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POLITICIANS HAVE BEEN told that the proposed three-day wait period for a woman to obtain an abortion is “not supported by evidence”.
Dr Peter Boylan of the Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists told the Oireachtas Health Committee today that “there isn’t any evidence that it is in fact necessary”.
He also argued that it makes assumptions about how women make decisions.
The physician was speaking alongside Dr Cliona Murphy and was giving evidence to TDs and Senators during a discussion on the future provision of abortion in Ireland following the May vote to repeal the Eighth Amendment.
Ahead of that vote, the government’s proposals laid out that a woman obtaining a termination up to 12 weeks of her pregnancy would have to wait for three days after an initial consultation for that termination to take place.
After an initial consultation, it’s proposed that the woman would wait three days and return for a second visit before she is prescribed the necessary pills.
Speaking to the committee today, Boylan said that the is no medical evidence for the proposed three-day wait time and that it “may act as a barrier”.
He later added that, while many doctors may see the delay as unnecessary, it is ultimately up to politicians whether this becomes part of legislation:
There isn’t any evidence that it is in fact necessary and it also makes presumptions about women’s ability to make decisions about their own healthcare. We’ve heard a lot about paternalism and attitudes toward women in the light of the CervicalCheck problems, so while there will be mixed views about it, a lot of doctors feel that it in fact is not necessary and should be dropped. But that’s a matter for the House of the Oireachtas.
Solidarity TD Ruth Coppinger said that there is “no medical need” for this requirement and that it was only included “as a sop for TDs”.
Coppinger added that the wait time will make it particularly difficult for poorer women to make two trips to the doctor.
“It inhibits access if you’re poor or if you’re a victim of, say violence. It means if you’re a woman with other children you have to go in for a second appointment,” she said.
Fine Gael TD Kate O’Connell also spoke about the issue and said that, while she voted for the proposal, “it’s almost completely at odds with my belief that you should trust a woman to make her decision.”
O’Connell added that she wanted to hear more evidence about the potential harm of the three-day wait but cautioned that politicians should be careful about changing things that the public voted on.
“I would argue that we spent a lot of time at the Eighth Committee making it very clear to people of Ireland what we’re putting before them and we put before them that there would be a three-day cooling off period, and I think any change to that would have to be very deeply considered at this point,” she said.
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No thanks leave them in there
@old man trucker: if the virus wiped a few of them out. It would save the state the cost of their upkeep.
@Damien: oh the humanity! Such love for your fellow man
@old man trucker: Since this affects the elderly most of all, it maybe be appropriate put some older prisoners, >60 or >70 years, in a facility where they can be better isolated from the virus. They should not and don’t need to allow fit young prisoners out.
@Jeremiah A Craic: let them stay in yours so. Ye can self isolate together and entertain them with an Elvis number
@Da Vid: luckily I have no abode to call my own kid, but if I did, The King would be an excellent choice!
@old man trucker: or they could let out prisoners who are in there for non-violent crimes since that’s what prisons are meant to be used for; people who are a threat to the rest of us.
@Jeremiah A Craic: says the ex prisoner!
Oh great!!! Well we can now expect a spike in burglaries during the possible lockdown
@Oliver Jumelle: In a lockdown, aren’t people more likely to be at home, thus reducing burglaries? I guess businesses are more likely to suffer…
@Bountyop: unless it is a violent burglary. Makes no sense. Just keep the isolated so no one brings the virus into prisons.
@Bountyop: ehhh you do know some burglars don’t give a fook if your home…they’ll still break in and then assault you.
@Bountyop: it’s very difficult to get put into prison in this country, letting violent criminals on the streets even for a short while just means these people will commit as much crime as they can to make up for lost earnings. Weld the cells shut and let them rot
@Arya: staff?
Cancel visitation, forget their “rights”, leave them isolated, that’s what prison is supposed to be anyway. Jesus…
All I care about here is the guards.
@: eh no that’s not what prison is supposed to be
@Jesus Christ:
Prison, it’s a place where you isolate dangerous people from society. I know it’s not PC to say it, but some people shouldn’t be part of society, and are beyond rehabilitation.
Our prison sentencing is too lenient as it is.
Shut the duck up an listen Jesus is talking to ya
@Jesus Christ: Yes prison should be a place that it’s so awful that once your left free you will never want to commit a crime again, as you won’t ever want to end up back there. Nowadays they are treated so well they don’t care if they end up back in prison.
@Amy: Odd, then, that reoffending rates are worse in jurisdictions that have more severe prison regimes. This doesn’t suit people, but is still true.
There is plenty of detailed data on this, but here’s one summary, and not from a particularly liberal publication
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12
@George Salter:
Correlation != causation.
Have you considered that perhaps severe sentencing is a reaction to high levels of crime?
Countries who take a soft touch on prisons tend to be wealthy nations with low poverty rates and social programs. Releasing violent offendors benefits nobody.
@George Salter:
Shoot them then
@Jesus Christ: well it’s high time the victims rights were acknowledged… prisoners give up their rights when they commit crime..
Stupid conversation. It’s got nothing to do with what you or anyone else thinks prison “should be”. The system we have is the system we have and its not going to change into some draconian system because of the virus or comments on a Internet board. If you want to change the system run for office.
@: would you like that to happen to you if you were incarcerated?
Are they not isolated in prison? Leave them there
@Lochlainn Marcus: during the 1918 influenza pandemic, prisons either escaped completely or had severe outbreaks. Confined living means prisoners can quarantine themselves. Also, since this affects the elderly most of all, it maybe be appropriate only allow out some low risk elderly prisoners, >70 years, allow them to isolate at home. They should not and don’t need to allow fit young prisoners out.
@Lochlainn Marcus: yes one big cess-pit
This is insane, nobody benefits from this.
The robbing thieving scrotes benefit…
Mad thing is the virus doesnt care about their crimes . 4000 hosts in close quaters mmmm feeding time at the petri dish
@Dermot Donnelly:
Quarantine the lot then. Shouldn’t be hard.
So no gaurds then? No doctors? What about kitchen staff needed to feed the other prisoners? Cleaning staff?
They aren’t in there for singing too loud in mass!!!! They are already in a controlled and isolated environment. No advantage in releasing any of them. These people aren’t exactly going to play by the rules if released.
@Dave Farrington: God I love mass!
FFS releasing some of these would be worse than the virus. It would be better if they “volunteered” to be used for testing for a vaccine.
@John C: prisoners of n the 80s volunteered for
Medical trials in Irish prisons and where then given shorter sentences in return.
The right thing to do here is keep them in there and ban visitors for a period of time so no virus transmission either way. Releasing them makes zero sense if they already have underlying conditions would it be more dangerous for them to be exposed to the outside world?
@Wendy H: that can be done and has been done before for short periods. But the issue is you have guards, teachers, psychologists, deliveries etc all entering the prison daily and who knows what they’re carrying.
Gets better. Lock down some -then let’s let prisoners out just incase those poor souls get it but to hell with tax payers we will tell them to keep working – some public facing who are totally at risk of catching this virus! Why not just lock down prisons. We all need to do our bit and we are all going to experience hardships.
Move these prisoners and isolate them on Spike Island, it was good enough for Military Prisoners and young offenders.
@Fred Conlan: and it’s now a museum …
Plenty of thugs with hundreds of previous convictions who should rot in jail are already roaming the streets and you want to release more?
Would it not make more sense to ban prison visits and order prison officers to remain at home temporarily when not working. Last thing we need during a national crisis is petty thugs roaming the streets.
@Adam Conroy: the prisons are grossly overcrowded. It would be a better idea if the government came down harder on people who let their kids roam the streets in big groups , like a witnessed last night. Pubs packed yesterday for last day of Cheltenham. By next week this country will be on total lockdown because people just cant be trusted.
Prison officers are more than aware of the risks and are incredibly aware of the dangers of catching this s#it and bringing it home to their families , let alone bringing it into an institution
I guess it’s just a normal virus, alright back to school and work everyone
@RJ: we must protect the vulnerable buy reducing the spread. But maybe you’re just selfish.
@RJ: it’s crazy we’re not shutting down holiday flights abroad
@RJ: so nobody got the sarcasm.
@RJ: no body can hear you. We only see your text. It’s not video chat you know.
@dstaffx: when push comes to shove everyone is selfish…. everyone.
More prison space needs to be built! This shows how bad the system is!
Yea and I bet if those fine members of society get covid19 when they are released they will of course self isolate
@johnbrady: They would sue the state either way.
No early release , designate one prison for any COVID 19 cases, so they are moved there and dealt with there
@Angry_Man41: And what prison would that be they are all pscked
Stick the prisoners on a island keep a patrol ship around it and let them at it .
@Block a Tron: be a good movie
So the one place we are guaranteed to have people isolated isnt even good enough?
Why, the only way it can get in is through the prison officers or new entries. Test the prison staff and test new inmates
Absolute not.. they are safer in there and we’ll be safer out here without them..thank you very much..
Death penalty for paedophiles or those on life sentence. Those who have abused children do not deserve to be treated as humans anymore so no human rights. Horrible thing to say but the law abiding public are more important
@Brian Tierney: I don’t think they were planning on releasing any kiddie fiddlers or steamers.
Let them rot in prison no great loss to society one way or the other.
@Peter Dunne: Listen to yourself.
The journal publish their 1st April headline in advance by mistake!! Oopsie!
Leave them there and stop visiting, everyone is a winner.
Building another prison ?
@Eddie O’Reilly: Would build another hospital not be better?
One would think a prison is one place the virus will never get into. Ensure your officers and staff do not infect the prisoners. Keep the 2 metre policy in place at all times. How hard can it be to control a virus in a prison. A sinch. If you are releasing prisoners make sure they are the white collar criminals.
Micheal Martin really will do anything to get the fianna fail vote back up again!
@Berkieahern3: Where in this article does it say anything about Michael Martin??????
the way things are headed, they are much safer in prison, than at home or in the community.
Let them put to run amuck during a national crisis. Yeh that makes sense.
This has to be an April fools joke!
Surly its easier to control covid in a controlled environment instead of letting them out to the general public. I suppose its one way of reducing the prisoner population.
Why is it ok for home cares to ban family visits and not prisons?!!
Welease Woger
@Lee Mac Eoghain: very well. I shall release Woger…
So release more people who are “generally of worse health” into society and increase the risk of more people getting infected by them to resolve the problem??? Seriously? One these people are in prison for a reason and two they are far more likely to pick up the virus and spread it…I like most people have some level of sympathy but this makes absolute no sense.
Iran released 70000 prisoners the other day!!!
@Danny Murphy: yeah but most of them were probably in there for wearing the wrong coloured socks on a Tuesday
@Dara O’Brien: of course they were or stealing food to feed their families! Not trying to compare just saying it is being done in other countries currently, obviously only persons that are no danger to society should be released early!
A significant amount of people enter our prisons every day so there is clearly a risk that the virus could be introduced. There is serious overcrowding so very few places to put dangerous prisoners in isolation if they have the virus. If they are seriously ill they would probably have to go to hospital under escort and be isolated there. Would be difficult to get staff to agree to supervise them. One option would possibly be to prepare the old Curragh Prison and prepare it as an isolation location for prisoners with the virus.
Release Bwian
It’s an ill wind…
Prison riot incoming.
If you can’t keep scag out you won’t be stopping an airborne virus, the net idea will be about as useful.
Would they not be safer in prison!
Crime certainly pays in Ireland. yes let them all out …….. Any other european country doing it ….. NO …………
Wrong..putting them in single cells is a good way.no visitors..like a lot of us for next 2-3 weeks.living alone.and afraid enough with out criminals on the loose..it just gets better .today they said as few arrests as possible..on the telly.by a guard.
@Shirley Hollingsworth: How do you achieve that though if you have a prison with 170 cells but 320 prisoners ? (Real life scenario BTW…) Theory is wonderful but real life is a little more complicated.
@Doug Minihane: I’m not being rational or intelligent or fair because I’m not stupid .i didn’t run to the shop to buy toilet roll in a panic..I have real panic.there will be no good outcome here after this.and if prisoners are being left free.and courts are cancelled .and looting begins next week when no wages are given .making good decisions now will help a lot ..leave them there .and give all new prisoners to an army controlled building.bring home all soldiers we have an emergency here.and it will get worse..
@Shirley Hollingsworth: As few arrests as possible is a bit of a myth anyway. A Garda making an arrest must always consider if it’s necessary and appropriate to do so.
Texas martial law, Ireland everybody free!
Dont wanna anything for now….
Very concerning concept
… by using coronavirus in a Final Solution-type scenario?
Non-violent offenders and those within a few weeks or days from release why not sure ?
It’s not like prison authorities are not going to consider who they’ll release.
Just let out the nonviolent ones, TV licence offenders and the likes.
Don’t a lot of this community have self isolation imposed? Just manage visitor’s – zero contact! If Covid 19 is not already evident in the prison community why risk exposure? Staff should be the ones we are concerned about, there are the people who come and go daily.
I was wondering if court sittings might need to be cancelled which would thereby reduce the amount of people being brought to prison.
Look what happened to Gotham City when their prisoners got out!
Some people just didn’t read the full story,
It said people who are a risk to public safety would not be given temporary release,
I think it would be a good thing to release prisoners who would have been considered for temporary release anyway,
People have this attitude lock them up and throw away the key,
Which is the wrong thing.
The last thing that the prison service needs is anarchy,
I’m sure it is frightening enough to be separated from your family without having the thought of dying in a prison without seeing them again,
I think low category prisoners should be released immediately.
This thing is going to wipe out thousands of people.
have your say