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LAST UPDATE | 13 Dec 2024
IT IS “UNLIKELY” that Labour will go into government with Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil, party leader Ivana Bacik has said.
It comes as a Fianna Fáil TD said at this stage it appeared that independents were “more interested” in government formation talks than Labour or the Social Democrats.
Representatives from Labour, including leader Ivana Bacik, met with Simon Harris and Micheál Martin on Tuesday to discuss the possibility of forming a coalition with the two larger parties, outlining its manifesto commitments.
After a parliamentary party meeting in Dublin today, Bacik announced that Labour TDs decided to seek one more meeting with both Harris and Martin next week so that they can get a “clear response” to their priorities.
She added: “We’re conscious of the numbers in the Dáil, but we do also have a duty to engage fully and to ensure that we are giving every opportunity to Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael to provide us with with their response to the policy priorities that we’ve outlined.”
She added that the “very small gap” between the two big parties and an overall majority would mean a small party would have “very little capacity, influence or leverage” to deliver on its priorities.
“We want to see a state construction company, we’ve been really clear about that. But equally, Micheál Martin has been very clear about his scepticism about that and these are the real policy differences that we have,” she said.
“This is what we discussed on Tuesday, but we want to give those discussions a little more focus and substance.”
There have been reports of a split within Labour as to whether or not the party should seek to enter a coalition with Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael by themselves.
Labour initially sought to jointly enter government formation negotiations with the Social Democrats, but the fellow left-party rejected the proposal last week.
The Journal understands that there is now a “sense of uniformity” in the view that Labour should not enter into government. Separate reports this week suggested that Bacik has internally ruled out going into government without the Social Democrats.
On Wednesday, Harris claimed that Independent TDs, who are now seen as the likely third leg of the stool in the next coalition government, were “very serious” about forming a majority with Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil.
He said that there is a “clear way” for his party and Fianna Fáil to form a government, but that a majority is needed. Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil negotiating teams have met this week a number of times and have described the talks as positive.
Harris said he believes a government will be formed by the middle of next month. He said he would like an agreement to be finalised “ideally before” US President-elect Donald Trump is sworn into office on 20 January.
Meanwhile, Fianna Fáil TD for Clare Timmy Dooley said that “it remains to be decided” how stable a coalition that included independents would be.
“There’s nobody putting pressure on anybody, there’s still time for those other parties such as Labour and the Social Democrats to decide do they want to participate and do they want to enter more formal discussions and negotiations.
“The independents from the start appeared to be quite interested,” he said on RTÉ’s Today with Claire Byrne programme.
Independent TD Michael Lowry, of the Regional Independent group, confirmed this week that he has been invited to speak with Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil’s negotiating teams early next week.
The discussions will be around getting the structure and the parameters of the technical group’s engagement in government formation talks agreed. Arising from those discussions the Regional Group’s will appoint their negotiators.
Asked this week if he will be the next Taoiseach, Micheál Martin said Fianna Fáil will continue its discussions with other parties first. He noted, however, that he has been clear, since before the election, that he would like to be leader of the country.
Martin said he was aware that the public are anxious for discussions to wrap up quickly so a government can be formed soon. He did not say, however, if an agreement would be made by January.
“I respect the talks process and we’ll see what transpires,” he told reporters.
-With additional reporting from Press Association
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‘Please, please, please can we be in government with you’ I believe is Labour’s opening gambit.
@Brian D’Arcy: +1
And “What’s in it for us? We already have the so-called Independents on our side” is the answer they’ll get I believe
@Brian D’Arcy: read the article. It’s clear Labour are not going in.
Listening to Ivana Bacik makes listening to Helen Mc almost bearable, and that’s saying something.
She was a major advocate for a yes vote in the recent referendums and believes in an open door policy similar to Merkel.
@martin lawlor: Since I heard it said at a Labor Party convention that because industrious people were so greedy the more you tax them the harder they will work I realised what they are like. And they are not the only ones that think like that. Keeping them out is important for humanity.
@martin lawlor: The last thing Ireland needs is an ideologist like Ivana Bacik, might suit the Irish Times readers. She has nothing in common with working families who are struggling to survive, that’s why all the parties of the Left try to hitch themselves to some bandwagon like Gay Rights, Palestinians, Animal Rights, all good things that need support, but are just latched on to by Irish left ideologists who have forgotten that the Irish people must come first. Labour will split & disintegrate within a year, it’s obvious O Riordain is pulling the strings, he is a control freak who wants everyone hanging on his word & his policies, he already made a fool out of Bacik publicly, by saying Labour wouldn’t be going into Govt with FF/FG. Waste of a vote.
@SV3tN8M4: there are many in the Labour party who are excellent politicians and who work for their constituents. In the past it was always a mixed party of intellectuals, artists and working class people, and allied to the unions. Since the lessening of the unions’ power pre and post Celtic Tiger era and the increase in the numbers going on to third level education the popularity of the Labour Party has declined. It was always mainly regarded as a party which spoke for a particular sector of the community i.e. those who worked on the shop floor of industry – factories which were heavily unionised. Unlike the UK and Europe we didn’t really have a ‘left’ due to the predominance of Catholicism and Nationalism.
Labour now need to redefine themselves to see who and what they stand for.
If Labour were Left they wouldn’t sell off their left votes to FFG. A consequence they suffered recently. If they were left, they would make the request that the largest left wing party be in gov with FF, allowing for more left wing policies such as affordable housing, public childcare, disability services, workers’ pay.
@F1rYnpWc: Labour have always been the political rent-boys of Leinster House!
No point in seeking a meeting, here, I’ve laid out the main points here:
#1 Screw the average worker for all they have or desire in the future.
#2 Keep the rich getting richer and increase the class tier spacing.
#3 Club baby seals and wear their fur as a nice coat.
You’re welcome Labour.
The Labour Party put the nails in their own coffin when Jone and her back stabbers turned their back on workers. If they sit this one out it might pay dividends next elections.
@Jimmy Kiely: Indeed, she also sent letters out to people who were on the dole years ago advising them to emigrate & guess what they did!
@Jimmy Kiely: Doubtful they were beneficiaries of the green vote this time
A clear response: Are you joking. It’s Martin and Harris. Everything will be as general as it gets. Got then back in government, didn’t it.
Go away, no room for your type at the Table of plenty.
Seem to be hellbent on their own demise at the next election
@Nigel Hayden: ff and FG may not form next govt. so why go down with that ship. Sf have proved themselves to be a weak opposition party. They are better off up north. There is a real opportunity for Labour and Soc Dems to offer serious opposition to the govt here and to rise in popularity with voters. Plus, from talking to people round here, the Labour membership will probably not vote to go into govt this time.
@Alan: Ha ha, weak how? Forced a lot of u-turns from the Blue-Shirts and Fine Gael,which no dpubt you don’t acknowledge. Hiw did tgey grt 38 sears so? Clueless. The north is on the island of Ireland incase you’re too ignorant to acknowledge that, that is the part of the island that Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael ignore after fighting for Ireland for centuries leading to it being ethnically cleansed. Amazing how many people without a clue comment on this
@Brian D’Arcy: if they had been successful they would now be in government.
@Alan: They are successful enough to have more seats than FG.
@Brian D’Arcy: it’s all about context. SF had an open goal, FG in power for 14 years and with electorates all over the world booting incumbents out of office then it shows how poor SF result was. Their support collapsed in the last 18 months and less than 50 seats for them was a bad bad result. FF were the real winners in election 2024.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: but way less than FF…
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: But 40000 votes fewer, they lost 160000plus votes from 2020 if that’s successful, they are going no where.
@J T: So not as successful as FF but more successful than FG.
Wouldn’t you agree?
@Alan: you couldn’t put Labour and the Soc Dems in the same room They can’t stand each other.
Well what I love about them is their concern and care for ordinary workers and carers when they were last in power they attacked their wages packets and reduced Carers benefits.
So they 100% will go into government with them
Bacek isn’t needed or wanted
Michael Lowry propping up any government specks volumes as to bona fides of that government.
@North Phone Bowe: the convict Michael lowry.
Bacik she has some mouth on her I would say she would eat a double quarter pounder in one bite.
#prayforbilltormey
Bless.
Last time that Labour were in this position when Joan Burton was asked if they would enter a coalition government her response was “ It is almost completely unlikely “ . What the helllly toes that mean and we all know that she actually did.
The plan was to go into government with the Soc Dems and then blame then when things went wrong!
Soc Dems may be newer to politics but they are not falling for that trick!
@Gary Kearney: It would have been my preference to be honest 22 seats are better than 11 each and if they stuck to a centre left ideology they might have had more traction in getting stuff done, a national construction company isn’t a bad idea….to name one.
@Paul O’Mahoney: run like the Garda, CIE, HSE, oh man give over
Imagine wanting to get into government so that their policies might actually get enacted – It beats standing on the sidelines amongst the noisy student union debaters/ headbangers who are getting nothing done, whilst basking in the salubriousness of their own self regard. They’ll get hammered either way, so why not try.
@honey badger: Ah yes, that one injection clinic opened in 2024, evidentially didn’t follow their fate the last tike they were in government, spawning such famous sayings as Frankfurt’s way or Labour’s way. Bacik has the talk of Gilmore alright, wonder will she run away as quickly as him though.
@Brian D’Arcy: well, in fairness to her she has a liberal cast of mind. Unlike SF who voted against trans rights in the north this week. They should merge with Tobin and his fellow TD.
@Alan: As much as I despise SFIRA, they didn’t vote against “trans rights”, they actually followed the science and voted in favour of child protection.
@Alan: a very misleading post. SF followed the advice of World professional Association for Transgender Health which stated. “3. Treatment: No medical interventions are recommended in pre-pubertal children. Psychotherapy and counselling are recommended for adolescents who are confused about their gender identity, or whose desire for gender
re-assignment is driven by factors other than gender identity”.
They should stop all this nonsense about who will be in and who will not by forming a government with EVERY elected TD. (and all TD”s should be REQUIRED to vote the way their constituents wish, not based on some party agenda.)
Hamas will be disappointed.
@Oliver Cleary: Here’s another village destroyed by Israel.
It’s an ancient Christian one this time.
Does that give your racism pause at all?
@Oliver Cleary: it wasn’t Hamas that was video shooting up and ambulance with emergency lights showing last wk in Gaza. That was the war criminals of IDF.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: There are plenty of oppressive states in the Middle East and Africa and Asia- some have been at it for decades – what is the particular ongoing obsession with Israel ?
The government of Ireland will never have the people off Ireland’s best interest at heart, all they will do is line their own pockets and grow their own egos and the average normal families are the people who suffer ass usual
Jeez … fckg yawn yawn yawn …
Pat Kenny objecting to an nursing home being built in his village, what an total and complete ar$ehole! The same man will be on his show vilifying people that have objected to planning, citing that as a reason there’s a shortage of houses. I’d love to know how many properties he has for rent himself, couldn’t be having a nursing home opening in the area, amd freeing up a load of properties for rent or sale.
@Michael o connor: Pat the Hypocrite, just like the Green clown Duffy, holding a placard at a photo op saying Housing for All & then objecting to Housing. Ireland is rotten to the core.
Oh dear Labor the great party of government their young turks are calling the shots and they’re hitting for the hills. These politicians are elected to govern but they choose to shout from the sidelines
Leave her on the sideline& the social Democrats as well after that lot looking for donations and them loaded
Does anyone really care what “labour”, and ‘Ivanna’ do.
Oh my dear The Labor party The great know alls of Irish politics. Psycho help The only reason they have 11 seats is because people couldn’t vote for the Greens
Why did they go up for election if they don’t want to go into gov… don’t understand this .. this is their chance to get some of their policies in place… people are simply wasting their time voting for these parties if as soon as they get elected they say no
@Gerry Ryan: they need to redefine themselves and what they stand for. The old days of being attached at the hip to the now very weakened unions have gone. They don’t represent ‘workers’ in the traditional sense of the word any more since more of our population are qualifying at third level and moving into white collar or white coat jobs.
They also have competition from the Social Democrats which appear represent a more prosperous, and possibly slightly more conservative, white collar group.
The obvious thing would be for both parties to work together after Labour decides who and what they are for.
So they are actually better off staying out and reclaiming their identity at this stage
Dublin doll … not sure I agree with your analysis… transfers between labour and social democrats was strong so I think a lot of people see them in same light.. I certainly would … anybody who goes up for election has a duty to consider being in gov if the opportunity arises.. lots of people making comments on the journal about ff/fg same old people back in gov. But a lot of people voted for them 43% if you combine the 2 votes. And if other parties say no gov it’s inevitable the same people will once again be in power… so again why bother voting for them. It’s almost like the Sinn Fein contesting Westminster elections and then won’t take their seats… pointless
Leave her & her lot where they are
have your say