Good point Auntie, but what happens when the government bullies change the law to suit themselves and makes the citizens of this country liable for fake taxes. Once this happens you can bet your bottom dollar that they will change EVERYTHING to suit them.!! This is not democracy!

Don’t register, don’t pay , get levied, get fined, go to jail. No unions in jail.

why should you pay peter,,, when the Gov Ministers dont have to pay it themselves, http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/03/13/00247.asp

Joe, not that old chestnut again. Ministers must pay the tax as they must pay all taxes. The statement you refer to is in respect of property vested, on behalf of the State, in the office holder for the time being.

did you read what i posted peter,, and its from hogan’s mouth,, not mine

or maybe peter i’ll paste here his words instead,,, · Residential properties that are part of the trading stock of a business and have not been sold or been the source of any income since construction,

· Residential property owned by a Minister of the Government, a housing authority or the Health Service Executive,

· Voluntary and co-operative housing,

· Residential property subject to commercial rates and wholly used as a dwelling,

· Residential property owned by certain charities or discretionary trusts, and

· Residential property which an owner has vacated due to long-term mental or physical infirmity (e.g. elderly person that has moved into a nursing home).

@Joe. Residential property owned by a Minister of the Government, a housing authority or the Health Service Executive, I am asking this question because I genuinely don’t know the answer. Does that not mean any residential property owned by a Minister, including his own? I ask because Leo Varadkar said he has paid his charge but is that not a residential property owned by a minister?

Joe, I believe the confusion comes from what “owned by a Minister of government” MEANS. That is “owned by an individual who is currently a government minister” or “owned by the office/position of government minister”. From what I can tell, government minister’s own private residences are liable, but those buildings which are owned by the *job*, not the man (ie, in actuality owned by the state but placed at the disposal of the government) are not liable.

Which view is true, I can’t say with certainty, but there’s a lot of confusion about it.

Just like the Lisbon Treatry debates we’re now seeing misleading and frankly dishonest claims being made about the Household Charge. Whatever you might feel about the charge itself, the making and repeating of false claims about the charge undermines the arguments being made against it.

For the record, and the umnpteenth time, government ministers are as liable to pay the charge on their personal homes every bit as much as we all are. The legislation does provide exemptions for property vested in the minister in her/his role as minister, e.g. residential propoerty used by armed forces personnel which is “owned” by the Minister of Defence.

Anyone who persists in claiming that ministers own homes are exempt from the household charge is either not paying attention or is deliberately lying about the legislation.

i am mortified at the level of stupid i see here today,,, its in plain english,,, if it is your residence,, you pay the charge,,, peter you show a level of stupidness i’ve never saw,, maybe you are FG and you want to con fuse it,,, its in black and fucking white,, ministers dont pay the household charge,, varadkar is the worst,, i want to see his reciept,,, their is always one dick that wants to convert ppl,,, i sent the link from the dail,,, read it FFS

@Joe McDermot, Joe you are either a troll or ignorant beyond measure and I suspect it is the former. Read the Act and compare it with Big Phil’s statement in the House. The Act exempts property VESTED in Ministers etc. Big Phil mistakenly used the words “owned by” thus giving ammunition to trolls such as you.

well said

Well said, perhaps, but also flat wrong. People on mortgage interest supplement, typically unemployed home owners, are also exempt from the hopusehold charge. I take it you will now withdraw your claim that “People on SW do have to pay …”?

Think the point still stands desmond, if you are on sw but not mortgage interest supplement you have too pay.

Not entirely, Niamh. If you’re on SW and are paying a mortgage, you really should be claiming mortgage interest supplement. Some people on SW may not qualify for the supplment but Andrea was wrong in making the unqualified statement that every houseowner on SW is liable.

I replied to you Desmond but for some reason it posted down further…don’t know why

Well said

Not sure I would take financial advice from Mr. Wallace !

He’s an elected member of the house. As far as I’m concerned a member of the Dail has told me not to pay the charge, and I’m going to be a good little boy and do EXACTLY as he says.

Nor would I want financial advice from a FG party than breaks the rules on advisors pay.

Well as I see it they can only take you to court if they know you are the homeowner and havent paid and that is going take a lot of expensive paper work tracking . Utility bills etc dont prove this. Dont register dont pay dont panic. And dont listen to the bullying scare tactics of this puppet government.

That makes me laugh. Do you honestly believe that we have an acceptable public service? People waiting in A&E for up to 12 hours, waiting lists for treatment taking over a year, schools losing SNA’s, frontline services are being hit every day. Our public services are a joke compared to parts of Europe and we have one of the highest tax rates. Where is all that money going? Don’t answer that, we already know..

A large pat of the reason why our public services are so poor is because our tax base is so low, Andrea. Like I said, if we want European levels of public services we are going to have to pay European levels of tax including property taxes. Or do you know of some other way of funding high quality services?

In Germany the highest tax rate is 45% and that is for people earning over 250,000, people pay 14% tax on salaries up to 52,000. In France they pay 14% up to 27,000, 30% up to 72,000 and 41% over that. Not the same taxes as us and nowhere near as high. I’m sure there are countries that may pay higher taxes than us but certainly not the ones dictating ours.

The fg ard fheis is gonna be hilarious. Talk about the perfect storm….anglo pay out, hhc deadline and all the fgs in in the ones place. Perfect day for a protest.

Gahhh. Now that swine noony is trying to ruin our fun by ‘delaying’ the anglo payout. We aren’t fooled that easily noonan. Bet they extend the closing date for registering next. Get the hint, its not cos we don’t know how to pay, its not cos
we don’t know where to pay, its because we don’t want to pay. We have had enough.

This country makes me sick!! Thank goodness the people of Ireland are staying strong and sending out an astounding message to this continuity FF government, that we will not be pushed any further, that we don’t have any more to give and that they can have a NO to the referendum aswell. I actually do think that these feckers would do worse long term than FF ever did. Roll on the next election. FG/lab out!

Do you think RTÉ spend your €170 TV License money well?

Good idea, or tell them we’re giving it to the national childrens hospital fund. Seeing as they have billions to giv away to defunct banks but cant find a shilling for the kids. Where is their mandate for this charge anyway as 1.5 million homes which must equate to well over 2.5million people seem to have decided they dont want this. Thats nearly 80% of the electorate. Are we living in dictatorship now, where the will of the people is ignored .

Amen to that.Yes indeed ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.WAKE UP IRELAND.WE SHAN’T BE BULLIED INTO PAYING THIS UNFAIR TAX.

ooh little troll (little) being the word lol….bet you wish you could red thumb my comment more than once but go ahead red thumb this one too….ooh yeah…that’s it..you know you want to…ah…can’t get it to work ;-) …never mind it happens like that sometimes :-P

Very strange. I managed to do it twice, through the app and the mobile site.

Good on you Biddy well said we need a nice little Dictator like they have down the Middle East such as Syria and Aran or in Africa where they have Mr Mugabe or why not ask that great leader in North Korea whom the people dare so much adore to come and mind us .
Feck democratic politics It clearly does not work . You and the likes of Johnaton O Brian of Sinn Fein, and the Democratic left Alliance are correct only abide by the laws that you personally feel are just

No. We don’t need a dictator.

We need a sensible, select group of Competent Engineers, Accountants and Economists.

We do not need a dictator and we do not need politicians.

Aran has a dictator, no wonder such a small group of islands produces so many wolly jumpers, slave labour I tells you!!!

*wooley*

Agree if they use it to benefit society and kept it at €100.00, but it will no doubt go way up and on top of the other levies ,charges its just simply to much.
Do this goverment think house buyers are earners loads of money. (Like them) I dont recieve expenses for going to work and earn close to one hundred thousand a year. wont pay cause cant pay

Those on social welfare are probably exempt.

No I do not think so everyone who owns a house has to pay the charge Whether on Social welfare or not. Exemptions are people living in Council houses rented accommodation also people who are living in unfinished estates that is I think the situation which is unbalanced but that is the Government we are dealing with.

Surely that’s the choice pretty much anyway. The money needs to be raised. The question is whether those who own homes that are in profit (remember those who bought during the boom years don’t have to pay), property owners and landlords are willing to pay less than €2 a week or if, instead, the money comes AGAIN – like so much before it – off the backs of those on social welfare, those on hospital trolleys, those wanting decent teacher numbers in their schools.

At the end of the day, the ‘No’ campaign isn’t on the side of regular people — it’s on the side of making regular people pay more so they don’t have to.

Actually Francis, there’s a number of exemptions. Effectively, you don’t have to pay if you’re in negative equity, if you’re a registered charity, or if you’re in long term ill health requiring residential care (for example, an older person in a nursing home doesn’t have to pay on their house back home, or someone in hospital long term for recovery/treatment doesn’t need to pay for the house back home either).

But, as far as I can see, you’re right in that people who own their own houses but are on social welfare benefit aren’t exempt. It’s almost certain any such people refusing to pay will have it stopped from their social welfare as legislation is already being discussed to make similar stops on the pay of PAYE workers.

All Scare tactics ….. Don’t register , don’t pay. I am against this unfair unjust and unaffordable I am an ordinary person . I will never pay it .I want a good health service , I want my children to have access to a good education, and S N A ‘s .It is not my debt. I have always been tax compliant , but enough is enough.

** I am against this unfair unjust and unaffordable **Tax …

So people in Ireland want European levels of public servcies like health and educaiton, but God forbid that we might pay European levels of tax to met the cost of them. This is a case of simple arithmetic. We can have the US system where taxes are low but public services are poor, or we can have the Euiropean system where taxes are higher but we have a civilised level of public servcies. Which choice would you make?

My response once again not going in the right place, it is above your comment Desmond

WTF??

Luke Kelly at his best…

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C14U7JYGRgA

Thanks for that lads. Not you mcbab! I’d recommend taking a minute to listen to the poem. The enemy is showing its face. It is big money. It is time we stood together. Ireland is not for sale.

Hope to see ye on a “Not Selling Our State Assets” thread lads. ;)

Norman
I wish the Labour lads and lasses would come out and say what they are thinking . It is unbelievable to think that a whole section of our population can be gagged and silenced to such an extent. Like wise I wish thatourSinn Fein ,TD’s at any rate, would get off the fence and support the Campaign against HHC. United we stand. Divided we fall. Look to your hearts and do what you know is right . 1500,000 households can not be wrong!

The goverment might think twice about imposing any more taxes on us while we are stuck in deep recession as they use our hard earned cash to bail out dead banks and corrupt developers. Web are sick of being used. Enough is enough.

If as you say a good number wont register , wont pay and wont panic, as I am confident they wont , then I think / hope the over paid government will rethink with their over paid advisors and discuss and look at and come up with fairer options . Options that are as obvious to you and me .Increase employment for a start, Make jobs ,not import them,make them.Just stop taking and taking and taking from an already empty pocket.

I have not got a pay rise in the last 3 years!

To be fair my girlfriends pay has gone down by almost a fifth in the last couple of years working in the council. If it goes down anymore she would be better of on the dole with all the benefits.

True but let them think twice about using our money to pay for the debts of corruption. The anglo payout is not our debt and while they continue to pay it I won’t even consider paying hhc.

I wish you were right Niamh but these knobbers in government will just think the Irish public as naughty little non payers of their (in their minds) clever tax. They need to be hit with bigger sticks than this to get the message

That’s why ive invested my €100 hhc money in one of these….will have it up and running by the 31st…

http://m.gizmodo.com/5327191/ikea+style-diy-guillotine-covers-all-your-extreme-roleplaying-needs

Dave Harris
That is another days work .We are still trying to get this one abolished , but I am glad you feel(from your remark above) we have a good chance :)

Hey Niamh .I have done some baking ….. so we can all eat cake !!! :)

Good one Niamh

The line starts in front of the ol Anglo bank

I see The snake Higgins is up early, should you not be out putting leaflets through people doors for a fake property tax!…cause no else in your little gang had the decency to do it. You should really head off and see some of the world for a few years you look very young to be acting like a tool everyday.

What an unintelligent comment!!!!!

And your union rep refuses to divulge how much his members him in salary and massive expenses, considering the majority of members work in the public sector one wonders where he thinks the cash comes from .

Great comment.

@david
SSSSSSssss

It is not 2euro a week .You can not pay by the week.So why say it.

@Gerry its about the HHC not union leaders pay,but if you ask the journal nicely they might sttat a relevent thread for you.But till then please stay on subject.

@David:
Next time your union is in negotiations with your boss make sure to print out this text, sign it, and hand it in to the bosses office. Don’t forget to specify your charity though.

http://www.mnprogressiveproject.com/diary/11151/union-free-rider-card

Proud moment for you having this read out on Matt Cooper today?

Last time I checked television was optional.

Also I would be more than willing to pay €100 if that was reflective if the ongoing annual charge. I think we all know that it will be way more than that if we all meekly sign on to this charge.

I think your missing the point. there comes a time when enough is enough! its attitude like yours that let’s the government think they can do what they like.

@Joe. Think people are saying enough is enough. We have done the austerity bit and it’s not working. We see money being borrowed to pay back those we are borrowing from and a crippling debt being built up and at the same time we see our government elected by the people to serve the people trying to penalise those who bought their own homes in good faith and who paid large amounts of stamp duty while doing so. This tax is inequitable and must be resisted. Time to send a message to our government. The people say NO.

@ Joe
“…and no one complained”
People complain all the time actually. Check any posts relating to the licence.

Last time I checked buying property was optional…

Joe Roddy
The TV license fee, pays for a service and it is optional . Do you not get it ? Enough is enough . I am tired , I am afraid , I do not have enough to make ends meet

Peter Nolan
That is a low …remark
Are you saying that people should not try to improve their lot? and move on ? Or are you really saying that people should know their place and stay in it ? any way you say it , still makes it a deplorable comment .
The banks loaned the money , People are still paying their mortgages as far as possible , so how is this our debt ?
I am amazed that people who utter cmments like you have just made still exist .

((And just to go off topic slightly the NLI (National Library of Ireland) have an open day for first world war relics !))

@Tom but we can insist on fairness am i right?

@Norman. Exactly right! That’s all anybody wants right now.