as far as i know its AGSI that have withdrawn from Croke park talks not Gra”. I didn’t say it was the GRA. I said Guards withdrew and AGSI are made up of Guards are they not? Maybe before you reply to someone you should actually read what they said and not depend on second hand information. Didn’t they tell you that in Templemore? :)

Declan, why on Earth do you get all red thumbs, bar mine, for stating a fact???

@Declan the resources are force have are also completely out of line with the rest of Europe – we have no DNA database, ANPR’s not fitted to Garda vehicles, no in-car Pulse system, no link to data held by motor tax offices or vehicle registration offices, a chronic shortage of vehicles that are fit for purpose, gardai using their private mobiles as the radio system has massive black spots, Gardai here are not supplied with Tasers which means that where situations escalate more Gardai are required to immobilise a suspect…..the list goes on but its unlikely you will take off your party blinkers so I will leave it at that.

Tony, are you saying if we had a DNA database that you would be happy to shut say the bottom 20 stations which had about 100 crimes in total reported to them last year? Obviously those matters you draw attention to are important and if they could make savings maybe that’s where some of the savings should be spent.

What I am saying William (I thought it was pretty clear, actually I have just reread it and it is) is that you cannot compare station numbers from country to country unless the resources are the same. When the force is adequately resourced with policing tools and the technology required to do the job correctly in 2013 then we can revisit the requirement for the current number of stations as the technology would mean Gardai are not having to return to the relevant station to write up reports, search Pulse for anything relating to an offenses that has taken place etc etc (most forces do that from their car). What you cannot have is no stations and no modern resources. I am not saying the later ‘response’ policy would be effective but it should not be implemented until the tools to operate it are in palce regardless. As Denis says for someone who is such a know it all your information and knowledge on the subject seems to be limited at best…..but your doing Alan and Inda proud.

Tony, there’s no doubt that shiny new toys help the police but those stations were opened when they didn’t even have radios or squad cars, and the original squad cars were far less useful than even the worst of today’s cars. Apparently we have had the same number of stations since the Brits left.

Closing small stations with no turnover should have been done decades ago. That’s the disgrace in this.

Every time ANYONE tries to improve and change there are the majority who whine. Change doesn’t suit people – ever. The current number of small stations in a different era with modern communications had to be changed, and try and skip the personal insults it doesn’t make your case any better.

But Numbers of burglaries aren’t down. The rate at which burglaries were increasing has come down. So burglaries are still increasing but at a lower percentage… They increased in leaps and bounds over last few years and they are bound to level off at some stage but the total numbers will still be significantly ahead of figures for 2008 2009 etc

Laura!
Not one thing you said there has anything to do with William’s comments!! You have basically lauched a personal attack on him..
There is a lot of truth in what is being said..
D

Laura didn’t launch a personal attack. She pointed out the Fact that he appears to be non-resident…. Those of us who are resident and who pay taxes in this country and get robbed in this country or mugged in this country have a right to push/lobby/demand the necessary protections…. She didn’t tell him he couldn’t comment – just basically pointed out that more emphasis should go on the views of those of us who are currently digging the country out of a hole…

It’s not souped up cars with computers in them that keep communities safe. It’s hardworking, committed police doing good police work.

Laura, your account says you are a Princess and have an itchy arse so what does that say about you?

I am proud to be a Skeptic. That “training” and mind set makes me question everything, a skill more people she take up. Far too many people slavishly follow whatever fashion, religion, sCAM medicine, political football comes along. Myself and my fellow Skeptics don’t.

Facts can stand on their own. I don’t, like many people on the Journal, hide who I am. I’ve lived on and off in Ireland for years. I pay fe****g taxes in three countries if you must know.

PS The quote “I wouldn’t join any club that would have me as a member”, comes from the Marx Brothers.

William Grogan,

Yes I am a princess and yes I do have an itchy arse. Glad we cleared that up…

I don’t give a flip where you pay your taxes, I’m not customs, it’s nothing to do with me. I do however care about people who don’t live in this country being so quick to jump down people’s throats, people who actually DO live here, and presumably know more about what this country is like than a non-resident.

I commend you however William, for the amount of time and effort you have put into commenting on not only this article today but the other one regarding station closures. You’re passionate, I’ll give you that, a passionate know-it-all.

Good evening.

Laura, do you ever actually contribute to a discussion, i.e. the facts of a discussion, or are all your posts smart (itchy) arse comments?

It is William until it effects someone in your family or a friend. My wives grandmother who’s in her 70′s lives in the country. She is affected by the closure of her local one man station. Its amazing the physiological effect that it has had on her. She’s a strong lady both physically and mentally but knowing her local Garda is no longer on the end of the phone has her worried in the light of the amount of aggravated burglaries carried out on the elderly…

The tds have no compassion nor morals,they would rather see old people suffer just to keep a few white coller criminals in the big money,every single td needs a kick in the arse of biblical proportion

Kevin, I commented on this and it’s disappeared?? I know an elderly man who lives about a mile from a police station in Co Cork and he was assaulted and robbed last year. The police told his family that they couldn’t protect him so he’s moved in with his family a few miles away.