more important we grow a pair..

We get on fine with them. Love your neighbours, keep your hedges high.

“a shambolic and impotent day”.

Yes its very important we get on with the Brits but the commonwealth wouldn’t make those ties any stronger!

The top five commonwealth nations/entities are Britain,India,Canada,Australia and New Zealand.We already have great trading links with them all (slighlty less great with India maybe!)..so joining the commonwealth would not be anything other than symbolic!!!

Apart from the above nations we would be a member of a commonwealth with countries like Bangladesh (Human rights nightmare), Brunei (an absolute monarchy), Jamaica (gun crime capital) Kenya (unstable) Kiribati, Lesotho, Malawi,Maldives, Malta ,St. Kitts and Nevis Saint, Lucia ,St. Vincent and the Grenadines Samoa and Mauritius (tiny insular economies) Malaysia (unstable politically).Then there is Pakistan ( complete mess!), Rwanda (seriously divided society/post genocide) Sierra Leone (Worlds poorest country??),South Africa and Sri Lanka (corrupt,poor and violent nations).

We may have problems but we would be joining a club of serious problems..I know I’ve generalised but economically we need the commonwealth like a hole in the head..we have the EU and that’s bad enough…in fact we need to be part of less clubs and gain more sovereignty!It would do nothing for us!!And whether people accept it or not Queen Elizabeth II is head of the commonwealth and I dont think deep down Irish people would want a British monarch as head of anything they are apart of!!

they would? what do you base that on? do you know them all?

He reminds them of their past and their (large) part in the troubles when they try to take the moral high-ground. It is entirely justified when he does.

And this isn’t twitter, no hash-tags here please.

All the major parties have had a troubled past in this country which involved violence. Cant single out one.

As a voter who would prefer them to actually deal with Sinn Fein’s opinions (democratically elected opinions) on their own merits or faults rather than reverting to the schoolyard rhetoric they constantly spew, I’m not sure “justified” is the term I’d use.

Andy if you’re employed by The Journal as a moderator, I’d point you to The Journal’s use of hash tags for referencing related stories.

If you’re not, pipe down.

#nohashtags

Andy, taxes and the troubles are completely unrelated issues. Every time comments like that are made in the Dail it’s to deflect from the real questions they (politicians) don’t want to answer, nothing to do with Sinn Feins past.

Andy: Should Inda remind Michael Martin that Dev got Collins killed every time he asks a question?

Whether he agrees with Sinn Fein or not they are elected representatives of the people of Ireland and he should treat them with respect and respond to their questions .
There is not a political party in this country without blood on their hands if you go back into their history so his remarks to Sinn Fein TD’s is in no way justified . It is childish and unprofessional and an insult to those who elected them

“He reminds them of their past and their (large) part in the troubles when they try to take the moral high-ground. It is entirely justified when he does.”

Andy, i have never heard Kenny do any of the above to the people who started and perpetuated the troubles. The only people he seems to attack with his lob-sided uneducated understanding of the troubles, are SF …
Like other commenters have already outlined to you, FFG/FF/Labour only use the North as an issue, in order to deflect from current affairs… and the reason for that is so obvious … If you dont know the right answer, or if you want to hide the truth, then deflection is the best form of defense… Right Andy?

sinn feins major problem is that some of their front bench were involved in the troubles and no matter if it was justified or not, there will always be this high horse morons that like to say ‘well you did this’ like a big child to deflect from having to deal with any questions, it would be in sfs best interests to lose the likes of gerry adams and let the younger members who were not involved in the troubles take over, what would they say then? btw i am not an sf supporter but it makes my blood boil when they ask a pertinent question and get this ridiculous type of response, get off yer high horses fg,lab,ff all your parties were involved in the same type of thing in the past and yer all a bunch of crooks anyway

#andypipedownandgooutside

I’ve never seen anyone leave so much crap on any message board in my life. Please don’t ask me to quote what you said because I’d be here till next week.

Andy Duggan = troll

#noandy

Wonder did Wnda take time today to remind the Brits of their very large part in the troubles as well. If he so upset about what happened in6 counties I’m sure he must have. And I’m elected pope over next few days…….

What does “just saying” mean?

“The Nazis also received democratic votes in 1933″ i know, its mad after what happened then and now fg are in power here…when will people learn?

Sham it’s quite disgusting to use the deaths of two young boys as a political football for kicking Sinn Fein. Their parents have tried to move on, maybe you should too.

*it’s à la, pretentious, moi?

By the way I wouldn’t be in favour of rejoining the Commonwealth because I don’t see any benefit either politcially or economically to Ireland from such a move. History is the least of my concerns in this matter.

Leaving my opinion aside the amount of ignorance about the what the Commonwealth is today, it’s structures and who runs what is also pretty obvious. Again perhaps people should go and learn about something before they rush to comment.

I agree it’s not going to happen, but it’s rather a shame, as there’d be no downsides in practice, and quite a few benefits. Not least of those is that Ireland could compete at the Commonwealth Games.

So eh.. FF then yeah? or would you prefer SF.. Its astonishing the lack of institutional memory we have, no need to learn the lessons of the past the lessons of now are obviously far more pertinent

Padraig.
Where have I ever said ff or sf ?????
I wouldn’t pass water on ff if they were on fire.
As for sf,I have to admit that I would give serious consideration but have not ever said I would vote for them.

Well then Mike, who do you see taking over? which was the intent of my comment.. In 2 years time in your opinion who will be in power?

Hi Padraig.
Not quite sure yet but rest assured I will be researching every availible option .
The main problem in Ireland is that up to now the choice is very limited but the need for new blood will spawn new and hopefully exciting parties.

Oh yes this mystical new party with new politicians who have no political experience is going to suddenly appear over the next 2 years. It’s going to save the day by finding that forest with all the money trees that FG & Labour have hidden away out of spite for us. And this mystical new party is also going to wipe out our negative equity, property taxes & is going to magically find the money to sort out our health system too. Ooooh I can’t wait for this new party…

ha ha fair play good one

Ann and Barry…..classic!

who gets payed the most David r Enda

That maybe thatchers view & I hate fg but Dr Fitzgerald was a very bright man & a man of great integrity & I think a history class would be no harm before you make that type of comment. In years to come history will show Dr Fitzgerald to be a great leader & patriot. Thatcher feared Haughey. Are you suggesting he was a good leader.

Sure didn’t they support the Germans, back in the day and kissing their behinds again! Ask the people, If they want to rejoin or not?

Bright comment from someone who clearly has little understanding of modern history and a serious difficulty expressing himself in writing without being just vulgar. Ah well it takes all sorts!

Fitzgerald a man of integrity? Well he definitely fooled some of us.

As for his political record, just remember Leo the lip’s ultimate insult to Cowen: ‘You’re no Seán Lemass, you’re no Jack Lynch and you’re no John Bruton. You’re a Garret FitzGerald. You’ve tripled the national debt, you’ve effectively destroyed the country.’

Peter, the man behind the egg! When you speak the truth, it hurts someone!

Rubbish comment

great comment

Or the collective maturity to just move on even, leaving the inferiority complex behind.

The people doing all that are a result of the British you clown. The colour of the flag is the hint.

As usual it’s our fault and we’re not mature? Some complex.

I dont feel insulted

Joining the commonwealth would put us into a trade group with its 54 member states.. Where i too look at it on a historical slant i am much more interested in today, if we let history control out diplomatic and economic decisions today we wont survive.

“The Commonwealth of Nations is a voluntary association of independent sovereign states, each responsible for its own policies, consulting and co-operating in the common interests of their peoples and in the promotion of international understanding and world peace.”

“trade with another Commonwealth member has been shown to be a third to a half more than with a non-member”

That’s because you’re cheap dave.

As for the commonwealth. Would we have to return to the imperial measurement system as well?

That’s pretty much the mentality that has gotten our country to the wonderful position it’s in today.

Don’t know about that, we got a lot out of Europe for nothing, bar a few hundred thousand cod

And you’re now in debt to well beyond your neck, Pablo.

wrong, we got nothing for nothing, we sold our market share hence the farmers being paid not to grow food, we were paid to not compete and like the fools we were and still are, we agreed

Selectively forgetting about the insanely large sums of money we were given ( not loaned ) to improve our infrastructure ( eg roads ). As for the farmers, seaside was and is a ridiculous idea, but you’re rewriting history if you’re claiming that the farmers of Ireland collectively refused to take EEC/EU subsidies and only did so when forced at gunpoint.

Short memories lead to repeated mistakes.

@ Pablo – if you think that getting money for nothing is a good thing, then do you agree that, by the same logic, all TDs and government ministers are fully deserving of and entitled to their salaries and expenses. Maybe we should let them give themselves a raise.

Getting something for nothing and not realising you’ll have to pay later is pretty much the blueprint for gombeen and gangster politics, something we’ve had enough of over the last thirty years.

Realising there’s no such thing as a free lunch is a step along the way towards being a grown-up and self-respecting nation.

Ever hear of the expression tongue in cheeks lads?

Or cheek even

who said they refused? i dont know where u got that idea from, if you believe we got the better deal because we gave up entire industries for a few roads and college places then im afraid it is you that is rewriting history

No such thing as a free lunch there Pablo…..

Tongue in cheeks…..keep it clean pease there!

@ RP – You said that we got nothing from the EEC/EU, but we’ve been collecting grants for infrastructure and farming for donkey’s years.

My point on farming and set-aside subsidies was clear enough, I thought. The subsidies were not forced on the Irish farmer, as you presented it. The Irish farmers demanded subsidies. I’m quite sure the

Competitiveness in Irish farming wasn’t destroyed by the evil “EU”, it was destroyed by the Farmers unions demanding subsidies above and beyond what would benefit the industries. That’s on the Unions, not on the EU.

Connecting subsidies demanded by and received by Irish farmers to a plan of continental domination and Irish subjugation by those “evil foreigners” is a tad disingenuous, no?

Property Tax … Bondholders … special advisers … Judicial appointments … the Senate …cronyism in Irish politics …

To the red thumbs – explain why not ?

Explain how it would and give evidence?

How many died to get us out? This is like Stockholm syndrome..

Nobody died to leave the commonwealth, we left that only half a decade ago…

Made possible by brave young people that gave their lives for our right to independence.

It makes f all economic sense to rejoin.

Not to be disrespectful for those that gave their lives for independence but we could have left the commonwealth at that stage regardless of what they did if we had wanted.

Really? I highly doubt it, you forget we have f all rights to do anything, we were a lower form of life in their opinion.

@ Gerald. I think you have both your historical timeline and your definition of what the Commonwealth is a little mixed up. Why exactly died to facilitate Ireland leaving the Commonwealth ( as deferred from the British Empire, GB and the UK ) – None of the 4 entities above are the same, ie, they are not just different words for the same thing.

Thomas Downes, we left the Commonwealth in 1948 when we proclaimed the Republic.

2008?

Nikolas Koehler, Jimmy and all the other FFG bots on here tonight …
If you want a Queen as a figurehead of your country, then please … there are many many boats and planes departing each day.
How anyone can go running cap in hand after a family, that through no other act, other than being born, entitles them to that position beats me.
I hope none of you are Catholic, you cant ever marry anyone who is in line to the throne :D

@ Nikolas, my name is Gerard not Gerald and I have no such mistake in timeline or definition, you should know the the “Commonwealth” was set up directly due to changes in the British Empire, true Irish independence came upon leaving the Commonwealth, when we severed ties with the former empire. I never mentioned GB or UK, so I find it insulting for you presume to know what I would think or refer to. My comments are clear and I would say you are wrong as I know my timelines and definitions, thank you very much.

Dear oh dear, Cathal. Get your facts straight. Many of my posts here are decidedly anti-FG and anti-FF. Given a chance, I’d take the Troika’s side again the current and previous Irish government, and I’ve said so many times here.

What I have no time for are uninformed reductive “Four legs good, too legs bad” arguments and the belief in the fallacy that shouting loud enough and being faux-outraged enough is an acceptable replacement for actual facts and evidence.

In fairness lads, Koehler is not a Fg’er.

That’s the problem with an allegiance to a party, people find it hard to listen to all sides of the story.

Left, right, up, down doesn’t matter. I believe decisions should be based on debate, facts and timing.

APF

Half a century I think you’ll find (maths not a strong point)

@ Gerard – apologies about the name, I’ll blame spellcheck. Don’t take it personally, believe me, enough people misspell my name without having any agenda in doing so. It happens.

I’ll bring you back to your original comment, however, and my question to you: who exactly died in order to allow Ireland to leave the commonwealth? That was your claim, not mine. I’m just asking you to provide factual evidence for this claim.

I imagine Oz and Canada would be extremely insulted if the commonwealth was defined as a “continuity British Empire”. It’s not.

@Brendan Greene That’s my mistake, I didn’t think we left in 2008 :D

Half a decade???

Canada would have no problem with that. They’ve only just stopped signing GStQ every school morning over there.

The Commonwealth was created by the British Empire and although it’s not correct to fully identify it that way now, when we left the Commonwealth, it was seen as a severing of ties with Britain and the full decoration of Irish independence.

The lives given to enable us to become independent has no fixed timeline and I did not mention a time line lads so let it go. A lot of people died over hundreds of years so that we could experience independence and it’s a terrible insult to their sacrifice to suggest we have anything to do with the Commonwealth.

It’s bad enough that we handed over national sovereignty but we will fight in a very different way to gain that back. Sorry for the late reply, 6am start and what not.

Another silly comment

we would be better off out of the EU.but i dont think joining the commonwealth would be a great move.there is still too much distrust for many irish people when it comes to the british establishment.how about aligning ourselves with the BRIC countries.that is the future.

Yes our world class state of the art transport and communications links would serve us so well if we join a trading block with Brazil Russia India and China.

It is certainly worthy of debate. Personally I dont see a downside for rejoining.

Sure if we’re going to apply to join BRIC why not throw in an application to the United Federation of Planets while we are at it….

I agree Paul, as long as its the Irish Taoiseach that is the symbolic figurehead … I dont believe in Monarchies … basically they go against the thing called … wait fort it … Democracy.
Hope you agree with me Paul.

India is a republic and does not recognise the British Queen as head of state yet it remains a
member of the Commonwealth as do a number of othe countries that maintain their own monarchs.

Paul, seriously, read my comment again .. then Google who is the symbolic figurehead of the commonwealth.

Both Ireland and UK are officially equal member states in the EU so, as long as that remains, I can’t see any added benefit for us to rejoin the commonwealth.

If the UK left the EU, there might be an added benefit to us to be a member of both clubs…

How do normal people call for a new government this is getting ridiculous!!

@ Ciaran, comment of the week.

Not enough Trekkies on here for that…

How about we join USA

Id take advice from the devil himself before considering what Thatcher thought

Right and Thatcher did what in the 1980’s in England? you might find Thatcher’s opinion of Kenny, who is literally ruining his own political career fixing the mess that certain other parties had more than a hand in, may differ greatly to the one you think she may have.

The brain washing from the church went on long before the British left. The rest of your comment is fairly narrow too.

Yeah they just starved us during the famines… O_o lets not forget they exported food and demanded taxes during the famine! Not anti British and not pro church , but they did us no favours really!

So you’d harbor that resentment for the foreseeable future?

There is no reason why we couldn’t join, Mozambique and Rwanda are members but they were never part of Ge British empire. Surely as a small economically vulnerable country the more clubs we are a member of the better? Also think what the commonwealth games would do for our sporting standards

John, list out the actual benefits of joining, rather than just saying we should join… it might make a better debate.
Personally, i cant stomach monarchies (symbolic or otherwise). because symbolically, through birth rights alone, it automatically makes one family better than the rest …
What economic benefits would joining a common wealth bring? Some people mention Mozambique, yet the British lead the charge on having that country suspended … So, come on … really, what are the benefits?

That’s true. During the great lockout in 1913 Jim Larkin had arranged with the trade union people in England to send children across while the strikes were going on. The church preached against Catholic children being sent across in case they might be converted to Protestantism against their will. The Church was more interested in saving their souls than saving them from starvation.
It’s the centenary of the lockout and the start of the IT&GWU this year.I wonder will how and if it will be celebrated. My grandfather was one of the first to join the new IT&GWU.

Ah now Cathal like i said, one big plus would be access to the common wealth games, it would give our athletes exposure to a much higher standard of competitive sports, raising standards of sport here in Ireland. Technically the ROI was never a member, so we could potentially negotiate our terms in joining.
We would also join a union of 54 states, right across the globe, beyond Europe and be able to access trade negotiations with them, while maintaining our EU membership.

Don’t know about you, but I would prefer to live in a monarchy then a theocracy – something we were technically living in until 1996.

Can you not see the parallel here?
There’s money here on this country, just as there was food in the time of the famine.
The only difference is that people these days are suffering for Germans rather than Brits.
As my father often says, “We’re a bastard nation!!!”.

Good point Eileen. I must admit I am not a Catholic nor a Protestant nor a Scooby Doo ! Just Irish by heart. Let me get this In my experience since the British left Ireland in 1922, it remained part of the commonwealth. Irish business was protected. Before 1948 we had lots of different brand names of whiskey and Beer . After that most of them disappeared. We use to have more kind of whiskeys than Scotland Today it is joke. Ireland was doing well during the late 60s boom until 1972 . After joining the EEC in 1973, alot of Irish business went down the drain. It invested extremely hard for over 20 years with the EC who returned our favours on the late 90s that lead to a boom. Today it is all down the drain with paybacks cuts and bailouts leaving us in pain. Is this EU worth to us ? Remember they can speak our language, we can’t speak theirs. That’s one weakness. The Poles nearly smothered us years ago. So if Ireland is unable to keep up with the EU s bail outs and wants to pull out Who can lead them ? What if the UK pull out ? We are really living in an ape republic with most of our business sold to foreign investments. Thanks to FF. FF were never a Republican Party In their early years I would call them an extreme right wing Catholic party They did everything for Rome not Ireland. Remember in 1928 William the 3rd statue was blown up The IRA admitted they didn’t do it so who was it ? It s simple De Valera’s catholic Republican Party!

Not at all Ryan o, but lately some people make the comment we were better off under Britain and we certainly weren’t !

“If we never left..we wouldn’t have had the troubles”

So unless we are in the British empire, British soldiers will shoot us?
NI was in the UK and they still had the Troubles. We were in the BE before and we had famines, discrimination ans massacres.

Go back to bed.

Is there anything to be said for another mass?

Jakki, let me introduce you to internet troll.. Internet troll, this is jakki she is new to the internet go easy on her..

General gist.. dont feed the trolls, the more you do the more they have achieved, where your comment could have been relevant and on topic, possibly even insightful yet now it isnt and in correcting you neither is mine, congrats Andy you have achieved your goal.

On topic – Was this article written to incite some kind of debate, surely the headline should read “Kenny not in favor of Commonwealth, encourages Co-Operation” When did the journal become about the comments and not the news itself?