@rfeer, ah but you assume the left hand knows what the right hand is doing within the confines of Leinster House and it’s departments but the truth is they haven’t a foggiest clue how to do anything and most of them have been in their too long to see the wood for the trees.

I agree all this crap about us all in it together and nobody can escape the cuts.Well they did escape the cuts the same politicians escape the cuts…..we really are the lowest of the low when we reduce the disability allowances on those who would never be ever get a job due to sever disabilities fking low life Enda Kenny and Eamonn Gilmore.Least you can sleep easy can always look in the mirror and keep blamimg the other shower…but guess what we are sick of this one trick pony excuse.at least the last shower had the decenccy not to take from those in society who cant fight or speak up for themselves.but we will wait cause we are getting closer and closer to civil strife

I have to agree Siobhan I think that’s the most disgusting cut I’ve ever seen €188 to €88!I’ve started a new job an have a daily round trip of 300km so the diesel hike and 2% vat increase on top of that will hit me hard but it’s still nowhere near as bad as the disability cuts!!!

It’s a crying disgusting shame Jeanette………………how they can sleep in their beds…

I hope that anyone saying that this is a “good” or “fair” budget, or that cuts are absolutely necessary, reads your story, Jeannette, and thinks about what it’s going to mean for people.

Absolute disgrace.

Well said jeanette, they say young disabled people should be out working when this.is just not a possibility in a lot of cases. The government are a bunch of thieves. Best of luck to you and ur family, hope you can weather this storm.

Jeannette….it’s people like you who are the unsung heroes in my eyes….working day & night selflessly to care for your child….life is difficult enough without having to beg for entitlements for you & your son. It makes me sick.

very easy….their kids well protected disgusted to hear that prick howlin yesterday evening retort that disabled or not they should go out and get training….well minister some groups such as st michaels or cheeverstown do train people with disabilities but you put paid to those services by cutting their grants and were are these jobs that are supose to be out there….unless you were employed by fine gael and get a €37k pay rise and a job in the public sector as an advisor on jobs…were would u get it a person who never create a job gets a job as a jobs advisor only in ireland…it is time people stood up to this shower before we have four more of these german budgets….we should march and bring serrvices to a halt….we gave no government party a mandate to target the disabled children and adults in this state….they are the only people that can genuinely say we did not cause this mess it was the so called intelligent people of this state that destroyed our country….they should not be allowed to destroy the weakest of the weak now

Only today? It took you until today to be ashamed to be Irish? I guess the whole YES to Lisbon, people throwing away their Sovereignty, Independence and prostituting the economic futures of our country and kids to the EU/IMF and banks went right over your head up until now?

Did you vote for Enda and his 5 Point Plan

So in other words it tottaly affects you

depends on if you ve a td from your area . IRISH POLITICS

Theres an article on here about pre July 2008 cars

Motorists getting priced off the roads. Hard to agree with cuts on items and services such as hearing aids and special needs education. We had to cut but surely other areas could have covered special needs and such. How much are we spending on embassy’s does anyone know?

I favor the policy of economy, not because I wish to save money, but because I wish to save people. The men and women of this country who toil are the ones who bear the cost of the Government. Every dollar that we carelessly waste means that their life will be so much the more meager. Every dollar that we prudently save means that their life will be so much the more abundant. Economy is idealism in its most practical form.
Calvin Coolidge

Ah here, Seán, are trying to say that people on low to lower middle income should be thankful for these cuts?

Niall, I think the quote is selfexplanatory.
Coolidge acknowledges the fact that the burden of the state is borne by working people.
The more profligate and wasteful the state is, the greater the burden is on working people.
The more prudent and efficient; the burden diminishes.
I can’t find the part with salary brackets in it.

I think it’s pretty self-explanatory too Seán. The income brackets are relevant because these are the people who are primarily affected by the budget. For me, cuts and small government are not necessarily prudent or A Good Thing in and of themselves, nor do they necessarily breed “efficiencies”. Especially given the form they’ve taken in this budget.

If you accept Coolidges premise that those who toil bear the cost of government, you might appreciate his point the government has a duty to minimise the burden it places on working people.
In that light is the government justified in continuing with:
Bondholder bailouts
Bank bailouts
Maintaining 800 quangos
Pouring money into one of the most expensive and poorest performing health services in Europe
Maintaining pay levels to one of the highest paid civil/public sectors in Europe
Nama

But you may or may not accept that the State has a duty to respect, vindicate and facilitate certain basic rights for all of its citizens, regardless of their colour, creed, or wealth:

The right to health, the right to education to the best of one’s ability, the right to to decent housing and adequate food – essentially, the right to a life of dignity, and the opportunity to fulfill one’s potential.

Service delivery in these areas is the fundamental function of government, and should remain the priority, regardless of any budgetary concerns. Everything else is fair game, but mindless cuts in these sectors are, to me, unacceptable. Do you think that cutting from the HSE is going to magically make it “better”?

The state has been providing services “regardless of budgetary cocerns”. That’s the problem. All government expenditure is provided ultimately by taxpayers.
You may realise someday that all taxpayers are not wealthy. Even people on benefits pay taxes via VAT, excise etc.
Many taxpayers would like to be able to provide for their own families especially when the public finances become unsustainable because the state tended to show no regard for budgetary concerns.

Hahaha, thumbs down because I am lucky? Because I was smart to not buy a house, and not having a wife and children?

Ya. I’m grand with it. Could have been worse.

you obviously dont use gas or electricity as there were your extra vat going

For that reason, Somhaire, your fired ……

In a word no, and I am not one for public sector bashing.

Nope in the public sector they can fall back on their sick days allowance…..Heard Gilmore on the radio this morning saying that the government signed up to Croke Park and you must honour what u sign….Funny i could have swore i saw Ruari Quinn sign a declaration that student fees would not go up….now i wonder what did happened to that signed agreement eamonn.Oh yeah that is what we call a lie in the real world…..Gilmore also said in the same interview that we have to put europe first and have the euro sorted and Ireland second…..Good to know how hard they are fighting in Europe to have these bond holders burnt..public sector will never be touched or reformed by the politicians as they too are public sector…. turkeys dont vote for xmas

Beyond reproach? What the hell do you mean by that?! The public sector had a very significant pay cut in the 2010 budget as well as the pension levy. This has amounted to a loss of approx 30% of take home pay for frontline public sector workers. And yesterday it was announced that we would lose 5% of allowances & 10% of overtime. I haven’t seen one comment by a public sector worker complaining about this and yet you see fit to attack us for being “beyond reproach”?
You may sneer at yesterdays alterations to our pay, consider them insignificant, no less than we deserve. For many of us, however, these cuts will mean the difference between struggling to pay our mortgages and being unable to pay our mortgages.
For future reference, please educate yourself on the difference between public sector and civil service. Most of the bitterness on this site which is aimed at public sector workers actually refers to practices, “perks”, and entitlements which are commonplace in the civil service, NOT in the public sector.

I think the point is, Deirdre, that it shouldn’t be happening in the private sector either.

I’m after reading on politics.ie that:

“A family with three children on €150,000 p/a down about €1,020 p/a, family of 3 on Social Welfare down about €1,070 p/a”

Any comment, Daniel?

Wake up, Not to bad? Try living in the country and driving 93km each day to work.

Budget is great for me, I don’t drive :-)

Hi Niall, I think it’s great. Hard working families should keep more of what they make. We should reward those who work hard. If we tax those with disposable income they will have less to spend in the shops. This means less people employed and so on. I am happy this government hasn’t touched our pay packets.

More detailed response below … think “great” is an unfortunate choice of language, though.

ditto. Expected worse…

I’m pretty much untouched by it as well, give or take VAT, maybe some other small charges I haven’t factored in.

I could have afforded to pay a little more, and I wouldn’t have minded it.

I’m worried about what this is going to mean for those who are already on the brink, my fear is that it’s going to be the budget that drives thousands of people into poverty, that’s a huge problem for all of us. Never mind the effects what the reduced spending power is going to mean for shop owners and the economy as a whole.

It’s because of people like you Danny with the “i don’t mind” attitude that they will continue to take take take and know they can get away with it easily

Maybe because I lived in Poland, where average monthly income is at some €1000 a month, VAT goes up to 25% next year, and somehow people live and these days complain much less than here. I’m sorry that I can’t complain…

Thats it Danny. I pay a shitload more taxes in the Netherlands so Ireland is still good for me. Other than that the retail prices are way too high. Retailers should be ashamed of themselves, they are the ones milking the people in this country.

Why couldn’t they have brought in a change to the pensions for the politicians that they would have to be…oh let me see…PENSION AGE 65! in order to get their pension. Or why didn’t they bring in changes that would mean Pensions for past ministers would be means tested. I’m sure Bertie is still charging for this “presence”. They are quick enough to means test the rest of us when they want to.

David, as above, I’m interested to see if you have any comment on this:

“A family with three children on €150,000 p/a down about €1,020 p/a, family of 3 on Social Welfare down about €1,070 p/a”

David what planet are you living on? I work an average of 15 hours a week, this is all the work I can get! I’m now down €28 a week before vat etc. if I quit my job I can go back to full dole plus rent allowance! Now where is the incentive to work there?

@ Niall – What’s your point? Who’s contributing more? Tax payers can’t be expected to endlessly fund social welfare increases and not be entitled to anything back themselves in my opinion.

@ Adam – There is an incentive for you to get a full time job.

So, the same cut for a family taking home around €20k at a push as for a family taking home €150k is fair, is it?

@ Niall, what is your take on the VAT?

I think that the budget as a whole is an utter disgrace. It’s about hitting the most marginalised and powerless with the bulk of the cuts, and leaving high earners essentially unscathed.

The VAT increase is going to be counterproductivve – it’s will depress the economy by reducing demand, and will disproportionately affect those who can least afford it. Same goes for all these flat rate measures, which cost the same to everybody regardless of their income. Of course, most of the revenue measures have had that character.

I was actually to the fairness of the VAT because its the same for the rich and the poor. So VAT for someone making 150k/a is the same for the person on welfare. But nobody seems to mind that.

If I take home €20k, and I have to pay, say, €300 in extra VAT in a year is about 0.015% of my income.

If I take home €150k, it’s 0.0002%.

That’s 75 times as much, proportionally. Still seem fair to you?

That’s without even starting on other cuts.

Agree with that analysis. I’m a middle income worker with young kids. I’ve only really been hit with VAT, property tax and increased motor tax. Ill comfortably survive. I have sympathy for anyone one welfare, especially anyone who can’t genuinely work, however, I believe people have to start accepting they can no longer be owed a living by the State. It seems a process has begun to wean people off welfare and encourage them back into work. I’m not a right winger but im fed up listening to people complaining about cuts to their state handouts like it grows on trees and is a birth right to them.

@david the point I’m trying to make is there is no full time employment for me! When I lost my last job I went straight out and got a few part time hours in my local bar. I had to wait 9 weeks for social welfare ( including 1 1/2 weeks just for an appointment to submit my form) I meanwhile had to pay my rent, esb, bins etc. from what little savings I had. I hate being on the dole, I’d love a full time job but I paid my way during the good times but I’m being screwed in the bad because I try to support myself!

Where are the jobs going to come from? Where are people going to get funding to start up their own businesses?

If you can answer that, maybe this “incentive” argument might hold some water.

Way I see it, if we wanted to “wean” people out of a “welfare culture”, that should have been done when there was full employment, not at a time of chronic unemployment.

@ Niall. YEP. It is fair. Only a communist would try to punish success. If the family on 20k wants more money they better be prepared to work for it.

Some amount of whingers on here who think the world owes them a living. Get off your backside and work for it if you want it.

@ Niall – I think you need to brush up on your maths. The person earning 150K doesn’t take home that much. They pay a hell of a lot of tax out of it. And if you “take home” 20K p.a you will not be paying €300 in extra VAT in a year despite what the tabloids are telling you. People weren’t weaned off social welfare when there was full employment as should be the case so it has to be done now. We are where we are and we have to fill the deficit a right the wrongs of the past.

David, I specifically said a person taking home those amounts, it’s a hypothetical example. another point is that SW money generally goes straight back into circulation on living expenses, so benefits the economy as a whole, where those on high incomes earn so much in excess of ordinary living expenses that much of there earnings can tend to be taken out of circulation.

Daniel, so, asking people to bear the weight of these “adjustments” according to their means amounts to punishment now, does it?

Think it’s pretty naïve to assume that hard work will inevitably lead to a higher income, also. Especially seeing that, at the moment there aren’t jobs to be had, or funds to start up businesses.

There’s a sense of entitlement operating in this country, not just among those on social welfare – we all have obligations to the wider society. Will be a pretty dismal place to live in 5 years time if we lose sight of that, as appears to be happening.

@ Niall, apparently I didnt explain myself clear enough. I meant VAT is an unfair tax because its the same for everyone, for the rich and the poor. But no one seems to talk about VAT. Funny, I got 8 thumbs down for saying the same thing as you with 11 thumbs up. Shows that the people have no idea what they are talking about.

Fair enough, chief – was surprised at you saying VAT was “fair” alright, but that’s how I read it.