It depends on what is meant by the International Community. If International Community means what the USA alone says or even what its immediate allies in NATO and the Far Far East say, then, no, that is not the International Community.

Think we’ve come across you before, Paul. People in Syria are unlikely to be concerned with your narrow view. We can laugh at the US for calling its national sport the world series for instance. What Syria needs, however, is international condemnation and a concerted effort by the permanent members of the security council to put aside their narrow interests and hear what ordinary people feel about this

i.m with you all the way paul. the only bit of sense in a firum otherwise gone mad and rendered impotent under the weight of its own burgeoning self righteosness. sheep

So what do you suggest people do to stop the Syrian government from slaughtering their own civilians? There are reports of males from 11 upwards being rounded up and shot, does this sound familiar to you? Do you think if we ask people nicely to stop they will. And Sean, I think you are the only woolly mammal here, spouting nonsense from some dipstick like Julian Assange.

Indeed Sean. My nearest neighbours are sheep. For nearly 3 years now, I’ve been whiling away the days studying their behaviour. I can confirm after objective evaluation of my findings that sheep are very self-righteous.

Personal question. You too Paul. When you are close up to an incident of serious violence, how do you feel? Do you feel anything?

Incontrovertible evidence that sheep are self-righteous…
https://twitter.com/#!/cuthbertable/status/176975094587994112/photo/1

You’ll have to add “shy” to your self-righteous sheep pic Michael. The link didn’t work. :(

Oh Reada
it is a lovely picture of Sheep:) Thanks Michael. I agree with you .
Sheep do nothing to help Syria . We need ||America and America
and even Europe to get in and help those people.

That was meant to read America / NATO

Well said George
It is an appalling situation and has gone on way too long .
It is time for outside intervention , and it is probably true that
America is the one to do it , or NATO. Action is needed now.

Indeed EMD. In fact there’s at least one commentator here who would put objectivity in journalism above the lives of the people of Syria. Empathy deficit…

My thoughts & feelings exactly… Heartbreaking images

well summed up

I am not going to believe someone who is slaughtering men, women and children! And I would find it slightly easier to believe the Red Cross and the occasional journalist that manages to get news out of there.

There is no doubt propaganda on both sides. My feeling is Syria were slow to join the Arab Spring because Assad kept the middle class sweet by not kowtowing to too much western influence while being quite progressive in religious and women’s matters but the mistake he made was ignoring the poor. Then the religious nuts have a vacuum to fill.

This is what I’d consider a civil war but with the government and all their might on one side. But why do we always look to America to wade in. Why can’t it be the United Nations. Something has to be done.

Well put Joe. You see through the black & white to the big grey bit in between…

Yes, would it be a far better forum if everyone shared your view only

Lol

It is time for some type of action Alright

Number of things. Is “its manipulation and use as propaganda” really more tragic than the “preventable loss of innocent life”? I find that odd. This is the kind of comment I find so puzzling from a small number of mostly male commentators on here.

If yours are merely views, why use terms like “fact” and “proven” in your comments. I fully respect the diversity of opinion on this forum. No harm in taking a bit of care in our use of words though. Can we agree on that at least?

Not every one is calling for Western intervention. Joe sixtwo put it rather well above “The international community should take united action on this. It is a shame that nations are unable to put their stupid differences aside to save lives. Idiots like US Senator John McCain have the same solution to all problems bomb it, but the inaction of the international community give idiots like McCain credibility.”

If US was interested in stopping torture or civilian lives, Israel would not be its BFF. The policy of Western Imperialists is and has always been ” managed chaos”, i.e. never allow a country to be stable enough to industrialize so as not to create a competitor for goods and investment. If you cannot think of examples, please observe Ireland and its history. Only when empires get too weak do they relent. Ireland example again. In South America, current weakness of US has allowed profound democracy to flourish.

The Western governments, including our own, are thrilled at the Syria civil war and would continue to use the chaos to their benefit for as long as possible. Remember when Assad’s father attacked Hama, he was a friend and ally. The current Assad is a reformer so he has to go.

Don’t believe the propaganda. Propaganda itself has divided Ireland for all these years, not force. Viscious but very sophesticated propaganda killed Bobby Sands, an innocent man if there was ever one.

Hmmm. Not really sure what you’re on about. Assad’s a reformer? Who’s believing what propaganda? I’m not 12. Who’s saying the west or the USA have the answers? What’s Bobby Sands got to do with it? Nuts…

Ok. Michael. You are not 12 but I am “nuts”. Whatever you say. Any other names you want to call me?

It’s like when a drunk pushes you at the pub. He doesn’t care if his face gets shredded, but you don’t want a black eye, so you let him have his way.

Good bye….it was nice chatting.

Different terms are being used to describe the torturers in this military hospital: ‘doctors’, ‘medical staff’, ‘hospital workers’. As you say “people need to stop lapping up everything coming out of there as gospel”, including your good self. Do you have any compassion for the non-combatants caught up in this? Should the world turn its back on them?

You talk as though this is the first conflict in human history where there may be innocent people being killed. Unless you personally are willing to join the red cross and ship out I would ask you to come down off your high horse and stop painting anyone holding a more cynical view as an emotionless dog.

Ok. Ill leave emotive terms like “emotionless dog” to your good self, Imran. I’ve been around a long time and am a well practised sceptic, if not cynic. So how do you feel about the non-combatants, Imran? Show us your heart…

Reply below

Imran just because you find something hard to believe and ‘don’t buy it’ doesn’t mean that its not happening. I have friends from the middle east and the stories they tell me are absolutely incredulous but they are the truth of the situation. I have no doubt at all that what is being reported in Syria is happening. Your point about ‘thats war’ is also irrelevant. Yes it is war – and the reason is because the people in Syria no longer want to live under a dictatorship – if you remember correctly this started off as an peaceful protest to remove the regime and create a more democratic Syria, what transpired was a brutal crackdown by Assad who refused to relinquish power that he has no right to. The fall out from this is the situation now and the armament of rebels. They are at the very least fighting for a cause they believe just unlike the current regime.

Christina, I have no doubt in my mind civilians are being killed…. But I have a hard time believing Assad is systematically targeting his own people. Neither of us know what’s really going on there and all we have are opinions. I just think reports are being skewed in favour of the rebels and certain powers.

Who are these rebels? I would say there’s definitely elements of extremism within their ranks. Assad is no angel, but what makes you think the next crowd to take power there will be any better. Look at Libya, a complete mess and far from returning to any sense of normality, split down tribalist line which can only lead one way. This conflict has been going on almost a year, that’s one tough gang of civilians and defectors…. More likely foreign insurgents are at work.

I don’t accept it as a simple case of Assad targeting civilians, end of story…. Because there’s a lot more to it

And there’s no such thing as democracy, anywhere

“But I have a hard time believing Assad is systematically targeting his own people.” Why do you have a hard time believing this. As you point out, the Assad dynasty has form. Does Al-Jazeera skew the reports as well?

“Who are these rebels? I would say there’s definitely elements of extremism within their ranks.” We can’t know what’s going on there (because Assad is a dictator who has control of the national media and,by and large, keeps foreign journalists from access, and kills those who get in. Despite the lack of information, you would say definitely there are elements of extremism there?

“Assad is no angel, but what makes you think the next crowd to take power there will be any better.” The Assad dynasty has no legitimacy. You agree that the people of Syria have the right to over-throw the regime?

“Look at Libya, a complete mess and far from returning to any sense of normality”. How can you know what’s going on in Libya but not Syria? This is most puzzling.

Al Jazeera serves Qatari interests, just sayin’

Leon Panetta says Al Queda are most likely involved
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9087927/Al-Qaeda-probably-responsible-Syrian-suicide-bombings-US-spy-chief-claims.html

Assad still enjoys the support of the majority of Syrians, now would be the best time for a nationwide uprising, but alas…. tis only confined to a few neighbourhoods in Homs

Check out the latest journal story, Libya is splitting up http://www.thejournal.ie/eastern-libya-declares-semi-autonomous-region-375523-Mar2012/

Ok, not just Homs… there’s a few other peripheral towns and cities… But hardly a nationwide uprising

I’m no fan of America Paul but if America are the only ones with the balls to put a stop to this cruelty then so be it. War isn’t pretty but often needed to protect the most amount of lives.

Yes Paul, I am sure the people tied to a bed with a rusty chain are worried about that! It’s more likely they are hoping to get with their lives and all their limbs. It’s like Yugoslavia all over again, and we just stand by and watch it happen.

well said paul. also im disappointed in the journal. these sensational videos could come from anywhere, and i dont think they should be presented this way, i feel it lacks objectivity.

its about time something was done here, they cannot be allowed get away with this!

Wow, people would actually take the side of a government that is killing its own people over America? How messed up is that?

@Sean. get your camera out and head on over there so, see what objectivity is afforded to you. No problem you can do it in a weekend, ill pay for your flight.

The world stood by and let hitler murder his own people and then those of his neighbouring people by the time the world intervened millions were dead and in concentration camps. Should this ever happen again ? The only country in the world capable of standing up to these tyrants is America. And this story is being run on every news channel and publication so of course the journal reports it and it clearly states that the footage cannot be verified however its up to the person reading the news to form an opinion on the facts reported.

Well said enda lee ,as much as it has its critics we would be living under tyranny were it not for the US,they turned the tide in WW1 and saved Europe in WW2,there is no other country capable of such intervention,nor any other power democratically accountable like the US. I for one hope they listen to john mc Cain,the conscience of the world does not need yet more examples of the type we witnessed in Bosnia,its takes someone to stand up and say enough,no more.

The usual anti american rhetoric from the usual bleeding hearts. What do you suggest? Light some candles and hold protest marches? That will work. The United States and her allies and the only people on this planet who have the capacity to stop this. The Russians and Chinese have already shown they ate not willing…

How would you have solved the expansion of nazi germany so?

Paul,if an intelligent lifeform arrives & reads your comments on the journal I can’t see them hanging around too long.

@paul. U seem very naive. Sometimes the only way to solve violence is violence itself. What do u suggest? we sit out years of sanctions against Syria while the slaughter continues ?

Paul it’s not always possible to love the baddies to submission although it’s an admirable thought.

Reada: What a despicable comment! I never wrote anything of the sort. Two wrongs do not make a right. Clearly what John ‘Bomb Bomb Iran’ McCain means is that the US and allies should be able to bomb Syria *without UN security council authorization*. Similarly, even for Barack Obama to threaten Iran with a military attack is in breach of the 1945 UN Charter that forbids the use of force and the threat of the use of force against another member state.

Paul Carr
If any ”visiting intelligent lifeform from a faraway galaxy ” arrived ..,
we could get Shrek and all his buddies from a land far far away
sort out Syria….. :)
Can we get real here please . People are dying and are being tortured
We have all seen the pictures on tv and now this above ,
Do we have to smell the blood and gun powder before we react ?
It is sad to say but there are times when reaction in like fashion is necessary
to save lives .

Paul. Reread my comment. Can’t find anything despicable in it. You’re not related to Tom Neville by any chance? Bye

Paul Carr
Really !
What in your opinion was so dispicable about Réada’s comment ?
It is not always a reasonable way of dealing with situations to ”hug a thug”
Sometimes like must be met with like.
It is sad to say but true none the less.

What I find despicable is that Reada and many others wilfully ignores the point I was clearly making from the get-go. The USA, with less than 5% of the world’s population and falling, 19% of the world’s economic activity and falling, but with a bloated military industrial complex that accounts for half of the global expenditure on the military, does not have a right to unilaterally militarily intervene whenever it chooses in the affairs of another sovereign state. That is in breach of international law and the UN Charter. John McCain clearly means that he wants the US and allies to bomb Syria without UN Security Council mandate since clearly it’s going to be next to impossible to get Chinese and Russian agreement to it.

Paul Carr
Have a read of your comment again
”If you were to tell a visiting intelligent lifeform from a faraway galaxy that the way to solve violence is to use more violence, the visiting intelligent lifeform will dismiss you as inherently thick”.

Your comment was clearly not making any point …..
unless you know something about ” intelligent lifeform from a faraway galaxy ”
that none of the rest of us have heard , I am sure we would have seen the headlines.
Your comment was directed personally at Reada even though several other contributers had made similar
comments .
To be honest Paul Carr
I just found your comment to be rude and churlish .

Reada’s comment ..” Paul it’s not always possible to love the baddies to submission although it’s an admirable thought.”
There is nothing dispicable here……..
In my opinion Paul I feel sad that there are people who cannot see the torment being
meted out on these human beings and not feel something should be done ….

Eileen: I think an intelligent lifeform would agree that meeting violence with more violence is counterproductive. We can see that with our own history in Ireland. The Physical Force Republicans of the 1916 Rising preached about the cleansing power of war. What did they deliver for us as a consequence of their violent uprising? They copperfastened partition; they turned the southern state into a bog Catholic state where canon law took precedence over the law of the state; economic growth was effectively frozen until 1960. It led indirectly to the troubles in Northern Ireland post 1969. Violence begets more violence. Our own history proves this.

It was clear to Reada what I meant when I introduced the hypothetical intelligent lifeform from a distant galaxy in the later comment. Reada would have read my very first comment. In my very first comment, I made it perfectly clear that the USA should not be the world’s policeman, that it is not entitled to unilaterally intervene in the affairs of another sovereign state. There’s a thing called International Law and the UN charter, you see, that forbids these things. For Obama, for example, to even threaten Iran with a military strike is in contravention of the 1945 UN Charter that forbids the use of force and the threat of the use of force against another member state save under two circumstances that do not apply to Iran (or Syria).

Clearly, in my extraterrestrial comment, I was not suggesting that the Syrian people who are being subjected to Syrian government violence and terror should not fight back. Of course, they should! That is self-defense. What I clearly meant was that the USA and allies shouldn’t militarily intervene or assist these rebels in any way as to do so would breach international law. It was perfectly clear that Reada knew exactly what I meant but decided to reply with a facetious comment anyway.

I singled out Reada for a reply because there were frankly too many people critical of my opinion and indeed of me personally to reply to each of them. Nonetheless, you might have noticed, Eileen, I have posted quite a few comments under this article.

I wasn’t getting personal with Reada at all. I wrote that her comment was despicable not Reada.

Paul Carr
Thank you so much for the reply which really was not necessary as I know my Irish history…
However I have noticed that not in one of your comments here in reply to my comments or on this thread ,thus far
have you expressed any Sympathy with Syria (Not that that is what they need)
nor have you expressed a solution to their current plight .
You just took the opportunity ,in my opinion, to rant about America’s military might…..

This Paul says alot to me that maybe you do not realise how awful things are there in Syria.

Paul ,you have a nice day .

Paul
You just said that you singled her out
Enough said
have a nice day. :)

Good grief! I singled out Reada’s comment and replied to that. I didn’t get personal with Reada like you implied.

:) :) Have a nice day Paul

Let me put it all in one comment for you. I singled out Reada’s comment because there were too many comments critical of my position and of me personally to reply to them all. You might have noticed that I did make quite a few comments under this article in any case. I did not get personal with Reada, like you implied. I merely criticized her comment.

1.5m is peanuts to the US…..considering the quick and fierce onslaught that Gaddaffi got I think it is well overdue that european powers like France and the UK take action against the barbaric killing of the people of Syria…this is a mirror image of sarajevo,……….. Ban Ki Moon where are you????? Sean, you can find hundreds of videos online of this slaughter of people in the city of Homs, objectivity has nothing to do with it!!!!!

It took quite a few months of pounding by NATO, breaching the defensive mandate provided by the UN Security Council, to finish off Gaddafi. Why should Syria be any different?

Of course, that is another feature of wars. Wars are built on lies.

1.5 million is peanuts? What about the many millions of USonians living on food stamps? I reckon they’ll find 1.5 million dollars handy money, even split a thousand ways.

thats your opinion john. all of the reports we get in ireland seem to me to be biased entirely, and i frankly don’t believe that the supposed amount of killings is occuring, so for me it is about objectivity. all these emotive articles designed to get people on side. i feel that the many problem on here is a lack of diversity, ye people are actually believing this stuff.. its the very same as libya. and how is it anywhere a civil war looks to be on the cards in the middle east, the sheep who comment here automatically jump to emotive remarks like no more murder, stop the genocide etc. all the while according to an article which i read on reuters about 3 weeks ago. the syrian govt has an internal popularity and satisfaction rating of 61%. so. i would like to see more ojectivity here. and less of the emotive, unvarifiable and downright backwards reporting on the subject.

I love your naivety Sean. You really don’t believe that many are being tortured or killed? So we just dismiss those witness accounts from those who have witnessed it first hand?

definitely we shouldn’t leslie. i just believe that the other side of this confluct is not being shown, and as such i think the view we are getting is entirely exaggerated, and frankly i think you must be somewhat off the mark in terms of your own beliefs if you can’t see that! and i think your highly emotive response to my last comment proves my thoery that if people are spoon fed this tripe they’ll buy it. its a civil war, these things happen, so let them to it. ever notice we never hear how many syrrian soldiers are dying? why is that? and they must if its such a manic warzone as all western reports would have us all believe! a little strange to say the least.

Sean – we are all entitled to our opinions. My beliefs of either side does not make me a sheep. Now if we were looking of an ostrich ….

Indeed.How can it be so when the Syrian government has a 61% approval rating from … Oh wait. Who was the independent polling company that carried out the poll? What methodology? Any snipers in Homs in the sample?

So you’re a US tax-payer as well as paying taxes in Ireland and China now, Paul. Must be exhausting…

USonians?