well said.

I agree with you completely, I love the idea behind trade unions and would defend them to the death if that is what they still were, but what they have become reviles me more even than the TDs or the bankers combined because at least we never had and want or reason to trust those slimy creatures!

Which businesses were they? That’s some claim to make, so stand over it.

Do they not see any contradiction in their position?
Agree to spunk a load of money on vanity stimulus schemes and we’ll agree to tighter fiscal disipline.
Someone needs to let them know that social partnership is over and they’re not running the country anymore (The troika are)

he better do it soon, i hear there’s to be grave turning metres installed

Tara, have you read the novel “Animal Farm” ? ’2 legs good, 4 legs bad’ springs to mind… SIPTU demand dues from all their members. The leadership pay themselves what can only be described as extortionate wages for doing sweet FA. They are so corrupted and would sell their mothers for a shilling.
Yeats said it perfectly in 1913 during the great lockout….
“What need you, being come to sense,
But fumble in a greasy till
And add the halfpence to the pence
And prayer to shivering prayer, until
You have dried the marrow from the bone;
For men were born to pray and save;
Romantic Ireland’s dead and gone,
It’s with O’Leary in the grave.”

I am sorry I can not comment ,politely . SIPTU are traitors . Rat face leader of SIPTU,you are finished . How much have they paid you ? Go on tell us the deal you got . You traitorous specimen of human life

Couldn’t agree with you more Martin! SIPTU are a disgrace to everything they supposedly represent! They couldn’t care less about the ordinary working person! SIPTU are no more than a gang of thieves!

More of your lies Frank, pretty bored with them now, why don’t you create some new ‘facts’? You idiot.

More lies from Frank. Do you generate these yourself or buy them in bulk?

Irish trains are pretty shit.

Desmond spitting out the bile again. Ironic considering all your preaching about responding to reasoned arguments with reason.

Which part of what Frank said is factually incorrect and why?

how on earth did she get elected? im glad i dont live in that constituency, they must be always banging into things and falling over there…

Agree completely, horrible specimen but Ranelagh, Rathgar, Milltown, some serious money has been there and these gimps vote for their own sadly.

The caption over is the picture is very apt…Tit for Tat…

thats an excellent questioni

actually, just an ad on, it was the same with the pat rabbitte piece yesterday, serious questions and misgivings of users not being addressed.

Sorry Sinead , Did you not like my comparison of that rat of a man to human life ? You will be sitting on your erase button all day if that is the case ! Or maybe it is because I named The Fe**er. I am so mad . Erase away . I have to go now.

I absolutely agree with you Cal. My comment was erased tho ….. But we know who we mean . That Fe**in’ Rat.

Basically europe are blackmailing the irish state: if you vote yes you can play with the 800 billion pot of gold (esm) if you vote no and the treaty is ratified anyway you get nothing and still we can set your taxes and changes parts of your constitution. We are but technocrats to europe big two – franc/german. Blackmail nothing more nothing less! Do yourselves a favour and vote NO!

The haters are back spamming almost every thread on Journal.ie. Comparing people to animals and throwing about defamatory allegations and foul abuse is all they have to offer to reasoned argument. Such haters cannot be surprised when their constant bile and vilification results in comments being taken down.

@ Desmond, maybe if labour were true to their mandate and their oft spouted political ideals, and maybe if they made good on their pre-election promises instead of selling our country to appease european technocrats and financial corporations, such bile and vilifacation would not be necessary. Just a thought.

Bile and villification in response to reasoned argument is never “necessary”, Noddy. All I see from the haters on here is the most ugly abuse directed at those they disagree with. That is not reasoned debate, that’s the howl of the mob. Journal.ie is right to rein in the worst of it.

@ Ollie…I agree its pure blackmail…but even if we toss this out, it still goes ahead with or without us. What I don’t understand is that we’re outside this golden circle and we default…doesn’t the whole Euro come down? So rather than bullying us into it..they should be trying to entice us. No doubt a big announcement on the promisary notes for Anglo will come soon,,,

I didn’t say it was Desmond, I suggested it maybe a backlash from being lied to and sold a pup for short-term political and personal gain, at the expense of our childrens’ futures. In which case it’s more than justified in my mind.

Desmond
What reasoned arguments are you talking about . What is reasonable about treachery and being sold out for a pot of gold . Yes Rats the whole lot of them .I know that you as a member of labour will not see this but it is not lost on the rest of us. SIPTU have sold their soul and done a deal with the DEVIL. Is this ok with you ? And what other threads are you talking about , Put your comments on them, I will answer you there too. . I am sick to the back teeth of people passing comments and remarks indirectly at me or about me . So man up Desmond ,I WILL answer you .

OK Noddy, so how would YOU stabilise the State’s finances and refloat the economy?

I think you’ve made my point for me, Susie. If all you’ve got is hate then there’s not much for us to say to each other.

Desmond… i posted this earlier …. This is how i would propose stablising the economy… Short, sharp shock, but this is what the country needs.

“how much of the 15 billion euro that we as a country have in terms of our fiscal deficit is made up of interest repayments to the EU on loans that belonged originally to German and French banks. Are we not spending in the region of 4-5 billion in interest rate repyaments each year that we dont have? Our true budget deficit is less than 11 billion euro. If we capped all public sector wages at 100k per year and all publicly funded pensions at 60k per year, we automatically have another 1.3 billion euro saved. If we introduced a 3rd PAYE tax rate on earning over 100k, we would bring in an additional 750-800 million per year. If we introduced a 2% wealth tax on all assets of citizens of Ireland over 1 million euro, we would bring in an additional 7 billion per year. Add all that up, and we are nearly home. But in true FFg/Labour/FF fashion, all these measures are ignored because they only affect the wealthiest in our society, and those that can best afford to pay it. This fiscal compact is a joke. It does nothing for Ireland. We can eliminate our budget deficits using the proposed items above. They are fair and sustainable. It leaves the rest of the people in a position that they can start spending again, and hence grow the economy. We need to vote NO so that the government is forced to introduce these measures.”

Desmond, you can’t, Ireland need to default, leave the Euro and start again. Massive cuts everywhere, bring those who didn’t live up to their responsibilities to court and fix the system.
What we sure as hell don’t need – is what this union is asking for – more off the books pay off’s in order to swing a vote the way the government wants. Typical Ireland in action here, the unions happy to sell the country off for an extra few quid. Sad.

@ tony skillington i agree 100% with you tony. Wasnt the eu in the beginning created equal? Why are big countries blackmailing and bullying smaller nations. We need to address this issue in the near future.

Does anyone know the position on constitutional changes within this treaty?

I do not hate , but I am not a coward . I do not twist words to suit my self . Desmond have a nice evening . I have to go out for a while now. Foot ball training !

@ Desmond: It’s very interesting how you decry ‘defamation’, ‘bile’ and ‘vilification’, and make a case for the virtues of reasoned argument on one thread, and then liberally throw about the epithet ‘Trot’ on every other.

@Dietrich … Trot is short for Trotskyite. The ULA comprises two Trotskyite parties. You already know this I am sure.

@Desmond, would that be the same as saying the facist party when we refer to FFg/Labour?

@Cal … The last time a “short, sharp shock”, as you describe it, was applied to an ailing economy was in the 1980s in Russia under Boris Yeltsin. the result was a collapse in the economy, widespread and enduring poverty (you might remember pictures of pensioners selling their possessions on snowy Moscow streets) and the ushering in of a profoundly autocratic government. The problem with “short, sharp shock” economic policy is that here’s nothing short about it.

I think Paul says it best when he says we should start again with all the massive economic dislocation and collapse in the public finances that default, exiting the Eurozone and massive cuts would bring. Cal calls for the application of the short, sharp shock doctrine to economic policy and the public services, and Paul tells us what the result of such recklessness would be. Having allowed Fianna Fail to trash the economy, Cal and Paul would have us trash it all over again.

@Desmond, the last time it was tried was in Iceland 5 years ago and it worked a treat there. Oh yeah, they also put the Politicians in prison for trying to sell the countries sovereignty.

@ Desmond. Yes of course, and I’m sure your usage of the term is not loaded in any way.

The trouble with the way you’re talking Desmond is you sound like something has been fixed.

Paul Mallon . I was only thinking that myself …. It all seems too ”tidy”.

Hi Chris,

This is the first comment from you posted on this article. If you continue to have any technical problems, send me a mail on sinead@thejournal.ie

Cheers,
Sinead

thanks Sinead

There is often a technical problem on the journal where it sends you to the login page when you try to comment, even if you already logged in.

Pity your concern for stuff like bribery doesn’t extend to blackmail, for example the blackmail clause your party oversaw being added to the fiscal compact treaty. Do you not consider waving access to the ESM under the Irish voters noses conditional on a ‘yes’ vite to be a form of bribery David?

Spoken like a true FFg who do not do bribery or corruption… Of course we are going to criticise this man and his change in stance on the compact. Its such a dramatic turnaround on policy, it inevitably leads to the question… why? and given his history on tax payer funded slush funds, we are legitimately entitled to be extrenely skeptical…. Do you not suspect anything here yourself, or are you still following Il Duce blindly, and believe Denis O’Brien appeared on the NYSE stage after climbing up the magic beanstalk???

You can’t allow countries to spend recklessly and then get access to bailout funds paid for by Ireland and other countries.

How would we like it if in the future Greece again overspent without sanctions and then dipped into a bailout fund partly paid for by the Irish tax payer?

Put the shoe on the other foot for a second.

@David
Care to explain why banking corporations can spend/lend recklessly and get access to bailout funds paid for by Ireland and other countries?

@David, how much of the 15 billion euro that we as a country have in terms of our fiscal deficit is made up of interest repayments to the EU on loans that belonged originally to German and French banks. Are we not spending in the region of 4-5 billion in interest rate repyaments each year that we dont have? Our true budget deficit is less than 11 billion euro. If we capped all public sector wages at 100k per year and all publicly funded pensions at 60k per year, we automatically have another 1.3 billion euro saved. If we introduced a 3rd PAYE tax rate on earning over 100k, we would bring in an additional 750-800 million per year. If we introduced a 2% wealth tax on all assets of citizens of Ireland over 1 million euro, we would bring in an additional 7 billion per year. Add all that up, and we are nearly home. But in true FFg/Labour/FF fashion, all these measures are ignored because they only affect the wealthiest in our society, and those that can best afford to pay it. This fiscal compact is a joke. It does nothing for Ireland. We can eliminate our budget deficits using the proposed items above. They are fair and sustainable. It leaves the rest of the people in a position that they can start spending again, and hence grow the economy. We need to vote NO so that the government is forced to introduce these measures.

“You can’t allow countries to spend recklessly and then get access to bailout funds paid for by Ireland and other countries.
How would we like it if in the future Greece again overspent without sanctions and then dipped into a bailout fund partly paid for by the Irish tax payer?
Put the shoe on the other foot for a second.”

lol – really?? that’s what you’ve got as an argument?

But it’s OK – SIPTU want the government to keep the stimulus off the books, it doesn’t count then – we’re graaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand.