The person who wrote this report was a judge. I think that qualifies him. Did you even read it? He praised the work of most of the wardens he spoke to, but rightly condemned the actions of a small minority of staff who could be termed bullies.

Marlena yes he is a Judge. Does sending people to prison all of a sudden make him an expert on then inner workings of a prison? Would a Prison Officer be qualified to write a report on the inner workings of the Judicary because they are in court everyday? The Judge visits these prisons a few times a year and spends roughly a couple of hours. And suddenly knows everything there is to know about how to manage disruptive and violent inmates!

You can only do what you can do, with resources that you have; prison officers can only follow the policies that are laid down by management, etc.
I doubt the author of this report was being critical of prison officers, who can only work within the system that is there.

That said, the system that exists may not be a very good one and this report clearly shows things need to change,for everyone involved, including the prison officers. Why should prison officers have to deal with youngsters in the way that they do, its probably because they have no other choice at the minute.

I’d have to say that the victims of the original crime perpetrated by most of these inmates wouldn’t use the word ‘children’ to describe them.

That’s not the point he’s making, go back and read the report. And he’s not some lad who has walked in off the street, he is a judge.

I know who he is and I did read the report, he makes many points in it, one of them being that stripping a person and putting them in confinement is a violation of their rights which is what I’m talking about? I stand by what I said, anyone who presents a threat to another person or themselves should to be confined until they are calmer and if this judge thinks that’s wrong I’d like to know how he would propose to deal with it.

There is a simple “excuse” for not putting people who have committed non violent crimes into prison – prisons don’t work. More reasons include recidivism rates in Ireland run at over 80% and the cost of imprisoning someone is extremely high, yet the victim will bear the financial cost for any damage done to their property and belongings.

Abuse??? 70% are using drugs in some shape or form….no wonder they have to be strip searched forcibly, it’s not as if they are voluntarily going to hand over their little stash & then they complain about it…give me a break…there’s a fine line between breaching human rights & these thugs taking advantage of the system to make life easier for themselves inside.

If St Pats was the solution recidivism rates in 16 to 24 year olds would not be so high. This approach doesn’t work, if the objective is actually a safer society it has not and most likely will not be achieved.

The Baltic states are among countries with the lowest recidivism rates and the most humane incarceration systems.

I treat children fine as do most Irish people.
You obviously don’t understand or have to on a daily basis deal with the kind of “children” who get put in saint pats.
Just for the record the majority of people put there are over 18 anyway which makes them young adults

The point is to try separate the teenagers from that environment , there are approx 30 detained in st Pats who are 17 years of age.

Without going into details, John, I’ve dealt with plenty of such children, and am none the worse for it. That is why I reiterate the need for any “majority of Irish people” who applaud the disgraceful revelations about St Patrick’s to remember our recent history, and lose the mentality that formed the industrial schools and their legacy.

I won’t go into specifics either but my guess is you work in some kind of support role for these youngsters which I’m not against them getting if theres any hope of them changing their ways but to be sent to saint pats in the first place they’d have to have been before the courts for years and chances are committed offences ranging from assault, mugging, burglaries drug dealing etc. so maybe you haven’t come off any worse for their behaviour but I can tell you for sure that plenty of others have!

Thankfully someone with a bit of logic and insight! @Aleo I was beginning to despair reading these comments.

Do onto others as you would have done onto you, these youngsters are not adults and are meant to be looked after by the state.
Or to quote a famous phrase “The future which we hold in trust for our own children will be shaped by our fairness to other people`s children.” – Its no wonder the country is going down the toilet then.

Most children who fall under state care in are not treated fine, they are treated anything but fine and almost every HIQA report that has been published with regard to children and state care acknowledges this fact, people pretend that some young people are just bad but that is not the case. Very little changes, it seems we as a people haven’t changed that much despite report after report; yet some people expect these young people to turn out fine, even when they are subjected to disgraceful treatment by these who heve been entrusted with their care.
Children learn to treat people, by the way they are treated themselves, and we as people are very well versed at ignoring the plight of children who are being neglected, abused and even worse.

For example, in October of last year an investigation into Gleann Alainn Special Care Unit , seperate to the HIQA reports, was ordered folllowing the absconsion of 2 young girls from this unit. Almost 1 year later and this investigation has still not been completed, I think it is, at this very moment the subject of a legal review, costing us all plenty of money.
As far as I am aware, 3 investigations into the events surronding that particular absconsion have now taken place with little or know outcome. These investigation all cost money and the government can be seen to be doing something to investigate what happens to children, but its just lip service, responsiblity and accountability are rarely attached to anyone.

As for 18 year olds and over commiting crimes for years before they entered institutions like St Pats, the help they needed to stop commiting crimes couldn’t have been there. They would need to be criminals from a very young age to be commiting crimes for years, many young children in this country are need of help but their plight is ignored;
that’s not an excuse for the way many these young people act but it does go some way to explaining the behaviour.

Please could you expand on your statement that the State will take children from unfit parents and put them (the children) in prison?? Do you realise how ridiculous this is?

Read the legislation in regards to the referendum, The state will have the power to remove children from families they deem unfit.

What is a unfit parent? That is between the state and the judges.

Where will kids go?

Into the states care.

How well are the state doing looking after children already?

Look at St Patricks for an example. Just because its a prison dosent mean the state isnt responsible.

You have completely avoided the question so I’ll ask again – do you realise how ridiculous your statement was that the State will take children from unfit parents and put the children in prison – that is what you said.

Bullshit. Unfit parents should have their children removed from their so called care. I daresay if the majority of lads currently in remand in St Pat’s had been removed from their parents at the right age, they would currently not be residing there!!

I think you missed the point as it being a “minority of staff”. You comment seems to more of a dig a public service workers than anything else and as one, I take great offense to your comment. If front line staff get moved (say to a different hospital unit in my case) that
directly impacts patient care. Hence why we “bring in the unions”.