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Dublin: 10 °C Sunday 19 May, 2013

Column: Shouting ‘nice arse’ isn’t innocent, and we shouldn’t ignore it

Seemingly innocuous comments to women are part of a spectrum of harassment – and it’s time we did something about it, writes Jenny Dunne.

Jenny Dunne

Yesterday we looked at the response to the Hollaback! Dublin campaign against street harassment. Here co-director Jenny Dunne outlines the behaviour that the project aims to combat.

MY WALK HOME from the Luas station takes an extra ten minutes or so because of a particular road that I can never walk down alone again, after a group of young men followed me down it, threatening to rape me. This is street harassment.

Street harassment can be anything from verbal assault to groping or stalking. There are no statistics available for Ireland yet, but studies from other Western countries have found that 80-90 per cent of women have experienced street harassment. As nearly every woman I know has a story about being street harassed, there is no reason to believe that Ireland is an exception to the rule. Hollaback! Dublin has been established because we believe that street harassment can no longer be an accepted aspect of being a woman in this world.

The most common form of street harassment is seemingly innocuous. Hearing comments like ‘nice arse’ or being leered at while waiting for a bus. These things happen all the time. For the most part, anyone who is bothered by such statements is told to brush it off, that it’s nothing. I can’t agree with that. You shouldn’t have to wait until you’re groped or threatened with rape before you complain. If you feel harassed, you are being harassed. In the same way that living in a society where shouting homophobic slurs at someone is acceptable makes gay-bashing acceptable; allowing unwelcome lewd comments makes greater sexual violence like groping and rape more acceptable.

Street harassment is difficult to report. In the case of my story above, I never reported it to the Gardai because I had very little idea what my harassers looked like. After the first time they shouted, I kept my head down and walked as fast as I could. Street harassment is often brief, with the perpetrator disappearing into the crowd leaving you feeling powerless. That’s what street harassment is all about of course – power.

Power

No-one really thinks that shouting “Nice tits, love” at a woman walking past them on the street will charm her so much that she will turn around and fling herself at them. Street harassers are asserting their power over their target. They can call you names, grope you, threaten you and there is little you can do about it.

The Hollaback! movement is a way of reclaiming some of that power. The organisation was founded in New York in 2005 and is now operating in 62 cities and 25 countries, including in Dublin as of this week. People who have experienced street harassment can use the site to share their experiences or show their support for others who have been street harassed. Sharing your story is cathartic. It is a way of acknowledging that you are not ok with being street harassed. It is a way of documenting for the naysayers that street harassment is a problem that exists in Dublin.

Some people think that street harassment is a compliment. It’s not. Street harassment is something that is scary or threatening. The point at which something becomes scary or threatening is different for everyone. 42% of women in Ireland experience sexual assault or rape in their lifetimes. Being targeted in a sexual way, from catcalling to being followed or flashed can be extremely upsetting to women who have been sexually violated before. There is no way of knowing what a woman who is being street harassed has been through previously, and there is no way of knowing how she might feel about it.

This type of harassment is happening every day to women and LGBTQ people in Dublin. It is time to stop accepting it. Many of the stories that we have received at Hollaback! Dublin have been from teenagers. They are just starting to experience the world as women instead of girls, and already they are disappointed, intimidated and threatened by some of the men that they encounter. It doesn’t have to be that way. It’s time for Ireland to join this worldwide movement to work towards creating a culture where street harassment isn’t accepted.

Jenny Dunne is the co-director of Hollaback! Dublin, a social site designed to combat street harassment. For more information visit their website, Facebook page or follow them on Twitter @HollabackDublin.

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Comments (224 Comments)

  • Let me preface this by saying that I think street harassment is unacceptable. I also think that women need to pay attention to their own behaviour on girls nights out. I was in a pub one night wearing a kilt. The whole night night I spent with girls grabbing it and pulling it up, sticking their hands up and generally making inappropriate comments. If it had been men doing to a woman when they did to me, the men would have been arrested. It isn’t all one way traffic when it comes to harassment, but one sex does seems to be allowed to laugh it off, whereas the other gets in serious trouble for it.

    Reply
    • Jaysus, what did you expect. It’s one thing wearing women’s clothes in the privacy of your own home, we all do that, but wearing a skirt to the pub ?

      Reply
    • I had a similar issue I used to be in the army reserve when I was 16-17 and when I was going through town in my army uniform a hen party tried to drag me into their limo if that was a stag doing that to a girl they could well be charged with something like attempted rape. There is definitely double standards male vs female

      Reply
    • the men would have been arrested? men do that every weekend to women. I’ve seen a few get a slap but never arrested.

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    • Eleen 26/11/12 #

      It’s just as unacceptable for women to sexually harass men as it is the other way around. To treat someone – anyone – with such a lack of respect and common decency is despicable.

      Reply
    • Eleen 26/11/12 #

      But yes, men most definitely don’t get arrested for that kind of behaviour – happens to me practically every night I go out and from my experience, people pay it no mind. Sad fact is, if you’re in any way drunk or wearing “revealing clothing”, you’re automatically dismissed because it’s somehow your fault for bringing it on yourself.

      Reply
    • We see jerks acting like this all the time. With lewd comments and in some cases bum-slapping and persistant unwanted advances… but there is one thing that needs to be cleared up.. Leering!
      The issue of leering is summed up like this. An ugly bloke staring at a girl is leering… a handsome bloke staring at a girl is flirting!..

      Reply
    • @vitaminb – you’ve seen a group of men try and drag a woman into a car and nothing was done about it!? What did the Gardai say when you rang them? What happened when you approached the car?

      Or are you talking sh!t?

      Reply
    • Eleen 26/11/12 #

      vitaminb was replying to Andy Murray. I can safely say men groping and feeling you up your skirt on a night out happens all the time.

      Reply
    • And I can safely say that men in clubs get groped by women. It isn’t a gender-specific issue.

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    • Have to agree with Andy. Final paragraph sums up the piece by saying “This type of harassment is happening every day to women and LGBTQ people in Dublin”… as if public harassment is confined to women and LGBXZY (or whatever acronym you want to categorise people)…and Dublin too apparently. Jenny could have put a small bit of balance in the piece – on any given night out men are just as likely to be harassed by groups of women and even worse are expected to laugh it off. Wrong behaviour isn’t always one sided!

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    • Eleen 26/11/12 #

      It isn’t a gender specific issue, but men wouldn’t be arrested for groping women and more than women would be for groping men.

      It’s more common for women to be sexually harassed as far as I’m aware, and the feeling of vulnerability in this area would be higher for women too, I’d wager. Women are still by and large bodies first and people second – a lot more than men (although this is starting to change and it’s creepy as f*uck – Abercrombie I’m looking at you) – and all of this contributes to why it’s seen as a woman’s issue more than anything else. And while it’s true that it shouldn’t be seen as a gender specific problem, you have to still take into account the reality of the situation and not try to white-wash the issue.

      The reason it’s worse for women is simply that men are allowed to get away with it and some might say are encouraged to sexually harass women/ see women as sexual objects. Women until very recently weren’t allowed to do the same to men, but now you can see it’s happening. Still, they’re not allowed or encouraged to the same extent. Problem isn’t men, but a culture that thinks it’s okay for men to do that to women – and it’s okay for everyone to do that to LGBT people. Problem becomes bigger now that it’s okay for women to do the same to men (and two wrongs don’t make a right). We’ve yet to see LGBT people sexually harassing straight people to any extent though.

      Reply
    • Eleen, of course you are right, but I would also say that in many ways, the tide has turned in this debate too. Look at the programs made for women now, and how superficial and vacuous they are. The f*ckin’ Kardashians, America’s next top ‘poser’… and their ilk. All kept on the air by women obsessed with the superficial and objectification of women too. A lot of men are pigs, but a lot of women are becomming hypocrites too.

      Reply
    • Eleen 26/11/12 #

      Darren you’re absolutely right – and I’d go further to say that women have acted this way towards women since forever.

      Women can be just as cruel and sexist to each other as men can be. They grow up in the same sexist culture as men and they learn to internalize it. It’s a culture definitely perpetuated by the media and there’s big money in it.

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    • Eleen, I’m not sure I agree with your view that “The reason it’s worse for women is simply that men are allowed to get away with it …”. I think there is a social pressure on men to laugh off any public abuse they get from women, whereas allegations from a woman would tend to be looked at more seriously. It would seem reasonable that you are correct in saying that “It’s more common for women to be sexually harassed as far as I’m aware, and the feeling of vulnerability in this area would be higher for women too”, and that is a valid point concering the frequency and impact of the harassment.

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    • Eleen 26/11/12 #

      Because of the frequency and because women are more vulnerable in our society (and are seen as vulnerable in general) it’s true that allegations would be taken more seriously – men are supposed to be the tough ones who are in charge etc, so it would be down right embarrassing for a man to admit to being harassed by a mere women. Etc.

      Still not sure if it’s taken serious for women too much though – from what I’ve heard trying to report it doesn’t do anything and no one ever comes to help if you try to stand your ground when it happens.

      There’s social pressure on men to be tough and macho too sometimes (depends on the groups you hang around with I guess) and that can include shouting rude things at women. It’s sort of a bonding exercise. If ever I’m walking down a street towards a group of men, I usually count to see when the first one will say something to me. There’s always the typical laughter along with it and a few more comments. Sometimes it’s so half-assed you feel like their just going through the motions. But it certainly can be quite intimidating sometimes. One time a group of young lads walked passed and one of them shouted “I want to suck the legs off ya!” which was hilarious :) Poor lad hadn’t got the hang of it.

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    • Pedro 27/11/12 #

      You lucky sod…

      Note to self: Purchase a kilt

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    • Adam u creep. Guess what , Victoria Beckham gives away all her old clothes to starving children. Well , who else are they going to fit? What was it Farther Jack said about the needy? He had a term for them. – shower of bastards. It just about sums up your lack of respect for women!! No doubt , when it comes to giving to others , you’ll stop at nothing!

      Reply
    • Pedro 27/11/12 #

      What in God’s name was that comment in relation to? Stay off the sauce Martin…

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    • @Martin St John

      Hear hear Martin, that was definitely the best reindeer I ever saw pulling a guinnes truck with tobelerone in the back heading toward Dublin Airport!

      Reply
    • …………………………………………………dafuq?

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  • Everything in this article is very true – albeit a little off balance. It isn’t just women and LGBTQ community on the receiving end, I have seen men go through the same thing from groups of leery, loud women and that is no more acceptable. This is an issue which can affect anyone.

    Reply
  • What offends one woman may not offend another, true, but the intent is the same, mixed messages sent, many of the offenders are kids, in days gone by an adult would clip them around the ear,

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    • I saw a young lad exposing himself to a young girl on the train once, she looked very uncomfortable so I went and sat with her, told him to put it back in his pants until he had something worth showing off.
      Saw him when I was getting off the train, he was getting off too.. So I grabbed him by the ear and dragged him down to a security guard, who did nothing..

      Reply
    • Eleen 26/11/12 #

      Shanti Om, that’s horrible :/ and now you’ll look like a raving “feminazi” for giving a sh*t, and the boy will learn there’s no real consequences for what he’s done and he’ll probably do it again.

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    • I was kinda hoping being dragged down the platform in Connolly by his ear and me shouting about what he had done might have embarrassed him enough to make him think twice in future..
      Hopefully I didn’t go too far and emotionally scar him for life!!

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  • not just women who get leered at!! I’m still getting over having my ass groped by girls…. in broad day light too!

    Reply
  • Colin B 26/11/12 #

    Agree with much in the article but … Suggest of you are going to quote statistics in an article you provide a little information such as sample size, who conducted the research etc.

    After all, 85% of people know that 79% of people writing articles make up the percentages they use…

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  • this type of bullying or harassing behaviour is never acceptable and thankfully I’ve never witnessed it. i fully agree with the author it needs to be tackled and challenged but as a man i find who treats people with respect, i find article like this can tar men with the one brush. several times I’ve come across women especially on hen nights that do the same to men. people regardless of gender who carry on this way are wrong and ignorant.

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  • Whatever about groping or inappropriate remarks, I don’t think they will ever prosecute anyone for “leering” you’re pushing it there!

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  • I’m told it is for those who self-identify as “queer” – i.e. the gay/bi/lesbian labels don’t properly cover their sexuality. I’m also told that some more politicised gays/lesbians prefer to self-identify as queer as a means of reclaiming the word so that nobody can use it against them. E.g., neanderthal shouts “queer!” at them in the street and they say something like “yes, well spotted” and neanderthal ends up looking even more stupid. Apologies if I have not articulated that properly: I’m paraphrasing my son’s explanation.

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  • I thought this Hollaback site was open to everyone regardless of gender or sexual orientation?

    Is it just women and LGBT(Q) people?

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  • Lads – u wouldn’t say something leery to a co-worker as u now ( in 21st century) know that is offensive and just not acceptable – so why would it be OK to do it to a stranger walking in a public place? The point of the article was also to explain how these slimy comments can escalate into nasty threats – which even the thickest ‘funny guys’ would not wish on their sisters.

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  • I’m sorry but from reading this it seems that the author uses this all encompassing term “street harassment ” to explain what we all (men & women) know to be already term Anti Social behaviour and it’s not exclusive to women or LGBT individuals.

    Its moronic behaviour pure and simple. Most of the offending behaviour is already legislated for and if in countered your right, should not be tolerated and should be reported to gardai.

    Verbal abuse/ threatening behaviour in a public place is an offence and threatening to ” rape” would certainly fall into this, groping of any part of the body remotely sexual is a sexual assault or common assault and stalking is Harassment pure and simple. All criminal offences.

    As for a comment of “nice arse”, for that to be deemed an offence of threatening/insulting/ or abusive behaviour with is section 6 of the Public Order Act you would have to prove in court that it was to such a level as that ( a person of REASONABLE firmness of personality) would also find it offensive, there wherein lies the problem. Comments such as “nice arse” might be offensive to you but I’d prob try find the silver lining from it and take it as a compliment. Whereas threatening to rape is a whole different story and should have been reported.

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    • Eleen 26/11/12 #

      I think what Hollaback! does is more to give people who get those “nice ass” comments along with all the rest a place to vent, a place to acknowledge that it’s okay not to be happy about it. If you get those kinds of comments daily (as many women do), it can definitely wear you down and p*ss you off. And whatever about making it a criminal offense to say those things, it’s more important to empower those who experience harassment to be able to stand up against it, and for us as a culture to start taking it seriously. And it’s important for people not to ignore it when it happens.

      If my girlfriend, for example, can walk down the street of Dublin in broad daylight, be pulled into a hug by a group of strange men and have to push and punch them to get free – while people walked passed her – just because she’s small and blonde – I think we as a culture have a serious problem. And I don’t think it’d be solved by simply making it a criminal offense, because if everyone just shrugs it off like this and thinks it’s just a part of life, then it becomes permissible behaviour and nobody bothers to contact the guards.

      Reply
  • Some of the people commenting on this seemed to have missed the point a bit. The thrust of the article isn’t about whether or not there are (or should be) laws against this kind of behaviour, or how these laws might be enforced.

    The author makes a valid point that what might be a lewd but largely innocuous comment on the surface may seriously affect the intended target because of that person’s personal experiences (sexual assault etc).

    It proposes a way of shedding light on a verbally abusive culture and calls on society to discourage disrespectful behaviour — regardless of gender.
    And yet it has been met with a lot of derision.

    Reply
  • Interesting that so many men are taking offence to women pointing out that they’re offended by street harassment. The point of Hollaback is to open a discussion on the culture and hopefully change it. Since the age of 13 my experiences of street harassment have included: catcalls and comments which when ignored have escalated in to insults more times than I could mention. Being followed three times, being flashed four times, being growled at, being masturbated in front of three times, being groped more times than I could mention. How is this okay and why should I or anyone else male or female have to put up with it? The culture has to change, anyone should be able to walk down the street and not be insulted and harrassed for refusing to show someone their tits, it’s not rocket science.

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  • I think there is a massive difference between cat calling and sexually aggressive behaviour like threatening to rape a woman walking home. Most women will have had someone whistle or say “nice ass” at some stage in their lives and quite a large number of men too. We are becoming overly PC, police resources are already stretched to breaking point, imagine they had to waste their time on this? They would be responding to thousands of incidents daily. I’m sorry but back in the day when I received the odd wolf whistle or “nice ass” comment, I didn’t feel threatened or harrassed. As I said, big difference between that and threatening rape.

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    • Eleen 26/11/12 #

      There isn’t necessarily a massive difference between cat calling and sexually aggressive behaviour: both come from the same place. Someone who cat calls is exerting dominance over someone else, in public, without caring whether that person finds it distressing or not. Like Jenny says, a lot of women have gone through traumatic events and a sexually aggressive remark thrown at them could trigger them. Same goes for men and LGBT people. Just because it doesn’t make you feel threatened, doesn’t mean it’s the same for everyone else.

      Not everyone wants to step outside their door each day and have strangers pass sexual remarks about them – some people just want to be treated with respect. And if we lived in a culture where people were respected and felt safe, where rape and sexual harassment wasn’t such an epidemic, maybe those comments wouldn’t be so bad. But that’s why we need campaigns like this one and why we need to take a hard stance against this kind of behaviour.

      Also, you can compliment people on their appearance and flirt with them while still maintaining a level of respect for the other person.

      Reply
    • Eleen whether or not someone is distressed by remarks is something we all should consider, but we should not make it illegal for people to make those remarks.

      Freedom of opinion and all that.

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    • Eleen 26/11/12 #

      It is already illegal to harass people – verbally as well as physically – but it doesn’t seem to stop people doing it. Personally I don’t think making it illegal to shout things in the street to other people could ever work. But it’s not illegal to get p*ssed off if you’re shouted at, and it’s not illegal to take a stand against it and defend yourself either. That’s freedom of opinion too.

      The problem is wide-spread and it is impacting the lives of a lot of people – and by and large it seems to go on unheeded or unnoticed by our society. So why not make a site where people can share stories, get things off their chests and empower each other so we can change our attitudes to street harassment and actually do something about it?

      If you read the stories on the site, and the ones throughout the world, you’ll get a better picture of what’s being talked about – and the cat calling aspect is only the icing on a very dark and scary cake.

      Reply
  • Wow, Einsteins research wasn’t as detailed as yours, Nobel prize in the bag there lad

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  • threatening to rape someone goes far beyond harassment….. could you please explain why you promote sharing your experiences of street harassment on a website and fail to report to Gardai that a group of men followed and threatened to rape you?, they could have carried out their threat on the next girl to walk down that street,…get real Jenny!!

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    • You have clearly never had to report something like that to the Gardai… I have. The responce I got from them was “sorry, no one has ever reported that as a crime to us. We don’t know what to do”. So what’s the point? You just end up feeling more ashamed with the added feeling of being scared and alone.

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    • @johnny I really wish I was.

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    • was what???

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    • Eleen 26/11/12 #

      She said in the article, she didn’t see who they were. What could the guards do? Wander around questioning groups of lads who are walking about? Sure don’t they do that already?

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    • Jenny has the right to walk down any street and not feel threatened by a bunch of yobs! She obviously was shocked and frightened and clearly hasn’t forgotten this scarey incededent ? She knows the cops hands are tied unless a crime is committed . She got the hell out of there pronto. Well done Jenny . If you ever get threatened in public like this again , kick parked cars and set off the alarms . Watch the cowards run like rats . I’d rather you’d kick my car and see you safe ! I’m sure the cops would also!

      Reply
  • this article is a bit unfair to women who havent in any shape or form got a nice arse,,can i say that ?

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  • This article makes this issue out to be men versus women. I’m surprised we didn’t see the use of the term “rape culture” to be honest. I now see why the website has to specifically state it’s open to men too.

    Both sexes suffer from abuse and threats on the street. And while women are more likely to suffer from sexually explicit verbal attacks, men are more likely to be the victim of random violence. By making this out to be mainly a women’s issue you are all but excluding 50% of the population from your campaign.

    Reply
  • A burqa and hajib would be a solution.
    Given the Irish weather they could be woolly tweed. Peig Sayers couture.

    Reply
  • That makes perfect sense. We don’t all draw the line in the same place with our transgressions, so a zero tollerance attitude should be adopted. Allow people to drive at 10% above the speed limit and there will always be a section fo the community who think it’s therefore ok to drive at 50% above the speed limit.

    WRT the lurid comments, it’s incredibly selfish behaviour. I think we can go one step further than asking women to confront the behaviour themselves and suggest that any decent human being, male or female, hears something like this they don’t ignore it.

    Anyone who ever says “nice arse” to a woman on the street should expect some level of humiliation in return.

    Reply
  • Or nice arses…

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  • 42% of women in Ireland will be victims of sexual assault or rape in their life time. That means we all know numerous women who have been or will be victims. This just isn’t the case for men. Do men suffer with sexual harassment etc, of course. Is it nearly as big a problem as for women, no. I have never been sexually harassed or assaulted, I know plenty of women who have and when it comes to just harassment its a weekly thing. People really need to be more aware of how they affect other people in their behaviour. I couldn’t say for certain I’ve never made a woman feel uncomfortable or “leered” and that worries me especially when I know that I am not going around harassing women, like some men are.

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  • What about those young girls with logos on their ass? What message does that send? Mmmmm

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    • Sorry, but only the clinically stupid would see the wearing of “logos on their ass” as permission to leer/grope/catcall. That’s like the old short-skirt defence in rape cases. No matter what someone wears, it gives noone else the right to harass them.

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  • God, am I the only female who never minded a fella shouting ‘nice tits love’ …. Mildly embarrassing but mostly, dare I say it, quite flattering. Honestly I think most men don’t mean anything by it, it’s female appreciation in it’s base form. obviously threatening behaviour is not acceptable but I’ve encountered more threatening behaviour from females on nights out – like ‘ what the f@ck are you looking at, ya f@cking b#tch?’ etc, or harassing you ( almost demanding) for cigarettes or change.

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    • But Eimear, you’re obviously normal, well-adjusted, able to adapt to everyday social situations. As are most women. This article isn’t about normal women.

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    • I don’t let comments like ‘nice tits, love’ get to me either, but I’m not sure if women should be expected to just accept it as part of “everyday social situations”, Adam!

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    • What kind of a bloke says ‘nice tits love’ to a girl anyway? What does he expect to happen there, that she will drag him to the nearest bed and make wild love to him for his exceptional wit and compliment??
      He should do what all normal blokes do, engage her in conversation ,a dn try not to beak a sweat while maintaining eye contact and not glancing down…
      ..but again, if a girl says ‘nice tits’ to a fat guy… she is hilarious.. right?!

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    • Why do we keep mentioning gender? In your opinion, what should a man do if a woman on the street says ‘nice arse’ to him?

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    • When girls do it, it’s ‘funny’ Adam… when men do it, we are one small step away from clubbing them on the head and dragging them back to our cave..
      I do agree that when I see mysogonistic apes wolf whisteling and cat-calling, it makes my skin crawl (I worked on a building site one summer, and a lot of them were absolute pigs), but don’t tar us all with the same brush. And ask yourself this, if a Brad Pitt looking dude said ‘nice arse’ to you…how offended would you be? honestly?

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    • Adam what is a normal woman? A sensitive woman who may experience sexuall harassment on the street and is frightened , is not normal? Women deserve our respect no matter what.

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    • “A woman who may experience sexual harassment on the street” – be clear please, are you talking about being groped/attacked/threatened etc, or being smiled at/whistled at etc?

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    • Adam he’d blush with delight , and you know it. Then he’d brag about it for a month… Why? Because it extremely rare !!!

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  • As a woman walk through any busy street in Dublin at 2.30 am and see the abuse you will get from drunk men particularly if either you are separated from friends or you decide to go home on your own. Weekends are very difficult and there are places I just woudln’t go. Much of this loutish attitude is fed by our less than wonderful advertising agencies who at times tend to feed on the alpha male mentality… I can think of two adverts. The Paddy Power Cheltenham advert asking men to compare trans women with stallions and mares which the ASAI banned and the meteor WIFI advert also removed but for a completely different reason. Both advertisements play to the base level. Both pushed it too far, reinforced the female/transgender stereotype and gave license to the type of behaviour that this article highlights.

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  • How about we just say “they all have lovely bottoms”?

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  • 42% of Irish women have been sexually assaulted? You’re telling me every second woman has been assaulted? Even war torn African nations don’t have stats that high.

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  • This is one of the most ridiculous articles I’ve ever read. That it is written by someone from an organisation which (on paper) has a valid purpose, is absolutely shocking.

    If whistling at someone on the street is in the same league as attempting to rape them (“street harassment”), then perhaps Ms Dunne could let us know where we should draw the line? Is a smile, or a wink, equally threatening? Saying hello? How about holding the door for a woman, or stepping back to allow her onto the bus before me? Am I going to be clapped in irons for that too? Presumably, under the theory I’m this article, that if even one person could possibly find it threatening, then yes. There’s always going to be one freak who thinks “why did he hold that door open for me?” “He must want to stare at my body” “oh my god he’s going to rape me”. Never mind the fact that the vast majority of socially well adjusted people will just smile back or thank you, the fact that ONE person could POSSIBLY feel threatened means I must stop acting in this horrible way. Presumably then, eye contact is going too far? In which case, by logical extension, even looking in the direction of anyone could be considered a sexual threat? I guess next time I’m out, ill keep my eyes on my shoes (as luck would have it, I have some new shoes that I quite like), and be sure to remember not to be in any way polite or helpful.

    **I just remembered! I helped a lady up some stairs with a pushchair! Ill turn myself in to the Gardai…

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    • I think a general rule of thumb should be something like this: imagine that woman is your boss – would you treat your boss like that and expect to get away with it? That baloney about being afraid to hold open a door etc. is ridiculous.

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    • It’s easy. If whatever you’re doing is sexualised, then don’t do it. Shouting ‘nice arse’ at someone is sexualised. Holding the door for someone isn’t.

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    • That would be logical, but unfortunately, this article is anything but. If whistling is in the same league as attempted rape, then presumably the same person could feel threatened by a fella smiling at her (“he was leering at me”) etc. The rule as stated in this article is that if someone COULD feel threatened, then don’t do it. It makes no reference to the mental state or social skills of the person.

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    • Yeah I’d agree that the context trivialises genuine assaults a bit. Speaking from my own experience as a young white male, I don’t experience any sort of sexual harassment. Anything that’s said to me doesn’t leave me feeling threatened; a bit embarrassed and flattered maybe. Speaking to my sisters opened my eyes to the amount of crap said to a woman, both on the streets and in the workplace. It seems to me that women have to put up with a lot more comments than men do and that’s why men aren’t as sensitive to it.

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    • Adam what’s with the topless pose in your photo ? That alone says so much about you! Something deep inside me says ‘don’t trust this man!’. I don’t believe a word you say .

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    • Hahaha thanks Martin I haven’t laughed so hard in ages! My “topless pose” was my first attempt at photoshop, inspired by Pans Labyrinth, but thanks for asking :) I wonder what in particular you feel that “this says about me” (apart from my taste in films)?

      I would absolutely agree that playing with photoshop, and watching those dastardly foreign films makes one entirely untrustworthy – but fortunately I don’t ask you to “believe a word I say”, as you don’t seem to be a person capable of coherent thought, and as such aren’t worth any more of my time.

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    • Well having a degree in film production I think says alot about my respect for artistic licience .. The fact between film and real life are something completely different … Perhaps you are lost in fantasy and are indeed afraid of facts!!

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    • You have a degree? They really do just hand them out to anyone these days… You don’t even have a loose grasp of the English language! Is there a rough translation of your last comment going around?

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  • Jenny stop being such a princess! Report the bloody thing and do the rest of us girls a favour. Or are you just all talk? Maybe going to a Garda station is beneath you? Or mayn’t wait until it gets more serious?

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  • I wonder what would happen if a man were to stand on Grafton street and say to every women who passes “I do not find you attractive and therefore have no sexual intentions towards you.”

    I wager he would find himself in more trouble than the idiot cavemen who shout leery things at women.

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  • I dont recommend the author go to Rome. The men constantly comment to women on the street. Women seem to love it too. No precious snowflakes in Rome.

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  • When out on the town can I shout to my wife that she has a nice arse, or could that offend any female passer by?

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  • Get a grip Jenny, people like you and your organisation are driving over-sensitivity and over the top political correctness in society.

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  • Comments here are shocking and moronic. Of course street harassment can happen to anyone, anywhere. Let men who have been street harassed come forward and denounce it. The fact is however that most reported cases of street harassment come from young girls and women. Meaning lads, your mother, sister, daughter, perhaps even your partner. Have you ever taken the time to ask a woman in your life her experience of street harassment and how she felt if she was ever leered at, shouted at, whistled at, groped, followed down the street….? How you would feel if, for one day, you stepped into a woman’s shoes and walked the streets of an average Irish city going from A to B, going your daily business. See how many times you feel intruded and invaded, how many times you are objectified and there is little or nothing you can do about it. Doubt we would so many idiotic and ill-formed comments then. Well done to Hollaback! I sure as hell will be getting involved in the group and doing all I can to stop this barbaric behaviour that through your comments, you seek to desperately to normalise.

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    • It’s just that I knew hollaback before these articles (I consider it a very important cause) and I was under the direct impression that it was a gender neutral thing.
      Why (as this article does) deliberately exclude fifty percent of society who go under a huge amount of it as well but are even less likely to make an issue out of it? If the point is to make this as important as it should be give me one viable reason to make it like that?

      Now that I check out the site I see at the very bottom of the about section they do preclude men as well!! Why on earth! The only difference between someone groping my arse on grafton street and your ass on grafton street is that I’m meant to laugh it off for some godawful reason.

      Anyway, good IDEA for an organisation without the limits. Important stuff.

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  • 42% of Irish women experience sexual assault or rape in their lifetime? Cite source please? That is an extremely high proportion. I have a feeling that 60% of statistics are made up on the spot. Especially on the internet.

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    • A few people are questioning that figure… I did a quick search and found this: http://www.srcc.ie/frequently-asked-questions-on-rape-or-sexual-assault/what-is-rape-and-sexual-assault.html
      The legal definition of sexual assault includes non-consensual sexual touching. Twice in my life I’ve been groped (once at work, once in a pub) so I would be part of that 42%. And given that nearly every time I’ve asked a female friend if she was ever groped or harassed or worse, they have said they have, the figure doesn’t seem so high anymore.

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    • Eleen 26/11/12 #

      Again, It comes from the SAVI Report: Sexual Abuse and Violence in Ireland.

      (link to PDF http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fepubs.rcsi.ie%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1014%26context%3Dpsycholrep&ei=cVyzUIPuJoGohAfr0IFQ&usg=AFQjCNHdKB0lh5fcSom9s0v6G48dbUXkrQ&sig2=jqzdggE5z0yOSrwx0rOL9w&cad=rja )

      Personally, I’ve been groped 5 times, I’ve been followed three times – one time threatened with rape. I’ve been smacked on the ass once. Pickup up and swung around by strangers so many times (this is a very popular one for some reason). A man once walked up inches to my face while I stood on an empty Luas and said “nice lips” and wouldn’t move away until I got off at the next stop. My girlfriend’s been threatened with rape more than twice, followed, groped, pulled – once a man followed close behind her making doggy noises (wtf?). Every other girl I’ve talked to about this has has similar things happen to her at least once. So yes, that statistic seems bang on the money.

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    • Eileen and Rachel, I’ve read the report (not in full obviously). I struggle to find definitions within but that statistical breakdown seems reasonable. The question is does everyone on the receiving end of said abuse feel affected by it in the same way as you do? The report addresses the sequelae of serious abuse (penetrative and child sexual abuse) but not of so called ‘non-contact’ abuse. I would suspect that people would prefer to do without it but the report does not say one way or the other (at least I can’t find it – it’s a pretty big report). It may be pedantry but when people read that statistic they automatically think that it can’t be possible because of their own internal definition of assault (which for many people will be contextual rather than absolute, myself included). I’m glad you clarified this as I think it actually does your cause a disservice to throw that statistic around, it may inadvertently lose you some credibility, despite it being a clearly well researched statistic.

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    • Neil, I agree – the definition of sexual assault isn’t very clear. ‘Non-consensual sexual touching’ can itself be open to interpretation. Technically, being groped fits that description but I personally had never seen any of my experiences of that as sexual assault (I always thought the term applied to an attempted rape). I shrug my shoulders when I get a ‘nice arse, love’. But I don’t expect everyone to react the same way as me. If someone feels intimidated by a lewd comment we should all respect that.

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    • Eleen 27/11/12 #

      I understand that. But looking at the whole picture, it becomes clear that people’s boundaries (women’s especially) are not respected in the public sphere. It’s very clear to a woman when she’s walking alone or with a group of female friends that she is “fair game” for whoever wants to come along and say something sexual about her or to her, make her feel uncomfortable etc.

      There is a push to make people aware that more minor abuses should be included in the definition of sexual harassment and assault because disrespecting another person’s boundaries is the issue – not measuring how far the boundaries are disrespected. Why should a person feel entitled to grab my ass on the street without my consent? Why should a person feel entitled to call out sexually explicit things to me in public? What is the difference really between the two? If there is someone, or a group of people, making it known to me that they don’t give a sh*t about my personal space or boundaries and are actively trying to invade my space – why wouldn’t I feel unsafe? Why wouldn’t I think that if we were alone on a darkened street they’d have no issues disrespecting my boundaries even further? Sure, not everyone does feel that way, especially when it happens so frequently you grow a thick skin or brush it off – but you can only brush it off when you’re in a well lit public place. The minute it happens at night or in a quiet area, it suddenly makes you very very scared.

      So that’s why whether people feel the same about the abuse is a redundant question. It’s not really the issue. Everybody feels different about everything and every day people feel different. It’s the intent behind the action that matters, and our attitude towards it. You just shouldn’t be allowed to reduce another person to a sexual object in order to get your kicks. It’s NOT the same as flirting, or giving someone a compliment. And sure there’s a fine line and things can get confused, but on the whole, if you go up to someone and show them respect, they’re not going to feel offended or threatened.

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  • There is an ocean of difference between someone shouting “nice arse” and being threatened with rape. The world has gone PC mad. As a 50 year old, I would love someone to shout “nice arse” at me occasionally !

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  • I don’t condone “street harassment” but I’m failing to see the point of this Hollaback movement. It’s not going to stop people shouting “nice ass” at people, is it ? In fact I can see situations where two fellas shout at a woman just to see if they can make it onto Hollaback. Someone (a lady) commented above that we were being overly PC these days and I agree. How long before glancing at a woman on the street as you walk past each other becomes street harassment ?

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  • Dublin is full of really buitiful women .. If I glance or smile .. Is this harassment ?? It’s like men being around children! We are afraid to even look at them in case were seen as perverts! Dark glasses methinks !

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  • is it wrong of me to think the woman in the blurry picture at the very top of the article has got a great rack? is that wrong? im i a bad man now?

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  • I posted that just to see who gets up earlier for work, Men or Women. Looks like twice as many men have to be in work early.

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  • seriously if anyone is offended, by a nice arse comment or nice tits comment, on the street ,your too weak for social interaction, word of advice, don’t go into a nite club because a drunken horney man might grab you inappropriately and try dance with you thinking he might get lucky… do you want to be in counselling for the rest of your life? you best not leave your house ever!!!!

    what shite

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    • Question: if a guy called “nice arse” at you in the street, how would you feel? Genuinely. Or is it only OK in male/female hetero situations? I suspect there are a lot of double-standards behind the male defensiveness among these comments.

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    • Load of crap, Chris. It’s a compliment, end of. Threatening sexual assault is an offence, and some would say quite a different situation.

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  • As a man I think anyone from my gender who treats women with a lack of respect is a complete dick. However as an individual I think lumping cat-calling and random leery comments in with sexual harassment is just silly. By definition, harassment requires a sustained pattern behaviour on the part of the offender. A builder whistling once at a good looking woman is being a dick, but he is not harassing anyone.

    And while threats of physical assault and unwanted physical contact cannot be defended, for a lot of things I think we just need to have thicker skins. People act like like dicks, that’s just a fact of our society.

    Finally, (again I say this as an individual and my take on the matter is by no means how I think other people should react) I would love if a member of the opposite sex randomly said “nice arse/body/face/whatever” to me. I think it’s nice to feel desirable to others.

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  • FLEMING! 30/11/12 #
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  • Not loving this new character limit on posts, Journal!

    Ok so to continue, apart from the ridiculous generalisations in the article, one of my main problems is the sexism inherent in it. Why does it specifically state that women and LGBT people are the ones at “risk” from this kind of “harassment”? Because when a straight man has his arse groped, or is whistled at in the street, (which, by the way, there is a HUGE difference between) it doesn’t count? What about if a gay guy whistled at a straight guy? He couldn’t be offended, because he’s straight… But what if he was “in the closet”? THEN presumably you feel it would be wrong?

    I’m at a loss for words (and that’s unusual for me). Had this article been published on the first of April, I’d have had a wry smile, and waited to watch the idiots being taken in by it. But I can only assume this is intended seriously!?

    I think my main problem is that there IS a serious problem with harassment in our society, and you are taking away from the seriousness of it with this rubbish.

    You are doing immense damage to those with legitimate claims of harassment. The next time someone is genuinely harassed, maybe a girl walking home alone, threatened with rape, some people are now going to think “ah sure some fella probably just smiled at her, she needs to cop on”

    And that’s thanks to you.

    I know someone who was recently attacked for being gay, and that you’re equating that to being ‘whistled at’ makes me so angry. You’re a disgrace.

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    • Eleen 26/11/12 #

      She’s not though. She’s saying that sort of behaviour can lead to worse behaviour. Cat-calling is just a small way someone can exert a certain amount of power over someone else. It’s a small thing, but it’s still showing a lack of respect. And it goes without saying that if people are allowed to shout whatever sexual things they want to strangers on the street without giving a sh*t how they’d feel about it, then some people will feel free to escalate things. Hence you get people following you describing in detail what they want to do with you if they got you alone somewhere (for example – has happened to me a few times). And then it continues from there.

      So why – like Jenny says – should we wait until something REALLY bad happens before we make a stand?

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    • Ok, so I got my arse groped on Saturday night – didn’t see who it was, male or female. What should I be doing about this? Or does it not affect me, as a straight male? From your earlier comments, it only ‘counts’ if its against women and LGBT people

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    • Eleen 26/11/12 #

      I never said that. If you look up a little more on the comments, you’ll see I said it’s unacceptable to do that to anyone male or female – and f*ck knows, it’s disgraceful if women think it’s okay to just walk all over someone just because they’re a man and therefore can’t complain about it. I’ve seen women abuse men something awful because they know men aren’t allowed to fight back and I don’t condone that one bit.

      And I certainly wouldn’t dream of going up to a stranger and touching them without their consent, it’s creepy.

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    • Eleen, YOU might not do it, (neither would I) but I take exception to the fact that this article specifically talks about women and LGBT people only, as if it doesn’t affect straight men. It happens to everyone, and most people, male or female, straight or gay, aren’t bothered by it.

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    • Eleen 26/11/12 #

      I agree with you that men should be included.

      But you can’t say most people aren’t affected by street harassment. Many may shrug off the minor incidents because they happen so often and it doesn’t ever escalate. Some may find it flattering. Still, my point stands that this kind of behaviour – IS upsetting for a lot of people, can be very triggering. It’s not that people don’t mind it – it’s the intent behind it. The intent is to exert dominance over someone else (however slight) and that’s not something you can always feel comfortable about. Like, when someone comes up to you and sees you’re upset and says you should smile more – it’s pretty annoying. If a man says “hey, why don’t you give me a smile!” and you don’t reply and they say “f*cking b*tch!” for example – it makes it pretty obvious pretty quickly that they’re not just trying to be nice. A man actually spat in my face when I declined coming back to his place – and he was being pretty nice up to that point. So next time a man tries to chat me up, I’m going to remember that incident and be on my guard and I’ll feel vulnerable. And if someone says “nice ass” the first thing that’s going to happen to me is I’m going to remember the last time someone said something similar to me and it ended up not being a very nice situation and I’m going to continue thinking about that all day and it’s going to get me down.

      So that’s why it’s good to start treating all kinds of sexual harassment as something that could well upset someone and then maybe we should be asking ourselves, why the hell do we let it happen? It’s NOT the same as being complimented, it’s not the same as being chatted up. You can eye someone up and down without making them feel threatened. It’s that extra layer of power “I can do and say what I want and you’ll just have to take it” that makes it horrible.

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    • So Adam explain all the votes against you .. I rest my case !

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    • You don’t have a case. You haven’t made a case. You’re yet to make a coherent comment. Please go back to school.

      But to address your ‘point’, such as it is, I don’t ask people to agree with me. If a majority was always right, the world would be a better place, unfortunately this is not the case.

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    • Also, at 55 likes to 46 dislikes, I’m not entirely following you…?

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    • Eleen 27/11/12 #

      Adam, I just don’t get that you have to keep saying again and again that certain forms of street harassment is not harassment but a compliment – you’re pretty much stamping all over everybody who thinks and feels different. And I don’t get why you keep harping on that men experience street harassment too and that this is bad, and then you turn around and say that if it happens to you, you should take it as a compliment. So what side of the fence are you on here?

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    • Gill that’s because you are a cabbage full stop.

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    • Why does there have to be a ‘fence’ Eleen? why do we always feel we have to ‘take sides’? It isnt as black and white as all that. I think that genuine street harassment is a serious legitimate problem, for men and women, gay and straight. I also think that some of the ‘issues’ mentioned here (being whistled at etc) are not in the slightest considered harassment by the average person, and are usually considered complimentary, at worst a little embarassing.

      So basically im saying that i think the line of ‘harassment’ must be drawn higher than ‘catcalling’ or whatever. But wherever you draw the line, why is the author trying to make it gender specific?

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  • allan 26/11/12 #

    I’m just as well inclined to start up a hollaback website against ‘Racism in Ireland’, verbal/body language assaults are the norm . Green arrows please, anyone?’

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  • Men can’t help but ‘leer’. It’s genetic…

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  • I am so tired of the PC Brigade in this country. If I see a good looking woman should I leer at her or just say “My god you are beautiful” or” Wow what a figure”. Jenny if your feeling ignored I’m really sorry, I think this column is a FARSE.

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    • *FARCE.

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    • “If I see a good looking woman should I leer at her or just say “My god you are beautiful” or” Wow what a figure””

      Ask her out for coffee in a non menacing way and if she refuses just leave it.

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    • If it weren’t for the “PC Brigade”, you would be treated as just another illiterate Mick.

      It’s not too much to expect adults to treat each other with the same level as respect they themselves would like to be treated.

      That does not mean treating everyone the same way, just treating everyone with the same respect.

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    • *FARSE – Fine Arse :)

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    • @Continent: “It’s not too much to expect adults to treat each other with the same level as respect they themselves would like to be treated”

      That’s what’s so ridiculously one sided about this article – most men think it’s a harmless laugh to shout ‘nice tits love’ and wouldn’t mind being cat-called at themselves. There’s waaaay too much of this based on personal feelings. I suspect the vast majority of (sane) Irish women see this as what it is: immature at best, mildly annoying at worst. I’m sure very few Irish women feel like that man’s going to jump down off his scaffolding and rape them!

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    • Eleen 26/11/12 #

      Glen. The point. You have missed it.

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    • Eleen: care to explain? I’m not sure what it is I’ve missed – and I’m quite good most of the time at not missing. Although it is Monday…

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  • Leering and comments can make anyone feel uncomfortable. Wasn’t there a case in the UK recently where a black woman won a successful racism case against a guy who would eye her up and comment on her bootie on her train home? So guys, seeming as we are all pc on here I think we need to retract any comments where leering or arse related remarks were defended.

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  • This feminist rubbish makes me sick.

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  • Has this website just become a platform for LBGTQ and anti church issues? Everytime I look at it there seems to be someone complaining about some trivial matter and trying to turn it into a big deal. Being told you have a nice arse isn’t a bad thing. Get over it.

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  • @eimear… You took the words right out of my mouth. Totally agree with you.

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  • i find it very hard to make any kind of statement here in regards to anything highlighted in the article when people are allowed harass other readers and reviewers, your paper needs to screen there comments more. when people like martin st john are insulting people here and not making much sense in there comments and no relation to any facts in conversations then thats allowing bullys to freely attack people, which is in fact what you were in a roundabout way trying to attack in your column.

    journal.ie, get your act together!!!!!

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  • In more important news, the yachts reopenin nxt wk

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  • I really love how womens minds work ,

    The tv ad said i was ugly, ill go buy a load of makeup

    The billboard ad called me fat , im going to go develop an eating disorder

    That girl in porn did that thing , im going to have to try compete with that because its what i think men want

    A guy on some scafolding said i had a nice arse – this is the most traumatic thing thats ever happened, ill never go outside again.

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  • its been happening for millions of years, not going to change now. Get over yourself

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  • This unfortunatly could never be a law in completly uninforceable if its only you and the person who said it present at te time itll be thrown out of court legally they couldnt take her word over yours unless it was a pholisical attack

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    • Wrong. It is already written into law.

      Yes it’s difficult to enforce in cases where some randomer shouts something in the street, but where it’s someone you know and there is repeat behaviour, it is absolutely enforceable.

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    • So basically you could walk into a gardai station and say i said nice arse to you and ill be charged … INCORRECT

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    • Right… in what alternate universe did I say that?

      Maybe come back to me once you’ve learnt to read.

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    • Well if you actually read my first comment you wouldnt have even replied with you two pence worth my point was it would not be inforced i feel that carry on isnt acceptable but their is no was it could be inforced there would just be no evidence

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    • Sorry, it’s idiotic to say that something can’t be a law just because in some circumstances it will be difficult to enforce.

      Really really idiotic.

      Laws don’t have to be enforceable to be laws. Even for isolated incidents there can be witnesses. For repeat occurences the victim of harassment should keep a log of the dates and times that every instance of harassment occured. From this a case can be built.

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    • That can all be done now and filed as a harrasment or sexual harassment case but for the 3rd time thats not my point maybe i need to write my words bigger you seem to be struggling here

      MAKING IT ILLEGAL TO MAKE COMMENTS LIKE SAYING SOMETHING LIKE “NICE ARSE” YO SOMEONE IS NOT INFORCEABLE!

      Hope that helps you out

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    • “Laws don’t have to be enforceable to be laws”……….WTF??….not enforcing a law makes it irrelevant.

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    • Street harassment isn’t harassment in the legal sense. It doesn’t fit the definition.

      It would come under the public order offence of threatening and abusive behaviour if anything.

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    • Goe him a break he struggles reading comments never mind his own rambling he dosent realise rule one of a law it has to be completly inforcable but sure skip that part when ya want to rant

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    • Been through this very thing with the Garda, I was called a very nasty name by a female, so I reported this to the Garda who informed me that their was nothing they could do about it unless, someone independent heard me being abused and they would then have to make a statement to the Garda.
      So enforcement will never be easy with the law as it stands.

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    • And for the record – even with a log of incidences and a load of evidence of harassment it doesn’t mean the gardai can do anything about it, as I found out when I spent 3 months being harassed in my own home.. Gards STILL haven’t arrested the perpetrator..

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    • Shanti. If that’s true it’s pretty scary !

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    • With a charge like harassment they have to build a case. They have to prove that it’s systematic and deliberate and all that.
      This involves you giving many statements, providing any evidence that you have, and when there is enough of that, the file is sent to the DPP to determine whether they wish to take the case to court.
      The harassment may continue for a considerable amount of time before the Gards *can* do anything. The charge of harassment carries a sentence of up to 7 years so they are inclined to proceed with caution. Even at that as one of the Gards who attended my assault told me, securing the conviction has a very low success rate.

      Until an arrest is made the best the Gards can do is speak to the harasser and ask them to leave you alone. Even when an arrest is made they can only be held up to 6 hours, with an extension if granted by the superintendent.

      Everyone does have the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, but sadly for this reason the victim usually ends up feeling even more helpless. I am glad we are presumed innocent, but I also wish there was more that could be done. It’s a very delicate line unfortunately.

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    • @John -
      ““Laws don’t have to be enforceable to be laws”……….WTF??….not enforcing a law makes it irrelevant.”

      Irrelevant laws are still laws. Some people follow the law because they want to be law abiding citizens. Sorry if that’s a foreign concept to you. And in any case, this law IS enforceable, it’s just difficult to enforce in some specific circumstances described by the OP.

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  • Did that really upset you that much????? You are nearly as sensitive as Jenny.

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  • Can anyone tell me what this ‘q’ is that’s been tacked on to the end of ‘LGBT’?

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  • which western country was that???

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  • Welcoming less comments makes rape more acceptable? What de fug?

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    • I’m sorry folks! But let’s be realistic here, I do agree that shouting comments are unacceptable but to make the statement that shouting comments encourages rape? How the hell does it? Seriously? You’d need to proper deluded

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    • Eleen 29/11/12 #

      You would need to proper deluded alright.

      Shouting comments = someone not having respect for another person’s dignity, boundaries or personal space. If we let them away with it, we’re saying “sure you can shout whatever you want to a total stranger no matter how it would make them feel”. And if we say it’s acceptable to disrespect somebody’s boundaries, then it’s not that hard to imagine it would encourage some uncaring and unfeeling *rseholes to take things further.

      Also, you’re forgetting that a lot of street harassment isn’t just comments being shouted at people – it’s being followed, being groped, being pushed, being threatened etc etc.

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  • Where’s my earlier comment gone!?

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    • johnny 26/11/12 #

      harrassment does not cover an instance where a guy shouts “nice ass” ar a woman on the street.

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    • “Systematic and/or continued”

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    • Securing a conviction for harassment is bloody impossible in this country.. My best friends ex kept breaking into her house and the Gards did nothing. I was being threatened and intimidated by the people living downstairs from me and I’m still waiting for something to be done about it.. Gards have told me – conviction isn’t very likely.. It’s something that’s nigh on impossible to get a conviction on. Despite the fact that I have recordings and a mountain of evidence.. Still apparently impossible to prove harassment in court..

      Makes you wonder what the charge is there for doesn’t it?

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    • Shanti I suggest you get good legal advice.. There must be someone reading this who can help?? If your renting start with your Landlord/Lady! Then talk to Treshold ?

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    • Already did, they were evicted but refused to leave. Got rid of them eventually but only after being assaulted..
      The one to be charged with harassment is evading arrest and now the Gard who was dealing with the case (and he was brilliant) had an accident and will be out of work for a while.. So until he comes back we seem to have hit a wall. The other Gardaí aren’t nearly as good at following up as he was.

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    • Shanti .. A persons PPS number is traceable .. This alone can leave a trail ? Someone is dragging their heals! Don’t give up . Call to the Guards And ask the same question every week. “what are the doing!” ? If u give up , they will.. Sounds like you’ve been to hell and back . Start with a PPS num. Did they sign a lease while renting? Details of employment .. There is a trail ? Don’t give up. These charges are serious !

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    • If its a civil matter then gardaí can’t really do much to be fair! It is hard to prove, hence why the complaint should have been lodged with those who were managing your tenancy! Also the gardaí will want reports on every time an issue happened why they were or weren’t contacted.

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