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What would the leader of Fianna Fáil know about phone tapping?………oh yeh I forgot.
We need to know (in this order)
1. Was the office bugged or not.
2. If yes, is their any evidence who did it.
3. Why did GSOC not report this matter to Govt.
You remember Scaldbag!!
@ despicable,
Bone up on the legislation The ombudsman is under no obligation to inform the government
despicable
we know why the GSOC didn’t report to the gardai, because they don’t fcuking trust them, and rightly so.
Barton..forget the legislation, if someone attempted or did actually ‘bug’ GSOC then something needs to be done. GSOC’s answer was to call in outside experts and then bury the incident. How was that going to help catch the perpetrators. Very poor judgement on their part.
Soviet…after yesterdays personal insults from you I have nothing to say to you.
On point 3.. GSOC has got above itself, the head should resign now, and the whole set up reformed or wound up.
@ despicable,
GSOC didn’t bury the incident. Shatter and the Government are trying to bury it and using GSOC . But fret not the truth will come out .
O’Brien should go but GSOC should stay. AND someone should try find out what happened and who did it.
Barton, GSOC did bury it. They got a report about ‘electronic anomolies’ and told nobody and did nothing with it. If that’s not burying it then what is?
@ Gerry,
On point 3 the ombudsman does not report to either the Minister or the Government and wouldn’t Shatter and The Gardai just love to see GSOC wound up . But this is still a democracy
Despicable,
You sound like a Bizzy. How many times do i have to tell you . Once more it looks like. The ombudsman is under no legislative obligation to report it.
Who does GSOC report to? They are an arm of the state and if someone tried to bug them and undermine democracy and accountability then they are morally and ethically obliged to report it to the elected leaders of the country.
If they can bury this criminality would it be OK if they buried criminality the discovered on the part of Gardaí..no it wouldn’t. Simon O’Brien is an ex UK Police Commander and he failed to report criminality, his position is totally untenable.
@ despicable,
I give up . You’re so biased you won’t even check it out
Actually, any body that suspects they have been bugged are obliged to report such suspicions to the Minister for Justice – that’s according to the Government!
… Should have outlined that this includes GSOC.
Josh..I sound like a Bizzy..I’m not..but even if I was it wouldn’t make my points any more or less valid.
Yes Sheryl,
@ according to the Government ( That’ll be Enda’s statement last night) Balderdash
Josh..I know the legislation doesn’t require them to report this to the minister or govt…but you can’t discover criminality against an organ of the state and then not report it. madness.
@ despic,
Unfortunately your points are not supported by the facts. Because you feel it doesn’t make it true
Section 7(2) Criminal Law Act 1997…Where a person has committed an arrestable offence, ANY OTHER PERSON who, knowing or believing him or her to be guilty of the offence or of some other arrestable offence, does without reasonable excuse any act with intent to impede his or her apprehension or prosecution shall be guilty of an offence.
Not reporting criminality would impede the apprehension or prosecution of the alleged offender.
Bone up yourself josh, must, if it is deemed serious… So if that’s the get out of jail card for not reporting it, ud have serious concerns for what GSOC considers serious..
What a bitter, obnoxious, foul mouthed, insignificant little person you are, IirshSoviet.
Bury the incident ???
Has it been buried because it didn’t happen. Lots of ifs, buts, and maybes.
Nothing definitive.
O’Brien should stay, and if the AGSI were even handed about this , they should have called on Shatter, and Callinan to resign also.!
It was a different times Scaldbag and of no relevance to this.
If people push this and force O’Brien to stand down then he may very well say as a private citizen that he certainly believed that it was the force behind it and that if it was them that it would have probably been authorized at a very high level.
It would have been incredibly moronic to tell the Dept of Justice or the Guards until a full independent investigation was conducted.
The idea that they Guards would investigate this is simply ludicrous.
Who do the GSOC report to seems to me that they are employed by the state to do a job, then they learn they may have being compromised, don’t really know why they didn’t report this to their superiors or do they have superiors to report to… Just wondering
Clever Jake..you seem to have solved this all on your own..well done..can we now have the evidence the Gardaí bugged GSOC?
Stange I was thinking the same…………..But Commissioner and force cleaned up and then rebranded
Despicable you, the problem is the government or the gardai may have done the bugging, if you report or appoint the suspect/s then you give them the opportunity to bury any evidence. Also my experience of reporting my suspicion to gardai, they told me I need some evidence, suspicion is not enough to start an investigation.
Depends on what these‘electronic anomolies’ actually were…It could havebeen somthing completely innocent or an actual bug.Forget the concept of mechanical bugs people with men sneaking into buildings to covertly plant bugs.Thats so 1970s..
So unless we see this companies sweep report,mothing much can be said either way.It might be simply Well you neighbous wifi is interfering with yours,thats why they know about your conference meets down in the cafe from last week.Or Yes this was a deliberate attack with XYZ methods.
…it’s now 2014…these people don’t ‘bug’…it’s all hi-tech…no need to go near a building to intercept information…systems have ‘shut down’ facilities immediately anything is discovered…so no evidence…and GSOC (God Save Our Country!?) is an independent body…not required to report anything to anybody unless they choose…however that’s not the problem for our masters…they want to clamp down on ANY info being released to citizens…period.
And despicable
two things
before you report the offence you should be sure that an offence has been committed and second
you’d trust the Gardai to prosecute themselves ???
Once again this is a prime example of why an independent policing commission is required in this state to separate government from police and oversee the GSOC AND GARDAI. Also changing the position of commissioner to a civilian administrative role similar to the NYPD commissioner and then appointed by the independent body not government would help to reduce the nepotism and the old pals act which leads to a “protecting their own” culture.
And despicable,
You really do sound like a bizzy
Ahh Josh you just confirmed the point I’ve been making ..”before you report the offence you should be sure that an offence has been committed”..that’s what I and others have been saying..thank you for finally seeing the light.
For your information Gardaí do prosecute Gardaí and convict them.
I’m not a ‘bizzy’ but your use of the word says more about you than me, and as I said already even if I was a ‘bizzy’ it wouldn’t make my points any less valid.
MeHole knows a thing or 2 bout phone tapping and corruption sure he’s in the most corrupt party in the history of the Irish free state.
Ahh come on now Despicable, Somewhere in the DNA their’s ‘ Bizziness’. It’s obvious from your demeanor. Either that or your’e a wannabee
Who is speaking like a police man now..DNA, demeanor..haha. You the ‘bizzy’, an agent running a false flag op for your unseen dark masters.
Bury the Non incident you mean.
@ despicable
‘ false flag op for your unseen dark masters.’
I have it ! you’re Mulder
This isn’t rocket science.
The only logical explanation for GSOC not reporting the bugging is because they suspected, or knew, the Gardai were involved.
You wouldn’t call around to the house of a criminal to let him know that he mugged you the previous day!
Who’s to say that the GSOC didn’t report this to the minister and were told to shut up.
The days of assuming that politicians behave with integrity have long since gone.
Are they a Cartel who phone each other and set a strategy, sounds like it
Spot on Jake, and this is why http://www.rabble.ie/2012/11/22/molloy/ We’ve seen time and time again that there is something rotten at the heart of this banana republic, isn’t it about time we confronted it?
Josh..it never happened..ahahaha you look a right plonker now.
Thank you Guard
Much ado about nothing!
Why is FG stopping the Garda Commission having unfettered access to the Pulse system? Why do they need to be supervised by the Garda- that defeats the purpose.
Why did martin say we needed an enquiry to regain confidence in the gsoc? We do have. Its confidence in callinan we don’t have
We are being spun a line that is possible a criminal gang bugged the line and happened to have not only the tech. but more importantly the expertise to do and cover this in a manner that impressed some of the best in the counter surveillance business.
If you had that ability and technical know how you would target the DPP or individual Guards themselves not people who have no information about crimes or criminal acts.
People whose only remit is to look at how the Guards handled investigations. You would not have used information and leaked it to the media to damage the GSOC to the benefit of the Guards.
The State has a duty to respect the individual freedoms of all its citizens and protect those that ensure accountability in those who have power over those freedoms.
Blaming the GSOC is a GUBU scandal.
Its probably a newspaper
I do not think that anyone has suggested a newspaper bar yourself and I can’t see the idea gaining any traction at all.
My money is on lex luther or maybe the joker
Why seanie? The newspapers are well documented in gaining info whatever way possible. Remember all the phone hacks? My moneys on the papers?
The phone hacking scandal was something that the reporters in question learned off their teenage children.
To call it hacking is wrong. It just went on the basis that most people’s Voice mails still had 0000 as the password and they never changed it.
An independent body has already investigated the bugging. They were called in from London. They have already made their report.
I must admit, seeing Enda play the “victim” in front of the RTE cameras had me laughing to the point of tears.
“We must get to the bottom of why GSOC failed to report immediately the discovery of the garda bugs….oops, I mean…why there was so much delay in bringing this to our attention so we could–uh—investigate the matter..”
They haven’t made a report that anyone other than GSOC has seen, and GSOC have failed to tell us exactly what was found. So until they do there’s no proof that there was a bugging, only an accusation in a newspaper article.
The government is really bugging me.
Bugging me too Stephen. Yeah launch another investigation – bring in an outside agency – sure money is no object
At first glance, it would appear that they didn’t report potential bugging to Shatter as they had “suspected” (but no definitive proof) Garda involvement.
This with the cosy relationship between the Justice Minister & Garda Commissioner & their fractious relationship with same would of appeared to be unfounded mudslinging.
Damned if you do, Damned if you don’t.
First questions to ask; who had the most motivation to bug such a high office?
What were they working on that would attract such enthusiastic interest?
I would be astonished if the Gardaí were involved in bugging the Garda Ombudsman’s office. Anyone who would authorise that and take the risk they would be caught would be stone mad.
@willie, would you really be surprised after all the guards have done in the past, donegal, dundalk, Dean Lyons, Kevin Tracy, Daniel Doherty, the guards are capable of anything and I blame every single one of them, the guards who don’t take part in this behaviour are just as bad because they stand back and let others break the law.
It would be more astonishing if dissident terrorists or bank robbers or drug gangs were doing so.
The one body that by its very nature does not have any information on their investigations or trials.
So we are to believe that this very expensive tech was used in a very professional manner to investigate a waste of time target for the above.
Some say that they might have used this to find Guards in financial trouble and susceptible. They could have easily gone through MABS and find dozens of them with no chance of being caught and becoming a national scandal.
Only one body in this state has the motive, the technology and more importantly the expertise to carry this out.
LM, I resad up a bit on the Lyons case. No doubt that the investigation and charging of Lyons was inept but the inquiry says this. “Dean Lyons was not abused or ill treated in any way during the detention. His admissions were not produced by oppression or coercive conduct on the part of
the Gardaí. Neither were the admissions produced as a result of anything in the nature of a bribe or inducement. There was no deliberate attempt to frame Dean Lyons. However, Dean Lyons was able to provide accurate details of murders it is now accepted that he did not commit, due to the manner in which he was interviewed by gardaí. He wished to associate himself with the murders and readily agreed to leading questions which were asked by interviewing gardaí.”
PS My guess is that there was no bugging, unless some spotty Japanese kid managed to log into their network.
William, who ever heard of the Gardaí being caught doing anything. Aren’t they above the law?
Seanie – would it be FF ? – they have colossal expertise in this area in the past !
Skoda, you post contains no information.
YOU CAN BE SURE IT WASNT actual AGS personel that id it if it was them.It would have been deniable assets hired in from someplace for a good sum of cash.
Dagnet, you’re watching too much TV. Think of Dougle, Reality Makebelieve.
So where would the AGS get the “good sum of cash”?
@willie have a look at Daniel Doherty or Kevin Tracy much better reading, as for dean Lyons it is we’ll know that the statement he singed described injuries to the 2 deceased women that only people who were in that room could have known, the person who did commit those murders the went on to murder other people who might be still alive today if the guards done there job instead of framing innocent people, as for that guy on the Tv today representing garda calling for the chairman of ombudsman to resign , well I think there less said the better and if that’s what the guards have as there rep it’s no wonder there fcuked
LM, I can’t keep looking at more examples. I picked one you gave us already and the report didn’t indicate any wrong doing by the police. Furthermore you are persisting in saying the police framed Lyons when the independent report said the exact opposite. You’re obviously just biased towards the Gardai.
@willie far from it, there are some great guards in the community but also some corrupt useless ones as well, ok you refuse to look at other examples which can only mean one thing, ok so let’s look at dean Lyons and ask how did he know the exact injuries these two ladies had if he was not there, that means someone wrote out his statement and filled it with lies, so how can any report say that he was not framed, also what about the people who were murdered after because the guards stopped looking for the killer because they had stitched Lyons up, and if he was not stitched up why did the comishioner apologise to the Lyons family, what was that about
Can you point me to anywhere what it claims the guards involved in Lyons case were corrupt? If I disprove your point about Lyons I don’t have to look at the others as you are discredited. There’s a 200 page report on the Lyons case. Read it before making inaccurate comments.
No doubt there’s an odd corrupt cop but an odd corrupt cop wouldn’t bug the Ombudsman’s office. That would take many of them
@Willie is this the report by George Birmingham former fine gale politician, yea I will take that with a pinch no wait a JCB bucket of salt, are you seriously asking me to believe a member of fine gale and the bar council of Ireland, willie why did they pick a person who deals with guards everyday to look into a problem with guards, come on Willie pull the other one, have a look at Kevin Tracey and then come back to me, otherwise report back to your duty sergeant, I think your refusal to look at other matter speaks volumes.
@willie have you forgot to get back to my last comment
@willie You say you can’t keep looking at examples, fair enough, the you say you looked at the one you gave us, who is us willie, back to templemor with you Willie
George Birmingham, who did the report, is a Senior Council, one of the highest officers of the courts. Now you are sounding like a typical conspiracy theory nut. A 200 page report which states clearly that “Dean Lyons was not abused or ill treated in any way during the detention. His admissions were not produced by oppression or coercive conduct on the part of the Gardaí.” is to be dismissed because of a conspiracy by the Senior Council to do a cover up. Is that what you’re saying? Dean Lyons confessed to the murders.
Your moronic claim that I’m a Guard is also typical of the conspiracy theory nut. So I’m now in an office in Templemore with a group of Guards writing posts on the web to fool the people? Is that it? :))
I’m a computer systems analyst as it happens, but then maybe I’m a hacker who has changed that report to point out that Lyons, when not under any pressure or duress, immediately confessed, when he actually didn’t. Maybe that’s it?
Willie how did a junkie confess to a murder that he knew nothing about, he gave a very detailed statement about locations of the bodies plus horrific injures that the victims sustained, so George Burninghams report states dean Lyons did not get the shit kicked out of him, so what, why would they kick the shit out of someone willing to sign a statement for them, that they fabricated and lied on
The reason I thought you were a guard was simple, no big conspiracy just the fact that anyone who can try to defend the guards in this matter must be connected in some way, do you not agree that if they done there job instead of stitching up Lyons that couple might be alive today in roscommon, was Nash ever convicted of the murders in grangegorman, and where are the detectives that made up the false statement today, willie will you look at Kevin Tracy and come back to me on that one, I would like your view if you have the time, thanks
The “junkie” confessed for a variety of reasons (I though you read the report), he was of low IQ, he was a fantasist and prone to making up stores. He used the questions that were been asked of him to review his lies. In fact he was very good at it. The worst you can accuse the Guards of is ineptitude. You are using this case to try and prove that the guards are crooked and quite capable of bugging the Ombudsman’s office. Which is totally illogical. A single or even a couple of bent guards are not capable nor would be inclined to bug the Ombudsman’s office, it would take a conspiracy of senior management. If you believe that without any evidence whatsoever, then you to are a fantasist and a conspiracy theorist. Your posts have all the hall marks.
Until you accept your reference to Dean Lyons proves nothing I have no intention of wasting more of my time.
PS I find conspiracy theory aficionados interesting. Generally if you belong to this group you believe in lots of conspiracies. What other ones do you bevel in? Maybe the government is in the pocket of a few wealthy people who manipulate it?
…making up stories…
Willie your right, that conspiracy theory report called the Morris tribunal report should be binned as well. Go back on the beat willie you are afraid of reading proper reports, the cops are bent as can be and the weak one stand by and watch it are worse, you still did not answer how dean Lyons knew the details of the murder,
@willie who is making up stories
LM, if you actually read the report you are quoting you will see a detailed explanation as to how Lyons could have seemingly known details only the murderer could have known. I don’t think you have actually read the report you are criticising. Like all conspiracy theory nuts you are just trying to dodge the first example you gave that the cops are bent, that I have shown was wrong, and trying to move on to another. I told you until you understand why you are wrong about Lyons I’m not playing your game.
We also need to know if there is any connection between members of GSOC and the company who got so much money for doing the sweep… The report that there were 3 inconclusive readings suggest that it could be anything from an attempt at bugging to a simple voltage spike or somebody trying to piggyback onto the Wifi. It doesn’t seem like an acceptable result from the company who charge €50,000 for the service.
I read £18,000, still a lot.
It is highly specialized work, of course it is going to cost a pretty penny. The fact we don’t have the capability to do it shows technical surveillance counter measures isn’t an easy thing to do.
It seems that the Company report goes in to depth and describes the bugging approach and how they discovered.
The GSOC are the ones who, after meeting Minister Shatter, came out with the inclusive and anomaly lines.
An expert spin is being put on this, that it was the GSOC who are wrong and not those who bugged them. kenny said they were obliged to tell the Minister and misquoted the law to back that up. He was wrong as.
The Govt. may not know or have allowed this, they probably as horrified as the rest of us here but they have tied their ship to this “GSOC are baddies and who care who bugged them line” and may go down with it.
The current approach has all the hallmark of a cover up.
Seanie – you should be able to give good advise to the present Government – your FF Party were expert in bugging others – journalists etc ?
How is that relevant to this.
There was a national crisis on in the 80′s and people made mistakes. This is very deliberate.
Ah yes, a national crisis no less! That made it quite ok to deliberately tap into journalists private phones at the time and record their private conversations, did it? Can you please enlighten us further.
For a four day total bug sweep and physical sweep and search of a office building. Thats actually a VERY good price in the world of TSCM.
Actually there aRE a few companies and personel here in Ireland that could do it no problem.Unfortuneatly the are all tainted by being run by or have associations with AGS members ,or woukld charge triple the price quoted,and proably hire in the exact same UK company to do the job as sub contractors and then claim the publicity.
Seanie Ya thicko. Generally phone tapping is quite deliberate.
We do have the means to do it, there are two government organisations who are well versed in counter surveillance.
Money well spent, look what came out today willie, ha 18k well worth it to catch them crooks that go around with a warrant card, pure crooks
Three electrical anomalies that could not be conclusively explained, wtf does that mean. Were these clowns even bugged at all, they seem to be stepping further back from what appeared to be such a definite on Sunday.
It’s looking more and more likely that they were not. The whole thing stinks, on one hand you have alleged government standard surveillance equipment used, yet their systems were not breached. Seems contradictory, if the kit used was that good and so hi tech then surely it should have breached their system.
Publish the report received from the security company let the people see it. They are normally very keen for public and press attention so this should be no problem. If that report doesn’t say they were bugged then heads should roll but not before they launch an inquiry to find the mole that leaked this story to the press.
No one should doubt that they were being spied on. It is being presented as something else but their is no reason at all to believe that it did not happen and a lot to say that it did.
It is the signal that was being hacked, the bouncing of information from PC’s and mobile calls etc. So it was plucking them out of the air. It is why they said the Databases were not touched, they didn’t go near the systems or databases as that would have registered.
Fair play to you Seanie, you must have some spare time on your hands as you seem to be constantly on this site. It is quite frankly annoying to have to try and read some of the more intelligent posts here without being tripped up by your consistent alarmist speculative nonsense. I, for one, will wait and see what these electrical anomalies actually consist of before jumping to silly conclusions. I will wait and see what actual evidence there exists that GSOC’s office was actually bugged in the first place and what evidence there exists of this so called government level of technical sophistication. There are far more questions than answers right now and I’m quite confident, judging the public response of GSOC so far, that when the actual truth comes out it will be at variance to what John Mooney write in the Sunday Times.
Marty how dare you bring sense and logic in here.
I haven’t been on this site since early January.
Issues regarding personal freedom and the State not encroaching on the individual rights of its citizens are important to me.
They obviously are not to you and that is fine, you have to earn a living as well.
You might not have been on here since January, but you are making up for it now that’s for sure. Issues such as these do in fact concern me, but unlike you, I don’t jump to silly conclusions and conspiracy theories based on one single newspaper article. I prefer to wait on things that are known as facts and evidence before making judgements, and spouting off the first thing that comes into my mind like a juvenile, over eager Fianna Fáil fan boy. Unlike you I don’t believe everything I read in the paper, or the internet. You keep up the good work there.
No they aren’t that’s why you have your ceann up meeholes arse.
The service cost 18000 not 50k.
I think we should be asking why indeed would the ombudsman choose to go abroad for the investigation when they could have chosen to go to the gardai?
If one gardai station were investigating in depth a major criminal with access to Hi – tech equipment and the station was bugged, who would be the prime suspect?
Who would benefit from the ombudsman file system being compromised?
Why is callinan so incredulous?
Clearly the work of either the gardai or government. Or both.
The Ombudsman does not invest terrorism or drugs or bank robbers, it only investigates incidents where Garda wrongdoing is possible.
The idea that criminals or subversives would use incredibly sophisticated technology and expertise to monitor information that is of no use to them is insulting to the public.
They could monitor all the private phones and homes of the Guards investigating them and never be caught, they could monitor the Dept of Justice or the DPP.
No we are told they looked at the GSOC and that they then leaked information to members of the force who had access to that information and who used it.
I’m sorry Seanie I’ve read a good bit on this. No where have I read that information was actually taken from the GSOC system and then given to the Gardai as you’re alleging.
Care to point out where you got this information from.
It was in the Sunday Times.
First I’ve heard of it. Strange as GSOC says their systems weren’t breached at all.
No one has said they were breached, not even the Sunday Times journalist or the people who investigated it. You don’t have to breach systems or Databses to do this, that is for TV shows.
A parallel WIFI system was set up, it picked the information as it was travelling between computers and phones etc.
They didn’t breach anything because it is not the 1990′s.
I’m sorry I’m not as up on surveillance methods as you appear to be. So a parallel network was set up information was gleaned and according to you this information was given to the Gardai.
That us what you are saying In your post right ?
The question has to be who has the most to gain by bugging the GSOC ? And who would have the most to gain to discredit it ? It seems there might be forces at work in this country that will do their utmost to undermine any department or organisation set up to investigate and expose wrong doing .
When they are caught they will be hung.
Would laugh at the attempts to misdirect this whole story and the sly twisting of the events – if it wasnt so serious. Shatter, the guards and FG want this buried. Only way to do it is to poison the well and blur the whole thing. Which is exactly what they are doing.
The GOSC needs to come out and state why they did not inform the Gardai and the Minister, most people have their suspicions why he chose not to. As far as I know Padraig Mac Lochlainn might try and bring the chairman of the committee before the Dail to get a proper explanation.
Some strange things about this.
1. O Brien looked incredibly uncomfortable last night making his statement. Something not right about it and why hire company from UK he has connections with?
2. Why was it that UK media broke this story?
3. The biggest winners were the agency hired who have gained incredible free exposure and advertising.
4. Why did GSOC not follow their own protocol and report it. And dont state because they don’t trust the Minister or the Gardai. Conspiracy theories gone nuts. Where do they draw the line
The relationship between the GSOC and the Minister/Guards can only be described as toxic with the force styimg the GSOC work as much as it can and the Minister giving them the 2 fingers as well.
Why would they have faith in them, would you.
The GSOC was under no obligation to report any suspicion to the Guards or the Minister, they are not their line managers and their is no legal requirement to do so, despite the patently false information to the contrary given.
Getting a very nasty smell here now.
I hear ye mate. I had incontinence last year myself, but Oscimin sorted it out.
Find who they are. Get them to bug Finance.
AGSI calling for O’Brien to consider his position is dangerous talk indeed. Would they have preferred if GSOC did nothing when they became aware of bugging. Or is their underlying position that Gardaí should not be subject to oversight ?
@seanie Ryan, “it was in the Sunday times”.
Sure it must be true so!!!!
No minister or Guard has yet said it is not true or technical expert has said it is not true.
The internationally used company that investigated it said it was true.
So far everything that the Sunday Times has reported still stands as true.
This GSOC should be forced to resign. They have set themselves up as being above the law of the land.
They are a vindictive little group who deem themselves judge and jury.
Sadly the Government/Gardai response is similiar to how certain countries deal with rape victims and punish them for sex outside marriage. This is a scandal of mega proportions and the victim must be protected!
Good auld Gaurds – don’t think there was anyone in the country who didnt suspect the Gardaí. Who else has the experience of phone tapping and bugging? they have the motive and the ability – but who knows. Always amazed how incensed they get about criticism – i recall a young man been knocked down and killed by an off-duty Garda in Lucan a few years ago after he and others left Westmantown. He had four or more pints but the breathalyser found him ‘below the limit’ – odd that.
I hear the sound of wagons circling and the head of gsoc is left outside
Ok Kieran Fitzgerald on prime is helping no one. He should be asked yes or no question. Were ye bugged.
Ok seems like they never suspected the guards and didn inform the minister cause nothing was found. Looks like the journalist who broke the story has a bit to answer.
That’s not what was said at all Cormac. Fitz said “He could not say they were not bugged”. and that it if they suspected the Garda of bugging the office as the overseer of the Garda they would have had no credibility with the public if they went to the people they were investigating.
Check out Vincent Browne who is on now for the real facts RTE can’t be trusted their like a department of the government.
Once again this is a prime example of why an independent policing commission is required in this state to separate government from police and oversee the GSOC AND GARDAI. Also changing the position of commissioner to a civilian administrative role similar to the NYPD commissioner and then appointed by the independent body not government would help to reduce the nepotism and the old pals act which leads to a “protecting their own” culture.
No idea as to why you got five thumbs down for what was a very sensible comment, just shows the absolute idiots that are on this site. The Gardai have always been traditionally a very secretive organisation, and pretty much up to the time of Michael Mc Dowell had free rein to do as they pleased, and woe betide any Minister for Justice who tried to intervene in the secret workings of AGS. However the government have not helped here either, as it is their policy that all promotions above the rank of Inspector have to be approved by the government of the day, which has always meant that those in the higher echelons of An Garda Siochana are basically political appointees, and not necessarily the best men or women for the job. We spent years down here looking for the disbandment of the RUC with our government to the fore, and we now have in the PSNI one of the finest Police Forces in the world, but who are totally accountable to both The Policing Board and the Ombudsman. Through meetings of the Policing Board, and through the work of its committees, it holds the Chief Constable to account for his actions and those of his staff, and could actually vote to remove the Chief if they were not happy with the work of his Police Force. Meanwhile down here we have a Garda Commissioner who answers to no one, and who is even beyond the remit of the GSOC. So while on the whole Gardai do a decent job of policing this country, it is still basically at the top an old boys club, full of mainly men and a few token women who do what they want, answer to nobody, and spend their time promoting loyalty above honesty.
The only group of people to gain from bugging the offices are the gardai. A curoupt bunch we have
So many issues with this one.
As the story broke, both the Journalist himself and all the security experts who I heard commenting on the story were clear about one thing: the only people who would have had the capability or technology to perform the reported surveillance were at state level.
In Ireland, this leaves very few actors who could have been involved. Given the the GSOC are charged with investigating the Guards, almost everyone (quite reasonably) jumped to the conclusion that it might well have been the Gardai, in a legal or illegal manner, who conducted the surveillance.
In order to counter this suspicion, the GSOC specifically addressed this suspicion in their statement by saying they found no evidence or Garda involvement. I guess they don’t have a PR company/haven’t been around Irish public life long enough, or else they might have been advised that, no matter what statement they put out, they were going to be attacked.
Include a reference to the Guards? Attacked. Leave out a reference to the Guards? Attacked.
That because the Guards have one primary focus which trumps all other focuses: The Guards. Everything else, such as high level surveillance of a state body, it secondary.
Another pathetic performance by Ireland.
@flinders, where can I see the official statement or report that states that the equipment that was used must have come from government level?? After all I think it is fairy obvious at this stage that no one knows what equipment if any was used. All of this is pure speculation at this stage. Let the gsoc come out and say exactly wat was found. Don’t tonk they will do that tho, as this pr sh*t has seriously backfired against them
I am very suspicious of this whole affair. It’s inexplicable. And looks choreographed.
We all know the Minister for Justice and the Garda Commissioner are too close for comfort (e.g. briefings on Garda information on political opponents). We all know too that the Minister for Justice sought to outflank the PAC investigation into penalty points abuse within the Gardaí by bouncing the issue off to the Ombudsman. The know the Garda Commissioner blew his top about it. What was unexpected was that the Ombudsman would take up that challenge with such enthusiasm.
Is this now a means to undermine and take credibility from the Ombudsman?
What we are told is that, out of the blue, it was leaked to the press that the the Ombudsman was bugged 18 months ago. And somehow it is spun that the Commission is the one at fault.
Sunday, we hear the Minister for Justice demanding the Commission explain its behavior to him. On Monday, we hear the Taoiseach say the Commission behaved illegally (a false claim). Today, we hear the Government further saying no investigation is needed – instead the Commission needs to be brought to heel.
Amid all this, we hear the Garda Commission saying the chairman of the Ombudsman should “consider his position” for implying the Gadaí were behind the bugging. Reminder: the Ombundsman kept the discoveries from the public – someone else reveal them to the public and it is the Government and the Garda Commissioner are the ones singing and dancing about it.
Yesterday, the Government say the Ombundsman was the bad guy for not making it public. Today, the Government says the Ombudsman is the bad guy for making public something that was nothing.
I’m very suspect about the whole thing. I was worried before about the relationship between the Minister for Justice and the Garda Commissioner. I am now even more worried (and frightened) by it.
You’re frightened, aww bless, man up
Cholly, do you remember the Morris Tribunal?
What has me frightened about this affair are the signs that the Guadaí are willing to see themselves as a law-onto-themselves – and are willing to vocally intervene in the proper running of the country when they see their privilege being threatened.
I am also frightened by signs of a police service that conducts itself with political bias. And that those in political office feel willing (and are able) to access police information on rivals and use it for political gain.
You can man up, Cholly. And well done to for being so brave. I just hope it doesn’t blind your ability to see danger.
I think GSOC is running scared now and is trying to make what happened seem inconsequential. They didn’t tell the minister or the commissioner for some unknown reason. Obviously it’s more that technical anomalies in its system that was found. What was in the security report is what everybody wants to know? Why did the ombudsman man need to have an overseas security company check his office out for bugs in the first place?
Because who else could they trust I do it?
This really is a no brainier. The guards don’t want to be over looked by anyone so they threaten and try to remove anyone that does so. It’s all happened so quickly over the last few days and so many groups have asked for him to resign…is it not really obvious?
@seanie Ryan
Seanie has all the facts about the case…. Obviously has inside knowledge that the rest of us are not privvy to
Hmmm, report the crime to the people who more than likely committed the crime…seems legit
Who is to be trusted?
The main point is being completely lost on purpose in this debate.. The Watchdogs of the Gardai was bugged!! Who is responsible and why???
People on this site were criticising RTÉ News for not mentioning the story on Sunday until its nine o’clock bulletin but, according to Paul Reynolds just now on Six-One, it appears that the GSOC wasn’t bugged after all. The Sunday Times, not RTÉ News, got it wrong. Ha ha ha!
It’s trial by media…it’s crazy watching RTEs coverage on the story. This treatment of the ombudsperson is sending a strong signal to those who whistleblow or expose wrong doing. It’s scary
Sam Smith on Vincent Zbriwn kept praising the good work of the Gardai last night. There must be a rotton apple there. It seems by all accounts the Garda bugged it. So what? What is all the fuss about? We would want our Gardsi bugging certain people but not others. We either trust them or we don’t.
Kieran Fitzgeralds performance on prime time was absolutely disgraceful. It would seem the ombudsman now think this story is a ball of smoke but are simply unwilling to say so. Clearly they know they messed up and a face saving campaign is under way. FFS I can’t definitively say my house is not bugged yet I have a damn good idea it isn’t.
It’s is very clear to me there is an information leak within the office of GSOC however it appears to be coming from their own staff and going to the Sunday Times and other papers.
Getting shouty is pointless when we have no idea what happened. Trying to spread blame at this stage just makes them look like idiots.
Maybe GSOC should have reported it, maybe not. Who knows at this stage?
There was no legal requirement that they report it to the Guards or the Minister or anyone in fact. Kenny was wrong in saying otherwise.
I fail to see how GSOC can remain an independent objective disciplinary body to the affairs of an GS after all of this.. Have they realised this after the horse bolted? Why the obtuse language in the aftermath of Sundays explosive claims?
Revenge for Abbeylara, Donegal and penalty points etc. all the Garda groups are trying to give the GSOC a kicking.
It is clear now that Enda Kenny was WRONG in saying that the ombudsman acted unlawfully, thus undermining its authority.
This is obviously a very serious interference in what is supposed to be an independent body.
Both Enda Kenny and Alan Shatter obviously do not believe in the independence of the ombudsman.
This body was set up as a result of serious wrongdoing by the guards in Donegal.
This is still a very corrupt country
More evidence of a corrupt
We have all this shat going on internally in the farce. meanwhile .drug.murder kill is rampant in ireland
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