Agreed. Many countries in Europe are doing reasonably well, we should have been one of them but thanks to the traitors and thieves of FF we have had the world’s greatest property bubble and bust. Last Year our banks were the worst performing in the world. We have had the greatest GDP drop of any recorded western country in peace time. FF under Jack Lynch set records for set records for the greatest growth of debt by any state in the OECD countries to date, though Brian Lenihan will probably break that record, upon reevaluation.

The editor of the Financial Times, described the last Govt. as the worst in Europe since WW2, that is some charge to make. Wall St. traders used to call Brian Lenihan the Minister for Fairies and Unicorns, due to his inability to tell the truth. It matters not a jot what this poll says, because the rest of the World views them as responsible for our mess, and reports that they have issues all state that Ireland’s woes are primarily as a result of the last Govt’s actions.

The funny thing is that FF did save for a rainy day in the National Pension fund, but they can be blamed (almost exclusively) for:
1. Not achieving any of its founding objectives.
2. Not stopping the Property Bubble.
3. Not regulating the banks.
4. Not introducing land reform.
5. Paying current spending with bubble revenue.
6. A long list of poor negotiations eg Woods’ deal with the CC, road overspends, benchmarking, Thornton Hall, Port Tunnel, P-Pars, e-voting etc.
7. Not introducing structural reform of the health and other public service or sheltered professions, when the funds were there.
8. Blowing the best chance this Nation has ever had of building a sustainable, modern and truly Republican state.

I can’t imagine that even the most diehard Fianna Fáiler could defend those.

Absolutely. They were in Govt & failed to do the right thing for our country. They ought to be stripped off all entitlements & given the standard state pensions & let them ***k off.

Hear hear!

Very true.

It’s a bit unfair to blame all Irish people for this mess.
The following article goes someway to explain why we’re in this mess and how to get out (not intended to excuse fianna fail’s incompetence in anyway).
http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/tax-and-economy/mises-on-the-causes-of-the-crisis/

I do agree that not everybody voted for FF/PDs but I was using the term “Irish electorate” to refer to the majority of Irish people that did vote for them. Of course Ireland’s economy would have been damaged as a result of the global crises, but what a lot of people are failing to see is that Ireland’s economy would still have gone to the wall even if the global downturn did not happened. There were inherent weaknesses within the national economy, the obvious one being the housing bubble. The Irish economy would have gone bust just like the British one did in the 80′s and 90′s, and it went bust during periods of general prosperity in the global economy.

While I agree with the statement that the Euro was flawed, is flawed and fatally so. I have to disagree that it is the cause of our woes, your statement is just typical FF West Brittery, blame the opposition, (the natives can’t be trusted etc).

It has to be the mark of a lunatic, to blame the opposition for FF’s actions. Did Enda drive Brian Cowen to meet Sean Fitzpatrick for a “chat” in Druids Glen. Were the opposition selling favours and appointments to Govt. boards, were they fixing contracts at inflated rates to friends and donors of the party. You might as well blame the Dáil porters as the opposition.

The problem is that until people like Tom have a bit of pride in being Irish, respect for the country and start believing that all people should be equal before the law, then we are going to have the FF problem rearing its head again. It may come under a different guise, probably most of them will move to FG, their more honest but still desperate brother.

Roll on the next bankruptcy – it is what FF excel at and FG are competent at.

Ah, Tony, I’ve been wondering for a while why you throw so much abuse at Fianna Fáil in every single post.
The phrase “FF West Brittery” has just given you away!
You’re a stooge for the Shinners! Make sense now!

How dare you question my national pride. I’m about as proud as any man of my country. Not only do you impose supposed west-brit motives upon my statement as a personal insult, but you fail to understand correctly the meaning of my statement.

The crucial word in my previous comment was ‘some’. Did I not say that ‘some things are their [FF's] fault’? Did I not also say that FF made disastrously bad decisions? Not only that, but my point about the opposition was a counter to the media-led impression of FG as the salvation of the country. They were pressing for situations that, had they been in charge rather than FF, would have left the country even worse off.

I suggest, sir, that you read a person’s comment next time you get the urge to question their national pride.

Sorry Paul, that comment was directed at Tony!

Who’s this “we”, paleface?

I know that not EVERYBODY made these mistakes, but too many of the Irish general public did make these mistakes. There are of course those young families that just fell in love, wanted to start a family, and who were forced into borrowing too much money for over-priced houses. But there was quite an amount of the Irish general public working in the banks accepting bonus payments based on the loans they issues. Too many of the Irish general public getting €2 for every block they laid to build those houses. Too many accepting advertising revenue that fueled the property boom. Too many people being greedy and assuming they were entitled to living standards that a few years previously would be seen as ludicrous and unsustainable. Fact was it remained ludicrous and unsustainable, but too many people closed their eyes and believed the fairytale anyway. Remember what Bertie said …… “If only someone had told me about what was really going on in the banks ….” Too many people from the very top down had their eyes closed. What I find annoying is that all this happened to us, an educated adult population …. because too many had their eyes closed. It also happened in other countries such as Iceland so we are not alone. But that doesn’t mean we are completely blameless. We voted in those people who allowed it to happen on our democratic watch … not to mention the huge amount of young adults at the time who traditionally didn’t vote. Thankfully that has changed now and many more people are voting.

Who cares if you are related to Dev. The man with whom the rot in political ethics started in this state.

They let the civil service get out of control, more FF lies and deflection. Are FF TD’s and Ministers such weak beings, such unthinking fools that they just roll over for every civil servant who put a plan in front of them. No of course not, they were paid well to put the plans they had to in place. Bought and sold the country once again.

Since when did an out of control civil service cause our economic collapse? I thought it was the bursting of the property bubble and the following bank guarantee and that sort of thing?

Not the question asked

they would have dusted off the guillotine for that f*cking c*nt……..excuse my langusge but I DESPISE THE MAN.I wish he would read sites like this and realise how much he is (dis)regarded by the REAL people of this country.A curse on his head.

Couldnt agree more. He is the scum of the earth. Maybe he does read this site, i got one thumbs down…has to have been him….couldnt have been a “normal” person.

I can’t stand the man’s sheepish grin with his little teeth…lol!

Good analogy but the PD’s were at one end ripping steel plates off the bottom of the boat and selling them to their friends, while FF were doing the same at the other end.

In the Titanic, the Irish passengers, the ordinary people of this country were locked in to their holds, so as not to get in the way of their betters. That is what FF and the PD’s have done to us. They go away with massive pensions, directorships and contracts from grateful “friends”.

As for FG, they say they don’t like the above but keep shouting out “don’t rock the boat, don’t rock the boat”. The same mantra that has made them the most ineffective 2nd party in Western democracy.

U forgot to mention Jim McDaid & Martin Cullen – 2 elusive slippery weasels who were up to their necks in dodgyness of all kinds but for the most part got away with it. And remember John ‘line my pockets’ O’ Donoghue !!!!

John O’Donoghue – if there’s a shiftier individual in the Northern Hemisphere I’d like to meet him

@ gavin – there is… jackie healy rae

If FF are to blame for everything why then are all the major european economies and the US suffering the same plight as ireland on the economic front

@ Mark: errr… Which major Euro economies Mark?

Never gave FF a single vote so it’s not my fault : )

I suggest we all post this piece .

Term limits as in at the end of each week we all call in as they face the public vote.

For anyone that doesn’t think FF were wholly responsible, just remember that board positions, regulatory roles, council seats, mayoral duties, all get dished out by the ruling party. From there, the proverbial shite just rolls down hill.

We need prison terms.

It is pretty interesting alright.
Although, nobody’s saying the Party doesn’t have some fault, just that anyone else would’ve made the same decisions; everybody’s a visionary with perfect hindsight!

"anyone else would’ve made the same decisions"
Yeh that’s right Paul whatever helps you justify your unconditional support for Fianna Fail

@Darren. There is nothing as unconditional support for FF, the person giving them “support” always has something in mind for themselves.

P Ward just comes across as someone who there is absolutely NO talking to. Much like Charlie, or Bertie, or Meehall, or Harney etc etc. . .
May FF rise from the sewers and produce another catastrophe some time in the future. Just wait til the country gets sorted first. Cheers.

Now hang on there lads, ad hominem attacks much??
It’s a perfectly valid point to make that any Party would’ve made the same decisions.
This is evidenced by the fact that Lab & FG were playing the exact same auction politics in ’07 as FF.
Further evidenced by FG & Lab following FF policies, to the letter, when they got into power.
Now, if you wanna engage in that debate, engage in that debate; strangers telling me I’m like Harney from a 25 word post, a bit much like…!

@Tony, I’d prefer if a stranger didn’t question my personal integrity based on what Party I canvass for…
It’s so beyond cynical & pathetic that it wouldn’t be acceptable in any journalist circles (except maybe “An Poblacht”)

“nobody’s saying the Party doesn’t have SOME fault” – well, that’s generous.

“anyone else would’ve made the same decisions” – that’s a staggering rationale.

With apologias like this it’s crystal clear that you’ve been indoctrinated fully. Imagine all that education and a total inability to think one’s self. It’s depressing.

And if you want to rail against ad hominem attacks with any credibility you probably shouldn’t immediately follow up with an ad hominem attack.

Just a thought, Paul.

“It’s a perfectly valid point to make that any Party would’ve made the same decisions.
This is evidenced by the fact that Lab & FG were playing the exact same auction politics in ’07 as FF.
Further evidenced by FG & Lab following FF policies, to the letter, when they got into power.”

Bu!!sh!t.

Nice try. Don’t think there’ll be any biters on this nonsense.

Paul, you seem a reasonable guy, even if I fundamentally disagree with you on most matters political.

You should therefore realise that the history of the world according to Weebl and Bert didn’t start in 2007. They did most of their damage before that. I haven’t even mentioned DeV yet.

Hey Gavin, we should really stop meeting like this, people will begin to talk(!)
I attacked a point, not a person. So, not an ad hominem attack.
You can’t just call something bullshit & move on. It’s a perfectly valid point & you know it (hence why you didn’t engage with it!).
And indoctrinated? It’s funny. I was gonna say the same to you!
You seem completely incapable of changing the record or even engage in a debate on the issue.

And Ryan. That’s a long debate. One, ultimately, in which I obviously come down on the opposite side, so let’s leave it at that. Too much for one post!

Hi Paul.

Firstly, your Poblacht pop was an extension of you”stooge for the Shinners!” ad hominem. Saying that you were attacking a point is merely semantics and it was clear you were playing the man, not the ball.

Secondly, “anyone else would’ve made the same decisions” – why do we bother having elections if ultimately any will do make the same decision? Why did the Greeks bother at all coming up with the concept of democracy if it turns out it’s completely redundant? It’s frankly one of the stupidest things I’ve read. When a rationale is so overarchingly dumb and obviously a blind alley then it’s perfectly acceptable to disregard it entirely (Bu!!sh!t!), do you see?

Thirdly, yes “indoctrinated” – how else can you explain why you’re toeing the party line when anyone with an uncoloured viewpoint can see that FF have led this country to emasculation and loss of sovereignty (17 out of the last 20 years – who else’s fault can it be?).

Read into the “An Poblacht pop” what you will. I just think it’s a dreadful paper that’s an (open) Party fluff piece.
And I never called his personal integrity into account. Not once.

Secondly, what a ridiculous piece of sophistry that is! You brought in the Greeks & all!
Sure, why not ignore the question of what others would have done in a a question of REASONABLE culpability; the point is to examine how much Fianna Fáil knew. And considering no other Party was calling for regulation at the time (these are the Parties that are now governing btw!), how can they legitimately attack Fianna Fáil for decisions they made when they would’ve made the same themselves. Indeed, how can you?
Like every other “pub economist”, you’re a visionary with perfect hindsight.

Thirdly, yes “indoctrinated” – how else can you explain why you’re toeing the party line when anyone with an uncoloured viewpoint can see that FF have led this country to emasculation and loss of sovereignty (17 out of the last 20 years – who else’s fault can it be?).

Thirdly, I’m not sure I buy that “loss of Sovereignty” rhetorical bull… We’re proud members of Europe, why not accept their help?
And I find it betrays a bizzare arrogance & cynicism (if you’ll excuse me for saying so) that anyone who disagrees with your particular point of view must be “indoctrinated”; unbelievable really…
One day I’ll be as enlightened as you & attempt to mow down all opposing viewpoints by calling them indoctrinated rather than actually engage in a debate… One day…
Moreover, I agree that a Recession happened on Fianna Fáil’s watch, yes, but we got a drubbing at the election. THAT is how democracy works! Party does bad. People punish it at the election. New Govt moves in & people allow a new generation to move up in Fianna Fáil.
I mean, FFS, Bertie Ahern is gone. Brian Cowen is gone. Who the f*#k are you still mad at?!
It’s about time you realised that democracy has done its job. Fianna Fáil has 20 seats. Well done.
Move the f*#k on!

Who are we still mad at Paul?

Would you like a list, with citations?

Actually “on mature reflection” I think that not only is this question fair, but it could be considered generous to the Party of Doom, to ask if anyone else could be apportioned the blame for this state of affairs.

For my part, I spend an occasional quiet moment contemplating what additional societal ills can reasonably be laid at the door of the Bert. It’s quite therapeutic.

The FForce is strong in this one.

Unfortunately Brian, a look at the list of candidates, especially for political parties, for all these elections means that on paper many of the better TDs got in (without the respect of hindsight).
One problem is that our candidates seem to be male, middle-aged, with the wife at home and no social awareness.

So when we have political, economic and social ineptitude consistantly over decades in Irish politics we need to look wider than FF.

Personal responsibility is an issue with some Irish people. However, the state as it is has taken personal responsibility from them aside from voting from a long list of mainly gombeen types.

Correct Brian, we as a people are very bad at accepting our own faults and failings, this situation is a mixture of blind greed and ignorance by everyone from the government down to Joe and Shiela public. FF admit it made some mistakes but Joe and Shiela like to blame someone else for their mistakes. It`s a shame that Joe and Shila public cant accept their collective responsibility.

I dont speak for the Irish people…. but many people believed what they were consistently told by banks, government and credit institutions.

In fairness did any of you predict the extent of the disastrous crash of 2008? Are you taking responsibility for what happenned or are you just preaching…somehow exempting yourselves and your children from this silly post colonial “stupid Irish” explanation?

Well neither did the people who were paid to do so. They in fact told people the opposite. Even people in States like the UK, USA (stupid English, stupid Americans) made mistakes like ours and they have the benefit of several centuries of boom and bust. It doesnt therefore seem to be a problem due to “Irish people in general”.

There are fundamental flaws in our system and in the way the world operates.

If we want change we need to get the right candidates to go for election. Candidates who will make the changes we need if we elect them. Our failings are in not doing whatever it takes in getting these candidates in place. A difficult task given the amount of lies propping up our society.

Our problems are solveable. If your attitude is that our problems are a “bit Irish”, then you my friend are one of the losers we can so much do without……

This is a very valid point. In my view FF are responsible for most of our current woes but everyone ignores the 40% of the electorate who approved their policies on two occasions (2002 and 2007)
We all knew what they were doing, eroding the tax base while spending money like it was going out of fashion, an absolutely crazy way to run an economy and yet a significant minority of the electorate thought this was okay. Where are these people now and do they accept their role in this crisis?

40% is not “we” – it’s “them”.

Turlough, point was, people who took part in hype scene were all adults and must take their share of responsibility for their actions too. My comment refers only to the domestic problems, and yes, some saw the problems coming for a while, the mistake was that the situation was not handled earlier .The whole 07 election thing was wrong, people wanted more of the good thing, both main parties were prepared to pay a big price for their support. That’s the problem with a runaway train, it`s very difficult to stop. The wider crisis caused by events State side compounded our difficulties which has infested many countries and is a separate issue.
Agree the system is very flawed, the calibre of candidates need to change and politicians need to be responsible for their decisions and actions. I believe this will happen.
Of course the problems in Ireland are solvable and we alone can solve them. The UK, US, Greek, Spanish, Middle East etc are for others to worry about.
Finally, yes, people who did not party during the madness have to pay for the excesses of others, and people in negative equity with their family home will suffer. but I hope the govt will do something to ease their difficulties.

@turlough The downturn was predictable. If without external forces, everybody knew that as a small economy that we could not exist solely on selling houses to each other. It was unsustainable in the long run. Everybody knew but nobody wanted to acknowledge it. If you want an example of mob mentality here it is.

Having said that with the right policies in place we should have been using the tax dollars better – building this so called knowledge economy so we have a diversified economic base. We could also have a better legacy of the boom than a good motorway network. Health service comes to mind.

The way financial markets operate worldwide and derrivatives means that the boom to bust cycle is assured. Our over reliance on the property and construction sector meant that we were very exposed and any “bust” would be amplified.

In regard to the candidates, I would like to see the type of candidate you describe but we don’t seem to be that different to other countries – male and middle aged. We also treat our TDs as messenger boys and glorified county councillors that will sort out pot holes, passports that we forgot to apply for and sorting out granny in hospital instead of concentrating on national issues.

@ Edward
Don’t mind ‘Joe and Sheila public’. Going by your constant FF apologism on here, I’d say you can find someone much closer to home to blame.

Fek Off FF with your thumbs down! We know what stool your ass sits upon!!! …smack of thy Herald coming to a head near you. . . . .

They were not stupid, any more than Bush Jr. was.

…And thats ONLY a sample – that we know of!

It’s also directly lifted from: http://www.druidschool.com/site/1030100/page/928971

You could have just posted that instead of trebling the size of the page with something that wasn’t your own work.

All fair points (well, not reading that entire thing, So I’m just taking that your point is in earnest for granted).
When a Party, any Party, is in power for effectively 20 yrs (with a 2 yr gap in the middle), a long list of mistakes & errors of judgement is bound to be easily compiled.
Wonder would you also go to the effort of compiling a list of Governmental successes…?
Would seem fair.
(Also signing your own name, rather than a pseudonym would be nice)

Actually Ryan – they copied a lot of it from me and my site at unitedpeople.ie – and if you bother to read it, they left stuff out!

Here is the link: http://www.unitedpeople.ie/fail.html

Paul, mendacity, gombeen politics and self-serving fraud are not mistakes.

An excellent post congrats

If you originated the epistle, then why do you give druidschool.com a credit on the link you just provided?

Not that I disagree with any of it, by the way.

Dear Paul Anthony Ward, your FF party just didn’t fall across and into corruption (massively repeatedly) just by ‘mistake’ as you spin it as.
They jumped in one after another willingly, again and again – mistake my backside!

…And for the record. I WAS a FF member for some time in my own country, I was the head of a local branch, and financial treasurer for a short period in my county.
I say SHORT period because the higher I rose in the org, my eyes awakened to the utter levels of misdeeds of members and corruption that was in the party – not to mention the utter backstabbing and behind closed door deals on the quiet!

I got out rapid, very rapid and will NEVER support FF as an org or anyone they put up for election. They are an utter disgrace and if they weren’t a political org – they might be classified in another country as more close to an organised criminal one!

I once had faith as FF low member – an on the ground worker, the very same that Mr Ahern is now backstabbing in his twisted version of history where he paints himself as near saint – but once I saw just how two faced things were and the REAL methods of operations were at higher levels, I was in total shock and disgust.

This country needs a decent, honest TOTALLY transparent party – and so far I have yet to see even one step up and be just even that!
…As for Fianna Fail, they are – or should be – history!

Dear Ryan Murphy, I am agreement with your sentiment 100% and anyone that help expose/remind others of just how bad FF got – also deserves credit.

We should not let the new generations forget – or lessons will not be learned!

In case there is confusion Ryan, I moved briefly to another LAN system where I do be signed into Journal.ie with a more personal name. Best wishes and keep up the good job of telling it as it is.

Not quite “nuff said”; the Galway Tent hasn’t been around in a few yrs now…

They tend to present a dispersed target these days, but rest assured, they are still there.

I reckon some (most) of your party colleagues look back on those days of envelopes and dig outs with a wistful eye, when they see FF’s balance sheet today.

No doubt there are some alright…
Still, I’ll say what I’ve been saying at every Fianna Fáil meeting I’ve been at since Feb; the Feb ’11 electoral wipeout has been good for the Party in the long run. Nobody who wants to make money out of politics will be joining Fianna Fáil for a LONG time, based solely on the fact that we’re likely to be out of power for a LONG time!!

In other words, if Fianna Fail ever gets back into power, the making money out of politics will restart through the usual means of payoffs and bribes…

I sincerely hope not. But people who are interested in power alone will always be around.

Edward, As you are casting a large stone, Im assuming that you and yours are exempt from this tirade against the Irish public?

Remember, Edward that although there was a rather large middle class in Ireland, they were a minority and not all of them partied. What happened in your circles was not replicated in other parts of our society. It is ignorance on your part to think otherwise.

So 118 Joe and Marys owe all the debts incurred since 2008.

Turlough, point was, people who took part in hype scene were all adults and must take their share of responsibility for their actions too. My comment refers only to the domestic problems, and yes, some saw the problems coming for a while, the mistake was that the situation was not handled earlier .The whole 07 election thing was wrong, people wanted more of the good thing, both main parties were prepared to pay a big price for their support. That’s the problem with a runaway train, it`s very difficult to stop. The wider crisis caused by events State side compounded our difficulties which has infested many countries and is a separate issue.
Agree the system is very flawed, the calibre of candidates need to change and politicians need to be responsible for their decisions and actions. I believe this will happen.
Of course the problems in Ireland are solvable and we alone can solve them. The UK, US, Greek, Spanish, Middle East etc are for others to worry about.
Finally, yes, people who did not party during the madness have to pay for the excesses of others, and people in negative equity with their family home will suffer. but I hope the govt will do something to ease their difficulties.
No irish person is insulated from the difficulties in our country.

Although I never voted FF, I did buy a €200 coffee machine, so it was me. Sorry everyone.

Turlough, Your last point first, if what happened in my circles was replicated in other parts of society the country would be in fine fettle now to weather the current international crisis, with no property bubble.

Your first point, my children, my grandchildren, my family, my friends and myself are not exempt from the difficulties in Ireland. We all suffer because of the antics of others.

Your suggestion of my ignorance and your assumptions aside, I believe heaping all the blame on FF is not right, whatever party was in power would face the same problems and I would still believe there was a considerable number of very irresponsible people that drove the economy to where it is today.

A FF-voting auctioneer blaming the ‘antics of others’ for his problems.
What’s wrong with this picture?

The fact that people cannot see the error of their ways.

Certain individuals would love to see people queuing up again, just to get the 1.5% commission in the door.

The neighbours just traded up to a new X5, you understand.

But yes, we all partied…

It is customary for Fianna Failers to denigrate the messenger when they don’t like the message.

And to drain the blood of innocent children to sacrifice at the alter of Satan…

The only analysis required is a proper Garda investigation

You said it Ryan. If all else fails and they cannot return comment with retorting honest facts to refuse what is widely know and on records – its then a known cheap methods to make even cheaper and stupid jokes – as if trying to make light of such matters, as “…a sure, it nothing…”.

Typical FF attitude!

Ken, the failure to regulate the banking industry is largely what has us in the mess we’re in at the minute. Fianna Fail were ultimately responsible for insuring that this didnt happened. Clearly they failed spectacularly on this front. Banks by their nature are vehicles for profit. The regulator didn’t regulate as they should have. When Banks have the blessing of the people who are ‘supposed’ to keep them in check what do you expect?

@ Ken Curtain

Charlie McCreevy told the combined EU to feck off when they tried to warn us.

The rest of the government displayed astonishing arrogance and disdain in every sphere.

This kind if ignorance was systemic in a government that squandered our wealth and destroyed us.

Please don’t insult the intelligence of everyone by claiming there are subtleties they have missed when voting.

Absolutely agree. The only reason fine Gael were elected is because they’re not fianna fail.

Well, to be fair Elizabeth, and I have no love for any mainstream parties at this stage of the game, there was a suspicion that the years in the wilderness had put manners on Fine Gael and Labour.

The rot in Fine Gael personified by Michael Lowry had been cut out, while his “great, good friend” John “I didn’t know Tom Hand asked Frank Dunlop for IR£250,000 for the Quarryvale zoning” Bruton was also gone.

In Labour, Pat “I took a bung but gave it back” Rabbite was no longer prominent and there were still one or two good people left with a tooth in their heads – the Two Baldies, Noonan and Quinn.

Mind you Joan “The Dole as a Lifestyle Choice” Burton is still there and she makes the previous blithering idiot Mary “Architects need to face the reality of the situation” Coughlan look well-informed, no mean feat.

On the basis that they couldn’t do any worse, and might do some good, and were certainly motivated enough to give it a go, the current incumbents “got a go” at government.

But this isn’t the same electorate Fianna Fáil presided over for three terms of Government in Ireland.
Its in pain, financially stressed, fearful, intolerant and alert – there is no easy ride waiting for Fine Gael or Labour, and they have a hard job to do.

People are willing to give them a go at governing, but they will expect to see changes, and reforms and trimming of excess both in the Oireachtas and the Civil Service, and a decimation of the wages some of the top earners are paid.

Should they fail to do this, the current government won’t last pissing time.

(nods)

This is the unpalatable fact the electorate has to face.
We have people in the Dáil running the state who can only turn taps on an off.
This is true whether they are in mainstream parties, recent paramilitaries, or independents.

If we had people of integrity who had to undergo examinations in political and economic theory based on empirical studies before being allowed on the ballot paper we might have a chance.

A. That’s like getting caught for comitting a crime and saying ‘Shur everyone else is at it…’
B. What other strategy would you suggest considering that the EU/IMF is in town? They call the shots now… As you well know, the current gov had SFA say over the strategy FF decided upon from 08′-11′. It’s now a case of put up and shut up, just get on with it….

@ James Lawless

Read the poll at the top of this page and argue with that.
The reasoning behind the sentiment of even the floating voter is thus –

Fianna Fáil were in power – a continuous thread of government for three terms
Despite all the other Eurozone Ministers asking for restraint, Six-Bedrooms McCreevy gave them all the finger.

After that, the Fianna Fáil’s party’s collective arrogance in power became the stuff of legend.
And was readily turned into a big stick to beat them with last time out.

Loose chippings are handy, they can sometimes fly up and remove that plank from your own eye, as you trudge your weary way to the South Monaghan FF cumann meeting.

There’s truth in your post Fiachra, but a smattering of over simplification as well.

You’ll forgive me for not going into more detail, but ’tis late:)