you need a new accountant

For that to happen you’d need to be earning close to ?10k gross per week, I wouldn’t worry if I were you!

Lads it was a joke! Ye need to lighten up a bit

Look at Rob above, no.

“In Australia for example this goes to local councils who provide parks, sporting venues, rubbish collections etc etc. They don’t use the money to repay bank debt!!!!”

Neither do we, the HHC is going straight to local governments.

@_doesnotcompute

If you keep telling yourself that over and over it might come true

No it’s going straight into the exchequer to be distributed, we will see how truthful that is when we see the council budgets for next year

It won’t be no matter who says it will. It has to be introduced. Stamp duty needs to be done away/ reduced with as having both is not justifiable.

At 1% stamp duty is effectively gone. An annual property tax is much fairer and more sustainable than the high stamp duty rates that we had in the past.

Never has a tax been scrapped in this country. Only new ones found.

Tim. Who are the rich ? Who defines it ? if it is annual income of €50k those on €49 k will agree bt those on €51k will not.

While those who bought property in recent times would seem to be hardest hit by an impending property tax since they have seen their home prices collapse there is also the long run reality of recovering values and the low mortgage interest rates that membership of the Euro brought.
In the seventies we had interest rates of eighteen per cent plus rates which were the equivalent of property taxes plus low wages. The difference over that time is the dramatic growth of a consumerist society that wants everything and they want it now. Forty years ago you furnished your new home one room at a time and frequently with second hand purchases. Today…
Perhaps a return to older values could be seen as a positive rather than a need for blaming everyone but ourselves.

@ Philip: Ironically FF did scrap property taxes – back in the late 1970s.

Not really Ryan. The got rid of rates which was a huge mistake instead of reforming them. Instead they relied on high stamp duty rates which were much more unfair.

Great Idea Tim but as the French are discovering . The real high earners who are generally the brightest will just move themselves and there assets overseas .
In the case of the French they are moving in hordes to the UK where they are paying 50% less tax .
At the moment the high earners here who are paying tax are paying it at 48% plus another 10% on the various charges . Charging them more becomes counter productive

“how revenue will be able to determine what tax payers actually own property”, That would have been the point of the registration for the household charge.

Yes but perhaps your not aware quite a substantial amount of people have not registered for this charge, besides not all those who registered are paying income tax, my point is that Revenue are very good dealing with people on the system, PAYE workers etc etc but have little if any interaction with those unemployed, not registered to work in Ireland, residing here but not on the tax system, pensioners, those on various social welfare benifits etc. Just because your a tax payer, does not automatically mean your a property owner. I refer back to the debacle that is the lack of any data base on property ownership in Ireland and until this is resolved, the farce will continue. As an aside what about determining the size of the property, are revenue going to take peoples word on it?

Presumably revenue have a database showing people’s names and addresses. They will then have another database showing who has registered for the household charge, what their status is regarding waivers etc.
Presumably they can also use the electoral register, which is probably open to them.

They can put this information together and get a list of names and addresses that have no status on the household charge register and send them letters, threatening full tax audits.

Obviously the point in the household charge register was to save anyone having to go through that sort of exercise, the government had to assume that people are basically law abiding, no one really bargained on the reality of that assumption.

Obviously some people will fall through the gaps. However if the majority of people who should be paying can be identified then the majority of the necessary revenue should be able to be gathered.

One big difference of course is that while government has to assume that people are basically law abiding revenue works on an opposite assumption.

@ Joey Dempsey. When you purchase a house, you have to hand over your PPSN to your solicitor, who in turn sends this information to Revenue. So Revenue already have a record of property purchases and the associated PPSN numbers.

Also when people apply to Revenue for Mortgage Interest Relief, they have to supply their PPSN to them

Let’s not forget the land registry which covers 90% of the land mass and 85% of title and will only expand since the introduction of compulsory first registration across all counties. Saying that I still venomously oppose the household charge as it stands, well have to wait and see with this new tax.

Registry of deeds and land registry both have lists of deeds of propertys / land (both under the control of the property registration authority)…if they can be used I don’t know.
Also…pensioners and unemployed pple not in reciept of mortgage interest supplement are not exempt from HHCharge…I’m currently unemployed and was liable.

Joey
Anybody who has ever claimed Mort age interst relief will have to pay the property tax equally if you have claimed under section 23 or any other property relief scheme , if you bought your house for cash there is a slim chance you wont be caught but all others are very easily identifiable

Points all taken but i still maintain there will be enourmous difficulty and confusion for revenue, just on one point raised, when i purchased my own house 11 years ago i do not recall ever giving my PPS number either to the bank of tax man for that matter. I wondered also what about those who have sold their properties, will revenue be aware of this? I know there are a lot of what if”s but it would seem the absence of any coherent approach or data bases along with revenue not necessarily having up to date info on ACTUAL home ownership by ACTUAL tax payers is going to lead to yet another debacle, as it is i believe people who paid and registered are getting warning letters and those who have not! ZILCH

This has yet to be decided but as far as I know it is being considered.

Revenue do a pretty good job all around, much more efficient than other state departments

At least there’s nothing geographically displeasing to you on this one,

This tax winds me up more than the Household Charge. What about all those that bought during the peak, paid a **ridiculous** amount of stamp duty at the time, and are now expected to pay through the nose for this tax… complete nonsense, I seriously hope there are exemptions for all those that paid a high level of stamp duty in the past… otherwise you’re just being taxed twice as far as I’m concerned.

Declan, hopefully consideration will be given to those that paid ridiculous amounts of stamp duty in the last ten years or so. High stamp duty rates were a very unfair system, an annual property tax should be fairer and more sustainable.

On the flip side look at all those who paid no property taxes for the last thirty years. First time buyers were largely exempt and those that purchased their family homes thirty years ago paid very little compared to what people had to pay in the last ten years. An annual property tax is a fairer system.

You might as well say, everyone back the winner of the grand national and give all the winnings to kenny to leave.

That is not the plan. The plan is hold out until they all get their pensions, paid for with “bailout” borrowings.

Yeah, sure…

Hard to make sense of this. Ever thought of using sentences, paragraphs etc?

Reg I could make perfect sense of it. Do you need glasses? Once I can only afford to pay the interest on my mortgage the house hold/ property tax will have to take a back seat and on my day out in court I will offer to pay off what I owe by doing work around my local community for an agreed hourly rate. After that they will have to lock me up.

More bullshit to keep the whole issue of property taxes in peoples mind during the summer, and both sides of the home owning public at each others throats.Its a vague statement by government at best, and immediately reminded me of that old Simpsons episode where the town adopted the slogan and ethos of ‘can’t someone else do it?’ . Look at the predictable flow of comments. People who’ve registered for whichever reasons and unregistered people, each bitter at the other. Next press release will probably throw a spanner in the works by playing urban against rural houses again, site size against location and then homeowners against renters or social housing.

Why should someone pay a household charge when they receive nothing in return for it.

BOOO

Privatise local government?

Couldn’t make things any worse.

I wonder how many Rob Mulroy’s there are in the country? :)

Hey Revenue… look over here!

Rob, when you bought your house, did your solicitor ask for your PPSN for the Revenue? Have you ever applied to Revenue for mortgage interest relief?

The fact that you are evading income tax has no bearing on whether or not Revenue will find you. In fact, once they realise you’ve bought a house but you have no declared income, you are likely to be heavily audited. I wouldn’t fancy being in your boots when that happens.

Rob’s generously provided a fair amount of other information over the past few weeks that will help Revenue zero in on him.

Rob the socialist. How can you put forward a higher tax band for “the rich” when you yourself don’t think you are obliged to pay tax. Not exactly supporting the greater good or the downtrodden worker, are you?

Rob I have just forwarded your IP address to Revenue.ie together with your posting. good luck with that.

What you re not telling people is the household tax can only apply as a charge on the property for 12 years-after 12 years the charge no longer applies-it will be a similar time period with the property tax.