My father is a Dublin taxi driver and he often tells me that the black taxi drivers call the white drivers “white boy” and nothing happens to them but if a white taxi driver make a similar comment he’s in big trouble. Is it the case that only white people can be racist? If they really want an end to racism they have to remember that it works both ways.

Are you seriously comparing calling someone a “White Boy” and “Black Bastard” ? Really? It’s idiotic comments like thse that highlight how dangerously in denial this country is about its own rampant racism. It’s like the old adage, the only thing worse than an alcoholic is an alcoholic who doesn’t know he has a problem.

Of course I am because it would be idiotic not too and so would thinking that “white boy” is the only name that is used too insult white people. I have never said to a black person “black bastard” but I’ve been called “white boy” myself and I don’t like it. If you think its fine having other race’s calling you “white boy” then you’re the idiot.

Being ‘called something you don’t like’ doesn’t make it racist. Seriously, get a clue already.

Oh, and by the way, I specifically said “idiotic comment”, i.e. attacking the action and not attacking the person. In response, you call *me* an idiot, in your very first reply no less. I presume this is a harbinger of things to come whenever ‘certain groups of people’ have their [ridiculous] ideas being challenged. I do however find it absolutely hilarious just how many people actually “liked” your reply. Again, harbinger of things to come I suppose.

So that means I can call a black person “nigger” or a Middle eastern person a “Paki” and its ok? If you slag or harm someone of any ethnicity because they’re from a certain ethnic group, it’s racism.

Oh and by the way I didn’t call you an idiot, I just made a good assumption. :)

@ Joseph “Being ‘called something you don’t like’ doesn’t make it racist” Have you had a look at the suarez evra case lately?

I think “Paddy” is the preferred racial slur for Irish men.

Diego Attley.
I agree with you whole heartedly. Racism IS a two way street and is unacceptable.

Given that ‘whiteness’ is the dominant race here, and in most of the West, I would agree that ‘white boy’ does not carry the same cultural impact as the reverse. It’s not nice, but it’s not as discursively powerful.

So what is good for the goose is not good for the gander ??? Any form of racism is just not good . However I am tired of having to be an apologist for not being black too . I am white , I am Irish , I am tired .

Diego, sweetie, first of all, calling someone from the Middle East a “Paki” doesn’t make you a racist. It makes you someone who flunked out of Primary School geography.

Secondly, repeated insults don’t make your argument any stronger. People resorting to personal attacks suggest the impotence of their arguments.

Thirdly, it is saddening that you haven’t bothered to get a clue on this (nor has many luminaries on this thread bothered to either, unfortunately). So here goes nothing.

Being ‘called something you don’t like’ doesn’t make it racist. This really should be a simple enough concept. If an angry acquaintance calls you an Elbonian pink flying turtle and you don’t like it, your angry acquaintance isn’t [necessarily] being racist. That’s just name-calling. Confusing racism with simple name-calling isn’t just stupid, it makes a mockery of real and obvious racism which occurs on a regular basis (if you’re of a different race). Quite frankly, if you’re White, nobody expects you to understand how it’s like to be the puny 3% of the population that isn’t white. However you’re expected to take it seriously. You’re the majority. You’re the one with the (White) power. You’re *not* supposed to somehow deny that it exists, or try to suggest that it’s mutual and equal with nothing more than random anecdotes, and ignore the fact that “people of different races” are outnumbered 30:1 in Ireland. Either those people from racial minorities are some seriously fascist radical extremist characters, or (far more likely) your suggestion is deluded, denialist, ignorant, and utterly misguided.

And quite frankly, this denial that you’ve written, and with which so many have agreed with, it’s that garbage that prevents Ireland from actually taking this issue seriously. Be a grown-up about this already and deal with it instead of making up fantasies. Own up already and stop being afraid of what the mirror is showing you, ’cause what you’re doing is in fact facilitating racist as*holes into being racist as*holes, by continuously making up excuses for it.

On this issue, there are really only two camps: people who support racism, and people who oppose it. You, and everyone who agreed with your comment, fall in the latter. Scary.

First of all I was just using that as an example of what I’ve heard people say (and I bet you have too). Secondly what’s the difference if someone that insults me based on the colour of my skin when I’m a part of the majority and I insult someone based on the colour of their skin when they’re in a minority? None, it’s still racism. I personally think you’re train of thought is quite weird, do you think minorities deserve special attention then rest of the people in the country? Or do you want everybody to be equal? Also you know nothing about me. I lived in prodestant area of Belfast in the late eighties and I’m a catholic. So I know how it feels to be treated as second class to the majority.

Diego
Ignore Joseph Guindi. He is always the same with his posts . I understand where you are coming from.

Cheers Eileen.

I never said racial minorities needed special attention. I said that when someone who is a member of a racial minority and complains of poor treatment because of their race, you don’t know what it’s like to be a member of a racial minority so you should at least try to take what they say seriously, except that quite the opposite, you’re all tripping over yourselves into denying that there is a problem and flattering your nationalist egos (cheers to Eileen for a truly crass and blatant instance of that, and you even fell for it).

Furthermore, unless they’re seriously retarded, members of racial minorities KNOW THAT THEY ARE THE MINORITY. Most don’t rock the boat, they just want to go about their business in peace and be ignored.

Now take for example this marvellous incident which just happened:
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Racist-abuse-may-drive-me-out-of-Ireland-says-Pakistani-doctor—POLL-136870823.html

This was an unprovoked alcohol-fuelled racist attack on a highly skilled innocent foreign psychiatrist, a man recruited from overseas to heal the Irish sick (ironically, a specialist in drug addiction) and funded with taxpayers’ money. And now, this man is obviously thinking of leaving because he can’t deal with the rampant racism. Instead of the nightclub staff helping him they laugh at him and make fun of him. Now read the comments which, instead of sympathising with the VICTIM OF A RACIST ATTACK, virtually all either taunt him into leaving, or lead to random rabid rants about foreigners and illegal immigrants. Instead of seeing this person as a human being, these people see him as an undesirable because of his race and essentially say “good riddance”.

THIS IS RACISM.

Racism isn’t just about name calling, calling someone “Black Bastard” or the like. It isn’t just about being called a n*gger (which he isn’t, but there goes another proud owner of a Leaving Cert), it isn’t just about the attack because ‘he is a n*gger’, it’s the fact that everyone else stop looking at him as a human being and instead as a member of an undesirable race.

I hope that I have finally helped make clear what is racism and what isn’t. People who complain aren’t just complaining about names they don’t like, they’re complaining about an entire atmosphere of hatred and fear because of their race. That’s what racism is. And what does this say about Ireland, which depends now more than ever on foreign investment, tourism, and emigration? You know the saying, whatever goes around comes around.

Two-way racism my a*se. What a sneaky weasel concept.

PS: I don’t care if you were a Jehovah’s Witness living in the Vatican, you can’t talk like you know what racism is just because you were white living in a white country but that you catholic rather than protestant. This is a really annoying thing that Irish people do, because:
(a) racism is always something DONE to them, the Irish are never ever the aggressor. Well, now you are. Deal with it, denounce it and stop denying it & making excuses for it. You are the aggressor now.
(b) it wasn’t racism, it was sectarianism. You can never hide the fact that you’re Black / Brown / Yellow / Red / Whatever-Colour-You-Are, it’s 24/7 until the day you die. You have no clue what it’s like to be a racial minority and stop pretending like you do.

There’s always a possibility that the people on this board are “unaware” of the problem because they are part of it..

But it’s probably best not to assume that, just don’t rule it out as a possibility.. Racism is pretty rampant all over so you would need to be rather closed off not to notice it.

head in the sand mentality seems to be prevalent

I’m probably going to get downvoted into oblivion for this but…

Ireland is the only country I’ve ever seen where taxis are regularly large, fairly new Mercs, and the drivers are predominantly native / white.
In every other country I’ve been to the majority of the taxi drivers are immigrants. The reasons for this are generally that it is unskilled labour, with few barriers to entry, and not particularly well-paid.

Irish taxi drivers are upset because the gravy train was derailed. Deregulation removed it from at one point being a job that paid on average €80k a year (from an Irish Times article some years ago, I don’t have a link) to being a highly competitive workplace. Now that immigrants are coming in there is (naturally) some tension between the already upset indigenous workforce and the additional competition.
I’ve seen many Irish taxi drivers perform dangerous manoeuvres to grab a fare but when it’s done by a non-native there is a huge ganging-up by other taxi drivers – horns beeping, windows rolled down, and torrents of racial abuse screamed.

I had a friend visiting from Switzerland last week after not having lived in Ireland for a number of years. We were in a taxi about 3 minutes before the racist talk started. You don’t have to wait long to hear Irish taxi drivers throw out the classic “I’m not racist, but…”

That is nonsense. It’s not immigration that ruined the taxi industry, it’s the deregulation.
Before, buying a taxi plate was an investment, they cost €80,000. Usually to cover this cost the license owner would rent his plate to a “cozy” and they would share the license. These guys knew that they got out what they put in, and they worked hard for it.
Then along comes deregulation, let’s drop the price of a license plate to €5,000, pay no attention whatsoever to who buys them (no vetting procedures, nothing) and all of a sudden you had a load of people who went out on Friday and Saturday night, and bank holidays, to top up their existing income from other jobs, the “part timers”. In order to hold a plate you are supposed to be a full timer – but it’s not enforced.
Yay, we all get taxis quicker after the pub at the weekend, meanwhile there are too many taxis on the road every night and THAT is why our taxi drivers are struggling.
The colour of their skin and their ethnicity mean nothing, I remember my dad was always giving out about the guys who had other jobs coming out only at the weekend, whereas this was his primary income.
Made no difference to those waiting on taxis, it was great for them.. It’s no use whining about our poor Irish taxi drivers work being stolen by non nationals – the problem includes plenty of white Irish part timers too.

Shanti Om,

I think you misunderstood me. Of course deregulation changed the industry but it was absolutely required. The market had to be opened up. £80,000 for a taxi licence was ridiculous – there shouldn’t be significant barriers to entry to a market like driving a taxi.
My point is that now that the market has been opened, Ireland will naturally start to equalise to the same scenario you see in other countries where the majority of drivers are immigrants.

no its not. Racism is a cudgel of the majority native tribe to beat the minority other over the head with.

the stuff you and others are putting over – that we are supposed to believe a minority of black drivers operating on their own, will go around the rank calling the mass of white irish taxi drivers “white pig bastards” is a lie.

You’re lying – you say this because the subtext is that it justifies your racism, the only phrase I’d say is getting used is “Black bastard” Brian, and I warrant its coming regularly out of your mouth.

Maybe thats because we have so many of our own unskilled who drive taxis and then we gave out visas to the unskilled from other countries. Why are we still giving out visas to unskilled people from outside the EU when we have thousands of our own?

That’s it. Condemn a whole race due to the ignorance of one of it’s members. Darren Scully is an ignorant bigoted racist in my humble opinion but that doesn’t make the whole White race the same. Get it?

Yeah, there is tons of racism against Irish people in Ireland. We are on our knees with it.

Why can’t you just step up to the plate and say “I don’t like black people, I am very comfortable pushing negative stereotypes of them and making up apocryphal encounters to back my world view, in short I am one of the legion of deeply racist Irish people”

Swim, I’ll happily admit to not being happy with the way Ireland is going in regards to migration.
Multiculturalism is a disaster and its the irish heritage and culture that has and will suffered.
We have too many unskilled people here from outside the EU when we have plenty of our own.
This isnt racism, this is liking what makes my country Ireland.

No it doesn’t, provided these same run ins would deter you from taking a taxi with an irish driver. Would they?

Hmmm.. Let’s see, does it make you a racist..
Do you think all African or Black people will behave the same way as these few you have bad experiences with?

If so, that is a logical fallacy, an error of reasoning if you will, I’ve been groped, offered drink by a drunk driver, brought to the wrong place in spite of me telling the driver he was going the wrong way, threatened when I refused to pay said driver for taking me on a wild goose chase to crank up the meter, had drivers who stank, drivers who’s personal appearance was slobbish and dirty… Should I go on? Because they were all WHITE, all IRISH.. By that rationale, should I stop using Irish taxis? Because that would mean excluding my own father, and all the other Irish taxi drivers who have done nothing wrong..

If not, and you think only these three drivers are responsible for their own behaviours, then you are not a racist, but perhaps instead of trying to avoid all those of similar racial descent to them, you should make a habit of noting down every drivers plate and driver number and reporting them if there is a problem?? it’s the only way to weed out bad drivers..

Probably

So in short: “I’m not a racist, but… Here’s a complety racist generalization and negative stereotyping of black taxi drivers”

Well played, racist sir, well played.

It does make you racist and you have the right to do that!
It is your freedom to pick the taxi driver on whatever grounds you like. Whether it a color of skin of the driver, brand of the car or plate number.
As long as you don’t go and abuse people and it it is fine.

Political correctness turns our brains to jelly.

I’ve had the same experience with Irish drivers with very definite Dublin accents. So what’s your point??

The place someone was born has no bearing on the person they will become. The amount of pigment in their skin doesn’t either. It’s their life experience and how they were raised that will determine this.

To cast a judgement upon an entire race or nationality because of experience with one or two members is completely illogical and irrational.

You can’t “doctor” the meter.

I would disagree with that because why would they tamper tag the thing for calibrating the meter. Next time your in one look at the meter and there should be a little hologram sticker, under this is were it is calibrated. It should never be damaged and if it is the taxi driver is meant to have it replaced or face being fined.

Of course the place someone was born has a bearing on how they’ll turn out! Middle east men don’t treat women equally, so if a sexy dressed woman gets in a taxi driven by a middle east man he would probably treat her differently to how and Irish born taxi man would, people are raised differently throughout the world and have different views on things, this is life… And a taxi meter can be recalibrated!

Hold on Dec, you just proved my point – it is about how they are RAISED. Geography means nothing in terms of how people are raised. I know men from the middle east who are very respectful of women, not ALL of them fit the fallacious stereotype you just placed upon them there..

And if a sexy woman got in a taxi with a sleazy Irish man he would treat her differently too, I have been groped and propositioned by Irish taxi drivers, what exactly was your point?

My point is that I would expect a man from a middle east country (with his ideals intact) to be disgusted to see a woman show off her bits n bobs, I’d expect the opposite from an Irish taxi driver! The kind of respect that I’m talking about is not what you think I’m talking about! And I don’t think all middle east men are this way… Fact is, at the moment geography does determine how you are raised and ultimately how you turn out! Put it this way, a child raised in ethiopia, starved most of his/her life moves to Ireland and becomes a taxi driver, tell me this person wouldn’t be disgusted by some of the carry on they would see coming out of pubs and clubs in the city?

My apologies Dec, I did misunderstand you, and I see your point.

I’d been getting taxis to the airport for years by Irish only drivers at around €40 a pop plus tip. When receipted metering came in the price dropped to around €30… Needless to say I dont tip anymore. Except of course whenever I get a professional honest taxi man – regardless of race or colour.

Shanti, unfortunately we cannot get rid of our own but we can prevent those from outside the EU getting in to the country. Did we have a shortage of taxi drivers? Are they on the skills list or something?

not surprised u had a few run-ins wit the irish lot, they just wouldnt put up wit ur guff!!
hehe… sorry, couldn’t resist..

It makes you an obsessive compulsive racist.

I knew it! Black people are bad and untrustworthy! You know, I suspected as much. Now, let’s all go to that whites only bar I’ve heard about.

Fantastic retort, no need for the racism though!

Well I wasn’t sure of your position there Ted, but after I saw your comprehensive survey showing that 90% of black taxi drivers (hey, let’s just say black people) are untrustworthy and crooked.. Well, with figures like that I just knew it was ok to think badly about black people and denigrate them myself. I think I’m probably going to denigrate their intelligence. What I’m planning on is telling stories about how their kids are nearly always stupid and disruptive in class. Possibly their hygiene is off too. And that the real problem is that they’re making it worse for the poor Irish kids in class, and of course, I’ll finish with – but sure god we can’t ever say anything about it because that would be racist.

Racism: so much fun it should be illegal!

Don’t be so easily led make up your own mind. That’s my own opinion from my experiences and as we all know 79% of all surveys are spot on. You really should bring your own argument and experiences to the table but it seems you have lived a sheltered life so far. Get out there and experience life don’t just sit there and agree with everything I say make up your own mind. Your racist comments are not welcome here by the way!

@swimtobirds – I think Ted can’t see your sarcasm :-), maybe you should point it out for him

I love it Ted….”and as we all know 79% of all surveys are spot on”. You’re hilarious and you don’t even know it…..Genius!

Who said that blacks can’t be racist, commit hate crimes etc? I don’t think anyone ever did.

What foreign language slurs? What are you talking about? Also, people coming out with “it’s not fair, anything I say is racist – but I can personally tell you in my experience all black drivers are bad”

Why can’t people just say “I am conditioned to and am very comfortable producing negative stereotypes of black people as a means of rejecting their social validity and therefore segmenting them from what I term real society” … because that is what is going on in about three quarters of the racist comments on this thread.

He said he didn’t understand the language to know whether they were racial slurs ….

It’s one thing being slated and abused, you get some drunk moron for a fare, They’re loutish and aggressive, they shout random insults and try to get personal – and that’s wrong, no matter what.

So maybe they start calling you a fat bastard (my apologies – this is not aimed at you, I have no idea as to your physical appearance, it’s just the most basic insult about physical appearance I can think of) and for most people this is hurtful, but they may be more inclined to shrug it off.

If you got the same fare and you don’t look “irish” then this may move from (insult racial slur here) to “why don’t you go home / you have no right to be here / you’re not welcome here / etc”

This would add quite a different slant to the abuse would you not agree? I can’t even imagine how you would escalate general juvenile abuse to that level..

It’s not just the cats who’ll have to worry crossing the road then. I’d rather walk home in stiletto heels made from broken beer bottles than get into a car with that racist got.

A taxi driver followed me and my girlfriend up the quay’s beeping his horn at me looking for a run and when I told him to “f**k off!”, he shouted back at me “you racist”. I would have told him to feck off whatever colour he was.

Thats exactly what im talking about Diego, im not racist at all but being badgered walking the streets is a bit much. It happens regularly on nites out.

It happens all the time. I was in Thailand a few years ago, where this is the norm and I remember thinking to myself “thank god this doesn’t happen at home, it would drive you crazy”. Ah well……

I think we should curb crawling by all but babies. Now kerb crawling…well now that’s a different matter.

@Joe you say “I am so sick of coloured taxi men”… does that mean that you don’t mind being kerb crawled if the driver is pink-skinned?

To be fair I have only seen african drivers do this.

geez alan, and there i was thinkin it was just me…
gas dat ’cause every taxi i got in driven by a white fella has deliberately ploughed over a cat, some even stopped and reversed back over it to be sure, then whipped out a bottle of smirnoff, guzzled half of it, told me it must be month since he last had a shower and changed his jocks and tracksuit, then drove off in the wrong direction, and doubled the cost that was on the meter ’cause my house wasnt where he thought it should be….

It’s strange how the comments that express the same sentiments as mine but with the race of the drivers reversed such as Ted Power’s one above get loads of upvotes.
Sorry, not strange, racist.

Yeah, the journal comments are very racist tinged reading down. Surprise! Irish people are inherently racist! Good times.

If the cat is going to drink vodka and then wander onto the road what can he expect?

again what? People complaining about being racially abused whilst trying to earn a living? Heaven forbid! This is rampant, I know people who’ll freely admit they would never get in a taxi of the driver was black; how do you think that makes the driver feel?? This is only one example.

There is abuse of all taxi men. I work in retail and I experience black people being racist towards myself and my colleagues but I can’t say anything or I will be called a racist. It’s going both ways in my opinion.

As long as race exists, so too will racism.
We need to get past that.

Part of the problem may be that the word ‘racism’ has become a label of contempt which I believe is undeserved in many cases.

Agreed Elaine, my dads a taxi driver and he tries to operate as much as possible from the radio as attacks on drivers are so common, I worry about him every night he goes out to work.
Ps, my dads a Dub.

Taxi drivers’ group ‘not aware’ of racist abuse problem.

They’re telling bare faced lies. They know well, they just don’t care. As far as this ‘group’ is concerned, all foreign taxi drivers are ‘taking their jobs’. Well Boo Hoo. Anyone else remember the 2-3hr queues at College Green years ago? Taxi drivers were raking it in at our expense.

I’ll admit it, I’m a taxiest, I dislike them all equally!

Im saying it can be done.

Agreed on all points!

People need to start looking at the bigger picture. These countries are being deliberately kept underdeveloped to make it easier to exploit their resources. How can it be anything otherwise when most of the worlds natural resources come from countries that can be described as “third world” or “underdeveloped”. When these people can finally scrape enough money together, they are obviously going to try get themselves to countries with high standards of living. Even working crappy jobs over here probably gives them far more money than working some of the best jobs over there.

peter, i didnt colonise, buy and sell slaves, destroy economies, send missionaries, recruit them to fight wars etc, and neither did the majority of people.
if some black people have a chip on their shoulder towards white people, that is their problem, not mine.

Did u know that many irish were treated by their ‘owners’ as having less value as a commodity as some black slaves? Where does that fit in with ur analysis?

Did u even know that there were irish men women and children who were slaves?

Making general statements doesn’t work for me.
I treat everyone i meet with respect and as an equal, until they do something to lose it, white, black, yellow, red, big, small, etc

We are not talking about Irish, we’re talking about whites. Either we are part of the white race or we’re not.

Well you can start your own white race party maybe Val. Maybe mix in some religion, the purity of the Irish Celtic blood, all that good stuff.

val, does that mean i am in some way responsible for the deeds of some white people, simply ’cause we share similar skin colour?

by that rationale, as we as a species are homo sapiens, i am responsible for all actions of all homo sapiens?

another way of looking at it. say im american. america is at war with whoever. do that mean i am at war with them too?

Absolutely not, and as a matter of fact, considering the way we were treated down through the years by other white’s, starting with the Greeks 2000 years ago, I wouldn’t consider us Irish as being white despite the colour of our skin. However, most of the comments on this thread don’t distuinguish between black races so we shouldn’t distunguish between whites.

I get what you’re saying and completely agree, but unfortunately these issues are more about the “group”. I will openly admit, I have had a number of problems with taxi drivers that are from Nigeria. However I have also gotten taxi’s from chaps from other African countries, Morocco and Kenya are two that spring to mind, and they have been sound out! They actually ended up rounding the price DOWN to the closest euro, whereas a number of Nigerian taxi drivers have left the meter running when I’m counting me money, or claimed they didnt have any change/didnt want to give me my change. And again, I’m not claiming that about all Nigerian taxi drivers, but unfortunately the bad experiences with them far outway the good.

less of the ‘we’ pal. Or are all whites the same?

Well you know if all black people are the same the logic would imply all whites are..
(except neither is a logical statement)

Hmmm, so whites, what a bunch of overly entitled, ego driven, aggressive, sneering, elitist greedy louts eh?

@Shanti – EXACTLY!! There is a certain beauty too Irish people when they talk about “foreigners” – blacks in particular. There is no distinguishing. However, when you counter them by grouping whites together, they get their backs up and say “I’m Irish pal, we didn’t conquer loads of countries”. If they’re all black, we all white. Simple as.

I dont recall Ireland ever colonising and imposing our culture on other countries?

Whats wrong with the irish race or culture? Why are so many Irish people keen to embrace multiculturalism (which hasnt worked) to the detriment of our own culture? Why would you want ireland to be like every other country in the developed world?

Ciara, I’m a big supporter of the Irish language and Irish music, and I would support Gaelic Games if I had the slightest interest in sports. I’m actually against multiculturalism as a government policy, because it leads to ghettoisation. But there’s a different between racial identity and cultural identity. Racial identity is tied to eugenics – fear of contamination of the “blood”. Put simply, I’ve got no tolerance of any theories or policies tied that distinguish between people of different races.

By the way, all of these replies were aimed at someone who’s comments were deleted, because of hate speech.

If I wanted to experience their culture Id visit their countries!

Who are you talking to?

Free speech Fiachra. We are entitled to say whatever we please regardless of it offends you.