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Dublin: 14 °C Sunday 19 May, 2013

‘Margaret died of her slave-related injuries’: a Magdalene daughter shares her story

“Margaret was committed to industrial school in 1954. She was 2 yrs 4 mths old. She left 49 years later in a coffin.”

Image: Virgin Mary depiction via Shutterstock

HER FIRST TWEET simply said: “My mother was Magdalene No. 322. Real name Margaret.”

It was met by a number of reactions, including disbelief that Magdalenes were given numbers.

“Yes,” replied Samantha Long. “I was looking over her records today and thought I’d share that. Awful.”

The Twitter user was talking about her late mother, Margaret Bullen, a woman taken into the Magdalene Laundries system when she was just two years old.

Just days ahead of the publication of a report into the level of State involvement at the now-infamous institutions, Long decided to share her family’s story.

There had been a campaign to get the hashtag #justiceformagdalenesNOW trending on Twitter to raise awareness last night and the Dublin woman’s provocative, powerful and heartbreaking tweets achieved that aim.

With her kind permission, we have reproduced her timeline here:

My mother was Magdalene No. 322. Real name Margaret
Margaret was committed to industrial school in 1954. She was 2 yrs 4 mths old. She left 49 years later in a coffin.
By the age of 5, Margaret was preparing breakfast for 70 children including herself from 4am. Child labour
Margaret was noted in her records as “nervous, timid, fretful, a bed-wetter”. No wonder, she was never toilet trained
Margaret didn’t know where she was from or when her birthday was. We told her when she was 42
At age 13, Margaret had her IQ measured. She was “certified” as fit for work, unfit for education. Labour camps.
Margaret never lived in the outside world, although she lived just off O’Connell Street in our capital city
Margaret didn’t know how to handle money. She had none, and no posessions
Margaret never went on a date, Never had a boyfriend. Never fell in love. But she was impregnated in care
Margaret’s twin daughters were taken from her 7 weeks after she gave birth.When she saw us again we were 23
When we reunited at the Gresham, Margaret was 42. Not that you’d think it

Margaret

At The Gresham in 1995, Margaret was excited. Not just to meet us,but it was the first time she ever tasted coffee
When I became a mother in 2004, it was the first time I allowed myself to grieve for Margaret’s life unlived, denials
Margaret and my family enjoyed each other for a few years, hard to recreate deep love after so long
Margaret died in July 2003, one day before her 51st birthday. She died of her slave related injuries
Six months after her death, her first grandchild was born. She would have loved her four grandchildren
I hope for justice for Margaret and her friends on Tuesday. Thank you all so much for the support. I think she knows
I am astounded at the reaction to my tweets about Margaret.Impossible to reply to all.Thank you,I am humbled
Goodnight all,finally. Míle buíochas #justiceformagdalenesNOW

Senator Martin McAleese’s report has been sent to Justice Minister Alan Shatter, who will publish it in full on Tuesday afternoon, following a Cabinet meeting.

The long-awaited report has been delayed multiple times since the inter-departmental committee was established in response to a recommendation from the United Nations Committee Against Torture (UNCAT). That body said it was “gravely concerned” at the failure of the State to protect girls and women who were involuntarily confined between 1922 and 1996.

Advocacy groups have called for a full State apology, as well as a proper, transparent compensation scheme for survivors. About 30,000 women were incarcerated in Magdalene Laundries between 1922 and 1996.

TheJournal.ie has previously told Margaret’s story and that piece can be found here. Samantha Long has also written about both her mothers in this touching blog post.

READ: Magdalenes hope for an apology after a long fight

Read next:

Comments (198 Comments)

  • This story is horrific. But I fear there is still worse to come on Tuesday.

    Reply
    • Eoin. The Catholic church still has a strong influence in this country. You only have to look how scared the
      policitians are of the Clergy over the abortion issue. I wonder whether we will ever see the complete separation of the Church and state. with the clergy to stop interferring. I’m not from Ireland but if I had realised what it was like here I wouldn’t have come here. It’s SICK MAKING. We must be the laughing stock of Europe and other
      countries, Everyone heard of the Savita affair.

      Reply
  • I never knew they were around until as recently as 1996. Hard to imagine how people could do this for so long. Hard to imagine how they could do it at all actually.

    Reply
    • And it wasn’t just until 1996. Margaret was working as a slave until 2003 in a convent in the heart of our capital city. 2003!!!!! We thought then that we were finally a modern nation joing the rest of Europe with the euro a year before. Yet we were still stuck in the Middle Ages. That’s the year we held the Special Olympics a few kilometres from where Margaret was kept, while we showed off to the rest of the world what a caring nation we are.

      This was and is absolutely sick. If this crime against humanity does not get at least the same treatment from our govenrment as the child abuse scandal, then there is no respect for human dignity in Ireland anymore.

      Reply
    • Ciara 03/02/13 #

      You are so right. This sick mindset prevails to this day, don’t be fooled that its all in the past it’s not! #justiceformagdalenes

      Reply
    • Who are you people that give the thumbs down ???? Which planet do you live on ????

      Reply
  • Shame on everyone involved , it never ceases to amaze me the sadism of the Catholic Church .

    Reply
    • As the only organisations in existence in Ireland that provided services in those days were Catholic it’s like saying White people abused children , lets attack White people. Logic is being twisted. Accuse the individuals and lock them up.

      Reply
    • Just like the schools, they were the only organisation ALLOWED to provide these so called services. Stop being an apologist for this sadistic organisation.

      Reply
    • Tom I don’t agree we had a group called the state ,for the leaders of the day to take the easy way out is not so bad,for them to allow the church exploit people in our name is gross negligence and for the church to knowingly incarcerate innocent women and put them to work for no pay is slavery,end of story.this isn’t church bashing these are the facts

      Reply
    • Shame on the entire country. Every single adult knew about the Magdelene Laundries and the Industrial Schools. It’s so typically Irish to deflect responsibility on to the narrowest group possible.

      Reply
    • People are feeding on their own hate propaganda. Deal with the actual bad things done and stop weakening the cause of the victims trying to destroy the 98% innocent with the 2% Guilty

      Reply
    • not twisted tom. The reason why these places existed was stigma on children outside of wedlock and no state help for people in poverty. your logic is twisted. Its like saying concentration camps by the nazis were unnecessary because Jews were unemployed and needed to be “looked after”

      your very pro catholic very anti choice as i do recall from previous posts. Thankfully your kind is a minority these days

      Reply
    • I don’t understand what you mean Tom,does that mean that the only complainants to get compensation are the ones who can prove their maltreatment??or do you just not wanting anyone to speak the truth about the church,the truth is that the Catholic Church was given free reign to run the country in many ways and places and this is one example where they incarcerated innocent people and made them work for zero payment,that is the definition of slavery and the church should be punished for these human rights violations.

      Reply
    • and to be honest tom i was taking peek at past posts of yours and i honestly cant tell if your trolling or warped. either way the church was anti condoms ( now legal ) criminalizing gay couples (now legal) against divorce (now legal) and anti abortion as their last stand but soon to be legal. Also controlling through fear and ignorance (much more educated now) The days of catholic guilt and obidence to a church that wrote its own rules on the bible are over. Only sad thing is that it still has hold on populations in less developed countries but that will change too.

      never again will we see priests, christian brothers or nuns running our state institutions.

      Reply
    • Your god won’t save you and your cohorts. Unfortunately because he isn’t real he won’t punish them either.

      Reply
    • Eh… They ran on a supposedly “Catholic” ethos.. Se we are entitled to call a spade a spade…

      Reply
    • It’s not just the catholic church, the Irish state is up to it’s neck in this too, they allowed it to happen, they gave the power to the catholic church to do as they pleased without any supervision and as we have seen from all the recent publications about clerical abuse they are still getting away with it scott free, how many priest have been jailed? how many bishops who covered up crimes have been jailed? NONE! The despicable cult at the centre of all of this is STILL in charge of most of Irish schools, hospitals, teacher training colleges, care homes and still owns vast property portfolios. Their recent attacks on the govt. over the abortion issue shows they still think THEY rule the country and in Ireland they have a significant following of diehards who will always put Rome first and Ireland second many of these people are in positions of influence in govt. the civil service and many other areas such as the judiciary, police and health and education bodies. The malign influence of this vile sect has not gone away you know! The Magdalene gulags or slave camps were and are a crime against humanity, the thousands of vulnerable men, women and children along with the disabled who were tortured and murdered by the various religious orders and the Irish state deserve to be given the justice they deserve and I hope the UN is ready to condemn the Irish state and the Catholic church for what they have done. It’s time the people of Ireland woke up and seen the catholic church for what it really is. The sooner it is extinct in Ireland the sooner the Irish will be free from it’s evil.

      Reply
  • I was chatting to a Magdeline survivor yesterday, and was incredibly and rightly proud that her efforts in getting the report (due to be made public on Tuesday at 4pm) have borne fruit.
    I sincerely hope that the report reaches all the right places, and is properly acted upon.

    Reply
  • I didn’t know the reality of industrial schools when I was growing up. I honestly thought they were for young offenders who’d been put there by the Courts. As for the laundries – my first knowledge was in the 1990s when the controversy of moving graves occurred. The irony is that I was born in an orphanage but lucky to be adopted.

    Reply
  • So sad and shocking that people do this to other people. No religious or state body can ever again be allowed to do anything remotely like this again, ever. It proves the old saying, power corrupts, especially power that is not transparent and accountable. Great that her story is public.

    Reply
  • Heartbreaking story. That one womans life can be distilled to this..a bloody number..no education, no money, no respect, no choices to make.. Totally inhuman. I’m ashamed to be Irish reading this. And that we can condemn others for human-rights issues when this was happening to thousands, on our doorsteps, is hypocritical beyond belief. May all these women & their families get the apologies & redress that they deserve, now.

    Reply
  • Sickening that was allowed happen, that’s what happens when religious orders are given so much power by governments.

    Hopefully these victims reciece their due entitlements.

    Reply
    • But in fact, they never had the legal power to incarcerate women. Any individual in Ireland could have turned up in the High Court with an application for habeas corpus, and the whole shebang would have been out of business in 3 days. No one ever did.

      It was people who gave these sadists power, not just government.

      Reply
  • As a survivor of horrendous abuse at the hands etc of these “Religious” fascists … from the age of 4 until I was 17; please don’t tell me that the other teachers and staff in the schools etc, did not know what was going on. They must all have been blind, deaf and dumb. Even the Doctors knew and did nothing. In my case the medical profession expunged from their report the allegation that I was abused … even though my parents had told them. The written transcript of the interview included their statement of the abuse … the typed transcript omitted it. That happened in St John of Gods in Stillorgan in 1971. The abuse was carried out by the Presentation brothers and lay teachers in Birr, Co Offaly and in Presentation Brothers Juniorates in Colaiste Threise and Colaiste Mhuira in Cork City (I having been told that I had a vocation (at 12-years-old) and believing it in the hope of escaping the abuse in Birr. No such luck. The bastards were still denying it and forbidding me from writing or talking about it … as they settled out of court in October 2008 … 55 years after the start of the abuse. Arrest the lot of them … take all their property and possesions … everything … into proper public ownership … and give compensation to the abused. Let them live in poverty, chastity and obedience … in every sense of the word. (Please forgive spelling mistakes of the colleges/Juniorates in Cork … suffice to say that both of them have been demolished and redeveloped at great profit to the Order. I detest the Catholic Taliban.

    Reply
  • What a state we live in and lived in !

    Reply
    • Michael
      Yes you are totally correct.
      When I was a child it was often said by adults to children that if they misbehaved they would be sent to Artane or the Magdalenes. In other words adults in aireland knew all about these places and were thus complicit with what went on in such places.
      Many years later we had nearly eight hundred thousand bogus non resident Bank accounts in Ireland for the purpose of mass tax evasion and more recently some five hundred thousand people have evaded their legal obligations on the Household Charge.
      All the foregoing prove that we are a corrupt and dishonest Nation and we avoid and evade all of our responsibilities until caught out.
      The attempt by many of simply blaming the Church is a cop out of the highest possible order because runaway girls were returned by Gardai and members of the public. We were all complicit.
      Yes a great little country.

      Reply
    • Clearly corruption is alive and strong here. The big question… What can we do about it. I am tired of people saying to me: 1) If you don’t like it… You can go back to where you came from 2) It is worse in other countries. 3) This is the way things are done.

      The comments that have been said to me are unacceptable!!!!

      There are always solutions to problems. Let’s get our act together and stop the whinging. Happiness, contentment and satisfaction with existence and way of life is possible.

      Though the solution in 1916 was somewhat severe. … It ultimately resolved one huge problem.

      Reply
    • I’m not sure the magdalene laundries would have been allowed under British rule, did the same thing happen in the north?

      Reply
    • Ah Marlon – you speak sense but sadly Paddy / Mark / Michael – whatever he’s calling himself today wouldn’t agree with calls for a revolution.. You see he wants to give out about corruption, but refuses to see how corrupt this bailing out the banks nonsense is. He doesn’t see that those opposing the household charge are doing so as a means of peaceful non compliance – he doesn’t realise that it is a patriots duty to fight unjust laws and work for the higher good of the nation.. He just reckons everyone should fall in line with whatever the government wants – which is funny, because it was the government who allowed the church to get away with these horrific abuses, it was the governments who permitted the churches influence over policy. The people came to accept it as they had been educated by the church / state schools to accept authority as truth and never to question it.

      We have awoken from our ignorant slumber, we started asking questions and when the answers turned out to be bullshit the veil was lifted. We have learned that the church and the state are corrupt which is why we, the PEOPLE oppose their actions..

      I’m with you on the need for a revolution.. This country needs a revamp, and what better time than coming up for our 100 year anniversary of 1916? I just hope that we get it right this time..

      Reply
    • The Magdalene laundries predate the formation of the Irish state see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_asylum. Irish Catholic orders didnt have a monoply on creulty but kept it alive a lot longer than others.
      Whatever their origin, what I find hardest to take is that the people who ran them & were complicit in their operations (those in government) will not be held accountable as most are dead. The self righteousness & brutality of these so called Christians sickens me to the core. I remember the young pregnant girls in Bessboro (Sacred Heart Adoption Soc) in Blackrock, Cork walking to the local shop up to the late ’80s. We were a few years younger & had a morbid fascination with them as we knew they were “bad” in some way. You never got a straight answer if you asked about them. I don’t know how they were treated in the 80s but they were definitely put working on the farm there in the 60s even while heavily pregnant

      Reply
    • The revolutionaries of 1916 initially were poets, authors and the educated. They all had the ability of seeing what can be instead of what was and what is…. They were outliers… They were intially considered mad and odd. Their actions were thought to be misguided and a pipe dream. They would have been forgotten had they not been executed.

      My point is that for change to occur, it will require the power of the creative thinkers, the motivated and the hungry. Though there is a certain steel and determination in each Irish person. However, it appears that the steel and determination of the Irish lies asleep until lives are lost or someone else is witbout. Never, it appears, would the average Irish person of today fight the system for their own cause.

      This must change. We need focus on our own country. We need clean our own house before focusing on some else’s house. We need to accept guidance and help wherever possible.

      Reply
    • I remember being taken for weekend walks by my father past the Bessbouough home down near the lake lands, not far from Blackrock. We asked him who lived there and he said nuns who looked after girls who had got into trouble. We didn’t,t know about that then . Father wouldn’t elaborate any further!

      Reply
    • We all have horrible things that we’ve done that are possibly secrets. Sometimes we confess the bad we’ve done, and sometimes the find their way to light by itself…. Regardless how tbey come to light. Honesty and full disclosure is necessary and important. Truthfully, honesty and full disclosure is not a trait of the Irish machine.

      Had truth, honesty and full disclosure followed any of the horrible events that has overcome us tbe past five years…. We would be in a healthier place. But our church and government is allergic to honesty and full disclosure.

      Reply
  • terry 03/02/13 #

    So very very sad.
    With the child sexual abuse scandals and the slavery in this place catholics should boycott the church and the government should actively seek reparations for the citizens of this country from this foul institution.

    Reply
    • Yet the church never really seems to be held accountable,

      Reply
    • The last FF government let the church off dont know if this government changed it

      Reply
    • Doesn’t the Catholic Church have billions in their accounts? Why is that money sitting there when their core beliefs are to “help the poor and needy?”, i was raised as a catholic, never had a choice, was just told that was my religion like most Irish but I still can’t fathom what their beliefs are, they tell us “only god can judge”… Yet all they ever do is judge!

      Reply
    • I didn’t know about these industrial schools until recently. The whole thing frightens me. I saw the film Magdelene
      sisters and was revolted by it. I never want to see that film again,or anything like it. The Fr Brendan Smith
      film on TV was revolting, I wanted to throw-up.

      Reply
    • Karolyn
      Don’t build your thesis around a suggestion that the Roman Catholic Church is hoarding billions as it is patently untrue. If you were to look at them as you would a business they have virtually no cash and their fixed assets are in properties ( churches ) that couldn’t be sold as they are mostly in forms of ownership that could not be untangled.
      They do have a museum in the Vatican with priceless artifacts that have been given to them over the years by Heads of State but most of these could not be sold as gifts from State to State should be returned if no longer required under diplomatic protocols.

      Reply
    • Sure it’s leader is “infallible”

      Reply
    • Ah yes the old misunderstood “infallible” argument. The Pope is only infallible when he speaks ‘ex cathedra’ which was last done in 1950 by Pope Pius XII.

      Reply
    • Infallibility is not misunderstood at all because even a four year old child will tell you that no human being is infallible. “Ex cathedra” is meaningless gibberish. I could stand up in my local pub and claim to be infallible, but only when I’m speaking at the pinball machine. Utter garbage. A true religious believer acknowledges that God and God alone could possibly be infallible. To claim that the head of your religion is infallible means that you have no need of God at all – which is why the catholic religion has been, and continues to be, responsible for so much evil in the world.

      Reply
    • Richard / Mark / Paddy / Michael / Mark Paddy (have I forgotten any?)

      The Pope faffs about in Versace. Draped with gold, surrounded by priceless artefacts – yet still preaches “go – sell everything you have and give to the poor”.
      The Vatican state do not pay their dues either – weren’t they let off with some huge tax bill lately?

      And if you would care to look to Africa you would see history repeating itself (as I’m sure you will in any developing nation that these hypocrites have sunk their teeth into), just like here – those poor souls who rely upon the church for their education are brainwashed into giving every thing they have to the collection plate while the priests live in luxury.
      The ONLY reason the church is involved in charity in developing and impoverished nations is so that they can spread their cult. This is their cash cow. Just like Ireland was before we shook ourselves awake and told these greedy, self serving perverts to go and f themselves.

      Reply
    • Ah Richard, how wrong can one be? By the 1990’s alone the Vatican Bank (or Istituto per le Opere di Religione – IOR) had invested over $10 billion in foreign companies, it is also estimated that worldwide collections total $50 billion per annum, while running costs need to come out of these, remember all construction or maintenance work is tax-free as it is essentially classified as a charity, or what I would call, an off-shore tax haven.

      Reply
    • There are plenty of catholic charities. Educate yourself.

      Reply
    • Karolyn did you know that the uk is owned by the Vatican so there is money some where

      Reply
    • bullshit

      Reply
    • Your really understating the wealth of the Catholic Church Richard I suggest you do more research before you make
      Such statements. May I suggest reading “In Gods Name” by David Yallop or google Bernardino Nogara the man responsible for making the Vatican the wealthiest organisation in the world.

      Reply
  • Church and state, the worst combination for collusion. You have won my respect Samantha fighting for your mothers rights and the wrong doing the church, state and Irish society did to you mother.

    Reply
  • Following on from my above comment … I should point out that I attended ordinary National School in Birr and that the two Juniorates in Cork were also owned by the same “religious” Order the Presentation Brothers. There was not a boy in my class who was not abused in one way or another … I believe that all of them were psychologically damaged and all too many ended up being alcoholics as a consequence. To my knowledge up to 14 of the Confirmation class had died before the age of 30. Like so many of our generation … we couldn’t wait to get out of the priest smothering hell called Holy Ireland.

    Reply
  • Remember this as you bow down in Mass today. Makes me sick to my stomach. Rip it (church) up and start again ( if you must) but rip it up. Rest in Peace Margaret.

    Reply
  • This country, government and church are a disgrace.
    I am ashamed to call myself an Irish Catholic.
    RIP to all of those who were betrayed, abused and suffered at the hands of the church and state.
    Seperate now.

    Reply
    • Why not drop the catholic bit then? Anyone why doesn’t shares the guilt by association.

      Reply
    • Give up the religion and go back to your god. Catholicism has nothing to do with Christianity anyway. Jesus said his father wouldn’t be found in a temple (Isaiah 7 I think) and warned of the hierarchy of men who wish to put themselves between you and his father – at least that’s what it says in the actual bible.. Catholics aren’t really encouraged to read it – just to accept what the priest tells you about it.

      If you have faith – which is your right, then embrace it. Faith is belief in god – religions are just beliefs about god..

      Reply
    • DeValera gave a special position to the catholic church in the constitution. While he ruled the country he allowed the church rule the people I can’t understand how the people let the church get away with it. I grew up in London and went to a catholic school. . As a young child I knew something was amiss with the warped teachings of the church so I stopped listening.

      Reply
    • Clearly and you stopped understanding too by the sound of it !

      Reply
  • Sad and speechless this lady and others suffered as a result of these bloody nuns that were responable,Lots of very good hearted nuns who live their life in helping others These cruel bitches should have a place along side hitler

    Reply
    • But all those lovely nuns, and lovely priests, did absolutely Jack Shit about the damage that was being done. Just as guilty. If there were so many of the good ones they could have overpowered the bad ones!!!

      Give me strength! Guilt is a hard thing to carry.

      Reply
  • The Catholic Church shame on them.

    Reply
    • In my opinion,the state are more to blame than the church, successive governments allowed this false imprisonment,slavery & torture to continue , decade after decade. I’m so shocked that it happened in to the nineties,personally I would like to see prosecution’s for those responsible. Alas this is Ireland !!

      Reply
    • Same on the government and shame on the people. They all knew it was happening.

      Reply
  • Just listening to ex Stanhope Street “residents” on RTE Radio One and the fiction that it was a training centre even though it was in reality and laundry

    I heard with revulsion Aylwards fob off to the UN.

    This was child torture.

    Reply
  • Very sad story – Samantha is an amazing woman, and so brave to share it. If this account is indicative of what is to come in Tuesday’s report, it will be horrific. Justice, compensation and an apology are long overdue to these women and their children. Unfortunately, for many it is too late.

    Reply
  • Ireland needs to rid itself of such clericalism, the State must remove itself from Catholic and other religious influences.

    Reply
  • I’ve sad it before and I’ll say it again. The politicians of Ireland (then and now) and the Catholic Church are the destructive sources of our ills. There is no hope until the church and state are seperated. And when their is political reform. Political reform being. .. True democracy for the people.

    Reply
    • Marlon
      What model of Democracy would you care for? Ours emulates the greatest systems in the world. Perhaps you have experiences for elsewhere that could inform us of what you mean?

      Reply
    • @ Marlon Major, yes, we need to separate Church and State. The Roman Catholic Church has a pernicious influence on Irish public and political life. We will not be a true Republic unless or until the unhealthy influence of Roman Catholicism is cast off.

      Reply
    • Paul 03/02/13 #

      Ours comes nowhere near emulating the best. We have a government elected from a parliament which it dominates, parliament should hold the government to account but the Dáil is feeble and the Seanad comes with a built-in majority selected by and in support of the Taoiseach. Who is holding the govt to account? They are an indirectly-elected dictatorship, immune to democracy and in charge of the courts.
      We vote for local representatives, they vote for a party leader and only TDs can vote for Taoiseach. A better system would have the entire country elect the Taoiseach separate from the parliament.

      Reply
    • Richard…

      Clearly the pirectdemocracyireland.ieesent political system isn’t working. The true question is…. Has it ever worked? With being said… The original Irish constitution gave the people of Ireland more power to question the governing of the state by politicians. What this equated to was a democratic Republic which gave the public the power to question and test the laws created by politicians and also their ability to govern.

      The new Irish constitution of 1936 modified changed democracy. It took the ability to question politicians and fire politicians away from the people. Presently the only way to test a law or dismiss a politician is through the initiative of another politician. So… You or I can’t really do anything. A petition with all the signatures in the world wouldn’t move the system unless a politician had an invested interest.

      Direct Democracy Ireland (DDI) is currently analyzing our own constitution and working government and comparing to other countries. There goal is to devise recommendations for a better democratic republic. Take a look at tbeir website for more information. Recently, they wrote about the Switzerland’s form of democracy. Since no country is perfect… Comparing every country for Best Practices could be the key.

      Our goal should be as a people… Is leaving a better Ireland for our children and grandchildren.

      Reply
    • Well said Marlon.

      Reply
    • Peter… We are like minded with point. However, I am often sadend by the large percentage of people who finds this topic seperation offensive or sacrilegious. Their opions are held strong, even faced with abuses, corruption and dishonesty of the Catholic church supported by Popes for centuries.

      The church and the state seperated can co-exist without damage to the souls of the Irish people.

      Reply
    • Paul… It appears that you are self taught on tbe finer points of our government. This is great! However, it is very sad that others haven’t a clue. It appears that others knows something is wrong…. But can’t put a finger on the problem. Of course, it’s not one problem… But many problems that make up the whole. We really have to work hard to fix those problems.

      But the easiest fix… Is to replace religion taught in schools with Civic Studies. This course would include years of study on Irish political history, both constitutions, our govermental structure, the best and worse of past and current politicians and the govermental structures of other countries.

      We really need to plant seeds of a better Ireland minds of our children.

      This will do attitude isn’t acceptable.

      Reply
    • Good comment.

      Reply
  • During this period, the Irish Catholic missionaries were travelling the World ‘saving’ the heathens. WONDERFUL – the sheer bloody arrogance.

    Reply
  • How is it possible that this torture and maltreatment could have happened in institutions run by the religious? How did they not realise what they were doing? How did their instinctive compassion and empathy not kick in?

    What happened was revolting. The lives of these women were maimed and in some cases destroyed. Lives which could have had some happiness and joy were made utterly miserable and limited.

    I notice that the defenders of the religious institutions simply don’t seem to recognise or be able to recognise the dreadful tragedies and cruelties inflicted on these young girls and women. They just don’t seem to be outraged. There is no shame, no apparent regret , just lame references to lack of State report. Feeble responses.

    Reply
    • @ Peter – I am a Catholic in my early thirties and of course I am appalled by any form of abuse particularly against vulnerable people. But I will defend the Catholic Church because I know that the huge majority of priests and nuns actually are good people.
      What is also true is that the magnitude of fear that good clergy felt is often overlooked when people state that everyone knew – so did the laity in several areas.

      Reply
    • No … they are not “good” people … Good people speak out without fear against injustice. To me it’s like people still joining the Nazis in the knowledge of what they have done … and trying to make out that somehow they are different. The institution is corrupt and corrupts everything it touches …
      I have written a comment below of my experience of these “good” people …

      Reply
    • Look at what the church is doing in Africa TODAY Worf.
      There’s nothing moral or righteous about these institutions. It’s not even Christianity FFS.
      Try reading the bible, you’ll soon realise that the church is a con job.

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    • I am as disgusted as anyone else by the Magdalen stories. But I also think we need, as a society, to fairly & ojectively, acknowledge the good done by the church, & not just the abuses & injustices.
      We have to carefully weigh up that legacy. Even if I hated the church, I could still acknowledge that there has been alot of good done as well.
      In Dublin city centre, last November, I witnessed a frail & elderly nun, who was alone, being subjected to the most viscious verbal abuse, by two men. I came to her assistance, & was at all times respectful & courteous.
      I too was subjected to such abuse, that I was shaken emotionally for a number of weeks after.
      At one point I was afraid for my physical safety. Before I could alert any nearby guards, the men just walked away down the street, as if what they had done was the most normal thing in the world.
      I should have kept walking by & not come to her aid, but I could not stand by and watch that. The nun briefly confided in me that she had spent her whole life, (to the best of her ability), trying to help others & do some form of good in the world.
      She insisted to me that she was ok after the incident,- but then admitted to me that deep down she no longer felt safe walking down the street alone, wearing a veil, or clerical uniform.
      Alot of the outrage over Magdalen may be entirely justifiable, – but we have to be careful of a ‘lynch mob’ mentality arising, ot of demonising a whole group of people.
      What happened in the laundries was wrong, a very harsh & brutal system. But what that elderly nun had to suffer on the street that day, was wrong also.
      We as a society have to carefully weigh up the good, as well as the bad.

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    • Evil triumps when good people do nothing,

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    • This is far too serious and too naive of you to suggest the “huge majority of priests and nuns actually are good people.” The Catholic Church is a cabal of evil.

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    • As I have said before and will say again Zoe – it is ridiculous to assume that every member of the Catholic Church is evil – but the institution itself is.
      Those who are decent people and are appalled by the actions of the group they identify with should realise that they can leave, they can branch off as so many have before them. It’s called a schism. Martin Luther did it, and over something far more trivial than revulsion over the acts of the hierarchy. By remaining they merely continue to hold this vile, corrupt institution up as a powerful entity.

      For two grown men to be picking on a frail old woman is wrong – it is wrong to pick on those who are weaker than you. The same way it was wrong for nuns to beat children, use them as slaves and imprison them, and for priests to molest them. For all we know that nun may personally have beaten those men as children, or people they knew, they may have felt that they were giving her a taste of her own medicine, as wrong as that is – they may have felt as justified in their actions as those nuns running the laundries did.

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    • Shanti, The nun was simply walking down the street, a gentle & soft spoken lady. The men were complete strangers to her. I think to assume that she had known or beaten them in the past, would be a bit of a coincidence.
      She told me that this is not the first time she has experienced this, – & that she knows other nuns & clergy who have also been verbally abused in public.
      The Magdalen revelations are dreadful, Im not denying this. But we do have to be careful of a kneejerk, or a ‘lynchmob’ mentality.

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    • On that Zoe I agree, if you will read my comment I said that those men were no better than the nuns who did this to kids. I did offer what may have been a motivation – but that does not justify it. Just as nothing anyone can say justifies the behaviour of those who perpetrated this abuse or the organisation that sought to keep it hidden for so long.

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    • Shanti Om , You are another one with no objectivity or critical faculties . You can learn these skills. Go back to school !

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  • you would think reading this story it was something from another century, but no up to 1990s,,, our government, our bishops, our gardai were all aware of these stories, and not one had the balls to stand up, girls ran away and were sent right back, its a disgrace on all involved and all who knew of these carryings on, of the rapes, the beatings the deaths that took place, the children sold off to different country’s,, there is no forgiveness and should never be forgiven, and each and everyone that hid these goings on will answer to it, if not in this lifetime, they will have a very short journey downstairs and will never see the lights of heaven in which they were supposed to be trying to attain,, may they all rot in hell and know each girls pain,

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  • the awful attrocities , committed by the church , against these little children, was all supposedly done in gods name . Some of it is akin to what happened the jewish people at the hands of the nazis , during the holacaust. M ay the perpetrators of these crimes , rot in hell

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  • Bertie offered pardon to the catholic church. It’s a very well, and sickly, protected institution that has literally put the fear of God in most people over the decades.
    Richard Rodgers, I disagree with your assertion that the RC mafia aren’t flush with money. While locked in property, this church receives ridiculous donations, wills, tax amnesty charity status….and the good Sisters enslave and abuse; we know what the priests did and what the hierarchy didn’t do.
    The Statesmen have been too afraid to tackle the Church protecting their political asses.
    Divorce church and state and punish the ‘Holy Carers’ whose evil made thousands suffer.

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  • The catholic church and this state in unison in their contempt and corruption towards children, the sick, disabled and others. Something seriously wrong with modern society too to allow this carry on until 1996. Shame.

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  • It is shameful and disgusting that this was allowed to go on anywhere, at anytime in the world. Unfortunately I am finding myself less and less shocked at what the catholic church were capable of. Since the Roman emporer constantine decided he was a christian, the church has wholeheartedly been the terrorists the world. They don’t seem to mind who it is the do it to and for far too long they’ve gotten away with it.

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    • Some of these nuns are still alive and why should they live out their old age in security and comfort Name and shame those individual involved in abuse and stops their orders shielding them, take the wealth of these orders and give it in compensation to unfortunate fellow human beings who were victims of callous and habitual abuse

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    • Absolutely eimear, look at what the catholic church are doing to the Philippines at the moment, it’s like Ireland 1950! They’ve banned contraception so the poor can’t afford or get access to it. No abortion laws either just like Ireland even if the mothers life is in danger. They target the vulnerable and install their warped beliefs!

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    • @ Susanna – while your sentiment is understood – reacting in this way would cause more problems than it would solve as it would be repeating what was done but in a lesser form.

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    • Developing economies make rich pickings for organizations like the RCC. Always have and always will.

      You know something Worf, for too long individuals like you have done little else but treat victims of the RCC as little more than by- products of the institution you clearly hold in such high regard.

      Your not a troll, I would prefer it if you were, but what you are is a genetic throwback, a stain on humanity that somehow manages to successfully hide behind a wall built by a religious organization of pretend empathy and understanding.

      You need a sign on your back so people around you can truly see you for what you are.

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    • I don’t see why the nuns and others who were the perpetrators of these vile crimes should be given the dignity of anonymity. Shouldn’t the world know who could do these sick things to the very people they were charged to protect?

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    • Worf – it’s called Karma. If they couldn’t do the time then they shouldn’t do the crime. Of course abusers should be named, shamed and held to account. Are you seriously trying to suggest that they shouldn’t?

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    • @ Dawg – in response – first of all I will not attack you personally as you have done to me as that demonstrates more about you and the strength of your argument.
      I ask you to substantiate where I have ” treated victims [...] as by products”, I state very clearly that any form of abuse – physical, verbal, emotional or sexual is absolutely wrong regardless of who the perpetrator is.
      Your claim that the Church operates “pretend empathy and understanding” I cannot agree with because I know it is false and you it is true that most often the Church and priests provide care and compassion and are on call 24 hours a day – it is not possible to “pretend” on a sustained basis. It is generally unknown how much work priests actually have to do in parishes both rural and urban e.g. They often break bad news to families following accidents.
      Finally calling me a “stain on humanity” is just downright rude and shows your lack of ability to form a cogent argument.

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    • @ Shanti – of course not but I am saying that any allusion that clergy should not receive justice ie innocent until proven guilty is wrong. Unless you believe some people in society are not entitled to justice and fairness??

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    • Actually while the words against you are strong there is substance. Defending the institution that allowed this is criminal.

      We have seen recently with irish physics live taken odd air. Preys on scared people and their ignorance. Same with catholic church. Uneducated people nor knowing how earth was formed ot how the universe came to be (sure god made it) religion is made same as modern cults to control. We now understand science. God didn’t make water its one part oxogen two parts hyrogen there you go.

      Take religion out of schools. If people want to believe it fine but it should never be preached to the masses. Personally id love to move the bible into the fiction section of book shops. Teach morals nor religion

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    • Damn autocorrect :) sorry for typos

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    • Worf. Yes, I saw your argument for blanket forgiveness, “good clergy” and so on.

      “Good clergy” my hole. No amount of good deeds done can negate the fact that “good clergy” collectively followed the party line and opted for the see no evil hear no evil approach to the indiscretions of their peers.

      This left hand never knows what the right hand is doing bullshit argument may well fly with the congregation, but there is little doubt that it took the “good clergy” together with the fine upstanding members of the congregation very little effort to remain silent on the activities of the “bad clergy” who were clearly rather busy with this church sanctioned preoccupation with the creation of a generation of victims.

      There was no expression of genuine remorse. In it’s place were an army of lawyers engaged and instructed to relegate the truth to the annals of science fiction with payouts and where possible obfuscation of the most insidious kind. Where were your “good clergy” then?

      There are many out there like you. Brainwashed and blind to the misery this consistent line of defense brings with it. Your kind clearly relish the exercise inherent in such a defense and by the way, your right, mine was an attack of sorts. The use of bullshit rhetoric to nullify the systematic degradation of a generation of human beings begs no less.

      I can only speak for myself here but I despise people like you.

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    • Of course they are entitled to justice Worf. If they are guilty they should pay. The problem is that they won’t. I’m under no illusion that every member of the church is evil, but I do question why the good ones continue to identify a members of a homophobic, sexist cult with such a wide history of cruelty, slavery, torture and abuse.. Surely they can see that this is not the message of the man they call Christ?
      It’s time for another schism.. All those who support the evil actions of the Catholic Church – continue to identify as catholic. Those who don’t but still hold Jesus up as their Saviour can start another group, like Luther did..

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    • @ Dawg – first point it is appreciated that you did acknowledge your attack on me and you are very free to disagree and dispise me but your are not free to abuse me in a public forum.
      Second point – please quote where I said good deeds negate the bad. They do not. The point I made and resolutely stand over is that clergy do a lot of unseen good work.
      Third point – claiming I am brainwashed and blind to victims misery is false and you cannot glean that from any post I’ve made.
      Finally – I’m not sure how to say this any other way because it is clear you don’t want to hear it – all abuse is wrong regardless of the perpetrator, cover up/collusion is wrong and absolutely those responsible need to be brought to justice and held accountable. I can say all this as a practicing Catholic.
      PS – you might have a go at answering the questions I posed in my last response as you ignored all of them.

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    • You might answer what others ask you first worf. Hypocrite wjen you sat people dont answer Yes, I understand when you dont answer then.

      Maybe your brainwashed, maybe your not. Maybe your mentally ill, maybe your not. But anyone who is devoutly religous in this day and age when we know science and we know their crimes must be one ot the other.

      Oh your nor alone. My mother would be DEVOUTLY catholic but grew up im different time. For that lost generation we can do little for.

      We dont hate the devout we judy dispise what it stands for an organisation tgat raped, starved, tortured and murdered also stopped the development of humanity. I would totally agree on any law that forbids the public display of religous symbols

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    • God this auto correct is a nightmare!!! That made no sense I meant he should answer first before asking others. To answer

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  • shocking. what else can one say.

    Thankfully folk the catholic church in this country no longer has any control. fear and myth thats all it ever was and some of the most evil people to ever live used that church

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    • They still seem to run most of the schools in my town.

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    • @ Stewie – reality check needed – the bad always overshadows the good.

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    • Mr worf reality check needed. Children beaten to death. Raped. Starved. Tortured mentally.

      Woman reduced to slaves. Beaten and raped and locked away.

      Thats your reality check.

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    • as Iv’e said in anoher comment above, as disgusted as anyone else by the revelations.
      However, we still need to consider, that in many ways, Ireland was an impoverished harsh, & in many ways a brutal society from the 1920’s onwards.
      The are numerous abuses & injustices in our society, – & NOT all necessarily, perpetrated by the catholic church.
      The late journalist Mary Raftery, investigated the silent suffering, endured by poeple in Ireland’s psychiatric hospitals over the last few dacades.
      Many peole incarcerated & stigmatised there for their entire lifetimes.
      And this injustice had nothing to do with the catholic church. Will this scandal ever get any investigation?

      Or the tens of thousands of Irish people, forced to emigrate from rural Ireland from the ’30s onwards, & who lived lives of deprivation, & neglect in the UK. – again nothing to do with the church, -Will this ever get an inquiry?
      There are many other examples of injustice in the history of our society.
      We can’t just look at this case in isolation,

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    • You are correct – and we have more recent problems that need to be addressed too. But we cannot put this off any longer. We have a terrible problem with procrastination when it comes to sorting ourselves out. We really need to address that too – I just hope it won’t take as long as everything else!

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    • Yes Zoe and there was a time in this state when you could be incarcerated in an asylum on the recommendation of a priest . Which was also a very useful tool to silence victims of clerical abuse.

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  • This is so sad to read and nothing can be done to undo the past so whatever it takes to make the future better for all who has suffered has to be done now.

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  • This “you can’t tar them all with the same brush” argument is so deeply flawed that it beggars belief that some people are still trying to use it as a defense of the institution as a whole. The majority of the foot soldiers may well have good intentions (and I don’t think anyone on here is trying to say otherwise), but the power structure of the church allowed abuse to occur for decades, in fact centuries. They were only interested in self-preservation and maintaining their power, and if a few raped children or innocent women such as Margaret fell by the wayside, then so be it. For that alone they have given up their right to be a moral authority on any issue.
    Leset we forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iQGczIx6Sg

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  • Religion is a cursor for evil.

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    • Well, religion is fine if kept private but once it becomes organised it get corrupted and twisted. Religion needs to be totally separate from state and never taken into consideration in state matters.

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    • Religion is like a penis. It’s absolutely fine to have one and feel very strongly about it – but when you take it out and start shoving it down other people’s throats its always going to cause problems..

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  • Poor baby child and woman horrific on her Holy Ireland

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  • sick catholic church with its pious bullshit , poor woman , and her daughters , makes me angry to think this was only yesterday in the grand scheme of things . there is a angel in heaven and well someone like her deserves a red carpet for what she has been subjected to in this life , reading this story I have to say thanks that my life is good , and we as a race dont know how lucky we have it , I hope the church pays dearly for what its done to all these poor children , may this lady rest in peace

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  • Catholic Ireland, Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, take a bow.

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  • The dreadful, terrible, inhumane, cruel and horrible treatment of this victim defies comprehension. To be able to reverse this, to be able to go back in time and stop this would be wonderful. It is a story full of pain and pathos.

    I am boiling with anger towards the vicious, sadistic and foul institution of Roman Catholicism. Please tell me where the Christian love is in this. Please tell me how this could be a love of your neighbour.

    The Roman Catholic Church is a perversion, an institution which preaches Christian love but is and was capable of cruelties beyond comprehension, thoughtless, disregarding of decency, compassion or any kind of goodness.

    This is a Church which preaches one thing and practices the opposite. It is a money grubbing, power lusting, sick and perverted institution controlled by persons of a monstrous outlook. The Roman Catholic Church and its more mindless adherents, those who refuse to question and to confront its evils, are contemptible and are psychopaths clothes in clerical garb.

    The Roman Catholic Church is an empire of true evil and its mindless adherents are part of a criminal conspiracy.

    Were it not for a small minority of principled individuals, outside of the power structure, it would deserve to be proscribed.

    How the message, love and mercy of Jesus have been corrupted and perverted. The existence of the Roman Catholic Church in its present form is a form of true blasphemy. Its mindless adherents are as far removed from Christianity as it is possible to be.

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    • Your comment is so hate filled it is worrying. It also comes across as you have a major issue with the Church.
      While absolutely any form of abuse in any walk of life is wrong; the claims you make about the present day Church are false and I very much doubt you can back your claims up.
      Such rants also take the focus off the victims and onto you which is wrong.

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    • @ Lieutenant Worf, there is a difference between us. You don’t recognise or accept the true turpitude of what happened and still happens. I judge the Roman Catholic Church by its actions. Devout Roman Catholics are imbued with a sense of devotion to their Church, right or wrong. You hear no evil, see no evil and therefore there is no will to reform. You are living proof of the sickness of the RCC.

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    • Sadly Peter is bitter and twisted and his comments are barbed and malicious with little basis in rationality and objectivity. That nun damaged you and inflicted pain but why let it colour your life ? Pain is inevitable and cannot be avoided but misery is entirely optional!

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    • @ Anthony Hesketh, it has to do with reality.

      Margaret was abused through her shortened life in appalling circumstances.

      Thousands of children, likely vastly more, have been raped by clerics, many young women were incarcerated and subjected to penal servitude, families were bullied, children were taken off their families and many young lives were blighted. Homosexuals have been abused, condoms were prohibited as a means of inhibiting the spread of AIDS. Women are not permitted to be priests for no sensible or rational reason and going back further in time the Spanish Inquisition killed and tortured over three centuries. The Roman Catholic Church was complicit in the mass murder of Jews and has fostered anti semitism.

      The Roman Catholic Church assisted in the formation of the mafia in Italy and has an intricate web of corruption with right wing groups.

      The Roman Catholic Church terrorised generations in Ireland. Angela’s Ashes expressed an essential truth.

      There is so much more that can be written in an indictment of the Roman Catholic Church but the deniers and the defenders just cast these matters aside.

      Personal experience, observation, reading of the Ryan and Murphy Reports, the reports of criminal trials against a small minority of clerical perpetrators and the experiences recounted by legions of victims are a valid and justified basis for forming rational conclusions about an organisation. There are other evils in the world apart from Roman Catholicism but the unique feature of the Roman Catholic Church is that it claims a moral status superior to all else but in its actual practices it behaves immensely evil.

      Look at Cardinal Brady’s swearing of complainants to secrecy. Look at what the Residential Institutions have done.

      Look at the experiences of countless people who were cruelly punished in schools and look at the trenchant criticisms expressed in many of the posts. If the Roman Catholic Church were to be such a paragon of virtue and good, why would it invite such criticism?

      By the actions of the Roman Catholic Church we know it.

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    • Your anger and hurt at that nun’s behaviour towards you Mr Richardson has radically effected your objectivity . It doesn’t have to colour your whole life. Go for therapy .I mean it and I m not being flippant

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    • @ Anthony Hesketh, chuckling. I am unconvinced that you are qualified or experienced to recommend therapy or that based on an excahange of posts that you have any basis for so recommending. I note your personally abusive remarks directed towards others and therefore despite your protestation that you are not bein flippant, you certainly are being.

      It greatly amuses me that you refer me to therapy, the secular option. As a die hard defender of Roman Catholicism, I would have expected a recommendation or referral to that special kind of religious therapy known as the confessional.

      As an interesting exercise, I analysed your various posts to 17 articles on the Journal. I note that you never addresses the substance of points made but counter attack, usually abusively so and without any attempt at serious ansd substantive engagement. I note some pretty bad errors of expression, confusing “inter” for “intra” and a striking level of cognitive dissonance in your posts.

      It is interesting to observe the marked degree of extremely fundamentalist view point that you express and it is curious that you don’t seek to advocate, persuade, reason but just indulge in a student debating style of point scoring.

      I will admire the way in which you reflect in your attitude, style and form of expression the more obdurate mentality of the hard line elements in the Roman Catholic Church. You are truly representative of the Roman Catholic Church in a way that you will never appreciate.

      Apart from the extreme level of cognitive dissonance displayed in your posts, your posts also seem devoid of any wisdom, generosity of spirit or that quality of charity which is supposed to be the hallmark of a sincere and enlightened Christian.

      You deserve credit for not contesting a single one of my criticisms of the Roman Catholic Church. You attack me but in doing so you make no attempt in a substantive way to deny the validity of my criticisms of the institution of the Roman Catholic Church. It is an evil Church inhabited by evil people but, according to the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church it supposedly has a divinely conferred special and exclusive monopoly on religious truth.

      You play he man but overlook playing the ball.

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    • It is kind of you to identify me so strongly with the Catholic Church , Peter. I am of course greatly blessed by being a member of that esteemed institution.Alas I am a grave sinner in its eyes but nevertheless I am proud to claim membership of the only true international and multicultural society. Yes it has its faults and failings but they are outnumbered by the many great people who are counted amongst its members who have done/are doing marvellous work throughout the world. If I was a better catholic , I would be more charitable towards my foes but unfortunately I am a bad sinner. I know however that I am in need of redemption and therefore I stay in the only place where I can be assured of god’s love and forgiveness . On a religious note ,I will pray for you my dear foe that God will take away your anger and hostility towards his church and make you whole again. I pray also that he may smite that evil bitch nun who treated you harshly. She has alot to answer for !

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    • @ Anthony Hesketh, I have no reason to dispute your admission that you are a sinner or unworthy and, in fairness, you are a truly edifying example of the Roman Catholic Church which you defend with such vigor.

      I hold not the slightest rancour or ill will towards the nun, a Reverend Mother. She was a creature of her time, believed that left handedness was a sign of the devil and was determined to save me. It may have been the case that she did not intend to fracture my hand, it was a child’s hand and at least other left handers were also abused. Indeed, she offered me cake once and her sin, if you call it a sin, is that she was captured by the dogma of her Church.

      Life teaches us and most experiences can be turned to good account. The upside of my experience is that it has thought me that outsiders, those who are different, those who do not follow the same drum as others are at risk from any authoritarian and fascist organisation. A small experience has taught me more identification with those who have been much, much worse treated than I was in degree and nature. I gave all clergy a very wide berth and, not being an orphan or vulnerable, I was never abused again.

      The important point is not to allow a fanatical defence of any institution blind one to the capacity of all powerful institutions for great evil. Large and powerful institutions have the potential to magnify individual evil and to do severe harm to many victims. The Roman Catholic is the same as all other powerful institutions but it causes resentment and hatred because it pretends to purity and decency, when the truth is the opposite.

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  • This story is truly horrifying.
    I am sick to think that this was still occurring in my Dublin when I was a boy and young man. I must have walked past that place countless times, completely ignorant of the sadism being perpetrated inside.

    Like others I had thought these horrors to be relics of the 50′s and 60′s.

    Will this finally wake people up from their religous stupor and force the government to divorce church from state? Sadly I doubt it.

    I for one will remember this at the next election. It is more important than prommissory notes or the IMF. We need to see action on this now in education, health and every other area where the church has its tentacles.

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  • Well stated. The foundress of the Good Shepherd Sisters stated “One person is more precious than the whole world”. The ‘good’ priests and nuns knew well what was happening. The Sisters of ‘Mercy’ had the audacity to state they were ‘demonised’ when that particular order had to apologise several times because their first apology was not sincere. An apology has never extended to the women incarcerated in the Magdalen Laundries.

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  • This is the Catholic church that wants to protect the unborn. Time for the bishops to have a good look at themselves and stop trying to bully the people of this country ino their twisted way of thinking. A hundered years on from the lockout of 1913 when the same church abandoned the starving workers of Dublin nothing has changed.

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    • They only care about life before we’re born, after that people are just viewed as new recruits to their cult, and are taught to spend their entire lives in guilt and atoning for sin, basically you are being prepped for death as soon as you are baptised.

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    • I am concerned that tthe ‘Magdalen’ revelations over the next few days, will be used as ‘leverage’ for the Pro Choice view, especially in the media. The two stories will become intertwined.
      Abortion is an important issue in our society, that needs to be discussed separately, on ‘its own merits’. The Magdalen report may further cloud, & impact upon this debate.
      Many people, including myself, are ‘Pro Life’, for reasons other than catholic teaching.

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    • The Irish people were abandoned by the church during the famine as well
      .

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    • Anne, just regarding your comment, – the Irish people were abandoned by the church during the famine as well.
      Totally untrue.
      Your remark is a generalisation. For centuries during times of hardship & suffering throughouit Irish history, the catholic faith has been one of the few things, that sustained Irish people,

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    • Zoe, people who are pro-life aren’t going to become pro-choice after Tuesday. Also, recent Sunday Times poll revealed 59% were in favour of abortion under the terms of the X-case, when suicide is removed, that percentage goes up to 87% where the mothers life is at risk, there will be abortion in Ireland, I would get used to the idea to avoid disappointment.

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    • Gaius, fully aware of the statistics, & I’m realistic enough to acknowledge them. I know its an ‘uphill struggle’ all the way, for anyone who is ‘pro life’ in Ireland at the moment. I accept the reality of that. The Magdalen report is due on Tuesday, & later this week the Dail will be debating the upcoming abortion Legislation.
      But the two events are so close, that I am concerned that the two isues will become intertwined, in the public debate.
      Abortion deserves a very clear, rational & objective discussion, & the magdalen report may ‘muddy the waters’ in this. It’s only human that people are angry about this report, but anger or emotion will not help in the abortion debate.

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    • Well Zoe, if you don’t want the Magdalene report ‘muddying the waters’ of the abortion debate, I would recommend you start by not trying to begin a discussion on abortion on an article that has nothing to do with abortion, and stop trying to defend the indefensible, it’s disrespectful to the victims of these institutions.

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  • Sadly slavery is 3 times higher now than it was at its highest peak all them years ago.

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  • This poor lady , is just like thousands of others brutally enslaved and imprisoned, by a catholic church , who grew stonger on the backs of others pain . It was, and still remains a disgrace, that no one in power in the catholic church has been prosecuted , for the flagrant cover ups, and disregard for the rights of these poor missfortunte children

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    • Richard the Catholic Church gets stronger when you get married in the catholic church have you baby baptised catholic be complicit in them making their communion and confirmation. Ok your child won’t be abused but you’re a card carrying member of organisation that will abuse victims in the third world

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  • How many of these women are left alive to receive compensation. This government and all the ones before them have buried this. I watched a documentary about two US women who tried in vain to get documentation from the nuns in one of the Cork institutions about their mothers. If this is buried as I suspect it will be, it is proof positive that there is no justice on this island. I was also wondering why Mr McAleese recently resigned from the senate. Maybe as an outsider he will be less prone to intervention from Kenny and his corrupt cronies. I truly hope that those nuns and those controlling them are imprisoned for a very long time. Lets wait and see.

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    • It’s not about money, it is about justice. These four orders, the church and the state need to apologise. In another comment I mentioned how a Good Shepherd Sister told me to my face “we imprisoned nobody”. Total denial. As calm as could be she went back to washing her car. She showed no emotion and certainly no remorse. It was like speaking to a Nazi camp guard.

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    • How many politicians in this government were around when these launderies were still operatiing and turned a blind eye, we know they will not go on trial in Ireland. The report into the Magdalene Launderies was ordered by the United Nations Committee Against Torture. The perpetrators should stand trial in the Hague for crimes against humanity just like war criminals. The state and church declared war against innocent women and children.

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  • Shame on t lot of them it makes my blood boil wen I think of t Catholic Church and how they where able 2 get away wit it

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  • All behind you for justice. May the ignorance and evil of these people not go unlearned for everyone a lesson. How I abhor that church and it’s hypocratic preaching

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  • Well done to all for getting #justiceformagdalenesNOW trending. For those still doubting State involvement, I see the photograph of the women from Gloucester Street/Sean MacDermott Street Laundry has been posted. Women clearly being flanked on each side by the Gardai/Police. They were not free women.

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  • The Catholic church should be lawfully become a ‘proscribed’ organization… It has openly indulged itself in the most heinous of crimes for the best part of a century in this country and received State protection for doing so…. Religious liberty for individuals, yes, but they should not be given any benefits or legal rights as an organization, remove their right to lobby the Government, their right to own property. No institution which involves itself in slaving and institutional rape should have any recognition, let alone funding from any Government
    I feel utterly sickened to call myself Irish.

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  • Your concern should be in getting justice for the women and their families. For example I had a Good Shepherd Sister state “we imprisoned nobody”. This was said yards away from a Magdalene Laundry site. Their foundress stated “One person is of more value than a world”. How is enslaving women reconciled with that statement? The Laundries made a good profit for the orders. It’s an open debate to ask if all these orders were interested in is money.They held themselves up as moral guides but in reality were hypocrites. People are entitled to be angry. We need justice for the women incarcerated.

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  • You’d be forgiven for confusing this story with a Satanic cult.

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    • @ Sean Patrick, the story of Margaret and others truly has a Satanically evil quality.the evil of the Roman Catholic Church is beyond comprehension.

      Its defenders seek to minimise its wrongs because, as members of the Roman Catholic Church, they owe an absolute duty of loyalty to their Church, the one true faith, which is supposedly incapable of wrong.

      It is no more and no less than my religion right or wrong, regardless of consequence, regardless of the victims, regardless of the true quality of the evil committed and regardless of lives destroyed, such as Margaret’s short and deprived life, robbed of what have could have been. Not to recognise that tragedy and not to accept the full blame for this tragedy is the triumph of zealotry over love and justice.

      The RCC condemns itself by its own evil actions.

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    • Sean … not far wrong. Two of my brothers were priests … now both left. I used to start all conversations with them … “pass me another alter-boy … this one’s split … battered and broken”. The collar is a swastika to me and many survivors. As I said above … arrest the lot of them and bring them to justice …

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    • Oh sorry, silly me, it is a satanic cult!

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  • How did the young girls end up in these places? Was it not their own families who looked to the church to cover it up! How brainwashed we’re they! Blind faith.

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  • Could Judas with a hand picked band of another 11 done worse than Peter and the Popes?

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  • So sad my heart goes out to you all Thank you for telling your story

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  • Horrendous to think this went on for so long .
    The Catholic church is cabal of child abusers , rapists and slave traders! The apologists here saying “but what about the good priests”?? Should be ashamed because there are none! For they stayed quiet while this went on and are still staying quiet and are therefore complicit in the churches crimes..
    As an organisation the Catholic church is one of the most unchristian ones around when one considers the values Christianity is supposed to be based on..

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  • Margaret s story is so sad it would make stones weep !!!!! My God ….

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  • I do not want to distract attention from the suffering of the Magdalenes but there are some comments above about Catholic missionaries in Africa living in luxury which are, in my experience, simply wrong. I worked as a layman alongside Irish Catholic missionaries in East Africa in the 1970’s. They lived very simple lives, often in remote parishes, and did a great deal of good work with hospitals, schools, clinics, agricultural and water development, as an expression of their Christian beliefs. Yes, they also taught those beliefs. I went back to Africa a few years ago and found some of the same missionaries still living and working there 40 years on, eating simple food and living in basic accommodation in a desert environment which was a daily challenge. The same is true of medical missionary sisters I met, many of whom are now engaged with HIV sufferers and sex workers in a compassionate way.
    I am not saying that my experience is universally true, just that it was true of all of the several dozen Irish missionaries whom I met and worked with.
    I apologise for taking the comments away from the Magdalenes but would say that all those who used those laundries are complicit in their abuse and suffering.

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  • There was at least one Presbyterian Magdalen Laundry in the North. There was something on the news a few years ago about graves of victims. I think we do need to remember that protestant as well as catholic ‘charities’ abused those in their power. Victims of the Bethany homes in Dublin were never recognised or compensated. It is the sheer number of children and women incarcerated in Ireland that is so exceptional. Being non-catholic wasn’t necessarily a protection.

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  • Shanti,
    I respect what your father’s partner has told you but, speaking only from my own experience, I can tell you that even when I went back a few years ago that the most luxurious vehicle on the mission was a Toyota HiLux, a Taliban Taxi with 140, 000 km on the clock.
    When reading the comment about collection plates, I remembered the funerals of my youth where the amount put in the collection was read out family by family and was meant to reflect on the standing of the deceased. Thank goodness those days are gone.
    There is progress being made in the relationship between the people and the priests even though there is still a long way to go
    Regards
    Patrick

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    • Bridge Street
      John Sullivan 10 shillings
      Joe Dunne 10 shillings
      Tom Higgins. 1 shilling. …… pause
      Mick Dunne. 10 shillings
      John Egan. 10 shillings
      James Kelly. 2 pounds. ….. pause

      Main Street
      Joe Power. 10 shillings

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  • The horrendous treatment of this unfortunate victim Margaret is a lesson to us all. It poses the question are women today by any means better off? Instead of leaving poor children in the hands of ignorant clergy our government now dump them with the HSE which in the past decade alone 230 or so children have died, our state still hasn’t learnt anything from past blunders. Also the other change in our culture is when a young woman falls pregnant we leave them at the mercy of the abortion industry so no adoptees live to seek justice for their mother. Replacing Rome rule it is Brussels.

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    • Yes and there was no problem wheeling nazi war criminals into court. Good nutrition and lack of stress will ensure these a plenty of these evil bitches still alive and lucid.

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    • No one is forcing anyone to have abortions Marion.. Mind you – had they been available you can bet your sweet ass any woman who fell pregnant by a priest would have been made have one..
      And referring to a procedure which allows women full bodily autonomy as an “industry” just shows how brainwashed by the same cult you are..

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  • Shame on Ireland for abdicating its responsibilities for vulnerable people to an institution and failing to ensure good enough standards. The state should pay massive compensation and stop trying to offload the blame on others

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  • this story is so sad im so sad for margaret

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  • I remember visiting a friend in a classy guest house type of home for unmarried Mothers run y Nuns and another friend who was housed in a non denominational guest house. so if you had money and were educated it gave you a chance to not end up with the Magies. So unfair
    People must stand up to the Church and the State,
    regards Patricia

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  • thank you Marlon Major your comments are kind intelligent and well thought out. I think the Irish have indeed forgotten how to fight for themselves and have thrown away the love and wisdom of those men and women of 1916 and instead listen to the narrow minds of revisionists who seem so popular today but really only peddle in self hate and who take the shilling of those who yearn for their very own OBE!

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  • Many of the comments are justifiable in their anger.
    But I am concerned that some of the comments have moved, from a justifiable & understandable anger, – into the territory of ‘incitement to hatred’

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    • If you call wishing justice for those who were so cruelly tortured, by those who held themselves up as the moral authority (and continue to assert themselves as such to this day) “incitement to hatred” then perhaps, yes..

      Please bear in mind that these men and women held themselves up on a pedestal. They were supposed to be gods representatives in the community. They were here to teach us about morals.. That’s what makes their betrayal all the worse, and perhaps what fuels the (what I feel would be justified) anger.

      For the record, I work with the elderly. I’ve worked with nuns, ex nuns, and victims. I wouldn’t call any of them individually evil, the ones who remained as nuns I would call brainwashed. They had the option to stop it, and whether it was fear that moved them to continue or blind righteousness I cannot say.

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    • @ Zoe – this always happens when the Catholic Church is even loosely connected to a news article.
      People complain about abuse ( and rightly so) but often abuse and degrade Catholics for being Catholics (see above).

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    • @ Lieutenant. I agree, – there is a very fine line between justifiable anger, and where that can move into hatred. Some of the comments have moved from anger at clergy, toward hatred of ”catholics” in general.
      Very easy for that to happen. and for innocent people to be attacked or verbally abused, – thats not right either.

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    • I would like to state for the record that I do not condone abusing them. I said that I could understand the reasons for anger and how that is justifiable.
      What I cannot understand is why people seek to defend these despicable acts. I can appreciate there is a religious belief there, but if that is based on the bible then I am left even more baffled as to why. Jesus himself would have ousted the Vatican cronies by now. The good men and women of the church could lead the way in a better expression of their faith – you could say that evil has poisoned the temple and needs to be turned away from.
      But instead they stay.. It seems almost like condoning these actions, submitting to an authority who has shown that they do not follow the path of their Christ..

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    • @ Worf, the Catholic Church loosely connected to these scandals! Are you serious?

      This demonstrates your denial and lame attempt to dissociate the Roman Catholic Church from its depredations. We should properly hate what has happened, we should hate the perpetrators and we should hate the institution which has fostered these abuses. The problem is that those who are unable to recognise evil cannot start to address it. It is the moral blindness and the mental reservations of the Roman Catholic Church which prevents it from feeling true contrition and starting on real reform.

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    • @ Peter – it is evident you have not read my comment fully or followed my comments in the thread.
      I did not state the the Church is loosely connected to THIS article but to A news article – any time there is an article on the Journal even mentioning the Catholic Church people like yourself automatically make comments like you do attacking the whole Church and its members because of the appalling (Note again clearly – appalling) actions of some of the clergy.
      Your comment is an excellent example of what I mean.

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    • @ Worf, why refer to other articles when we are referring to this article? You seek to distort and to distract.

      I agree with you that what happened was appalling but I say that the RCC which fostered and promoted these appalling actions is likewise appalling.

      As a good Catholic you are compelled to defend your Church but the actions of your Church speak for themselves and are indefensible.

      Your Church preaches Christian love. Its action are a perversion of Christian love.

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  • How was Margaret a mother and nearly grandmother if she was in an institution all her life?

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  • What a shocking writer- for gids sake give us the baxkground to the story.WHERE DID THIS HAPPEN?

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  • I would not defend these Magdalen Laundries for a moment but there is a certain collective amnesia at work in the Irish psyche. They reflected accurately the reactionary social consensus of the time and the social control exercised by the Church and State with which most people including the educational system, courts, Gardai and much else were happy to collude. It may suit now to blame the “State” as something removed from the population but in fact the vast majority of the Irish people colluded and agreed with the repressive social system of the time and were happy for people who disagreed with the thought control to emigrate and to dump our “problems” abroad.

    Ireland was not a prison but the social consensus made it so and the Church and States actions and control reflected this reality.

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