Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
THE DEPARTMENT OF Health has said this afternoon it will investigate reports of top staff at the HSE ‘rigging waiting lists’.
A report in today’s Sunday Business Post claimed that a confidential memo sent to staff in one HSE region said that waiting lists were to be “manipulated” to meet targets.
Methods invoked allegedly included prioritising patients who were about to become long-term waiters, and removing patients from lists if they required further tests, giving them two weeks to respond to an appointment, or by sending them to a private doctor.
In a statement this afternoon, the HSE said it had no knowledge of the memo, but that should it be confirmed to be genuine, “appropriate disciplinary action against managers” will be taken if they urged employees to manipulate figures.
It conceded that the practice of outsourcing some patients waiting for an outpatient appointment to a private provider did occur in some instances, “but has now ceased”, and that in some cases patients are left off a waiting list until tests confirm that procedures are necessary.
“The HSE continues to tackle the current waiting lists and is pursuing further opportunities for improvement, which are currently in the implementation phase,” the statement continued.
This includes reducing the number of patients who do not turn up for their appointment, and increasing the number of new patients in the clinic rather than just reviewing previous attenders who are better returned to their GP.
A spokesperson for the Department of Health said these were “serious allegations”.
“The Department will be pursuing the matter further with [the HSE] during the week in the context of ongoing discussions regarding waiting lists.”
Fianna Fáil health spokesperson Billy Kelleher called for the issue to be debated in the Dáil this week.
Originally published 4.47pm
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
I would say there is serious rigging of the unemployment list as well! Scambridge
So the HSE is playing God with patients lives and their health………….
Houdini himself couldn’t use his magic to sort out this mess of a health system….
They’re getting more creative with corruption by the day.
The HSE has only 2 appointment times. Morning or afternoon. Come and queue up and wait for hours.
Try and put off the appointment for a day. You’ll be lucky to get a new slot in 6 months.
If you go privately on the other hand….
As someone who has unfortunately had multiple surgeries and had multiple consultants over the past two years I can, as a matter of fact, say that you are talking rubbish. I’ve rarely been kept waiting and just last Wednesday changed a time no problem. During the summer I changed a date and was seen the following week. I have absolutely NO complaints about my treatment. It has been first class from the minute I was admitted with an illness that almost killed me.
Now where’s my commercial?
You’re both right I think. Once you get your first appointment, it seems to be plain sailing from then until you finish your treatment. I think the problems lie in how long some people are left waiting to get that first appointment. I had to reschedule an appointment with a consultant 3 times and was not left waiting very long for a different one. I honestly couldn’t complain about the service I received.
@Alan: I think the health service does a very good job nearly all the time when someone’s life is at stake.
However, things rapidly become a nightmare (without private insurance) for other problems or illnesses – such as hip ops or other conditions which could be life-altering for the good, while not life threatening
my daughter who was never in Dublin in her life got an appointment for 10 o clock next Saturday in crumlin childrens ask leo how she is supposed to get there with her six year old daughter the cost alone would buy her food for a week disguisting
Go away, I am so sick of you Alan, really sick of you.
Good. I thoroughly enjoy sickening fevered egos.
Try enjoying life. You only get one shot at it. I know that better than most.
@Eamonn Burns
Are you unhappy because you have to wait a week, or because you need to go to the hospital to be seen?
Surely a week’s wait is excellent service, while no fool expects the hospital to come to their door.
we live 60 miles from dublin the appointment is for a six year old child keep your red thumb
Eamonn, can I ask if there is a hospital closer to you that could have seen her?
I tried to postpone my sons day surgery as he had a pretty bad chest infection and asthma attack. It was two days before surgery. I was told by a very high handed HSE minion that if I cancelled my son would be taken off the llist and not called again. This was my further time ever trying to change a surgery and my son has two per year every year and will do for the rest of his llife. I lost it with her . Told he his surgery was vital but going under anesthetic wasn’t on if he was sick . Told her we would arrive for surgery and when my son was sent home because he was too I’ll for it I would tell everyone involved it was her fault the slot was wasted and not given to someone else. She I mediately back tracked but I did complain as her attitude was appalling. Its the consultant who decides who comes off ,lists not that upstart
That’s dreadful Catherine, the same thing happened to my brother. He tried to cancel because he was sick and was told he’d lose his place on the list. So he went in and then had another nurse berate him for coming into a hospital when he knew he was ill. The right hand fighting the left…
Damon my son has he to go to Crumlin and they don’t much cars if you are coming from outside Dublin. You can get help with medical expenses from CWO . Fares and such . I have never used this but know plenty who have had to. If even I needed to see CWO I can’t go as the office is not wheelchair accessible here. Joke really. I was lucky to be still working when my son attended crumlin so could afford to drive up myself.
Eamon what do you expect the HSE to do, rebuild the hospital closer to you? Maybe send a limo?
she has been waiting 18 months its a heart complaint she is 6 she lives 60 miles from dublin her appointment is 10 o clock on a saturday morning she has no way of getting to dublin maybe u can arrange it you p///ck
Conor
It may surprise you to know that some private waiting lists are longer than the public ones. My aunt discovered that dermatologists take three months to see a public patient and ten to see a private one!
Some procedures in private hospitals take a shorter time to see patients referred by the HSE compared to GP referred private ones.
Eamonn I would say that a hospital close by would not have made a difference if your granddaughter needs to see a pediatric cardiologist . They tend to be Dublin based especially if surgery is on the cards at any point . See if your daughter can access funds through the CWO . There is usually a CWO who is specially for illness and disability in kids or so I was told at a talk given by the local CWO office . Or dept of social protection rep as they are called now.
You were lucky. My dad spent 44 hours on a chair in Beaumont. Had a CT scan where those geniuses missed a tumour the size of a large orange, I never ever thought I would look on the NHS with fondness. Now in a proper hospital, 2 operations later and a distinct lack of third world care. All in 20 days, honestly. ….I give up on this dump
Calm down Eamonn. A bit of an overreaction to an appointment, don’t u think?
Maybe reschedule (instead of cursing up a storm followed by a no-show).
Go easy on the secretary. Giving someone a 10am appointment isn’t wrong.
#Eamonn wasn’t your grandchild so lucky to get an appointment, many many children and adults on lists so get there! Surely you have one friend with a car or cheap buses to get there! Or would you like Leo to send a car?
Well said Michael. I thought it was Eamons granddaughter but how silly of me. He must need a car to door and back service. Jeez
Obviously he needs Crumlin but is too stupid to manage to get there!
If you love ur daughter you will find a way. You fool
Alan u troll, my mother had to change an appointment, 6 months later she is still waiting
Catherine sounds like he already uses every system going
Don’t know if the insults are called for . If people are on limited incomes getting to hospital appointments in different parts of the country are a problem . Do buses and trains run from his area ? Will there be one early enough to allow them to get to Dublin in time for ten o clock ? Are they cheap? Some independent operators are cheap but irish bus and rail often are not . Then there is transport from bus or train station to the hospital and back . Taxis are not cheap and bus timetables if your not from Dublin are not easy. I don’t know what streets are where myself. Worse still if you have a sickly 6 year old in tow . That’s the reality of an early appointment when you are not from Dublin . They were waiting 18 months he said for this appointment too so they are not getting any special treatment here . In fact they are getting fairly crappy treatment with the appointment time and waiting time fot appointment but apparently we should all be grateful for crappy treatment these days . Expecting any level of understanding or humanity its out of the question. So stop jumping on the man who is clearly worried about his granddaughter and daughter. Like he said the cost to his daughter to get to Dublin is the same as a weeks food . That’s the reality for many families.
Mary Murphy you just came on to throw insults at people and make assumptions about them and their character did you ? Nice
Stuart, delighted to hear that your dad got the treatment he needed, no matter where no matter how. THAT at least is a victory :-D
#Catherine I am a cancer survivor so stop with the crap!! I had to make my own way and without any help from social or Med Card so DO NOT insult me. Thanks. If you need treatment you get there by hell or by water.
Ps Catherine I am waiting 13 months for an op so begging your pardon for speaking out!!!
Mary more than you are cancer survivors here . Unlike you I wasn’t throwing insults around and none at you . You didn’t come on to add anything of value to the topic you just came on to have a go at that man . You said nothing at all about ops or anything else. If you are working and have medical durance with your job or you pay for it privately then grand good for you but lashing out at that man isn’t going to help you in the least . He never said once his daughter wasn’t going to rake the child for the appointment . He just expressed concerns on how to get there but I suppose he is not allowed to speak out is he only you is it ? I see how defensive you got when someone took issue with you . Yet it’s ok for you to Insult someone else is it ? Also you have no clue if that man is on the social as you put it or his family if if they have medical cards and even if they did that doesn’t make them less worthy of treatment or that they should not complain about what is a very poor system right now . I hope you get your op soon Mary and I hope you start to learn to see beyond your experience and your own little world and show compassion .
Alan, I apologise for being unfair and uncouth in light of your health problems. Someone precious to me is having serious health problems and is not experiencing the plain sailing in obtaining treatment etc. you appear to have enjoyed. Nonetheless it is not your problem and I should not have been quite so rude.
Sheik that was very nice of you . Hope your loved one starts to win their battle .
When my dad was diagnosed in 1972 my mam begged borrowed and hitched to Dublin every day to visit him, even tough she had four kids under eight living in Cavan. That was before motorways were invented or even dual carriages. So do not dare to critise my life Catherine, especially when my mam was told at the time that She or my Dad or us children were not entitled to a medical card by the health minister at the time one Mr Charles J Haughey. How dare you critise what me or my family have been through!!!! You have no idea, but lucky for you my Dad was on a higher tax at the time which allowed you to have an allowance from social or whatever name you wish to call it. So yes I do speak from experience from 1972 to the present day. Now good night lady and please don’t bother to reply. My mam had to travel over 200 miles there and back every day and still managed to rear four children. So 60 miles is a hell of a lot less and while your busy criticising me maybe you might find out why Eamonn cand do the 60 miles. Serve you better than making long winded assumptions about my health. Thanks
Your child is very lucky to have that appointment next week in Crumlin. There are over 520 on the list. So you got an early morning appointment and your giving out?? Get a 7 am train or lift. Jesus there is no pleasing some people. Am sure other kids will swap!
@ Alan. Do you ever do anything else but try to convince that black is white? Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you dont voice an opinion, you just keep on sptouting and supporting the government on any subject raised here. You’re not alone. There are many government trolls trying to convince us of the same. Dont you get it? People are fed up, sick and tired of this government. We see scandal after scandal, lie after lie, spin piled on top of spin. Being in government means being at a big gravy trough where you can satisfy your greed. And ordinary people are the means to that end.
I don’t support the government on many issues. Education is the main one. Quinn without a doubt was the worst minister for education we have had in a long time and his successor doesn’t look like she would be much better. I’d be very disappointed with what they’ve done with the Gardai and their homeless policy is a joke.
It is perfectly possible to support some of a party’s policies and not others.
Sheikh I am sorry to hear that and hope your loved one makes a full recovery.
Mary Murphy your family history has nothing to do with it and I am pretty sure a huge number of people have stories about their parents like that I know I do. I made no assumptions about your health at all long winded or otherwise . Can you point out where I did ? I did criticise you for calling that man stupid and throwing other insults around when you know nothing about him. You are all uppity here and think it’s ok for you to do that because you and your family have had medical issues in the past. It’s no excuse none. Eamonn is not the one travelling either it’s his daughter and granddaughter and he didn’t say they couldn’t do it he had concerns about getting there in time and the cost involved . You continue to make incorrect assumptions and make false assertions though and when pulled on them start naming off your families medical history . It’s not relevant . Your parents experience over 40 years ago has nothing to do with it no more than my parents experience of the exact same in the 80s without any allowance from ” the social” too .
It’s not just waiting lists that get manipulated. When you compare the casualty trolley wait times for beds from the hse vs independent, hse is always way lower because of how they count and the time the choose. It’s no surprise that there is systematic fudging of the numbers. There always has been. The public know the truth tho. We have all had friends or relatives wait too long.
Because James Reilly priced a S***E load of people out of private health insurance, public wait lists are only going to get worse
Exactly , health insurance went up about 1000 euro last year alone due to ridiculous health levies.
http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=23110
The public has no idea of how bad things are. The link to irishhealth above leads to an even more serious allegation in this area that was recently raised by Dr Crown in the Dail. The essence is as follows;
“He told the Health Committee yesterday that a new method of calculating waiting lists had been adopted which meant that people were not counted as being on a list until they received a specific time for a hospital appointment. This, Dr Crown claimed, meant that a patient might not be included on a waiting list while their GP was awaiting a response to his or her referral letter seeking a hospital appointment.”
Now that is depressing.
Don’t really see the problem with that. You’re not on a list until you have been given an appointment to see a consultant. That makes sense. It takes a matter of weeks between GP sending a letter and an appointment date being given then you are counted as being on the waiting list.
Depends how long they expand that time out to.
And if you read the more recent journal article about Dr Crowe, you can see he has real concerns that weeks have deliberately been allowed to become months.
When will they get it Sick people don’t make a profits. The reward is the person gets better.
Services that governments provide are not meant to make a profit. It’s called society and it’s why we pay taxes. To furnish the state with sufficient provision to provide welfare for those who are unable to provide for themselves. Not unwilling but unable. Good management should ensure that these resources are not wasted or squandered. Unfortunately, the current thought in power is to grab and grasp. The notion of public service is comatose and self service rampant.
Ah, Tracey, the fire and the desire for fairness is strong in you. May it never be crushed out of you, as has happened with so many, it would appear.
What do we want- whistle=blowers- when do we want them…NOW!!
Unfortunately when it comes to the HSE, rather than altruistic whistle-blowers, we get information leaks from one interest group (most likely consultants in this instance, a few of whom are quoted in SBP story) incriminating another interest group (in this case, senior HSE management). In a sort of tit-for-tat, we may, in time, see a leaked management report showing, say, how little time consultants actually spend seeing patients at their public clinics or such like.
The ‘trolley count’ mismatches are another example of this carry-on where the nurses unions try to portray the number of people on trolleys in A&Es as the most important metric in the whole health system which is best remedied, coincidentally of course, by the allocation of resources to nurses in the acute setting.
None of this is actual ‘whistleblowing’: it is all just strategic leaks or cherry-picked detail to advance the agenda of one of the powerful interest groups within the dysfunctional HSE.
one good thing came out of the recession it showed how corrupt this country is
No knowledge of this but it is is proven to be true sanctions will be taken against appropriate managers
Plain English. …We will deny all until proof is made public then we will give some fat cat a slap on the wrist and a pay rise!
These “sanctions” may already have been taken.
Oh, ask me arse. This kind of dishonesty has been going on for yonks, can anyone pretend to be surprised about it.? The powers that be in this country are mere apes. They copy everything that is done in the UK, no matter how bad or how wrong headed it is. The decline of the NHS dates from the bright sparks who invented “hospital trusts” which were to at least break even, but preferably produce profit. This has been a miserable failure (witness the regular ongoing scandals) and I doubt very much that the NHS can survive, as a result of political interference. Our own homegrown apes have sought to reproduce this disaster, in this country, apparently with great success. Three cheers for the apes we rely upon to run this country! Be the Lord Harry, I am reaching the stage where I am fit to do murder. In case people aren’t old enough to remember, we have the Thatcher worshipping PDs to thank for this.
I went looking for an appointment in Kerry General Hospital on the behest of my GP (ear nose and throat)- when I heard nothing for a couple of months I rang the Consultants secretary-she told me the waiting list was over 2yrs when I said I was a Medical card patient, but if I went private and paid €150 I could see him Tomorrow!
When you are in ill health and worried you will pay-even though you can’t afford it!
I now get my appointments in Cork as it’s only around 3 months!
It’s sickening to live in a society where the difference between life and death can be based on your Bank balance!
Private patients should not under any circumstances have an automatic right to be 1st in the que!
We need a fair system based on need and get rid of ANY Consultants that don’t play ball!
Not holding my breath! !
Nothing surprises me anymore with this government.
This government, the last government…
Only 4.5 million people and what percentage of that are sick at any one time and this government can’t look after them. They should be put before the European Court of human rights
Eamon my daughter has been attending Crumlin for 17 years our app is next week and at 8.15am and we are coming from Cork .. The 6 year old is probably been referred to Dublin because they have the best pediatric cardiologist .Your local hospital probably dose not specialise in cardiologist. Good luck with appointment hope all turns out well ..
Is there no depths FG & LP won’t ain’t to. Platform of anti corruption & Openness or did I dream that?
how the fu*k is there a “target” for a waiting list meaning life or death in some cases or simply a better quality of life …..
Why do long term waiters get to the front of the queue? How about short term cooks?
Varadkarcrash!
He is a deer in headlights. Enda dropped him in this swamp to ruin the political career of a potential rival.
If Leo keeps his head above water, it’ll be a miracle.
@michael you are probably right, but Leo is sharp. I would suspect that he has a “Strategy” ready for such eventualities. He can’t loose if he continues to talk up the lack of resources.
Why bother investigating a rigged list when the ship of state itself is rigged!
Leo should seek a report.
This government is not for the people of Ireland its for the German bitch and her bondholder pals.Dealing with Kenny must be like taking sweets from a baby.Difference is one one side there is a career politician and on ours a failed school teacher, Jesus wept what did the men of 1916 fight for it was not worth it.Ever since we became a separate state its been run by crooks, chancers and thieves, with a few exceptions, maybe we should ask Liz to have us back as we have failed to make a go of it on our own!
have your say