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Poorer households turning to pre-pay heating - but that means they pay a 'poverty premium'

A new Mabs report covered the west Dublin areas of Ballyfermot, Chapelizod, Palmerstown and Cherry Orchard.

A NEW REPORT from the Money Advice and Budgeting Service (Mabs) has found that over half of its clients in the west Dublin areas of Ballyfermot, Cherry Orchard, Chapelizod and Palmerstown went without heating in the last 12 months.

The report – Left Behind in the Cold – highlights what it refers to as a “poverty premium” where people have moved towards pre-paid fuel meters in their home which, while decreasing arrears from unpaid bills, has left many without the money to heat their home.

Furthermore, the administration charges for topping up their meters in shops means that they end up spending far more of their income on fuel than the general population.

The report was commissioned to see if – as the economy has improved in recent years – the upturn has had any effect on rates of fuel poverty in people seeking its help, which has been strongly linked with financial difficulty and over-indebtedness.

It found that over seven in ten (72%) of clients who came to its service were in fuel poverty – which means they were spending more than 10% of their disposable income on fuel.

fuel poverty Mabs Mabs

The 56% of people who’ve gone without heat at some stage over the past 12 months is four times higher than the figure for the general population.

It also found that around six in ten of its clients now have pre-payment meters, compared to four in ten in 2013. On top of that, the administration charge of topping up these meters in shops was adding to the cost for these customers.

The report admits that due to the limitations of its study – having received information from 100 Mabs clients – no “causal links or pathways” to explain the data could be done, but it nevertheless could identify “possible associations and relationships”.

Members of the travelling community surveyed spent 21% of their income on fuel costs.

As a result of the reports findings, Mabs made a number of recommendations, including the establishment of a cross agency/departmental task force into fuel poverty.

It also recommended the activation of discretionary powers to the local community welfare officer from the Department of Social Protection to make payments to travellers living in caravans or mobile homes presenting with exceptional fuel costs and those living in sub-standard accommodation.

Marie Clark, money advice coordinator with the service, said: “There is a clear trend among clients away from the more traditional utility suppliers and towards those who operate pre-payment facilities.

There were frequent reports of administration charges for making weekly payments – primarily for meter top-ups – in local shops; such payments may, in our view, amount to a “poverty premium”, the simple fact is that it is not just token meters where a surcharge applies… The service found some shops adding a fee to everything from topping up your waste fee charge to toll fees.

Read: ‘There is a solution for everybody’: Debtors urged not to put their heads in the sand in 2018

Read: How to survive last-minute shopping without overspending (according to a MABS expert)

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    Mute Ed King
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    Feb 16th 2018, 8:43 AM

    Leo’s spin department will advise him to stay quiet on this issue.

    402
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    Mute Dotty Dunleary
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    Feb 16th 2018, 8:53 AM

    @Ed King: Leo’s dept. couldn’t give a flyin’ FG! about this issue…

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    Mute Gus Sheridan
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    Feb 16th 2018, 8:56 AM

    @Ed King: keep the recovery going, eh Leo?

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    Mute mick curtin
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:08 AM

    @Tony Dowling: Get over your self – it’s about heat poverty and typically you bang on about the other political crowd. It reflects a lot about a person’s mindset – to hell with the issue, shoot SF.

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    Mute Margaret Mcgarry
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:33 AM

    @Dotty Dunleary: do you ever get fed up blaming Leo

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    Mute paddlingAlong
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    Feb 16th 2018, 11:03 AM

    @Margaret Mcgarry: well Mary, in fairness, he is head of a neo liberal party that aids all and any big business to increase is take in a world of zero wage inflation.

    The governments no 1 priority should be to lower the cost of living, every decision should be measured against this.

    57
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    Mute Kal Ipers
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    Feb 16th 2018, 11:43 AM

    @paddlingAlong: He has nothing to do with prepaid meters that were brought in years before he became leader. They have been around for decades and always more expensive

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    Mute Mick Johnson
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    Feb 16th 2018, 1:24 PM

    @Ed King: this is more left wing rubbish. There is no poverty premium, you get a discount for paying direct debit.

    This is the same crap as with the USC debate. High earners pay proportionally way more to drag country through the recession then when time comes to remove USC, the left jumps up and down because it will apparently “benefit” high earners more, how in the name of God can a cost removal be considered a benefit is beyond me but welcome to left wing Ireland

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    Mute Alan Walter Gallagher
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    Feb 16th 2018, 8:51 AM

    Prepayment metres, whilst more expensive are great for budgeting…top up online to avoid the surcharges. Aside from that you learn very quickly to turn every light in the house off when its not needed, same goes for charging devices, TV’s..theyre great for habit forming.
    For single person it costs about €25 in winter or €20 in summer…what are people prioritising over rent/heat/light/food to be going without? All of those can be afforded even on the dole!

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    Mute Stefan Epure
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    Feb 16th 2018, 8:56 AM

    @Alan Walter Gallagher: yes an you have a 70c per day service charge compared with 20 odd on normal billing…..

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    Mute Barry Somers
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    Feb 16th 2018, 8:56 AM

    @Alan Walter Gallagher: or you could just budget and ultimately pay less with the none prepay meters.

    Suggesting prepay meters as any sort of answer to budgeting makes no sense especially when it hits people that can least afford to pay more.

    People need to just learn to budget.

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    Mute ChuckE
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    Feb 16th 2018, 9:03 AM

    @Alan Walter Gallagher: “whilst more expensive are great gor budgeting” you realise the unit cost is more plus the stand yearly charge on top of that can increase the average bill by 20% per year. Thats not how budgeting works

    65
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    Mute Alan Walter Gallagher
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    Feb 16th 2018, 9:04 AM

    @Barry Somers: Definitely, I agree 100%. However, for some people budgeting is difficult so prepay is a solution – if they run out they’ve clearly bought too many smokes/booze or devoted all of the famo allowance for to the 4×4 payment…its a solution that works; why shouldn’t companies make a profit from it – its not as if people are bound to them.

    53
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    Mute P.J. Nolan
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    Feb 16th 2018, 9:05 AM

    @Alan Walter Gallagher:
    A couple of years ago a guy came to my house trying to sign up people to a pre paid meter, I wasn’t there my partner told him to call back later. I looked up my online electric bills, added up the exact cost for a year and when compared to the figures when the salesman returned, the difference was a few euro. I didn’t bother changing.
    As you mentioned, if online top ups are used there are no difference.

    28
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    Mute Alan Walter Gallagher
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    Feb 16th 2018, 9:10 AM

    @P.J. Nolan: My personal choice would be bill pay for that very reason, however, I do see the benefits of prepay for people who can’t budget. Ultimately if people don’t pays bills it means that someone will end up paying – I’ve no doubt that’s other consumers

    32
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    Mute Alan Walter Gallagher
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    Feb 16th 2018, 9:13 AM

    @Stefan Epure: See my comment above… “whilst more expensive..” ….

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    Mute GizmoIrl
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:09 AM

    @Alan Walter Gallagher: €193 minus weekly
    €25 hap
    €25 landlord top-up
    €12.50 broadband
    €15 level pay gas electric
    €6.25 phone
    €40 loans
    €12.50 CC
    €12.00 ‘never never’
    €5 prescription charge
    €5 non medical card items low estimate
    €2 Netflix
    €15 savings
    €2.25 bins
    €1.07 tv license

    If my maths are correct
    Weekly outgoings €163.57
    Weekly balance for food and sundries €29.43

    I am forced to share so I’m not eligible for fuel or electric or tv license allowance so I live on €193 a week

    48
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    Mute mick curtin
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:10 AM

    @Alan Walter Gallagher: Gammy logic – why should the financially vulnerable have to pay more for the same amount of energy? What a numpty?

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    Mute Alan Walter Gallagher
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:23 AM

    @GizmoIrl: Get rid if the Netflix and broadband for a start, tether with your mobile, you’re also spending more than me on food and Sundries and I work full time! Likewise, benefit is a fail safe to prevent absolute poverty, it’s not a lifestyle so the savings could go or be massively reduced (say a fiver) too.
    Believe me I’ve lived on a lot less before now..it shows, work pays.

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    Mute Alan Walter Gallagher
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:26 AM

    @mick curtin: “financially vulnerable”…which far left propaganda tabloid did you read that out of? Id say there are a few vulnerable, the majority would be pretty cute though…if you believe otherwise Id suggest you sir are the numpty.

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    Mute GizmoIrl
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:38 AM

    @Alan Walter Gallagher: I’m saying that’s what I left after bills for food and sundries.

    I have multiple psychological and physiological diagnoses. I am disabled not on the dole.

    I save because like anyone else I have dreams and aspirations. It keeps me going knowing I have a couple of hundred saved.

    This is not a lifestyle for me. It’s what I have to do to survive.

    I share, not our of choice, therefore I have to pay my share of bills. I cannot say oh I didn’t use electricity today or broadband/tv.

    I have lots of credit to be paid back because I have to get things on credit, I cannot just walk into a shop and buy shoes with cash.

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    Mute Alan Walter Gallagher
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:46 AM

    @GizmoIrl: Being disabled doesn’t stop you working surely? I mean you can clearly type and you are certainly intelligent and capable if debate. I’m registered as blind and I have epilepsy…my employer makes accomodations for that under the law. That said, if you are disabled and can’t work I’m sure there are other benefits and supports available if you ask social welfare.
    As for credit – I don’t know many people who can walk into a shop and buy things…my best advise is to get rid of it. The interest is phenomenal you’ll be paying more than half…

    16
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    Mute GizmoIrl
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    Feb 16th 2018, 11:04 AM

    @Alan Walter Gallagher: it’s very difficult to find employment with OCD, self-harm and bulimia and a personality disorder. I find social interactions difficult. Add that to curvature of the spine, brittle bones.

    You should be aware that you cannot compare your disability or ability to others.

    Credit is the only way I can have a jacket or comfortable shoes etc

    I bought a bed on credit because I needed a hard mattress.

    I find it very difficult to access services.

    30
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    Mute Patty Cullinane
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    Feb 16th 2018, 11:25 AM

    @Alan Walter Gallagher: where is your logic coming from? prepay is the exact opposite of what you said. Prepay is about budgeting. Why should people be penalised for pre paying?
    It should be the opposite because customers are showing good faith by budgeting and paying in advance.

    20
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    Mute phil
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    Feb 16th 2018, 12:02 PM

    @Patty Cullinane: Genuine disability should be separated from dole payments. Those who genuinely cannot work should be looked after better than those who cannot work.

    I myself am living on 193 weekly for the past few weeks and by god its not easy but I don’t expect it to be and wont be on it much longer.

    12
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    Mute Alan Walter Gallagher
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    Feb 16th 2018, 1:14 PM

    @GizmoIrl: I’m sorry to hear you have so many issues but ultimately you aren’t dead and life is very much for the living – you should talk to a professional to get the support you need. That said, you are also talking to someone whose mother worked for 6 years with terminal cancer who didn’t claim any form of benefit until three months before she died (and that was out of desperation)…we can all make excuses, its in our own power to fix things – like making sure the leccy bill is prioritised each week/fortnight/month. You seem to be doing an okay job of it, I don’t doubt that but I don’t believe in encouraging people to not work / be productive where and when its possible.

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    Mute Brian Henoll
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    Feb 16th 2018, 1:21 PM

    @GizmoIrl:

    You do sound like somebody who does not have an easy life and I really hope things turn around for you.

    Credit is what keeps you in the poverty trap though. Just from looking at the list you wrote out. €52.50 is loans/credit per week. That is a crazy high figure and really something you need to address and fast.

    1. Set yourself a savings goal for emergency fund. As soon as you hit that move on to 2.
    2. Cut the credit card in half and put the €15 you were saving every week on top of the €12.50 = €27.50 per week. When that is paid off move to 3.
    3. Start paying off your loans and add the €27.50 on top of the €40 per month = €67.50 per week.

    Rules :
    -Don’t buy anything on a credit card ever!
    -If you have to spend from your emergency fund, revert to step 1. Save until you hit the goal again. Then continue with the rest.

    It won’t be easy but you will be amazed on how fast everything compounds and within a relative short period of time you will have so much more money to spend on you and your dreams.

    Hope it works out for you.

    10
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    Mute GizmoIrl
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    Feb 16th 2018, 1:59 PM

    @Brian Henoll: thanks for advice Brian. I have got better with the credit card and use it as a delay payment option so I buy something today I don’t have to pay for it until April 12th. It’s nearly two months of delay. So I avoid CC interest, I do pay interest on Credit union loan but it’s small. I think I have it worked out.

    5
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    Mute GizmoIrl
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    Feb 16th 2018, 2:06 PM

    @Alan Walter Gallagher: it’s disappointing to see someone do the good abled bodies vs bad abled bodies. Your abilities or your mothers have no impact on my abilities. Neither of you have a mental health illness try saying that in an interview and see how you get on. Try saying I can’t wear the uniform cause I have weeping wounds on my arms. It’s not so easy. I’m delighted you live a full life and had support in doing that. I don’t have a ‘trendy’ mental illness so support isn’t readily offered.

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    Mute purple rain
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    Feb 16th 2018, 2:11 PM

    @Alan Walter Gallagher: great way to learn lol

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    Mute Karl Monaghan
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    Feb 16th 2018, 2:33 PM

    ESB will install these prepay meters and charge the standard rate, so why would you pay a higher charge to these other providers??

    My next question, if you are giving them the money upfront, because you have to be in credit all the time, should you not be entitled to a better rate than the bill pay, as you are now committed to permanently being in credit with the provider – seems a bit mean spirited that you keep them in credit and they “reward” you by charging you more!!! Only in Ireland!!!

    Last question, bit of a techie one, do you know the way people in the US are having a hissy fit over digital meters being installed because the new digital meter is able to be more “accurate” than the old analogue meter at reading usage from devices like phone chargers, tv’s, are you not a turkey voting for Christmas having one of these digital meters installed??

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    Mute Elizabeth Gregory
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    Feb 16th 2018, 11:57 PM

    @Alan Walter Gallagher: it’s not as though people are bound to them? Are you for real???? I moved into a house 3 years ago with one of these expensive, unrequested meters. I asked them to remove it as I had a 7 year history with the company of being in credit due to regular, weekly direct debits. I was quoted €250 to go from prepay to DD – with the same frigging company!!!!! It’s a bloody joke. I have to pay premium costs for my utilities because my landlord decided it. It’s not only unfair it’s hitting the people who can least afford it. And yes…..I am bound to prepay. I have NO choice

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    Mute Colm O'Leary
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    Feb 17th 2018, 5:49 AM

    @Alan Walter Gallagher: quite simply, a prepay meter is designed to make payments and the supply of electricity the customers problem, rather than the electricity suppliers. They get paid for electricity, and then it’s their responsibility to see that you burn through that electricity as quickly as possible, where as if paying in the traditional way, its is their problem to get the money out of you at the end of two months. If you haven’t paid off your previous bill your next one automatically is shown in arrears, even if you only owe them 50c Everything is placed under the shadow of “arrears” and then your put under pressure to pay up Now or take a meter. Well I can tell you, it’ll be a cold day in hell before they are let put one of those things into my house!

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    Mute ChuckE
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    Feb 16th 2018, 9:01 AM

    Pre pay meters are an absolute scam. An older guy in work living on his own who is tight for money as he has a mortgage etc was conned and yes you could only use the word conned into installing a prepay meter by the main prepay supplier. He was led to believe that he would make huge savings. Before he even started he was landed with a €170 service change on top of the top up payments. Finally sat him down with switcher.ie to find another supplier only to be told by the prepay provider that it costs €120 to have the meter removed. Its a scam and nothing less

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    Mute Patricia McCarthy
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    Feb 16th 2018, 9:35 AM

    @ChuckE: Yes, it another sly way to steal from the elderly and poor. People on prepay pay twice as much on standing charges as well. Legalised Theft is rife in this country.

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    Mute mick curtin
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:11 AM

    @ChuckE: It is cruel.

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    Mute Gary Casserly
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:34 AM

    @ChuckE: ‘YOU’RE in control’ yeah right

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    Mute Kal Ipers
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    Feb 16th 2018, 11:46 AM

    @ChuckE: Conned? You mean they gave him all the information and he didn’t bother paying attention.

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    Mute Patricia McCarthy
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    Feb 16th 2018, 12:08 PM

    @Kal Ipers: They made him an offer he couldn’t refuse. A 20 page contract that he would have to pay them to get out of. That charge for cancello was in small print on the bottom of paragraph 50.

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    Mute Sean Conway
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    Feb 16th 2018, 12:45 PM

    @ChuckE: If your wealthy a heating bill is just loose change. heating bills should be means tested because it’s so vital.

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    Mute Patricia McCarthy
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    Feb 16th 2018, 1:26 PM

    @Sean Conway: I agree totally. People living in substandard accommodation are paying the same standing charge as a Landowner living in a Mansion. The poor ways subside the rich in Ireland.

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    Mute Patty Cullinane
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    Feb 16th 2018, 8:55 AM

    Administration charges for topping up or making weekly payments things such as heat and waste charges and toll charges, etc….is a scam. And once again..it charges people who are barely making ends meets for being poor. Essentially, it is a “Poor Tax”. It is discriminatory. Car insurance companies due the the same thing if you are forced to pay your insurance monthly. They charge extra fees monthly for the privelage of taking your money.

    ESB(Electric Ireland)customers can get a top up card from them thru the post, and take it to An Post as often as you like to top up your electricity. There are no fees for doing this. All top up essential services should be done lime this thru An Post.

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    Mute Rathminder
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    Feb 16th 2018, 9:31 AM

    @Patty Cullinane: I didn’t realize that you incur no additional fees if you pay for metered heating at the Post, thank you. I pay monthly, but this information is worthy of large and colourful signs to inform the public. I hated the additional fees to pay auto insurance monthly, but when finances were tight, it was nearly impossible to pay it all at once.

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    Mute Patty Cullinane
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:05 AM

    @Rathminder….yes. Just ring Electric Ireland, if they are your carrier, and ask them to post you them their top up pay in advance card. It is called Easy Pay Electricity. They will send it out to you with your name and acct number on it. You can take it to your local An Post and top it up as often and as much as you want with no admin charges. No fees. Everything you put on the card goes toward your electric bill. I have been doing this for 4 years now. I put €10 euro a week on it without fail. I am always in credit; and when I get vouchers from supervalu in the post, i can add them to my electric ireland account as a credit.. A €2.50 voucher from supervalu translates to a €5 credit on your electric bill.

    You are right…it is worthy of large colourful signs to inform the public, but like everything in Ireland…if you don’t know the secret handshake, it is hell trying to get info. I found out by ringing Electric Ireland and asking if they had a prepay system.

    I hope this helps you and anyone else who is interested.

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    Mute Cindy Crawford
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:23 AM

    @Patty Cullinane: I do the same, pay weekly with an ESB card at the Post Office. Get a TV stamp at the same time. It’s great when the bills comes in to know that they’re paid.

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    Mute Patty Cullinane
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:42 AM

    @Cindy Crawford: thanks for the tv stamp info. Now I didn’t realise that was an option until very recently. I have started that too now.

    It really does help to put money on the Easy Pay Electric Ireland Card on a weekly basis….all year. Because in the summer months, when electricity usage is less…it builds up pretty nicely for the higher usage winter months. It is the summer months buildup that keeps me in the black.
    Everyone should open an online Electric Ireland account, if that is possible, so that you can check that your credit is being applied to your account. Always keep your receipts from An Post in case there is an issue of credit not being properly applied. Do this as a precaution. I have never had any problems though…but you never know.

    Also…the supervalu vouchers I was talking about are the cash vouchers, not the ones that say if you spend this much you get that much off. The cash vouchers come in €2.50 and €5.00 increments. Don’t use them as face value cash in the shop. Always apply them to your electric bill, as their face value doubles when you apply them to your Electric Ireland account. But you will need to have an online Real Rewards account thru Supervalu to apply them to your electric bill.

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    Mute Colette Kearns
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    Feb 16th 2018, 9:04 AM

    I have one for my gas & I put 20/25 euro on it every week including during the summer. So by September/ October I have no worries about large bills coming in the door!

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    Mute Hurt Stoogie
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:09 AM

    @Colette Kearns: you won’t get bills regardless. It’s pre pay, not bill pay.

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    Mute Trevor Beale
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:19 AM

    @Colette Kearns: Why not just pay 20/25 euro per week on standard electricity and get more for your buck?

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    Mute Patty Cullinane
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:48 AM

    @Hurt Stoogie: yes..you still get a bill. But the bill shows any credit that has been applied to the account. It will also show if you are in total credit and what that credit is, or it will show if you have an outstanding balance that will be either debited or pay by check in the post or in person…whatever your arrangement with Electric Ireland is. Either way…it is still a bill.

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    Mute Patty Cullinane
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:58 AM

    @Trevor Beale: there is no more bang for your buck by NOT pre paying on an Easy Pay Electricity card. What you are doing by using the Easy Pay system at An Post is exactly what it says….you are prepaying in order to avoid large electric bills, especially during the Winter months. It helps give a little peace of mind to know that you’re not going to get hit with a huge bill that has to be paid all at once. Pre paying thu An Post is free of admin charges and fees. There is no down side to this practice. It is just paying your whole or partial bill in advance, and giving the customer the ability to build up electricty credit. It is a good system for anyone to avail of.

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    Mute Trevor Beale
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    Feb 16th 2018, 1:28 PM

    @Patty Cullinane: That’s the point I’m making Patty. Why have pre pay electricity when you can pay weekly on a bill account for a cheaper service.

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    Mute Patty Cullinane
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    Feb 16th 2018, 3:06 PM

    @Trevor Beale: ok…I see what you are saying now. It sounded at first like we were talking about 2 different things. I was using ‘pre pay’ as an umbrella term for the Easy Pay card from Electric Ireland(ESB); and you were being more specific. I understand now what you meant.

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    Mute Trevor Beale
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    Feb 16th 2018, 3:49 PM

    @Patty Cullinane: All good Patty. I do it myself, so when the dd is taken its usually only a couple of euro.

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    Mute Ciaran Whyte
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    Feb 16th 2018, 8:49 AM

    Installing a system that makes you pay more, simply because you can’t budget, is madness. The psychology of “at least I don’t have a bill” is idiotic at best.

    Not having enough money, doesn’t excuse you for being bad it’s money.

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    Mute Theunpopularpopulist
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    Feb 16th 2018, 8:56 AM

    @Ciaran Whyte: I think it’s not quite so simple.

    People who may have a history of bad debts with utility companies won’t get any other type of account.

    You can’t blame the utility companies either really.

    Also landlords might install the pre pay meters so they’re not left with a bill should the tenant not pay.

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    Mute Sean
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    Feb 16th 2018, 9:08 AM

    @Theunpopularpopulist: Landlords don’t typically install pre-pay meters. Tenants take the utility bills into their own names at start of tenancy so the landlord isn’t left with the bill anyway. The bill attaches to the tenant and not the property.

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    Mute P.J. Nolan
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    Feb 16th 2018, 9:08 AM

    @Theunpopularpopulist:
    They certainly have become very popular among landlords

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    Mute Mary Murphy
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    Feb 16th 2018, 9:20 AM

    @P.J. Nolan: yes because when tenants don’t pay the supplier takes action. You are correct that the bill attaches to the tenant…but the action is taken against the property by the supplier and that includes forcibly installing a pre pay meter

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    Mute Nick Allen
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    Feb 16th 2018, 9:28 AM

    @Ciaran Whyte:

    You say yourself that when people can’t budget they install the system. Surely this makes sense rather than is madness and although more expensive it helps them wither their budgeting.

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    Mute P.J. Nolan
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:02 AM

    @Mary Murphy:
    Correct, I have seen Bord Gas insist on a pre paid gas meter also in a student house.

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    Mute mick curtin
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:20 AM

    @Theunpopularpopulist: but why should they pay a higher premium per unit?

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    Mute Patty Cullinane
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    Feb 16th 2018, 11:05 AM

    @Ciaran Whyte: you are missing the point. The Easypay Electricity card does not make anyone pay more. And it does exactly what you say it doesn’t…it helps budget money.
    No one is saying they don’t have a bill. Of course there is still a bill. But you can chose how big that bill is going to be by paying in advance…without fees or admin charges, so it is actually being good with your money. No one is being bad with their money or making excuses when they do this…they are doing the opposite.

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    Mute Ciarán FitzGerald
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    Feb 16th 2018, 9:32 AM

    I live in rural Ireland and there is now this attitude that everyone and everything in Dublin is better off and they have it all…. not the case. Two tier recovery is hitting parts of Dublin the hardest. Scandalous.

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    Mute Patricia McCarthy
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    Feb 16th 2018, 11:26 AM

    @Ciarán FitzGerald: There is a lot of poverty in the country as well. But it is hidden. People are too ashamed to admit they are finding it hard to make ends meet. Because they are surrounded by the well off deVoters of FF and FG.

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    Mute Patrick J. O'Rourke
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    Feb 16th 2018, 12:06 PM

    @Ciarán FitzGerald: Absolutely. For many when it comes to prepay heating for rural homes it means at best half filling the oil tank with 350 yoyos of Saudi’s black gold or at worst getting turf a few bags at a time.

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    Mute Free speech has to return here
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    Feb 16th 2018, 7:22 PM

    @Patricia McCarthy: Agree 100% Being poor in the country is way worse, especially as schools are mostly not given deis status either so teachers expect all their students to be buying grinds and to be afford expensive Europe school trips etc. I’m from the country & I can honestly say there is no more bigger snobs than the middle class country people who love the local gombeen FF TD& more increasingly and unfortunately worse for those in countryside poverty, FG TDs. The middle class country snobs have no idea how badly off there neighbours are in fuel poverty while the snobs keep buying new cars and demanding school foreign trips for their spoilt kids in the local and only schools making poor students feel embarrassed that they can’t afford electricity nevermind foreign tours etc.

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    Mute Mary Murphy
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    Feb 16th 2018, 8:54 AM

    More positive discrimination for the people of our own ethnic minority

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    Mute Jed I. Knight
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    Feb 16th 2018, 11:48 AM

    @Mary Murphy: I don’t know about that but I do know that a couple of years ago a neighbour had some sales people call to his door, they assured him he would save a considerable amount of money if he had their particular meter installed. They chose the wrong man.
    He asked them if they could return the following week. During that time he deligently researched everything about it, down to the unit price of electricity. It’s just how he is and as people are pushed to the pin of their collar he feels particularly justified. They returned something like 12 days later, which annoyed him, and he was able to illustrate to them that their meter was more expensive per unit plus additional charges. When he was telling me this he said he got the impression that they weren’t aware of the comparative pricing, seemed genuinely surprised and were just rehashing a presentation they’d been trained to give without actually understanding it.

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    Mute P.J. Nolan
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    Feb 16th 2018, 11:58 AM

    @Jed I. Knight:
    Have to agree on that.
    As I mentioned on a different post I had the opportunity to compare prices, I was lucky my meter had been checked almost exactly one year before which left me a pretty accurate annual cost. When I fired off the figures to the salesman (early twenties at best) he was quite flummoxed, funny to watch him trying to talk his way around it

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    Mute Kal Ipers
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:02 AM

    Who do they expect to pay for the extra costs of using the system? They had to develop and maintain a system and retailers have to have certain connections and have to be paid to provide the service.
    It is very clear it costs more to do it when signing up. Had a tenant ask to have the meter installed and had to explain the installation and removal would be their costs not mine. For some reason they felt I should pay.

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    Mute P.J. Nolan
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:06 AM

    @Kal Ipers:
    What little experience I have of them instalation was free? No idea of the cost of removal

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    Mute Kal Ipers
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:14 AM

    @P.J. Nolan: €110 plus vat to install unless they agree a free installation due to your arrears. The removal costs are similar. That is also ignoring the damage or removal of the cabinet around the meter.

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    Mute Deirdre D'Arcy Murphy
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:38 AM

    @P.J. Nolan: I had mine installed for free years ago but now I think they charge quite a bit. Never heard anything about removal cost. Think I’d not be mentioning it if I was leaving / selling up. Think it’s a great way to keep track of bills and definitely NO shop should be adding on 50 c when topping up as I’ve asked the electricity company about this. They have sent them notice to stop this so if anyone comes across any add on s ,report the shop immediately.

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    Mute P.J. Nolan
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    Feb 16th 2018, 11:13 AM

    @Kal Ipers:
    Fair enough, I have dealt with a few houses with pre pay meters already installed but only once seen one fitted, that was free but it was a student house and there may certainly have been arrears issues in the past.

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    Mute Kal Ipers
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    Feb 16th 2018, 2:23 PM

    @Rosemarie F Martin: Fair enough that he wanted to be controlled rather control his own spending. The thing is it costs more and he wanted me to pay for it. He has very cheap rent for what and where he is at about 40% below the market rate.
    I agree DSP should allow for prepaid fuel but it also makes sense to not do that considering it is more expensive

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    Mute Gerry Ryan deG
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    Feb 16th 2018, 1:31 PM

    Got prepay electricity a few years ago. Was out of the house for 2 weeks with everything off bar the fridge. Had about €25 in credit leaving. Returned to meter alarm looking for money. Got a phone call from the operator looking to know where I was getting the power from, low usage spooked them.
    That was it. Changed it and fast.
    Daily standing charge is like a one armed bandit and They’d like you to tell them if you’re away from home for a while.
    It’s not worth it.

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    Mute Lita Campbell
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:32 AM

    The biggest problem is that some shops are putting their own surcharge when topping up. This is going straight into the owner’s pocket and is a disgrace. Prepay can be ok otherwise.

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    Mute Margaret Mcgarry
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:36 AM

    @Lita Campbell: post offices dint charge for prepay

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    Mute blue exile
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    Feb 16th 2018, 11:39 AM

    Pre pay charges more per kwh. €1149 per year compared to bord gais which charges €775 based on a 4200 kwh year.

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    Mute Gary Casserly
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:32 AM

    Reason for pre paid energy is you don’t have to go through hassle of arrears and disconnection.

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    Mute Gary Casserly
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    Feb 16th 2018, 12:36 PM

    @Rosemarie F Martin: Yeah, I worked for an energy company years ago, the unit cost is more. They have to jump through hoops, send notices to disconnect for non payment, not with a pre-paid though. You run out, they say to top up.

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    Mute Gary Casserly
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    Feb 16th 2018, 12:37 PM

    @Gary Casserly: I should clarify so; so that the PROVIDER doesn’t have to go through chasing arrears and giving notice for disconnection.

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    Mute Nigel O'Neill
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    Feb 16th 2018, 1:18 PM

    Every cloud has a golden lining for those in the establishment

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    Mute OCallaghan TP
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    Feb 16th 2018, 6:09 PM

    I know someone who has one of these.. and it’s so expensive to run as the cost is higher than the normal supply..she is going to bed early to keep warm with all power off to conserve power.. it’s shocking.. and very depressing for her..

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    Mute Joe Clery
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    Feb 16th 2018, 9:47 AM

    Is there anyway with newer meters, the prepay facility is already built in.. I think they do have remote cut off.

    That way the expense of installation and removal of the device is not a physical cost and the running cost would be evened out over all meters.

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    Mute Nigel O'Neill
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    Feb 16th 2018, 1:23 PM

    Always an opportunity to gain from other people’s misery in this country

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    Mute Alan Ball
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    Feb 16th 2018, 2:06 PM

    Several years ago three sites for medium size hydro electric generators were identified.The cost of electricity would have been slashed,according to the government at the time.There is the reason we never went ahead.Leo has not got the balls to do anything to change anything.Farrage ripped him a new one in the european parliament and he sat there like a fool with no response at all.He is not up to the job and he does not care…image image image..that is all he is interested in..the fool.

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    Mute Kal Ipers
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    Feb 16th 2018, 3:46 PM

    @Alan Ball: So when Leo was not in power and the government can’t build hydro plants as electricity is private business now?

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    Mute Alan Ball
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    Feb 16th 2018, 4:19 PM

    @Kal Ipers:This is true..it is not all his fault.But the recognition of the problem of privatised power suppliers profit margins being affected by national projects tells a story.Big business always trumps the national interest here and everywhere else for that matter.We are at their mercy and it is wrong.

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    Mute Paul O Faolain
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    Feb 16th 2018, 3:45 PM

    I use prepaid electric and gas and its working out very well for me,I don’t mind if it’s costing more than getting bill every two months

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    Mute Robert Edwards
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:13 PM

    Prepaypower charge a 17.5% service charge for the privilege of having to “top up” in the shop. I’m sorry people but buy a jar and instead of having to walk to the shop and top up your electricity why not put the money in the jar. Then pay from your account and put the money from the jar in your wallet.

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    Mute Brian Whelan
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    Feb 18th 2018, 4:06 PM

    Of course the small fact that free energy has been known for the past one hundred years, but hey, why let the truth get in the way of yet another story, check out Irish man Patrick Kelly site http://www.free-energy-info.com/

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