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Dr. Peter Boylan during this evening's committee hearing. Oireachtas.ie

Ex-NMH master Boylan raises 'major red flag' as current master hits out at 'misinformation'

Boylan appeared before the Oireachtas Health Committee today.

LAST UPDATE | 12 May 2022

FORMER MASTER OF the National Maternity Hospital (NMH) Dr Peter Boylan told TDs and Senators today that the term “clinically appropriate” as part of the framework for the new NMH “is a major red flag”. 

Boylan made the comments at the Oireachtas Health Committee, which is also set to hear from the current master of the NMH Shane Higgins who is in favour of the plans for the new hospital. 

Boylan has been a long-standing opponent of the proposed ownership and governance structure for the hospital’s move from Holles Street to the Elm Park location in Dublin. 

The new NMH is to be co-located alongside St. Vincent’s Hospital but the previous ownership of the site by the Religious Sisters of Charity has led to concerns from Boylan and others about the influence of Catholic ethos. 

Earlier this month, St Vincent’s Healthcare Group (SVHG) completed the legal transfer of the Sisters of Charity’s shareholding in the group to the new charitable company, St Vincent’s Holdings CLG.

Cabinet was due to sign off on plans for the hospital last week but this was paused for two weeks to allow for debate and possible changes to the framework of the hospital. 

The ownership structure remains a concern for opponents but the question of “clinically appropriate” contained in the hospital’s legal framework has also been raised repeatedly.  

In his remarks to the Oireachtas Health Committee today, Boylan outlined why he has concerns over that wording.  

“The phrase ‘clinically appropriate’ is a major red flag. Providing healthcare on the basis of this test removes autonomy from women and gives the sole decision-making capacity to doctors,” Boylan said.

“These words qualify access to services and enshrine justification for refusing legally permissible treatments.”

By way of example, Boylan referenced the Miss P case from 2014 where the life support of a clinically dead pregnant woman had been continued due to legal concerns. 

“The doctors interpreted that it was clinically inappropriate to turn off, to allow her effectively to complete her death because she happened to be pregnant,” he said. 

In his address, Boylan referenced comments made by current NMH clinicians that terminations are already carried out in St Vincent’s Hospital, something which demonstrates a freedom from Catholic influence. 

Boylan argues that it is important to clarify whether these terminations have taken place under the 2018 legislation or under previous legislation governing terminations when a patient’s life was at risk.

The Sisters of Charity had sought approval from the Vatican in order to relinquish their interest in the land and Boylan said during today’s meeting that correspondence between the religious order and the Vatican on this matter should be published. 

“There’s a lot of documentation that we haven’t seen and what I would like to do, I would like to see is documentary evidence to back up statements that were made,” Boylan told the committee. 

And in particular the State and the public and the women of Ireland need to see what I term the Vatican Papers. Otherwise, we cannot trust what has been said and what has been done.

Boylan argued that the proposed land ownership structure, whereby the State is to lease the land for 299 years, was problematic and that this could be ended “at the stroke of a pen” if SVHG were to either transfer it to the State or place it for sale. 

Minister for Health Stephen Donnelly has said repeatedly that SVHG is not willing to do this and Fine Gael Senator Martin Conway put it to Boyland that his suggestion was not an option. 

Boylan said that the State should continue to “push” for it, adding:

We are a Republic who are about 100 years old. I think it’s time that we stood up for ourselves as a people, face down the church and said we need that land.

The current Master of the National Maternity Hospital Shane Higgins is expected to challenge Boylan’s views before when he appears before the committee. 

“It has been difficult to hear claims both in the media and in this room that my fervent support for the proposed move to Elm Park is some kind of surrender to the Church,” Higgins is expected to say.

“Legitimate concerns are welcome and deserve every consideration, but we must also deal in facts, and I am alarmed by the combination of emotive misinformation and misunderstanding that prevails. 

“Just because the contracts underpinning the new hospital appear complex does not indicate the church stealing influence over women’s reproductive choices through clever contractual stealth.”

Higgins is also expected to outline that the discussion around the phrase “clinically appropriate” has led to a “misplaced fear” that it will allow the Vatican to stop certain procedures.

He will say that this needs to be challenged.

“This wording serves as future-proofing, to ensure that the new maternity hospital cannot be converted into any other type of hospital in the future.

“It guarantees that the new NMH will remain, throughout its lifespan, as a maternity, gynaecology and neonatal hospital, and in this way, this significant investment into world-class maternity care in Ireland is protected,” Higgins is expected to say.

Health Minister Stephen Donnelly appeared before the Health Committee yesterday alongside other representatives who are in favour of the NMH move to Elm Park.  

Another former master of the NMH, Dr Rhona Mahony, is also in favour of the plans and she appeared before the committee yesterday. 

donnelly 4

Donnelly faced questions about the controversy in the Dáil today, with Social Democrats co-leader Róisín Shortall TD asking why, among “pages and pages” of legal documents, there is not a definition of “clinically appropriate”. 

She described this as “particularly baffling” and said a definition would remove some of the confusion around it.  

In response, Donnelly said the phrase is “a normal phrase used all the time” among doctors and he compared it to the use of phrases such as “obstetrics or gynaecology”.  

Shortall rejected that comparison and said it was “open to ambiguity”. 

In response to questions from Sinn Féin’s David Cullinane TD, Donnelly said he would provide a “letter of comfort” in which his interpretation of the phrase would be outlined. 

This, he said, would have a degree of legal authority. 

“The advice I’ve had previously is Oireachtas debate does have some legal standing,” Donnelly said. 

During today’s committee hearing, Shortall asked solicitor Simon McGarr whether the minister’s promise to provide a definition of ‘clinically appropriate’ would be helpful. 

McGarr said that one issue is that one party’s understanding of the intention of a phrase may not be the same as another party to an agreement.

McGarr raised concerns about the retention of the phrase, saying that it leads to ambiguity which may be helpful “in the political world” but not in law. 

McGarr said that ambiguous terms can lead to “unexpected, unwanted and sometimes even perverse interpretations”. 

“An area where there is an undefined term that is going to be discovered later what it means is an area where we can anticipate problems into the future between the parties,” he said. 

McGarr said that based on the minister’s own comments the phrase was inserted at the request of the HSE and that it should therefore be “in the gift” of the State to remove it.

“Surely the correct response would be to simply remove the controversial clause, which has not got the need for it as other definitions do,” he said.  

simon Solicitor Simon McGarr

During yesterday’s committee, Donnelly had left the door open to changes to the proposals before the matter returns to Cabinet next week. 

In response to Cullinane today, Donnelly said that he “won’t rule anything out” but that any alterations to the proposals wouldn’t be “major changes”.

Yesterday, the Oireachtas Health Committee wrote to Donnelly asking that there be a delay in next week’s planned Cabinet decision on the hospital move.  

Speaking in the Dáil today however, Tánaiste Leo Varadkar said: “I expect there will be a government decision on the matter next Tuesday, but we will see how things develop between now and then.”

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    Mute pat mustard
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:50 PM

    Anyone read the Guardian today, reporting on how penalty points were squashed for the editor of the Irish Independent, they are questioning the integrity of Irish journalists and news outlets for not asking questions.

    I expected the journal to at least have something on it.

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    Mute TheIrishBrain
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 7:42 PM

    Thats what has the country Ducked,The journalist are just staying stum to help secure their future employment.Meanwhile the people suffer without a voice.

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    Mute pat mustard
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 7:47 PM

    And the one journalist who wanted to continue asking questions about penalty points got fired by guess who- the same editor who had penalty points quashed, this country is so full of corruption it really is sickening.

    There is an inner circle of politicians, the media and certain higher professionals that run this country as they like and the rest of us are mere minions who must do as we are told.

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    Mute Shredded
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 7:58 PM

    Are we really looking for integrity when we speak about journalists? The least they could’ve done was give the job to someone gook lookling

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    Mute Bill Butler
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 8:03 PM

    keep up the good work pat of letting us know that this is not a democracy also another beaut heading to RTE to fill us with pure crap that they throw at us.

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    Mute Paul Roche
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:27 PM

    I heard Pat Kenny has moved to Newstalk.

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    Mute Angela Kelly
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:37 PM

    No, you’re kidding me, when? Why have I never seen that reported on the journal? Seems very odd that they never saturate their pages with stories about RTE or radio stations owned by multi billionaires.

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    Mute Right Wing Steve ©
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:19 PM

    I’m sure there was an fair and open candidate search for this taxpayer sponsored job

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    Mute Joey JoeJoe Shabadoo
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:07 PM

    In other news:
    My cats breath smells like cat food.

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    Mute Angela Kelly
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:04 PM

    Why is this news?

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    Mute vv7k7Z3c
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:07 PM

    Hi Angela,

    It is filed in the ‘Media’ Section of Business Etc.

    Thanks
    Sinéad

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:11 PM

    No pleasing some Sinead :-)

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    Mute Angela Kelly
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:19 PM

    I can see that, admittedly my eyesight isn’t great but I’m not blind. Does ‘The Journal’ source these ‘Media’ stories or do the individuals involved send their own press release in?

    Angela

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    Mute Mick Rooney
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:36 PM

    Like a number of reports on Journal and Sport.ie, the original question still remains. Why is this news? Or do you just regurgitate press released from RTE?

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    Mute vv7k7Z3c
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:45 PM

    Hi Mick, Angela,

    This wasn’t press-released by RTÉ but as we have a ‘Media’ section in our Business Etc vertical, it would then make sense to report on major recruitment decisions at Ireland’s public service broadcaster.

    Also, there’s loads of other news here if you want to read something else: http://www.thejournal.ie/

    Cheers
    Sinéad
    News Editor

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    Mute Darragh
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:55 PM

    Me thinks she will make RTE alot easier to watch while listening to the BS the TDs are spouting. Yup alot more pleasing on the eye…

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    Mute Martin Byrne
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 7:16 PM

    A real journalist would not join RTE particularly the political department. might as well work for the Fine Gael press office you will be repeating the same sound bites either way. She looks nice though maybe she will rebel and ask a government minister a real question for a change.

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    Mute Cheeky Bums
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 8:19 PM

    Tough crowd tonight Sinéad.

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    Mute Little Jim
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 8:24 PM

    Why is this tough cheeky bums!
    Or some such malarkey.

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    Mute GoGo99
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    Oct 4th 2013, 9:48 AM

    What defines news? Why’d you click on the article? Go get laid, you’ll find you’re less inclined to nitpic then.

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    Mute Chewey Bacca
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:33 PM

    When I grow up I want to be a pol coll

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    Mute Fergus Bourke
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 7:30 PM

    If the Journal’s reporting pisses people off so much, why not go somewhere else for news?

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    Mute Pat Enright
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:21 PM

    @davidmurphyRTE, too good a political correspondent to loose to Washington. Needed at home.

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    Mute Dónal O'Flynn
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:36 PM

    Erm, David Murphy isn’t a Political Correspondent, he’s Business Editor. If you mean David McCullagh or David Davin-Power, you clearly haven’t read the article!

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    Mute Angela Kelly
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:41 PM

    Touchy, touchy Donal! This weather is getting to me too.

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    Mute Kevin Denny
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 7:06 PM

    Too many Davids.

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    Mute Oliver Golden
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 9:43 PM

    Jobs for the boys/girls in RTE, can they ever advertise for some new blood ???

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    Mute Joe Bet
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 7:03 PM

    Wouldn’t mind corresponding with her if you know what I mean wink wink

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    Mute Morticia
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:25 PM

    Who?

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    Mute Paul Delaney
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:44 PM

    “Reached out” did he? I thought that was only something the Democrats did to the Republicans

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    Mute Dónal O'Flynn
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 6:38 PM

    I think they should send Robert Shortt back there, after all he was good at it last time and is the person they chose to send in the interim. Haven’t seen David Murphy report on anything other than Business so hard to judge if he’d be any good.

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    Oct 3rd 2013, 8:02 PM

    Politics just got even better!

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    Mute Sexy Taoiseach
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 8:39 PM

    Good on the eyes as well very important.

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    Mute felicity harris
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 7:54 PM

    Well done David you weren’t overlooked despite wearing shorts whilst reporting outside the dail during our hot summer

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    Mute Joe Read
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 10:50 PM

    Ah sure im sure she will do well as a government media propegandist

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    Mute Paul Roche
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    Oct 3rd 2013, 7:10 PM

    RTEs pic makes it look like the Bar lost another one…

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