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A RESEARCHER WHOSE work has informed the upcoming national planning framework (NPF) has criticised plans for a motorway to connect Cork and Limerick.
Dr Edgar Morgenroth – Professor of Economics at DCU – said that plans for the €850 million motorway would undermine the proper growth of “second tier” cities in Ireland.
He rejected claims by An Taoiseach Leo Varadkar that the motorway would encourage the cities to grow faster.
Speaking on RTÉ’s Morning Ireland, Morgenroth said the motorway would not lead to the growth needed in cities like Cork and Limerick, but would instead lead to sprawl.
“There are a number of things that need to be borne in mind,” Morgenroth said.
“The first thing is that the original draft plan envisaged significant growth of the second tier cities which is what’s needed to anchor the economic activity in the weaker regions.
Without big cities in the regions those area that are not close to Dublin are simply going to continue doing quite badly and that’s what they have been doing.
He said that in order to achieve this, it was important “to put the infrastructure into the cities, not between them”.
“Once you put the motorway between two cities what you’re doing is getting more sprawl. So you’re undermining your own strategy,” he said.
Morgenroth also said that building a new motorway also undermined a commitment by government to reduce carbon emissions.
“So from a sustainability perspective, another motorway is not actually what’s needed. What we really need is urban public transport,” he said.
Varadkar
Speaking yesterday to RTÉ’s This Week programme, An Taoiseach Leo Varadkar defended the planned motorway, saying that the government thought that it “makes sense”.
“We now want to connect Limerick and Cork via the N20 so we can connect Cork Limerick and Galway by motorway and therefore enable them and empower them to grow faster than Dublin in the 10, 15 years ahead,” he said.
The National Planning Framework – which will be launched this Friday – is a roadmap for national planning and infrastructure development over the next 20 years.
A key part of the plan is looking at ways to encourage growth in rural towns and cities like Galway, Cork and Limerick.
Morgenroth said that there wasn’t much evidence to back up Varadkar’s statements on the new motorway.
“I don’t think there’s much evidence that that sort of thing happens,” he said.
“What we see is sprawl. It facilitates sprawl.
“If it was simply a matter of connecting two places and immediately you would get growth well we’ve done that quite a bit over the last 15 years we’ve developed a big motorway network.
Yet what we’re seeing in terms of regional development hasn’t really changed.
He said that unless determined steps were taken to improve infrastructure in smaller cities things would not change.
“And one of the items that I looked at in my report was what would Ireland look like if we don’t change things,” Morgenroth said.
“And we’d find is that the economy concentrates more in and around Dublin than elsewhere.
And that’s ultimately what we’re going to get.
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God forbid anywhere outside of the capital gets something benefitial
Best thing i find about dublin is the big motorways out of it…. The more the merrier….
@cp: I think Dr Edgar Morgenroth is wrong in his asumption that as the motorway development in the last 15 years only generated sprawl then this one will too because the 90% of the motorways built in the last 15 years only connected everywhere to Dublin. This motorway will connect Cork to Limerick and on to Galway thus linking the 2nd, 3rd and 4th largest cities in Ireland. It also links Ireland’s 2nd and 3rd largest ports and airports. This is a different beast than connecting Cork, Limerick, Waterford and Galway directly to Dublin.
@cp: I’m pretty sure most infrastructure has been built outside of Dublin. Motorways all over the shop. We got the Luas that serves a small section of the populace.
@cp: Actually what has Dublin got in the last 30 years apart from the Luas and the M50 being completed? Absolutely nothing! Meanwhile they’ve been paving the entire country with underused motorways costing 100s of millions to keep rural TDs happy!
@Kevin Kirkpatrick: Well there was the port tunnel but unless you’re a truck driver it’s not much use to the rest of us…
@cp: The suggestion wasn’t that ‘anywhere outside the capital’ should not get something beneficial. The suggestion was that the money be spent on proper infrastructure within the cities rather than on the road linking them.
Of course in an ideal world we’d have both.
@cp: if you read the article, he said urban public transport is needed instead of a motorway. That is, a train from Raheem, dooradoyle, balinacurra into the city, another from sixmilebridge, through Moyross, ballynanty, and ul into the city. Then the city grows in these areas instead of out in caherconlish and boher, transport times into the city come down and the city becomes a vibrant living place instead of the center of a massive bungalow sprawl with huge traffic tailbacks. Makes sense to me.
@Kevin Kirkpatrick: are you on heroin like the rest of them in Dublin???
You got a 4.5km tunnel that cost almost the entire budget for the Limerick to Cork motorway. You got another airport terminal; another train line to Dunboyne / dock lands, upgrading of almost all M50 junctions; a shared bicycle system; thousands of jobs / investment.
Two brand new stadia, 4 new Liffey crossings; an integrated public transport card… And that’s just the start of it.
There’s too much happening in Dublin and its bad for everyone; especially working class Dubs who have no chance to live where they were born.
This motorway links up almost 750,000 people to provide a counter balance to Dublin and the least we can do it provide traffic free driving between them
@Roland Tormey: Rail from Raheen to city center? Madness! The busses and bus lanes do that perfectly well, cycling and walking is grand too. We need to shut down railways here, like the Limerick to Galway, not build more. The 51x bus is twenty minutes quicker than the train and cheaper. Let those with free travel use the busses, not subsidised expensive empty trains.
@Mick Johnson: I smoked heroin twice actually, wasn’t for me. We still don’t have anywhere near as much investment as is required. Traffic is at a standstill and the LUAS has only made it worse. We need a metro before these ridiculous motorways are built.
@BlueSkyThinking:@BlueSkyThinking: its just am opinion , but to be fair he saying spend the 900m on the cities of cork and limerick and there might be a much better impact and improvement in cities outside dublin , the other point is that the motorway MIGHT encourage a sprawl of one off housing between the cities and that the overall effects of the motorway mightnt exceed spending the money in a different way – there might be a lot of sense in that view too
All people need to do is actually drive the road to know a motorway is needed. It shouldn’t take 2 hours to drive 100km between the second and third largest cities in Ireland.
@Robert Power: Agreed, also the road is quite dangerous in places. Dr Edgar Morgenroth should get out of his ivory tower and drive the road.
@Robert Power: At one point there’s a road sign “Sever bends 10Km”. Awful
@Robert Power: He’s not taking issue with that. He’s taking issue with Leo’s statement that it will grow the cities of Limerick and Cork.
@Eóin O Donnabháin: That is awful spelling alright!
@BlueSkyThinking: People really appear to be fitting their interpretation of Dr. Morgenroth’s comments to fit their own conclusions.
If people could see beyond their anti-dublin bias for a minute they might have realised that his point was that given the limited pool of funds available to the region, the money would be better spent on the cities themselves than the area in between them if the overall goal is growth.
This isn’t anti Cork or Limerick, in fact it’s the opposite, an economist is just giving his qualified opinion on how to allocate limited resources to achieve the best outcome for both cities.
@Sean: at what point have I shown an anti Dublin bias? Cork and Limerick need a motorway for the last 15 years. Now it might be built finally. Sure we could spend the money elsewhere but then you still need a motorway. At the end of the day this must be built and sooner rather than later. We don’t need to waste another 10 years on planning.
15 years ago we should have had the motorway. Then the government procrastinated, was this the best spend of the money, is there something else that could be done? The experts differed. Then we had the crash and the Government shelved the project. Ireland will have another recession in the next few years so build the fecking thing now. As Napoleon said, ” a good plan today is better than a great plan tomorrow”.
@BlueSkyThinking: Indeed you where not the intended recipient of the anti-dublin bias statement, but the Ivory tower comment I would contest as more than a little snide and unnecessary.
However the point is that the motorway is not the best use of investment if the goal is the growth of the two cities, that does not mean that there are not other reasons why it should be built, but people seem to be missing that entirely. You can make your arguments for the motorway and they may be strong but that doesn’t mean they would provide the same growth as direct investment in the cities themselves.
The dilemma then is with a limited pool of investment what is most important to the region, the benefit of an improved road network or that optimising the growth of the two cities, but that is a different question.
It’s a complex issue and perhaps with sufficient growth of the two cities it might be a natural progression for an upgrade of the road infrastructure down the line with the increased economic activity in the region. An argument may also be made that the road would not create the environment necessary for a natural progression of investment in the growth of the cities, but arguments to the contrary would both have to be considered.
It’s far from black and white, but the eventualities have to be assessed openly if we are to make the best move for the region.
@BlueSkyThinking: To counter your Napoleon quote, see the chaos of the Luas cross city project. A rush to get something done without sufficient weighing up of the impact has resulted in traffic chaos that proper planning could have avoided and will now cost more to put right than waiting until the funds where available to do it right in the 1st place.
@Eóin O Donnabháin: risk of getting your head severed on those bends.
The Dublin – Waterford motorway made no economic sense either when first discussed. But both my wife and I live in Kilkenny and commute 1-3 days a week to Dublin for work and I’ve just relocated our Dublin office (with 8-12 staff) to kilkenny. All because it’s easy access to Dublin and it’s airport (<1.5hours).
This one small example doesn’t justify a new motorway but it’s just a small positive example of its impact.
The motorway ways have been great for Ireland, and the Cork – Limerick road will be great too.
I wonder what Dr Edgar Morgenroth’s opinion is on the planned €320 million new runway for Dublin airport? Cork and Shannon airports are under capacity at the moment, if only there was some way of making them more attractive…
@lousybush:
Perhaps the underweight Brown Envelopes are a problem with the FFG hierarchy?
@lousybush: Yes Motorways are great, Dublin – Cork, Dublin – Limerick and others make a big difference to us but I think the Dr. has a valid point. People shouldn’t have to get stuck with commuting long distances by car the whole time. Cities don’t have to be chock-a-block with traffic. Cities can be made to work much better and not be dependant on cars.
Cork-Limerick motorway does make sense. I travel that road sometimes. It will make people’s lives easier (as the other motorways have done).
But for longer term and quality of life we need to plan and invest in denser cities, people commuting less, local transport options and better public transport.
@BlueSkyThinking: You mean the new runway thats being funded entirely by DAA? The Dublin Airport authority that also has to subsidise the financial albatross that is Cork airport?
Shannon and Cork are dying on their asses with falling passenger numbers.
What about quality of life and preservation of life as considerations. I no longer use that road when travelling between Limerick and Cork, it’s just too dangerous. So I like many more have started going through Caherconlish (the road where the school bus crashed last week) and this is the safer road! Although as traffic volumes increase this road will see more accidents.
@thejamer: agreed. The road is a dirt track and needs replacing so it can stop costing 3-4 lives per year. Since it needs replacing, makes sense to future proof it.
The arguments are dumb. Ribbon development is a planning issue. Crack down on rogue councils if you want to stop that. It’s not an argument for preventing investment.
We have an infrastructure deficit all over Ireland. This will massively improve quality of life for those that need it, and will enable more people with good multinational jobs to choose or stay in big regional towns like Mallow.
Cork has plenty of plans for density with the docklands, and the potential to develop blarney and monard with commuter rail options. Joined up thinking is needed but so is the ability for businesses to trade in both cities
@Rónán O’Suilleabháin: Great post, you should be in charge!
@thejamer: That’s a perfectly reasonable argument for the development of the motorway and I’d be surprised if Dr. Morgenroth would dispute that, however that does not mean it’s the best allocation of funds if you wish to maximise the growth of the two cities, which is what he appears to be taking issue with.
The allocation of investment is always a complex process and very rarely do we achieve the best solutions in this country, however we should not be dismissing the input of economists on the impact that investment may have on growth targets, any more than we should dismiss the residents of the regions when they offer their opinions on how it may affect quality of life, both are valuable contributions if we are to begin making the right moves forward in this country.
The issue of proper urban planning is a completely separate issue from the need for a high quality motorway ( and rail) link between the cities. Has Mr Morgenroth ever driven this route? Id say he might not be long changing his mind if he did. Put the onus on proper urban planning on Cork and Limerick County councils. Prevent ribbon development if thats what required. But the motorway is a no brainer.
@Thomas Conneely: investment in fossil fuel dependent infrastructure at a time when Ireland is facing billions in fines due to its failure to reduce emissions – not very smart. better to invest in public transport
@Gavin Daly: There has never been a direct rail link Cork/Limerick. What’s needed is a proper and safe road for buses, commuting & general commerce – use of ports, airports etc. In time motor transport will have to be environmentally friendly. You’d wonder what practical study have the ESRI completed.
@AMKavanagh: spend the money on a rail link instead – put infrastructure spend into cities instead of between them. Typically, what happens when you put motorways between cities, in the absence of critical mass, is that it has the perverse negative effect of the weaker settlement and leads to sprawl. Thereby negating the investment in the first place.
@Gavin Daly: I’m no expert on railways but those who are state that
1. They are hugely expensive
2. You need population density
I don’t think we have 2. To justify 1. We need a proper road for bus & other transport. We need to get on with M2 & a lot of work was already completed on its development. We have wasted years waffling about it.
@AMKavanagh: thats precisely the point – we need population density – as set out in the NPF – and the motorway will do precisely the opposite, exacerbating unsustainable trends and costing billions in the process
@Gavin Daly: I can’t see how the m20 will adversely affect city growth in either Limerick or Cork. 2 strong centres able to develop through trade, share education & facilities. If the road helps development of towns en route with access to it, all the better. We have to stop ribbon development anyway & presumably the new planning regulator office will do this. The M20 should be a priority if the government has any commitment to regional development.
@AMKavanagh: its a seductive argument, no doubt. However, numerous studies have shown that the regional development effect of the highway building is small and has a strong centralising effect on the distribution of employment. Given that Ireland trades at a global level and has one city of scale, the most likely beneficiary of increased road connectivity between regional centres is Dublin.
I’m a dubliner who travels outside Dublin lots and yes the demand for this motorway is there. It will also create more demand with ribbon development. Cork and limerick in some ways are more forward thinking than Dublin where excessive red tape, lack of willingness and imagination and the clowns in the so called planning agencies prevent most progressive. Get on with it. Build the motorway and stop talking about it. It was needed 15 years ago
To link Cork and Limerick makes no economic sense but linking the metropolises of Athenry and Tuam by motorway did?
Ha! Facilitates sprawl? Perhaps facilitates reducing house prices by opening up more commutable areas and better access to services cause you can actually have proper, safe connectivity.
I know people who would like to commute to work in Shannon/Limerick from Cork/ north Cork areas but won’t even consider it due to the horrible road infrastructure. This means companies in the Shannon/Limerick areas are missing out on accessing staff from a wider catchment area. Did the expert factor that into his opinion?
But most importantly, the road is a death trap and even 1 life saved is worth the expenditure.
Let’s take some of the economists advice with a big pinch of salt. Where did their advise get us in the boom/bust of 2008 and onwards?
@Shane Honan: Being tired of experts sounds a little familiar. Wasn’t that the cry of those in favor of Brexit? It does appear in retrospect that some of those experts may have been making valid points.
@Sean: How can you compare Brexit to this? Besides it’s only one expert, the other experts in the report are not on record as being against the motorway. With Brexit, all the experts were against it.
We need motorways to link our major cities. Just build it.
It’s no wonder why the great North American economist, Kenneth Galbraith, said that every country in the world had produced a notable economist, except Ireland! Ireland has been burdened with bad economists almost since the foundation of the state. It is no wonder why Ireland has historically under-invested in vital infrastructure (such as the Cork-Limerick motorway and many, many other projects), it is because we have had these dreadful and worthless naysayer economists who poo-pooed so many key projects soon after they were proposed. This is why we faced, for example, so many delays in building the absolutely-vital Metro North and Dart Underground projects (even though every other world city that has constructed an underground railway has reaped the benefits and demonstrated the great worth and asset of such projects).
An example of how poorly Ireland has been served by Irish economists was famously and egregiously seen in the late 70’s/early 80’s, when a prominent Trinity College economist declared that the Dart shouldn’t be built as it wouldnt be needed!
This guy obviously has never driven between Dublin and Cork another academic who doesn’t live in the real world
@Robert Woodward: I drove the road a few months back. Horrible. That is still no reason to build a motorway
@Gavin Daly: And what reasons would you determine to be valid reasons to build a motorway?
@John Mc Avinue: In the context of climate change, I don’t believe there are any valid reasons for building outdated infrastructure which will basically become stranded assets
We need the good doctor to join us on a regular commute on the current road for a few days. Hardship doesn’t even come close to describing it, that journey has taken me close to three hours on many occasions.
@mcgoo: was stuck on the M50 for 3 hours the other week. Lovely road, result the same
Ah would ye stop, apple wants a motorway between its Cork HQ and it’s new data Centre in GALWAY
@Bart: yeah, how else are they going to get them megabits from one place to the other except with a daycent lorry and some good road. motorbike couriers just won’t be able to handle the bandwidth.
He can fek off. Build it and then extend the western motorway from beyond Tuam up to Sligo & Donegal.
Your idea is nutty, Professor!
That road between Cork and Limerick is long overdue a serious makeover, and a new motorway will bring many economic benefits not just to those cities, but also to all towns and villages in between, some of which will become dormitory towns providing more housing options for workers employed in either city.
And he needn’t be too worried on increases on carbon emissions front: sure won’t we all be recharging our electric cars very soon from electricity generated off solar panels on our roofs.
So, effective planning regulations are unable to control “urban sprawl”?
@Mahon Slattery: yes
Morgenroth talks some feckin’ rot.
God forbid a journal article is edited for grammar and typographical errors.
What a load of Bullsh*t. If you have ever driven on the current n20 and been stuck behind a tractor and 20 cars you know the current road is not fit for purpose. Its alright for these Dublin Intellectuals who never traverse that route to say crap like this. But for real people with real jobs this road is Badly needed. Just talk to any Trucker.
@Leitrim303: I think Morgenroth actually lives in Monaghan
Another academic living in an ivory tower with their models and projections. Meanwhile the rest of us have to get around. Good roads are the making of any country, the vital arteries needed for everything, look at the USA, Europe and now China.
Not to mention safety and quality of life, the drop in road deaths with huge increases in traffic volumes is large due to our improved road infrastructure.
The Dublin based media are very fast to publicise any stories about capital infrastructure spending that doesn’t directly involve Dublin
Hard to know exactly but certainly I like the idea of a motorway from Rosslare to Waterford and on to Cork and Limerick and Galway and Sligo and Donegal….. that to me makes sense for the movement of people and goods as well as convenience and an asset to the country…. why resist?
@Niall Ó Cofaigh:
Waterford Cahir
Mitchelstown limerick
Connects the “level 2 “ cities while also fulfills the remit of replacing the treacherous current road
The current route to cork from limerick through mitchelstown is only 10 mins longer and in my humble opinion is an easier route on which to build a motorway. This shorter build would save considerable $ while also connecting both cities using the already built m8
@Martin Clancy: The thousands of commuters along the existing N20 would strongly disagree.
Try driving through buttevant and charleville on a Friday, well needed and about time
@David Faulkner: Try driving when the Cahirmee horse fair is in full swing blocking the road.
All this publicity is imho a subversive attempt by a Dublin based establishment (the Media in this case) to derail a Regional project to adequately connect Ireland’s 2nd and 3rd cities , by creating such Fake public uproar, that the money gets rerouted into an ever expanding Naas Road or M50 instead
@Liam Kehoe: Talking through your backside. The M50 cannot be expanded any further, there’s just no room. You’d know that if you managed to see past those Anti-Dublin chips you have on both shoulders.
A motorway is needed to save lives.
If our current motorway infrastructure was advised and put together by so called “experts” like Dr Morgenroth, I’d be very inclined to ignore his advice. Less experts and consultants milking massive salaries and more simple common sense is needed. A primary school graduate could do a lot better in most cases.
Will the journal be covering the shocking story of British political activist Brendan Cox who was reported to police in the US for sexual assault and molestation.
@Zach Addington: and the relevance to this story about Irish roads is?…
I’m a quality public transport fan. If I can catch a train rather than drive I use the train and get some work done. So good man Edgar suggesting the funds be better used in public transport improvement. Unlikely though, as road building creates more millionaires than public transport ever can, though public transport could provide more long term jobs … but not with wages that can pay for mortgages now.
@WoodlandBard: also, shiny new roads equal votes. A few new buses are a lot less visible, despite (his argument goes) being a lot more useful.
@WoodlandBard: Why not have both? A motorway connecting Cork and Limerick alongside opening up Limerick’s suburban rail lines to commuter traffic would be even more beneficial to more people.
@WoodlandBard: They can run buses on motorways these days.
@WoodlandBard: Im guessing you live in Dublin where there is public transport. Typical Dub only thinking Dublin is important.
Makes perfect sense if you want a load of votes in Limerick and Cork though. Think the learned economist is giving Leo a bit too much credit presenting the macroeconomic argument, you would need to convince Leo the effects to him personally might be negative to encourage him to rethink.
@Liam Doyle: It’s a huge issue for people in Munster. If the road between Cork and Limerick was a good quality primary road then it would be less so, but the current road is unbelievably bad and very dangerous. It’s inexcusable and needs to be fixed ASAP.
@John Mc Avinue: similar problem in the east. We’ve been trying to get the N7 to Naas disimproved for years to discourage the lily-whites coming to Dublin but council keeps maintaining it.
@John Mc Avinue: While i do agree a motorway is need from Limerick to Cork having lived there and driven the current N20 but a brand new M20 running side by side with the N20 is not the answer. The obvious choice is to build an M24 from Limerick to Mitchelstown or somewhere along the M8 corridor. It reduces the amount of motorway that is needed to be built to connect Limerick and Cork. You can then continue the M24 on to Waterford and link 3 cities for the price of 2.
@Peter Walker: Nonsense. A lot of commuters on the current N20 will need access to this vital road. Just build the fkng thing and stop talking about it.
@Peter Walker: Nonsense. The umbrella effect of building the M20 along the existing N20 will benefit the people of East Kerry, West Cork and North Cork. Mitchelstown is practically in Tipperary, if the motorway is built from there then all of West Cork, North West Cork and East Kerry will still have to use the old, unsafe and slow N20. It won’t be worth their while to drive across to the M8 to get to Limerick. A motorway from Waterford to Limerick is also needed but this is a separate project IMO.
@Peter Walker: Don’t agree with you at all about that being the west way to do things. It’s longer in terms of distance and gives no value to people living in Mallow, Charleville and all those towns in between.
The best route was identified 15 years ago before the project was scrapped and it is not the one you’re suggesting.
The drive from Limerick to Waterford is absolutely horrendous also, but Cork-Limerick-Galway motorway should be the higher priority (by a long way)
What a clown this man is , how did he get a job as an economist
This is total crap. This motorway is the most vital piece of infrastructure proposed in the past 20 years, Dublin is creaking under the weight of overpopulation, well resourced secondary and tertiary cities are essential to balanced regional development.
I agree when he says about more urban transport infrastructure is needed. The problem is a total lack of initiative. Take rail transport in Limerick for example. There’s over 50km of unused freight rail lines running through 5 of the major Limerick suburbs already but no one seems to have the initiative to put them into use for commuter purposes. You could travel from Adare to the City centre in 25 minutes (currently 45 min trip by road) if someone would just utilise the infrastructure we already have.
@ForeverFeel1ng: Dublin us not over overpopulated. Have you ever left this country and visited big cities?
@Shane Zerbe: Have you ever travelled on Dublin Bus at rush hour? Dublin certainly is over populated. Affordable Accommodation is non-existent, families are commuting from Longford and Louth and every school in the county is over subscribed.
@Shane Zerbe: Big cities with big buildings that build upwards, for a city like Dublin that seemingly wants to sprawl outwards instead it’s definitely reaching its limit.
I wouldn’t a agee with his analysis. You can’t simply set up green belts . Hopefully Irish planning won’t still be stuck in an archaic state, by the time the motorway is compete. Look at Colm McCarthy saying the luas would be a white elephant. I don’t think many economists have a clue what they are talking about when it comes to infrastructure… if rural depopulation is such a problem, why not lower the cost of building levies in rural towns and villages within walking distance of their centres?
@Shane Zerbe: Colm McCarthy, the old cliche’ knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing’ fits him to a tee.
You have to love the wonderful world of academia. If you have ever traveled this route ( I dearly hope that our good Doctor has), you will know that it needs a safer and bigger road to handle the volume and increase safety. This is not some pie in the sky road project, this is a necessity for the people who live in the region. Yes motorways by pass villages and town but leaving things as they are is not a safe or viable approach in light of increased traffic flows and the associated safety issues.
Obviously not from West Cork
In fairness to the man he was talking about prioritization of the available budget. Not safety on roads. His point as I understood from his radio interview is that we the taxpayer gets a better return spending the money in both cities
No need for infrastructure between cites just build walled cities and stop people from coming and going.
Prof of not in real life
1. 2 hours to get under 100km
2. Road is Dangerous
3. If the government got their fingers out of their ass and get policies with regard to Planning we wouldn’t have the sprawl that the Prof is talking about ‘ allow high rise buildings’ get people back into the cities with more apartment & office building
Look around European cities ‘ there all done it very successfully
M8 is underutilised. Sensible thing would be a Motorway from Limerick to M8 at Cashel giving motorway access from Limerick to Cork.
Or upgrade Waterford to Limerick road to a motorway with the same result.
Use the roads already built!
@Clancy:
So go North to go South basically & oh yeah the extra time traveling to Cashel to Drive to CORK and also the extra cost and pollution
Only a Idiot would suggest that
Oh wait didn’t a similar idiot TD suggest that from Tipperary
Piss off
Link waterford cork Limerick via motorway and stop this nonsense of Dublin hogging everything
When did Buttevant and Charleville become “second tier” cities?
Give me a break.
Wonder has this guy ever drove from Limerick to Cork. 2 hours to drive 100 km is ridiculous.
Nonsense professor. You have set an idea in your head and you have become inflexible to that idea.
@Johnny Bellew: and it can stay in his head. Best thing to ignore these “experts”. This lad has probably never even driven this road.
one side effect of these motorways is that they facilitate criminal gangs -some of the cars these people drive are more powerful than any police vehicle.-just saying like.
@TheBluffmaster2: let’s build nothing because of wankstain smokes.
@Ronan Sexton: *skobes.
@Ronan Sexton: Well put wish I’d come up with that answer.
@Ronan Sexton: you may have picked me up wrong Ronan-I’m 100% behind the motorway-just extra security cameras etc…
It would probably be better spent in a couple of kiss lines in each city. Dublin needs a metro and at least 3/4 more kiss lines. Cork, Limerick and Galway need a tram network so that people living there don’t have to rely so heavily on their cars
Our national BS station as usual interviewing B
Sh**tters
What about comerical farmland sprawl that was once lovely meadows and forests. Now full of chemicals and danegours roads.
Not saying it should be replaced by concrete. We need better planed estate and family estates built within replanted woodland encourage wild life. Be great for kids.
Not these new estates with tiny RDS with 1/2 parking spaces , very bad design for kids.
We should leave our towns/villages as historical quarters and build new town centers with proper parking.
How about getting rid of all the social housing within the inner cities first, why the government want to house people who neither work nor contribute here is beyond me, instead replace them with high rise apartments for working people, do this, traffic congestion will be cut and the inner cities economy will boom
But…but… it sounds good. Stop talking sense.
No matter how much sense this proposed motorway may or may not make it isn’t going to happen. It’s a soundbite for public consumption to make the government look like they’re doing something when in fact they’re well aware that they’ll be well out of office before the 1st sod is turned nevermind when the ribbon is cut. They want to be the one opening it thereby taking the bulk of the credit. They don’t want to be the ones who get the blame for the inevitable, delays, over spends, consultant reports, environmental impact reports, the interference from the parish pump politicians etc ad infinitum ad nauseam. Every politician worth their salt knows people have short, selective memories especially in ireland.
I thought it was launched last week! Jeez they’re really taking the mick now.
It is a longer journey than it should be but building a motorway seems like using a sledgehammer to break a walnut…bypasses around towns like Buttevant would speed up the journey almost as much, not take nearly as long or cost nearly as much.
Disgusting attitude. Some Dubliners really do want the rest of the country to shrivel up and die.
motorways are for moving goods from one place to another. go to Europe and they are full with trucks moving goods. We dont make anything in ireland that warrants a motorway, so ours are full of cars with 1 person in them making unnecessary journey. Bar the M50 which is the only means to get around dublin.
If your going to build something build rail infrastructure for private companies to use. ( not CIE) and broadband infrastructure to move information.
So a motorway with 80,000 vehicle per day capacity will be built to connect 2 cities that have a inter city traffic volume of less than 15,000 vehicles per day?
Yes, there needs to be a new road but there is no justification for a Motorway the traffic volume is too low.
Shut up Dub
If this motorway has lots of exits triggered by local political demands- then it will be self defeating and will trigger sprawl clustered around the exits – in turn doing damage to town centres. Alternatively- if it’s designed so that the vast majority of journeys are between Cork and Limerick and vice versa – then it makes more sense. However – given the record on planning and infrastructure design we are likely to make a balls of it.
The motorway may, on balance, make sense. It doesn’t take away from the fact that Ireland’s other transport infrastructure particularly in the cities, is simply pathetic. Both are needed.
Edgar who
Yip great by pass every small town and cripple the little livelihood they left and compulsory purchase orders to drive a rd thorough their homes
@Mark Dawson: yes, it is great that dives like buttevant and charleville will at last be by-passed.
STFU. Bull shit opinion and sensational journalism.
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