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DOCUMENTS HELD AT the Department of the Taoiseach from 1983 include correspondence between Dr Ian Paisley and Garrett Fitzgerald about the possibility of a scheme which would financially assist families from Northern Ireland visit prisoners incarcerated in the Republic.
Although the Taoiseach was amenable to the idea, eventually the government found it to be a non-runner because of lack of precedent and expense.
In a final letter on the matter, the Fine Gael leader told Paisley that it would be difficult to justify the introduction of a scheme to help relatives coming from Northern Ireland when no such arrangements are made for families within the State which are in similar positions.
It would be seen as discriminatory, he said, as Community Welfare Officers decided about grants on a case-by-case basis.
At the time, there were about 200 prisoners from Northern Ireland jailed in jails across the 26 counties.
Before writing to Paisley, Fitzgerald checked if there were any plans in place for financial assistance from the UK to Irish families whose loved ones were being detained in Northern Ireland or British prisons. He was advised that no such scheme existed, a fact he passed on to Paisley.
He also asked for a cost analysis. According to the Department of Justice, even a “modest scheme” could cost about £80,000, a sum disputed by the Taoiseach.
In advising against the move, Minister Michael Noonan also claimed that most Northern Ireland prisoners are members of “subversive groups whose support groups meet the costs of visiting relatives”.
Paisley also made representations on behalf of Gerard Hamill who was serving a 10-year sentence in Limerick Prison for a 1977 armed robbery.
For further study, please see National Archives Reference 2013/100/311
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I think that’s a very good idea. If you are a citizen of the state that has paid their dues for their lifetime, then the least you can expect is the government of the day to acknowledge it through a public website if you so choose.
@Tom tom: You’d be making the grave mistake in assuming the government cares.
@Marvin Dollery: You almost made a pun there. Who said you were completely humourless?
@Brendan O’Brien: Nobody said. What’s laughable is anyone who thinks the government care about ordinary civilians dying. They only mourn those that allow them to be seen in public for photo ops.
@Tom tom: No, it’ll end costing 2.75 billion.
@Tom tom: The Irish don’t do ‘digital’ well enough. While I think they should definitely crush this, would they be able to do it effectively? RIP.ie is literally the only Irish website that has ever worked properly.
With RIP, we’ll have to pay €100 when a loved one passes away. With a state run website we’ll have to pay €100 every year through taxes!
@John K:
If a private company costs €100 and state one will need at least€200 from taxes to do it
@John K: I don’t understand why this would be hard, I thought the robots were gonna ‘take over’? surely this is a piece of Ai and a little deal with the next data centre contract and we’re good to go! Not sure why we cant utilise the private sector and keep it public.
@John K: the opposite is the case, once a service is privatised the costs go up exponentially, just look at bin charges, ESB…
Yeah, because everything else that is state run, is running smoothly
@Peter Igloo: Far better than privately run armies, police and fire services, health services…
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: HSE?
Keep it simple:
Jack’s dead, Toyota for sale, as new.
@J B: done and dusted.ie
@J B: wow what a sexist comment to make
Every time somebody dies, there’s money required to pay for all sorts of things. Inheritance tax, funeral expenses, lawyers fees and much more. Death = money for many organisations. It would be a respectful showing if the government actually put some of the inheritance tax towards a national digital death registry where condolences may be added with some sensible policing. It doesn’t need to be engineered like the new children’s hospital nor does it need to be planned for 10 years. Something fairly basic is enough.
@Injustice Cop: I paid 50 euros for gates be opened I’ve never seen them closed
@Injustice Cop: Alas they would have to ‘work’ then so it’s unlikely
While it may seem at first to be a good idea, the mere term “state run” should tell you that it would be a disaster.
It would end up costing millions to set up and many more millions to run it; it would need several unelected quangos to oversee it; it would require legions of highly paid staff to run it; it might not open anytime before 2035; every NGO in the country would have to have an input; it would become a convenient political football and a useful distraction.
The real cost would be about €2500 per notice deducted straight from the deceased’s estate. Unless, of course, the deceased never worked a day in their life, in which case the deceased’s estate would be credited with several thousands of taxpayers money.
Now convince me that I am wrong, please.
M
Probably would end up costing a fortune for users
Why are people so keen to pay more tax?? The same people who voted yes will be complaining about all the tax they have to pay and the high cost of living!
No it’s a ridiculous waste of money, how did people cope before the internet? Pretty sure the dead were still buried!
@Chutes: It’s about the people left behind, who might be interested in paying their respects etc. Where’s the harm in facilitating this?
@Brendan O’Brien: Post a sympathy card.
@Brendan O’Brien: I still don’t get the point. If you don’t know by word that someone died, you’re obviously not this close that (paying your respect” would matter?
Is there another point\use for rip.ie ?
Watch it cost an absolute fortune and be wholly unfit for purpose at the same time.
Remember anti-vaxx sickos trawling RIP.ie during Covid and sharing people’s death notices on social media, very dark minds.
@Jacintha Dumbrell: I remember a certain lefty called Mr Cosgrave, who falsely announced that Irish nurses had died as a result of said pandemic
@Peter Igloo: He erroneously tweeted about nurses although Dr Syed Waqqar Ali (Mater Hospital became the eighth healthcare worker to die from Covid on (22.07.20).
@Peter Igloo: Mamy – far too many – medical professionals died during the pandemic as a result of trying to provide care to infected patients.
Are you trying to say that Irish medical professionals were somehow immune?
Don’t be sick.
Or anything else that rhymes with that.
@ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: I never said anything like that, just stating that Cosgrave posted a pack of lies
@Jack Hayes: that doctor was a nurse?
The sooner the government formation is done the better. We won’t have BS stories like this as filler.
The journalists must have been overjoyed with the snow, god knows how they’d have filled the columns otherwise for the last week!
@Ronan Mc: The vast majority of stories have not been about the snow.
I love the Italian tradition where there are local notice boards where you post your condolences using standard size notices.
It’s too expensive to die now. Only in this country!
I have given my family instructions. Throw me in a bin bag and hurl me into the sea, and absolutely no online message (or as legally close to that as you can get). The funeral industry is a leach when people are are their most vulnerable.
What staffing level would be required to run this service? If information supplied by undertakers would 2 to three be sufficient?
@Vincent Alexander: if people were allowed post condolences on it you would need a lot more than that, it would need 24/7 supervision, so a team of 3 with a supervisor, multiply that by 4 teams and then an overall head of project. If not people would end up taking cases against the state for any discriminatory comments. It would probably cost over a million per annum. I would prefer to see the money used for something beneficial like home help for the elderly.
@The next small thing: Would one shift a day seven days a week not be adequate. It is not a necessary service but one that is useful and used by a lot of people – particularly those in the waiting room and not in a hurry to go.
@The next small thing: RIP.ie were able to run the whole show with just 4 staff with no problems. If it was state owned, it would probably be 400.
Remove the condolences facility from RIP.IE (or whatever). If you wish to sympathise then send a card, telephone them or call around. Offer help. Far nicer, far more personal and far more meaningful.
@Comments Section Closed: The names address are in the death notice. “Johnny Murphy of 2, Station Road, etc. Sadly missed by etc. etc.”
No such thing as a free lunch from our irish government the poor tax payer will be screwed to foot the bill yet again
@liam ward: so where do you suggest governments get funds to pay for services, if not taxes?
I’ll pay directly or via taxes. I’ll pay either way. It’s a useful service whoever it’s provided by.
@Jack Hayes: How much do you want for the Toyota Jack.
Where I live, there’s still a copper line servicing the house for the phone line. Eir and Vodafone both refused to service it so I’m stuck with Pure Telecom who
charge extortionate rates.
I contacted the competition regulator and Comreg only to be told tough.
So much for a competition regulator.
Stop buying the irish times vote with your pocket there grave robbers
This government is already dead to me.
@Shane O Mac: cool
Considering the amount of tax we pay why not , oh i forgot the ffg entitled wasters are too concerned for thier wealthy mates, the couldn’t give a f for ordinary irish citizens
The state should get the co.cos to maintain the roads and fill the potholes so we don’t end up dead.
@Tony Hanson: The councils should be able to raise local taxes to do this.
@Me Me: councils don’t spend money for the people. They would ignore the potholes and buy a new limo for the mayor
Conceptually a good idea, but practically the government would spend a fortune on it. It would be cheaper for them to buy and then licence the existing RIP.ie site on the basis that clients do not pay. There are many ways to monetize a site like RIP.ie without charging your content generators.
Could they try look after the living first
It definitely needs to be called “Mournhub” or “Jez, did you hear who died”
Why does the state have to be involved in everything
@John Purcell: Lmao… but they do nothing?
Can you imagine the cost of the state created it, it would make riip look like peanuts. And they would make it compulsory.
Talk about deflection.
How about the government concentrate on their core business – like soaring house costs, uncontrolled illegal immigration welfare scammers, health education, inflation.
Hue gives a dam about if you are living or dead when they don’t come to see you when you living whiy would they care about you wen you dead
Now that the rip is changing, it’s a win win all around, rip get the money in, rev charge vat, everyone is happy, why would the government Knock that little earner on the head?.
Gosh us Irish are preoccupied with death notices, how about being preoccupied with new born baby notices? probably not morbid enough
They will probably put taxes on it
So will it be http://www.deaths.gov? Or rip.gov?
Nobody has to pay anything for a death notice. It’s the families choice to publish it, nobody cares really.
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