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Dublin: 15 °C Wednesday 19 June, 2013

Only nine per cent of Irish Travellers are over 50

For the first time, a study on the consequences of being party of a disadvantaged group has been carried out.

Image from a Traveller halting site in 1988
Image from a Traveller halting site in 1988
Image: Eamonn Farrell/Photocall Ireland

A NEW STUDY by the ESRI has examined the consequences of belonging to certain disadvantaged groups, such as the Traveller community in Ireland.

Researchers examining Census 2006 data discovered the life expectancy of Travellers is much lower than other groups, with only 9 per cent of its population aged over 50. That compares to 28 per cent of white Irish adults being over 50-years-old.

Authors of the report said the lower life expectancy arises from “difficult living circumstances”. In the five different areas of disadvantage examined – low levels of education, being outside the labour market, unemployment, lower manual social class and lack of access to a car – the report found some “very stark” differences between Travellers and other groups.

There are “severe problems” in acquiring basic levels of education for Travellers, with more than eight in 10 in the 25-44 age group with no complete second-level schooling.

They also face a much higher unemployment rate and are more likely to be found in the lower, manual social class. Both of these factors translate into poorer living circumstances.

Contrary to perceptions, Travellers are also much less likely than other white Irish adults to have access to a car.

The equality analysis of the 2006 Census looked at the risk of disadvantage with the nine grounds on the basis of which unequal treatment is prohibited in Ireland. Those are gender, marital status, family status, sexual orientation, religion, age, disability, race and membership of the Traveller community.

The study was carried out by the ESRI on behalf of the Equality Authority.

Despite initial presumptions, researchers found that being a member of two such groups (for example, a woman with a disability) does not always result in “double disadvantage” or a worse outcome.

In general, married fathers and mothers are a relatively advantaged group in terms of labour market and living standards. However, married mothers are much less likely to have paid employment but this could be explained by preference and not constraints.

Older single men aged 45 and 64 are a particularly disadvantaged group as they are more likely than their married counterparts to have low levels of education, be outside the labour market and be unemployed. They are also more likely to lack access to a car.

In terms of ethnic group, African adults – particularly in the younger age group – are most disadvantaged when looking at risks of unemployment or being in the lower manual social class.

As the study was carried out to direct policy issues, the authors noted that educational disadvantage plays an important part in accounting for later outcomes associated with the labour market and living standards.

Download the full report here>

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Comments (116 Comments)

  • @ Brian
    Where was a I mouthing off about travellers?

    FYI – I’ve lived amongst travellers all my life. In fact you could say where I reside I’m surrounded by them!!! I’ve seen there culture first hand.

    In fact a friend of mine was threatened with a hammer and robbed by two of them yesterday.

    Many years ago a traveller who I went to school with and who’s family home I can see from my front window murdered his own brother at that same home.

    Another fella down the road was part of a group of travellers who robbed & murdered 3 elderly people in the area a number of years ago also.

    Another fella who was reared down the road from me did prison time for rape. He was also a noted burglar while he lived in the area too.

    Currently we have a regular Garda presence in the area to monitor an ongoing feud with one particular family.

    About three weeks ago two rival groups of travellers produced slash hooks and hurls at a local confirmation ceremony. It made the national papers that one.

    That’s just a small taste.

    I’ve seen little evidence of a language, music, mythology(?) etc….that you speak off.

    All I’ve seen is a people with a sense of entitlement who grab everything they can and contribute nothing to society.

    I am not prejudice. I am not a racist. This is just my experience.

    Reply
    • Well said

      Reply
    • You could easily use your own anecdotes to describe someone living in rough suburban or inner city areas of any urban area. As for a people who grab everything – well, if we in the settled community are going to continually deny them the same right to housing, employment and other rights that we enjoy, why wouldn’t they? I don’t agree with what many in the Travelling Community do (such as the propensity for many of them to turn to violence and illegal activities) – but asking society to continue to treat Travellers in such a way that they can see no alternative is not the answer.

      Reply
  • Ciaro 23/03/12 #

    How many travellers would actually complete census forms? This report is meaningless.

    Reply
  • Don’t tar all travellers with same brush but be sure not to let any travellers tar your driveway.

    Reply
  • Obviously they need more social welfare and more local authority housing. Perhaps the third level should offer interested travellers diplomas and degrees in antiques dealing, carpet retailing and home maintenance for the elderly.

    Reply
  • Is there anybody reading this thread who can explain to me how a huge amount of travellers with no apparent source of income other than social welfare can afford to drive jeep and vans which are no more than 2 years old and quite a few brand new ones too, I’d be really interested in hearing from any of the bleeding hearts club members that can explain this to the readers??

    Reply
  • now that is the sort of fact that should be on the news

    Reply
  • I would like to see the Travellers prosper, I really would. I would love to see the positive aspects of Traveller culture, such as music and sport, becoming more common among Travellers themselves. More positive role models also, like Willie “Big Bang” Casey, are needed among the community.

    However, it seems that other elements of their ‘culture’ hold them back.

    Travellers seem to marry their cousins quite a lot-hence the high level of disabilities and general impact on health, as the article above states.

    There also seems to be a culture of refusal to partake in education. Financial barriers no longer exist as there is specialist funding for this particular issue. Participation among Travellers in education needs to rise dramatically in order for their life and wellbeing to improve. I am sure that the high level of crime among Travellers would decrease also, and in turn, the widespread perception of them as a community would benefit also.

    Reply
    • Racism is also endemic in the institutions that are supposed to provide the facilities.. By law, such as county councils. Ive had my house burgled by travellers , my work also brings me into contact with them and I’ve found them ok. If we were reading the same comments made here about American blacks we’d be open to criticism. To be frank I think the journal is threading a thin line by allowing comments here that invite racial hatred. We all know the negative traveler stereotype what we need is a way of addressing the health , welfare and educational needs if travellers in an intelligent way. By the looks of the people here , I think they prefer something closer to Hitlers final solution .

      Reply
  • “Contrary to perceptions, Travellers are also much less likely than other white Irish adults to have access to a car.” Might that be due to the fact that the majority would rather drive high spec SUVs?

    Reply
  • Emmm…..why? They are a few people who choose to wander around the place and contribute nothing to society, as it is their right to do so. In what way is that ethic?

    Reply
    • Sorry, Ethnic. And the last comment was in reply to Paul’s original one.

      Reply
    • Ronan, please stop acting like an uneducated racist and learn something about Travellers. They have their own music, their own literature, their own mythology, their own burial rituals (although mostly extinguished by the Settled Community), their own language, etc. Reading an article or two in The Sun and only listening to the opinions of other uneducated people does not make you an authority on ethnicity. You probably don’t even know the difference between ethnicity, race, nationality and citizenship.

      Reply
    • A racist? Really? What race do you infer that I am insulting?

      Reply
    • And also, I worked with the travelling community before, so off you pop now Brian and don’t make assumptions about me or my choice of newspaper, and keep up the good work. I’m sure they will rally around to support you like people rallied around the Dale Farm fiasco. How come they never seem to support any other hard done by people?

      Reply
    • Brian, is your broadband down? Or are you working hard on your junior cert revision, seeing as you brought education into it? Which is fine if you are, but if you are over twenty, maybe you should consider re education. Pony drawn round topped caravans and campfires surrounded by chuckling old folk reminiscing on the romantic good old days don’t seem to be around these days.

      Reply
    • First of all, race is a very ambiguous term. Race has been used applied en masse to people of a particular skin colour (e.g. Mongoloids, Caucasians, Negroids, etc.). However, there are also narrower definitions, including subsets of colour, such as the practices applied by Nazi Germany, where race was used to define subsets of “Whites”, including Semites, Aryans, etc. We have instances of historical figures speaking about the “Irish Race” – a further subset of peoples. As you can see, the concept of race is dependent on the person who uses it. Racism as a term, however, has an official definition which includes any “distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.” As you can see, the concept of ethnicity is included in this definition. An ethnic group is one whose members identify with each other through a common heritage, often consisting of a common culture, a common language or languages, common ancestry, common folklore, etc. The Travelling Community of Ireland fits the very definition of an ethnic group, and is recognised as an ethnic group in the United Kingdom and the United States of America. In fact, the only country which doesn’t recognise Travellers as an ethnic group is the very country they are from.

      Just to clarify, I never stated you were racist. What I did state was that you were acting like one. You lumped all Travellers into the one group and said that they “contribute nothing to society”. This statement is completely covered in the definition of racism. How about Robert Barker (1739–1806) the painter who coined the term “panorama”, Margaret Barry (1917–1989) the singer, John Doherty (1900-1980) the fiddler, etc.? Are you really telling me they contributed nothing to society?

      “Pony drawn round topped caravans and campfires surrounded by chuckling old folk reminiscing on the romantic good old days don’t seem to be around these days.” No, Ronan, those days are gone. But then, would you define someone of Irish ethnicity as someone who attains his/her schooling in hedgeschools, adheres strictly to Roman Catholicism with mass said in Latin, who lives in mud huts with thatch roofs and no windows, struggling to survive on potatoes and typically a speaker of Irish Gaelic? No, you wouldn’t, because times change. The pony drawn round topped caravans have been replaced with modern luxurious caravans. The campfires have been replaced with tar barrels. As for the old folk reminiscing on the good old days – well, actually, they are still there. Pop up to Sligo some day and you’ll see them on Connaughton Hill where they still speak Sheldru.

      Reply
    • I see Wikipedia is still working…

      Reply
    • Brian, while your ability to type in “Travellers” in to Wikipedia is remarkable, and your copy and pasting skills are commendable, you still didn’t answer my original question without referring to Wikipedia. All I asked was, in your own language, and in your own opinion, what race do you think I am insulting? And by the way, I have no intention of insulting any “race”.

      Reply
    • Wander around our estates…..

      Reply
    • Actually Ronan, my definition of ethnicity comes from Seidner (1982). The definition of racism comes from Part I Article 1 of the United Nations International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination. Yes I did use Wikipedia to identify certain members of the Traveller community, but then as far as I was aware research and education are all part and parcel of advancing one’s own knowledge bank. I didn’t realise the only way to have an opinion on a certain topic was to ignore those who have studied, researched and written about that particular topic.

      Regarding your “what race do you think I am insulting” – well I never said you were insulting any race. What I did say is that your comment made you appear like a racist. As I have outlined to time and again (but you appear not to be listening at all, instead preferring to bang the same empty drum over and over again), a racist is not someone who insults, denigrates, or otherwise treats as unequal, a different race. A racist is someone who insults, denigrates, etc. members of a community based on a number of factors, including, but not limited to, ethnicity, which, as I have shown you, is included in the definition of racism as defined by the United Nations.

      Reply
    • I’d be very interested to learn more about the Travellers’ language. Would Brían have a link to references?

      Reply
    • @ Bocque – yes I would actually. You can try this link to the Long Now Foundation where you can read online or download a PDF of the material or you can try the Traveller’s Rest by Richard J. Waters, an American descendant of Irish Travellers who has documented and compiled the speech of the Irish Travelling Community from c. 1875. Travellers actually use three languages – Shelta (a complete language based on Irish, English and Romani), the Cant (a heavily Anglicised version of Shelta) and English.

      Reply
    • Brian, I’m afraid you did call me a racist, without any grounds, and yet again, you have failed to pint out what race you think I am insulting.

      Reply
    • No Ronan I didn’t call you a racist. You say I’m so great at cutting and pasting – well here’s a cut and paste for you. “Ronan, please stop acting like an uneducated racist and learn something about Travellers. ” Now please indicate in that sentence where I definitively said you were racist. I clearly said you were acting like an uneducated racist. That is not at all the same as being a racist.

      As for your comment “you have failed to pint out what race you think I am insulting”. Dear God, how many times do I have to spell it out to you? Are you really going to keep chewing that bone? Do you have nothing better to argue about? Do you really think that by continuing to highlight your own ignorance of the definition of “race” that you’re going to get one up on me. I have told you what my understanding of race is backed up by sources, and have asked you to tell me your understanding of race which you have failed to do. I have shown you the evidence – you have not looked. I have given my opinion – you have not listened. You lie about what I write. You insult the character and maturity of those with different views to you as you did with both myself and Ciaran. There really is no point in discussing a topic such as this with someone like you. You have your views and you do not want to know what the views are of the other side.

      Reply
    • And as further evidence to back up my theory on “race” and “racism”, you should perhaps read this report commissioned by the OSCE and the Council of Europe and published by the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance. If you couldn’t be bothered reading it I’ll “cut and paste” the relevant sections for you:

      “‘racism’ shall mean the belief that a ground such as ‘race’, colour, language, religion, nationality or national or ethnic origin justifies contempt for a person or a group of persons, or the notion of superiority of a person or a group of persons.”

      and yet in the very next paragraph it also states:

      “all human beings belong to the same species and ECRI thereby rejects theories based on the existence of different ‘races’.”

      Reply
  • how can education be an issue when mist travellers go to school the same as the rest of us and get extra help from resource teachers etc. I never got extra help with my read or spelling I school yet I remember all the traveller kids would get taken aside individually every day for extra help. that was my personal experience but I’m.sure that the situation was repeated up and down the country. its how you are educated at home by your parents that has the biggest influence. if your parents don’t care how you do in school then why should you. sorry for ranting but it makes me so.angry when people cite lack of education as a disadvantage when it is fact they are given the same opportunities as the rest of us.

    Reply
  • steeping your hands in petrol to harden them up isn’t going to help much.

    Reply
  • If anyone wants to know what travellers are really like have a conversation with a guard, security guard in retail, state solictor, social welfare worker or a district court judge to name a few.

    Reply
    • I was going to do exactly that the other night. I was having a few pints with some guards, security officers and social workers. Then this bunch of district court judges came into the pub, full of drink and wrecked the place. Bunch of pr**ks the lot of em.

      Reply
  • Have yet to meet a traveller who paid income tax. Except when it’s CAB doing the asking…

    Reply
  • Had to put the run on 2 of them today looking to rob scrap out the back of our warehouse today…………again

    Reply
  • I would like to know where the traveller culture originated. The underlying experience of the non traveller (settled?) community from the interaction they have with travelers is very negative. The perception is of an inferior lifestyle which doesn’t contribute to society and contains a large number of unsatisfactory attributes including treatment of women, aggression, anti social behavior, little productive financial contribution, based on social welfare, criminality, and off a group of people who alienate themselves from society and can’t even get on in each others company. Are these stereotypes or are they the real characteristics of traveller life. Unfortunately we are not allowed address these items as to even mention them is to be termed a racist.

    Reply
  • @Brian. That Traveller’s Rest reference is fascinating. Many of the Shelta words appear to be Irish words which are either reversed, have added consonants or have consonants replaced in a systematic way. The author’s phonetic system is a bit confusing but he can be forgiven for that since he’s American. The pronunciation appears to be Donegal Irish, but I could be wrong and obviously the spelling is his own.

    I took some examples from the site. I’ll give the English word first, then the Shelta followed by the Irish. I’m afraid this might not mean much to people who don’t know the Irish language, so apologies for that.

    Welcome. Graaltcha Fáilte.
    Week. Grakhton. Seachtain.
    Donkey. Grasal. Asal.
    Englishman Grasano Sasanach
    Open Groskal Oscail
    Hat Gratha Hata
    Summer Graura Samhradh
    Luck Graw Ádh
    Able Grawbalta Ábalta
    Satisfied Grawsta Sásta
    Face Graydan Éadan
    Hay Grayer Féir
    Tooth Graykhol Fiacal
    Chapel Graypul Séipéil
    Silk Gree-ed Síod
    Weather Grimsher Aimsir
    Snow Grokhta Sneachta
    Apple Groola úlla
    Awaken Grooskal Muscail
    Cup Grupawn Cupán

    There also seems to be quite an amount of word reversal.

    Girl Lackeen Cailiín
    Tomorrow Akharam Amárach
    Outside Akhim Amuigh
    Half chal Leath
    Kiss Gawp Póg
    Young person Gawthena Duine óg
    Son Kam Mac
    Corner Look Cúl
    Hole Lub Poll
    Blind Lud Dall
    Lose Lyag Caill
    Fool Mugathawn Amadán
    Spoon Noospog Spúnóg
    Purse Ruspawn Sparán

    Apart from that, a very large proportion of the words are straightforward Irish.

    The references seem to concentrate on lexicon. I haven’t been able to locate much about grammatical structure.

    Reply
  • Aarum 23/03/12 #

    This survey is rubbish they lie and get other people to fill in census forms, there’s no way all travellers filled in these forms, i assume there are good travellers out there, who don’t lie, cheat, steal, rob etc in the community but I have never met them and I don’t trust any of them as a result

    Reply
  • Has anyone seen the video on YouTube with one of the travellers calling out another traveller looking for a fight? Said traveller then calls the traveller “a big pile of Shite in a bucket” and he then rolls a wheel barrow full of shite into the video?! It’s comedy gold

    Reply
  • Many of our older generation lived without access to a car and lived to a ripe old age. Lack of car nothing to do with dying young.

    Reply
  • What’s with the “other white Irish adults”?

    Reply
  • Ciaro 23/03/12 #

    If we can’t stereotype travellers, why can they?
    Quote from ESRI: “… the circumstances of the Irish Travelling people are intolerable. No humane and decent society, once made aware of such circumstances, could permit them to persist”.
    not true for all travellers, in fact I reckon it only applies to a small minority.

    a uniquely disadvantaged group: impoverished, under-educated, often despised and ostracised, they live on the margins of Irish society”.

    Again, not true for all travellers.

    What about the treatment of traveller women by traveller men? What about the treatment of gay travellers by their peers?

    On average there are ten times more driving fatalities within the Traveller community. At 22%, this represents the most common cause of death among Traveller males.

    Why?

    a very high proportion of all Travellers will be imprisoned at some time during
    their life. (http://paveepoint.ie/submissions/06-Mental-Health.pdf)

    Why?

    Aren’t facts great!!

    Reply
    • “…not true for all travellers, in fact I reckon it only applies to a small minority…Again, not true for all travellers… Why?…Why?…” and what exactly qualifies your opinion above the findings of the Economic and social Research institute? Just curious.

      Reply
  • Gerard 23/03/12 #

    Have travellers suddenly become a race or are they still White Irish people as alot of people on this thread seem to be mentioning racism for some reason??

    Reply
    • @Gerard, racism can also pertain to ethnicity. Traveller ethnicity is recognised in many places, including the U.K. To not recognise Traveller culture and ethnicity, is to perpetuate the myth that they are ‘failed settled people’ who were dispossessed from the land around the time of the famine, as opposed to a distinct ethnicity and
      culture, with a shared history, tradition, descent.
      Discriminating against travellers, simply judging by many of the comments in this thread, is pervasive and socially accepted in our society. This is very sad. Just look briefly at any of the academic research done in relation to Travellers in Ireland. If you have had a bad experience with a member of the travelling community, consider the possibility that you may have met a maladjusted and troubled individual. As you have also met settled people who have behaved badly, why identify an entire culture or ethnicity, based on the actions of a few? It’s not logical or beneficial for society.

      Reply
    • As a side note Ciaran – the idea that Travellers are descendants of the Famine dispossessed is simply a myth. Their language and culture have been documented for centuries. The 1562 Egyptian Act specifically mentioned Irish Travellers in it. Travellers have also been mentioned in the 13th century (as Tinceird, from the Irish “tinceard” or tinsmiths, from which we get the word Tinker). There is also some reference to them in Irish stories such as Táin Bó Cuailgne.

      Reply
    • RG Cuan 24/03/12 #

      Sin iontach spéisiúil Brian mar shíl mise gur cuireadh den tallamh iad chomh maith. Ní Roma iad agus tá seans ann go raibh siad anseo leis na cianta… níl a fhios agam an bhfuil staidéar DNA déanta orthu.

      Reply
  • I am a musician and get together with a few peers on a monday, they are all sound, there’s only four of us though, does that qualify us as an ethnic group? We have mythology and everything, sher last week, John announced his dad has wings, and his mother speaks in tongues and drives around in a ’12 Jeep with no tax or insurance.

    Reply
  • yes there is social issues within the minority, but there’s social issues in our majority. I have met a few travellers and never a bad experience

    Reply
  • I think Brian must be living in a world of magic and make believe!! And somewhere along the way swallowed a dictionary and a very old history book from the good old days?!!!

    Reply
  • Gerard 23/03/12 #

    @Brian o dailigh- cut and paste is a wonderful tool, you must be so proud to have mastered its art.

    Reply
  • I have been lied to by travellers, escaped with my life from a drunken gang of travellers, I have been robbed by travellers and have had my business trespassed & cased by travellers, I have watched travellers dump rubbish out of vans on the side of the road and I’ve seen them sell dodgy DVDs at a market.

    There might be such thing as nice, law abiding, non violent travellers but honestly in my 40 years have never met one.

    Reply
    • I’ve been lied to by Irish, got knocked out by a couple of middle class Irish lads. I have seen millions of Irish dumping rubbish wherever they go and I guess there’s hundred’s of thousands of Irish who download music and videos they don’t pay for.

      Reply
  • Hello Journal

    Why was my comment deleted ?

    Reply
  • I agree with Ciaran Curtis and Brian Ó Dálaigh’s sentiments but it looks like I am in the minority. It’s sad really, especially when taken in the context of the actual story/headline.

    Reply
  • The amount of ignorant, bigoted comments here regarding Ireland’s only indigenous ethnic group is shocking and disappointing.

    Of course there are issues that have to be addressed but this needs to be done with an open mind and without prejudice.

    If some of the remarks above were made against black people, or were made by English against settled Irish, they would be deleted immediately.

    Reply
  • louise 24/03/12 #

    Drama drama drama

    Reply
  • Ah aren’t we a perfect bunch of casual racist? No one belong to us or neighbour ever did anything wrong.

    Reply
    • Gerard 23/03/12 #

      What race are you referring to??

      Reply
    • Gerard – race is an ambiguous concept with no concrete meaning. It is dependent on the user. Some view race as purely based on physical characteristics such as skin colour, shape of the eyes etc. Others view race as being one and the same as ethnicity. Racism, however, has an official definition set by the United Nations. You obviously don’t know what racism is seeing as how you are obviously unaware of the the ambiguity surrounding “race” and the definition of “racism”. Is it any wonder we don’t know how to deal with racism in Ireland if people like you don’t even know what it means.

      Reply
    • You obviously have no concept of the word “race” Brian. I’m sure you are a nice guy, but please understand the term “racism” before going off on one.

      Reply
    • Please, Ronan, enlighten me as to the commonly accepted definition of the word “race”. If you are so well educated on that concept I would love to hear your definition of the word.

      Reply
    • If you discriminate against someone on the grounds of race then you’re a racist but if you discrimate against a social group, does that mean you’re a socialist?

      Reply
    • @ Faceless. The word “racist” evolved to describe those who promoted the concept of race and who thought, before modern science proved them wrong, that there was a fundamental biological difference between people of different races. The word “socialist” is used to describe someone who promotes a particular view of how society and how it should be organised, i.e. based on the consolidation of all means of production and placing them in the hands of all social groups.

      As the concept of race theory eventually started to wane, and particularly after World War II, the word racist was used less as a marker of someone who supports race theory exclusively and more as a marker of someone who discriminates against a community of people of a common “race”, ethnicity, culture, etc.

      Reply
    • Brian, if I had to give you a compliment, I’d say that you’re more book smart than life smart… You missed the point of a smartarse comment spectacularly.

      Reply
    • No Faceless, I didn’t miss the point. I just chose not to stoop to your level and to highlight your own stupidity – you obviously missed that, but why am I not surprised at that. I have a different opinion than you, and as far as I’m concerned we are all entitled to our opinions. You however believe that only people like you are entitled to your opinion, and that if someone has a different opinion that you mock and insult them – that only highlights your own intelligence – if you have to insult someone or mock them to win an argument then you have no valid argument to make.

      Reply
    • Woohaa! Someone has a high opinion of themselves.

      Reply
  • I imagine the people on this thread who are stereotyping the travelling community have never taken the time to speak to a member of that community, and they are also the same people who say things like: “…I’m not racist or anything… but…”
    Thumb down my opinion if you choose, people have the right to different opinions, even ignorant people. Just to inform your opinion.

    http://www.nccri.ie/travellr.html

    Reply
    • As I said earlier Ciaran I did work with the community before for a number of years, and as you would imagine, that did actually involve verbal interaction.

      Reply
    • @Ronan, you worked with the travelling community and it involved verbal interaction- I have had experience with members of the travelling community in a professional and personal context. My experience has been very positive. Your own comment earlier in this thread states, and I quote: “… THEY… wander around the place and contribute nothing to society…” In all honesty, ask yourself Ronan, does that sound like a well balanced and circumspect point of view? If you genuinely believe that, then I feel very sorry for you. You come across as bigoted. As for your reply to my comment, you worked with travellers- this doesn’t add any weight to your opinion or argument. This is an exaggerated example,granted, but many Nazi’s worked with the Jewish community. Was their perspective validated by this? No. In relation to ‘verbal interaction’ perhaps you should open your eyes and ears more next time, and your mouth a little less. As you said earlier to someone else; off you pop!

      Reply
    • I think you will find that the word “they” is used to refer to a number of anything. I am not responsible for the development of language. Don’t call me ignorant without a plausible argument of your own opinion, which you are entitled to have, with a lazy link to some one elses research and writings. Write your own thoughts for a change and be an adult.

      Reply
    • @Ronan, I have written my own thoughts. The link is at the end of my post. How does that make me lazy? I didn’t conduct the research. If I had referenced from it without acknowledging it, that would have been lazy. Your use of the word ‘they’ followed by a description of all travelling people wandering around and contributing nothing, is on the other hand, lazy and bigoted. As for telling me to act like an adult for a change! Seriously?! for a change? implies you have some knowledge of my base-line behaviours as an individual, you don’t. You don’t know me from Adam. But then, that seems to be your thing- passing sweeping Judgement on people you don’t know. Wow! What an adult you are Ronan ;0) and what an example to the youth of this country!

      Reply
    • I didn’t start an argument in the first place, all I stated was that I worked in the community for a number of years, and while I had great experiences there, I think the negativity took largely from the positivity. I don’t want to speak with authority or add weight to any argument that doesn’t exist, just from experience. Don’t be a sad spotty boxroom belonging to your parents dwelling young boy comparing me to a nazi. Good luck with your further education, it doesn’t end you know…

      Reply
    • @Ronan: “…Don’t be a sad spotty boxroom belonging to your parents dwelling young boy…” There you go again, you don’t know me. I own my own home, with my beautiful wife. I was blessed enough to live in a country that afforded me a 3rd level education. I’m counting on education not ending, I love to learn. Best of luck to you too. Maybe you need to examine why you feel the need to revert to childish insults- “spotty” Seriously?! ;0)

      Reply
  • Why was my comment deleted???

    Reply
  • But in “Ireland”, there are no human rights abuses. Our Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, must now head to China and tell the Chinese President to end human rights abuses in his country.

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  • The treatment of the Travelling community is a shocking indictment of Irish society.

    Similarly, watch how many thumbs down this comment gets.

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  • Irish travelers are recognized in British law as an ethnic group and they should be recognized as an ethnic group in Irish law too.

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  • Biased left wing union dominated report.

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  • There’s a lot of handbags here about defining racism and some silly insults. Of course not all travellers are the same, but in many cases, the shoe fits. One threatened to curse my family for not buying something. Needless to say, I was furious, though I didn’t believe it. Stereotypes don’t generally happen based on one or two exceptions, though. Travellers picking and choosing laws as they see fit (boxing, illegit finances etc.) cannot be ignored so that people can whine over exceptions. But to people who worry about the Irish stereotyping that (ethnic, race – whatever) group, I have to ask: Do you not think that there is still a significant portion of crooks within the travelling community, who operate in a way that “normal” white Irish are not known to(and rightfully so)?

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