JUNIOR INNOVATION MINISTER Seán Sherlock has said he remains committed to implementing new internet copyright legislation – but has said he is personally willing to bring forward full primary legislation, which would allow for full Oireachtas debates.
Speaking in the Dáil this afternoon, Sherlock insisted that as a member state of the European Union, Ireland needed to implement the copyright directives laid down by the EU, which allowed copyright holders to take measures to ensure their intellectual property was not being infringed.
The minister assured independent TD Catherine Murphy, who had raised the matter during the Dáil’s ‘topical issues’ time, that this right was “not superior to the right of the individual user” to use the internet, nor the right of an internet service provider to conduct their business.
An Internet Service Provider (ISP) could not be asked to monitor all the data of each of its customers in order to prevent copyright infringement, Sherlock said, referring to a recent European Court of Justice ruling.
“Nobody wants to limit the freedoms of the internet – it is counter-intuitive,” Sherlock said. “We live in a democracy.”
Sherlock said the introduction of the statutory instrument – a form of law which can be enacted without the need for Oireachtas approval – was “imminent” and that he understood it would be discussed at cabinet next week.
The minister said he was “personally” not opposed to the idea of introducing a full Bill to try and legislate for the issue, but argued that any government would be unable to legislate properly unless copyright holders and ISPs came together “in an organic fashion” to agree a common platform.
This is not SOPA legislation. Absolutely not. What this is is a restatement of what the Irish government held to be the case anyway, in relation to copyright.The government’s push for new legislation is required after the High Court last year ruled that Irish law did not provide copyright holders with the ability to seek an injunction stopping inappropriate access to their material online. This is in contravention with an EU directive.
‘Pretty vague language’
Catherine Murphy had opened the debate by saying the “pretty vague language” of Sherlock’s draft legislation had caused “serious concerns for the established online freedoms in Ireland.”
The language was “open-ended” and did not give judges “any instructions by way of legislation that will set boundaries”.
Murphy argued that the current wording would give a court the power to “block a site where any user had even linked to copyrighted material… it’s entirely up to the courts, the grounds under which an injunction can be granted.”
Murphy added that Ireland was “about to have a hurricane storm” if the difficulties were not ironed out. “If this Topical Debate is the start and end of this debate, it will be absolutely deficient,” she said. “We need to have a debate, and we need to have debate within the next week, on this.”
The Kildare North TD said there appeared to be a contradiction between Sherlock’s desire not to give courts the power to enforce unlimited blocking of websites, but still offer the ability to grant injunctions which could do just that.
There is a very important and strong need to have a complete clarification, before any statutory instrument is signed – because this has the potential, because of its vagueness, of doing damage.TJ McIntyre of Digital Rights Ireland, which opposes the current format of the proposals, said the new draft published today showed “no substantive change” that he could see.
He argued that the new draft shows how the concerns of his group, as well as those of ISPs and the telecoms industry “have all been ignored”.
Watch: Today’s Dáil discussion on the controversial ‘Irish SOPA’
In full: Seán Sherlock’s draft proposals for online copyright law
Read: Ireland’s ‘SOPA’ legislation: The big arguments for and against
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27 days ago #
I also ‘personally’ feel strongly about SOPA and acta, oh I am going to resort to name calling here but the Sherlock appears to not understand the implications here… Fu**ING moron. there now I feel better.
27 days ago #
best reply yet keep up the good work
27 days ago #
He’s certainly ignorant to how piracy functions, as he does not realize that Person to Person file sharing can only be stopped by getting rid of the Internet entirely.
27 days ago #
I have to agree with you Matthew, I get the impression that he’s almost like a teenager out to impress someone without being fully aware of the technology he’s talking about. If an author were to libel someone in a book, but sell a million of those books, would every person who bought a book be brought to court and sued, or would the author be sued for libel? What these laws propose to do is punish everyone who even visits a library that stocks some of these books by blocking access to it.
A site such as YouTube cannot possibly vet the thousands of hours of video uploaded every minute so there will be breaches of copyright. If this law is passed all Irish internet users may, and legally should, find access to sites such as YouTube blocked, and thats just the tip of the iceberg.
If such a groundbreaking law is to be passed the very least we can ask is that there is a broad debate on it, and that it involve experts in the field – and not the usual “experts” who turn out to be interested parties, however well meaning Seán Sherlock may be he seems to know very little about IT and the working of the internet. I understand a similar proposal came before the UK parliment and after an investigation it was decided that any laws would be futile.
This is the crux of the matter. As things stand the internet is free, nobody owns it but there are things on it, copyrighted material, that shouldn’t be there, but stopping it is nigh impossible. Its like having a fence around an orchard with very nice fruit. They will be stolen. The solution? Build more fences. It simply won’t work, as long as the fruit is desireable they’ll still be stolen and this is what happens on the internet, as some sites are blocked or shut down any average teenager can get around it these days. It won’t hurt the pirates but it will hurt the average user and it will certainly hurt any potential IT economy looking at this mess.27 days ago #
People of Cork. Please do your best to make sure that this guy NEVER gets elected again in the next election
27 days ago #
Hear hear Stephen.
Sherlock is a dunkey if he thinks this should be pushed through. Typical langer.
27 days ago #
He is a complete moron. He hasn’t got a clue. As a member of his constituency (albeit not for much longer) I’ve been trying to get answers from him. Nothing of course. These people don’t give a damn about the people of this country. Honestly I’m so angry with the lot of them I dont think I could be held responsible for my actions if I met one of them.
27 days ago #
sherlock you gombeen
27 days ago #
Stephen Donnelly independent TD brought this up as well on Tuesday. We need more independents !
http://www.stephendonnelly.ie/from-the-chamber/questions-the-sopa-legislation/
Sorry Jimbo, that reply was for Anne below….
27 days ago #
Fair play to the ONE Independent TD who acted on appeals from her constituents and was true to her word.
No one in attendance at todays “debate” either. Quite the disappointment. I think its clear that Independents and not parties are the way to go when/if next we vote. Party politics is not what is best for the people, its what’s best for the people in power. Though ACTA Im assured is much worse and thats already signed into law by our public servants also. A dark day for internet freedom.27 days ago #
Don’t be suprised he is being told by Europe to sign it
27 days ago #
i just cant understand why he cant see the amount of opposition there is too this …is it that fucking stupid ….even the senate in the US put it back to review the whole issue …why must our TDs always want to jump to their own tune… get real sherlock ….open ur eyes to whats going on
27 days ago #
It always amazes me when people have such a issue with a politician & say things like “People of Cork, don’t elect Sean Sherlock…” etc etc. If you have such an issue with the guy, organise a few friends to go down & canvass in Cork to canvass for an alternative candidate (or against Sean Sherlock directly!)…
This is something these #Occupy have failed to grasp; still can’t understand the madness of their position of actively encouraging people not to vote!!
To quote “The West Wing”:
President Bartlett: “There’s a promise I ask everyone who works here to make: Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful and committed citizens can change the world. Do you know why?”
Will: “It’s the only thing that ever has…”Get canvassing if you have an issue. Otherwise, stop bitching.
are you ryan tubridys mate
27 days ago #
Does this mean we can’t ‘tape’ songs off the radio anymore to make mix-tapes for our other halves? Aw man… I suppose it doesn’t matter really, Tony Fenton keeps talking over the ends of the songs anyway. And my machine keeps chewing the tapes. Better get me old trusty biro out…
27 days ago #
Sorry but I’ve been away for awhile. Why is it stupid to protect copyright law? What are peoples concerns?
27 days ago #
Go and read something
All I’m reading here is outrage and insults without anything substantial to back it up.
I mean go and do some research – inform yourself online while you still can
27 days ago #
This legislation is not to protect copyright law. It’s to protect the legacy supply and demand business model of some of the most profitable industries on the planet.
27 days ago #
Eventually they won’t need a warrant to check everything you look up on the Internet. Say bye bye to your civil liberties.
27 days ago #
Do gach bó a lao, do gach leabhar a cóip agus do gach amhrán a mp3.
27 days ago #
Lads, would ye look at the amount of anger this stuff is causing! Is it not clear that we need to stand up and fight back!? The Irish people have been hammered on the head for far too long between crippling taxes used to pay off debts none of us incurred and shady politicians with their lies, secret handshakes and brown envelopes!! This is one one strike too far, it’s a strike against our right to freedom of expression and it’s time we took action!
27 days ago #
so did Ireland just sign an agreement in Japan #ACTA that forces all the things seansherlock promised in the dail wouldn’t happen in .ie
27 days ago #
here are some emails addresses to use:
27 days ago #
Ha, you have to love this guy Sherlock. Not dissimilar legislation has been delayed by the United States Senate due to fears over the ramifications that it may have, and over its largely detrimental potential. Meanwhile Sherlock swaggers around the corridors of ineptitude with a sort of, ‘my way of the high way bucko’ small town sheriff attitude, the latest poster boy for the Government’s ‘who gives a sh*t what the people want anyway” policy. The only policy they seem determined or capable of implementing with any degree of success or consistency.
When questioned he then dribbles out some fancy talk stating that “Nobody wants to limit the freedoms of the internet – it is counter-intuitive,” and that we “We live in a democracy.”
What a complete tool, “we live in a democracy” F*ck off Sherlock, who seems to have mastered the art of replacing well thought out answers to questions with meaningless platitudes! It’s so typical of the Oireachtas legislative process and the meaningless wittering echoing around sheltered workshop called the Dail that somehow passes for debate.
“Jaysus, tis a bit vague, even the auld Yanks stalled it, maybe we should see what all the fuss is about” – “Aragh feck the auld Yanks, what do they know?, we’re not in LA or down town New York Sean, we’re in Dublin, t’will be grand, and sure anyways, who even listens to let alone enforces the bloody law around here anyways?”
27 days ago #
Might I suggest everyone spends 5 minutes looking at this great Video on ACTA which explains everything in terms we can all understand? A far as I understand Seán Sherlocks legislation does pretty much the same thing here in Ireland. Not that it matters when ACTA comes into force.
27 days ago #
Twitter – offices in Dublin
Facebook – offices in Dublin
Google (YouTube) – offices in Dublin
What does he think these companies are going to do if this b*llshit passes? Stay in Dublin?? I don’t think so!
Never mind Wikipedia, eBay (pretty much image of things for sale are copyright) boards.ie reddit any damn site you can think of will contain something or links to something that is copyright!
Stupid f*ucking moron c*nt should think before he tries to pass ridiculous legislation.27 days ago #
Ignore the interventions of some of the biggest technology employers in the country. Good start by a Minister for ‘Innovation’. Is it any wonder the business climate is black.
27 days ago #
I must admit to being quite puzzled by this amendment. According to an Irish Times article published on the 19th of December, the Minister is bringing in this legislation at the request of EMI Ireland and its Chief Executive, Willie Kavanagh who warned that they would take legal action if
“is not ruling out going ahead with this if the statutory order does not give companies such as his a clear right to seek court injunctions against internet service providers that allow access to music and video piracy websites”
Full article published on 19th of December 2011 by Barry O’Halloran: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/1219/1224309259318.html
However, a recent European Court Ruling from 24th November ,seems to me to legislate exactly against
“the imposition of an injunction by a national court which requires an internet service provider to install a filtering system with a view to preventing the illegal downloading of files ”
which seems to be what EMI is requesting.
Full European court ruling: http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2011-11/cp110126en.pdf
Can someone enlighten me why the Minister wishes to being into law this amendment which will directly contravene this ruling by the European Court of Justice? Is the Minister in fact aware of this ruling? Or is it a case the Minister for Research failed to do his?
27 days ago #
B Mac: Naturally I can’t speak for Sherlock – and I’m woefully worried about the potential impact of this move – but here’s how I would explain it:
Basically if you’re caught in a hard place between the ECJ and the Commission, you take your orders from the commission. The Commission can sue Ireland (exactly as it is doing over the septic tank thing) if the European court says it hasn’t been following the directive. The ECJ, on the other hand, can only fine a member state if its laws are directly contradictory with a directive.
It is, frankly, the Commission’s problem if the ECJ says its rules are unworkable. If I were Ireland, I would therefore follow the Commission’s rules and bring in a law allowing injunctions, satisfying the need to follow the EU directives, knowing full well that anyone trying to seek an injunction will be told that the ECJ forbids it.
You therefore set up a row between the Commission and the ECJ – which is where this discrepancy arose in the first place – while avoiding any fines, and walking away without any blood on your hands at all.
27 days ago #
That’s a line of reasoning that would make Joseph Heller proud. Is it any wonder people feel alienated from the EU!
an good explaination as always bit, optimistic, but in the meantime the music industry takes ISPs to court whether they lose or settle, they agree to site by stie blocking of atleast the most infamous sites and also inihibit smaller companies trying to push the boundaries of innovation, and creating a new normal for primary legislation to be based on, inhibiting the web
27 days ago #
Just as a point of note: I’m going to guess that many of the people railing against this legislation in their comments also voted in favour of the successive referenda which gave the EU the power to impose legislation on our government. Our politicians are only too happy to “play bigger boys made us do it card” and you lot handed that card to them.
A hearty dose of STFU is in order for many here I think.
Bit of an assumption there Oisin, but don’t let the truth get in the way of a good yarn. Keep on guessing. Pesky facts are just that right? I never voted for an EU referendum, so make sure to save a supersized porton of STFU for yourself too buddy.
27 days ago #
Check this out :
https://sites.google.com/site/seansherlocktdsopa/Add New Comment
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