We need your help now
Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.
You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.
If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.
Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
By continuing, you are indicating that you accept our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.
IRELAND’S MOST ENIGMATIC political grouping goes by many names.
Officially, they’re the ‘Reform Alliance’.
Sometimes (somewhat unfortunately) they’re referred to as ‘the Ra’.
And occasionally — no doubt much to the dismay of the group’s less high-profile members — they’re called ‘Lucinda Creighton’s Reform Alliance’.
Whatever they are, the group of expelled and former Fine Gael politicians always insist they’re not a party.
Whether they liked it or not, there were more questions on just that subject for the TDs and Senators who make up the grouping earlier — as it had been speculated that today’s publication of a set of political reform proposals could be a prelude to them at last becoming a party, in a more traditional sense.
“I had to make a really tough call on that,” Senator Fidelma Healy-Eames said, on the question of whether she ever saw herself ever re-joining Fine Gael.
The Galway politician said that though she had been “totally torn” on whether to renew her membership, she eventually decided to let it lapse.
Next to her, Wicklow TD Billy Timmins seemed more open to the idea, noting “a day is a long time in politics” and indicating that he remained open to offers.
“The line of questions coming from the floor just shows how wedded we are to the traditional concept of politics in Ireland be it party political, be it whip system,” he opined.
It doesn’t always have to be like that.
Denis Naughten, who hosted the press event alongside his two colleagues, just didn’t want to get into it — saying he’d made his position clear “all along… Not just today, not last week, not last month, not last year”.
All you’ve to do is Google it and you’ll see exactly!*
The three politicians were also asked why their leading light, Lucinda, was lurking at the back of the meeting room, rather than up front holding forth on the group’s new reform plans.
“We didn’t see the point of us all piling up here,” Healy-Eames said.
Well. It was a small room.
*He wants to run as an independent in the next election.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
Bottom line is young people shouldn’t be cut money because of the lack of opportunities in this country. I’m 26 (thank god). I’m educated and I have worked professionally for over 4 years. I found myself unemployed this year. I am also married and have two kids. My point is.. Just because you may be under the age of 26 does not mean your young with no responsibilities and can afford to take these cuts.
i and i think the majority of people agree wholeheartedly with you lisa,but do you think that these cuts will push lawabiding young people into criminality imo the lame ducks john lonergans heart bleeds for wouldnt know how to live normal lives because of a lifetime of criminality suplemented by handouts.
I think it depends on the support networks surrounding people and their personal circumstances. Somebody with kids and nobody they could turn to if things were tough would probably be more likely to offend particularly in more disadvantaged area’s.
@ Shaun Sweeney. Have been to one of John Lonergan’s talks before. A very intelligent man who possible given his work experience knows a lot more about the causes of criminality then anyone in government or posting on the journal in fairness. Maybe if the crime rates do go up in 2014 we might keep what he said in mind.
i havent been to any of john lonergans talks,but have seen first hand how his refusal to counteract the flow of drugs into mountjoy turned the place into a warzone for staff and prisoners and if i may say without being slanderous may have created as many new junkies as any drug epidemic on the streets.im not questioning john intelligence but many of the people he is trying to help are lifelong criminals rather than young people trying to get off the dole as soon as possible
Shaun is it the case that we just give up on people that are life time criminals. Do we just dispose of them to suit your thinking. I don’t want to live in your type society. You want vulnerable & uneducated people punished but are quite happy with the real criminals in power. The banks & the state have done more damage to me than any drug dealer or criminal. I know I am not alone in that situation. They have destroyed more families than drugs. Wake up stop being a slaved.
@mjhint i havent made any reference to vulnerable or uneducated people being punished you simply plucked that out of the air.but let me applaud you on your false name,keyboard warrior crusade to right the wrongs of our stae a real middle class boy turned rebel.so what happened did daddys buisness go bust in the bust,were you thrown out of blackrock for dabbling in drugs sure look its none of my buisness you keep up the keyboard crusade
No mine did & my daddy’s is still going. I on the other hand am a separate entity to daddy & I do my own business without support from anyone including daddy. It’s just I like it that way. Judging by your tone I’m correct in my view of your version of society. I come from a working class background of which I’m proud of. I see people everywhere in trouble & the elite & those that support it such as yourself carry on regardless. I’m sorting my situation & I have it in hand & expect to restart my business soon. I think I will be ok & will return to some sort of normal situation soon. Unlike you though I am concerned for the future of my children & my fellow Irishmen & women. It’s people like you that have led Ireland down a deadend with no way back.
yaaawn zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz,oops excuse me.and who exactly are people like me,people who dont hide behind fake profiles,people who dont pretend to care about drug addicts and criminals, at least i have the balls to admit i dont care about these people unlike your firm stand on the journal.i defy you to show us your real working class profile or are you going to continue as an armchair crusader
Shaun your a cynic. Well done. A life well lived. I’m not hiding I’m here.
a cynic maybe a hypocrite no.
No just a fascist! And I am working class!
fair play to ya mic i would have felt it was beneath me to label him a facist
Because of a lifetime, (a very short lifetime) of being neglected in society, Fine Gael are the Irish version of the ‘Tea Party’.
The ‘Crime Family Syndrome’ should have been realised two decades ago, the state bred them, fed them and now jails them and can’t rehabilitate them, or educate them.
Let’s take to the streets and let this dodgy government know we ain’t taking it any more,it’s Long over due.
The state bred them and fed them and now can do nothing with them… CORRECT…. You see when you have people who don’t take responsibility for anything they do or say you have a problem…. When I think back to the children ombudsman / woman who thought it would be a better idea to move the juveniles from Pats to Wheatfield prison because they would have more room to play. I thought what an idiot. She has not got a clue what she is talking about.. Wonder how much we are paying for this PC crap… Responsibility should be the name of the game.. You are here because of you.. To the parents of these young offenders they are in there because of you.. If a young person is out there trying to better themselves then all the stops should be pulled out for them.. In this country we reward bad.. What about the young couple struggling with a couple of kids to pay for everything? They should be helped not the parents who opt out and think we should all pay cause I’m entitled to it.. To the career social welfare people who have never worked your on your own. To the bond holders you took the gamble you LOST.. To the TDs you promised this you didn’t deliver you are Sacked..
Top marks Citizen Keen…Well put.
Before the recession there were tens of thousands of people on the dole. People who never got off their backsides even in a time of full employment. Why aren’t these long termers being tackled first?
Instead of discriminating on young people who simply lack job opportunities.
Like many policies in this budget, Its a cynical measure by a sneaky government intended to not piss off large groups of people and avoid mass protest. It’s actually nothing to do with doing what’s fairest. It’s about protecting government.
In other news the personal security budget for TDs and ministers has been doubled!
He makes a very valid point imo.
Why?
Yes Gemma I’d be interested also
Im not saying they will, im saying i agree it could happen. Desperation can make good people do stupid things. Also how is any person under 26 supposed to live on 100 a week. Although my brother is 22 gets 100 a week to live on from his dad and thats to pay for bus fare for college and whatever else he wants. It doesnt include his clothes or food etc so Im referring to the peoplle that have to pay for their own food and clothes and upkeep. And no I dont think all of them will, do I think with the changes its possible, yes.
You dont have to be too bright to know that people with no money have to steal to feed them
Crime has become more attractive in the recession, you can make a nice sum from drug dealing which essentially is a business. I can see how tempting that would be to a young broke person who has nothing to loose. Not many apprenterships around now for those who don’t fit in with the Irish education system. I’m not saying all young people but some will choose that path that might not of if we’d of had job opportunities.
So if I don’t have something I steal, more than likely from somebody who has little enough themselves. Interesting morality.
Ha Brendan welcome to the real world, theft, one of the oldest professions I believe.
I didn’t realise that our jails were empty during the “celtic tiger” years, when jobs were plentiful???!!!!….
We have to run this country like anyone would run a business. If it’s making a loss, there has to be changes otherwise the business will close. Right now we are paying out more than we’re taking in so people are going to have to start understanding this. The government are trying to balance the books by cuts but with little job growth. I say we bring in entrepreneurs to run the country, not ex school teachers who’s job it is to teach children how to be employees, not employers.
@Dmc Oh My god did you get that str8 from The Labour Party website
Business exists to make money there are no school teachers running country who is running it is foreign bankers. So if you want to save money you look were is massive waste and overpayment. The government is the parasite here. When you here of councils talk about their income county managers on €250,000. What do they do? Make? Sell? Exactly nothing. When Joan burton looks for benefit fraud start with gilmores wife
Anthony, going by your pic I guess you like biblical themes. I have a pic of John Paul 2 who is holding his hand up the same way:) No disrespect but I guess thats why you don’t like labour party and their communist roots. Kinda clashes with organised religion. Thoses days are gone Thank God!
@Dmc you couldn’t be more wrong but it’s funny
As for my hatered for The Labour Party its because they are a bunch of lo lifes no other reason
Your right .but start at the top with the people who caused it
‘Run this country like a business’ – and therein lies the philosophy that led to the commodification of housing, the bubble the crash and the crises.
So Gilmore rather than sitting at home watching Flat screen TV’s they might be out steeling them.
The Labour Party have little faith in our youth. What have the labour youth said about slashing their social welfare payments ????
Give us more money or we will rob you? Thats extortion.
No, it’s called desperation and hunger.
Well the government are doing it all the time
Feck sake, a single person cant feed themselves for 100 a week now? Ludicrous idiotic comments.
I agree Steven. Just another excuse for skummers to be skummers.
Just as an experiment, cut his bloated pension down to the standard oap and see if he goes out robbing
A bleeding heart if I ever saw one. The prison service is well shot of him,
Here here Hank!
didnt get your name !is it hank or wank?
i can see its definately hank and his point is valid,unlike yours frank
Is it frank or wank? See!! I can do that too!!
Hank I work in mountjoy and I have to agree with you 100% the man was , is , and more than likely will always be a muppet .
is he another one on a big pension and going around giving talks ect an getting more money for this. ??
4 teachers average age 62 decide from the comfort of salaries of 3000 euro per week that young people who had nothing to do with the economic crisis in our country should pay the most for the mistakes of adults in our society. I am mid fifties and so ashamed of the society that this government are creating. It’s worse greed than the Celtic tiger produced. And who are not accepting austerity and rejecting Haddington rd agreement. Yes teachers.. Who is caring for society and our young certainly not the 4 teachers Kenny,Gilmore,Noonan and Howlin. They bring shame to themselves to their profession and to our society and country.
There will definitely be more young thieves, drug dealers and rent boys because of these cuts, just wait and see !
You think the cuts will turn otherwise law abiding youth to crime? I doubt it. But I do think those addicted to drugs will commit more crimes to make up for the government income they have now lost.
There will definitely be more young people committing crimes because of the cuts , people between the ages of 18 and 24 will only be getting 100 euro thats only enough for rent, food and electricity , they need money for other things as well like going out on the weekend for a few drinks and that
100 Euro per week is only enough for rent and food. Nothing else. The average electricity bill per person is roughly 15 per week. Telephone expenses (to keep in contact for emergency and job prospecting purposes) is roughly 5-10 per week. Internet access to allow for job hunting is another 5-10 per week. Clothing, replacing things such as kettles, dishes, etc. I know a few people on 100 per week. They spend a lot of the week in soup kitchens and eating at friends’ houses. If they didn’t have support networks I can imagine they’d turn to theft. Stealing is better than dying any day.
Are they not entitled to rent supplement?
Not necessarily. Some may be, but I have seen plenty refused. It seems to me, and this is only anecdotal, that those who get rent supplement are the same long-term spongers, and those that don’t are the very ones who need it but want to work
Someone living on 100 quid a week will get rent supplement.
My niece and her boyfriend sit on their arse doing nothing while picking up nearly 400 euro a week between them. She lives in my sisters for free and has no bills, no mortgage etc. He comes from a family who’s father hasn’t worked a day in his life too. We hoped that her dole would be cut to give her some reason to do something. She has had numerous chances with college and has no excuse. It’s pure laziness. It’s more cuts that we need as we still have the most generous welfare system in Europe.
Your sister should kick them out. They are abusing the system. Honest, hard working people tend not to apply for the full range of benefits (because they typically feel embarrassed to do so), so cutting rates will only really penalise those that need it. Those that don’t, or that abuse the system will simply find a way around it. We need to attack and weed out the abusers, not punish those in need of supports.
I see your point but isn’t fair to punish all due to the actions of a few. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to live with parents. As for the high social welfare.. The cost of living in this country is also high. Also you seem to be forgetting the biggest issue, the jobs aren’t there. The majority of young people want to work but can’t and they are being penalised for it. Training isn’t an option for everyone either. Many are already trained but the jobs just don’t exist.
He’s been thrown out of his house but my sister is too soft and let’s them stay there. She’s 23 and has dropped out of 3 courses. I hoped they would stop her dole on the last one.
It’s all well and good saying not every young person is like them but in my experience it’s a large majority that are. Not many have been employed for 4 years and lost a job or are married with kids. Large estates full of kids who never worked a day in their lives and never contributed tax or PRSI but claim dole as a right. Cost of living is a poor excuse as they live with parents. Get less than half of that in the UK and nothing in the US.
This guy has made name for himself for no reason at all. He’s the Irish verson of the kardashians. Why would anyone care what jumped up pen pusher thinks?
Agreed Charlie. Prisoners in Mountjoy ran wild when he was in charge. Now he is gone it is being run as a prison should. John Lonergan keeping himself in the media so he can get another huge grant for a documentary only bleeding heart liberals watch. He gave a speech to parents in Belvedere – he was brutal. John you should be in the circus, you’re a CLOWN.
The sick the old and the young all go first to the gas chamber ,the rich need not apply
Many excellent points made here and it’s great to see people giving their point of view in an intelligent and respectful way. I really enjoy reading the comments section of the Journal but it can be ridiculous when people start insulting each other. In relation to the article I would be more comfortable with social welfare payments if the recipients had to do something to earn it…for example they could ensure that their children go to school, attend parent teacher meetings, do community service etc be an asset to society in some way and this should be across the board, all ages. Why not get people to earn it, this may even result in more self respect.
There is a case going to high court in the uk about a person who was forced to give up their voluntary job in the field they were trained in to work in poundland or they would be cut their benefits, there is a fine line between being an active member of the community and slave/forced labour! We need to think hard on that one!!
I don’t think any decent young person who has been brought up to respect other people’s property etc will resort to crime. As usual it will be up to parents to help them out. When will the government realise the jobs are not there. Most young people want to work and have money for their car and holiday and have social life.
And as for the personal attacks in the comments here. Shame on ye. Address the issues. Think of the kids who have not had opportunity in our society, think of the fact there are no jobs for people with degrees and training and education. And this government want to punish thes people for the mistakes of adults. Play the ball here and not the man. John Lonergan seems a decent man I don’t always agree with what he might think or say but debate the issues please
If they comit crimes lock them up, taking €25 euro off them won’t make any difference, a low life is a low life.
I don’t think someone who commits a crime to feed or house themselves is a lowlife
Some very good points ….
Descent people don’t rob or mug
lonergan should look into his past and ask himself what did he do for drug addicts and mental health prisoners in his care in the nineties……………..F###kall !!! LIp service!!!
Well he did preside over a period where ease of access to illegal drugs inside Mountjoy was the stuff of legend, while he was busy telling anyone who would listen that the prisoners under his control were just misunderstood.
An enormous amount of long-term harm was done during his tenure.
Lonergan is a bleeding heart clown, I wouldn’t pay attention to anything the ass hat says.
That’s they problem with universal benefit payments. The cuts made affect each person dispropiately. Until someone in the department of finances drafts plans for means testing, this will continue. Young people out of college looking for jobs and extra training should be accommodated as they are making the effort. I do have a problem with someone who left school and who didn’t go to further education, training or do a trade receiving the same level of benefits as those stated earlier. Universal payments benefit these people.
Not really.. people will turn to crime to help support the drug habit they picked up while locked away the problem was never addressed and the governors solution …. Give them all methadone and then give them more methadone . Way to go governor . You have a lot to answer for
So true its a certain da crime rate wil go up how do they expect sum1 2 live on 95 euro its unreal dere wil b more homeless cuz dey wont b able 2 pay rent let da goverment live on 95 euro DONT TINK SO
I’d vote for john. Pity we can’t.
A lot of parents are not in a position to help out this cut for people under 26 is discrimination by the time enda is finished with us the age will be 30 ffs
Is it time to re-think Ireland’s approach to failed drug policy?
Join us at UCC Drug Awareness and Reform Society http://www.facebook.com/uccdar
and NUIG Students for Sensible Drug Policy http://www.facebook.com/nuigssdp
Are you interested in starting a chapter in your society?
Use precise geolocation data. Actively scan device characteristics for identification. Store and/or access information on a device. Personalised advertising and content, advertising and content measurement, audience research and services development.
These cookies are necessary for the website to function and cannot be switched off in our systems. They are usually only set in response to actions made by you which amount to a request for services, such as setting your privacy preferences, logging in or filling in forms. You can set your browser to block or alert you about these cookies, but some parts of the site will not then work.
These cookies may be set through our site by our advertising partners. They may be used by those companies to build a profile of your interests and show you relevant adverts on other sites. They do not store directly personal information, but are based on uniquely identifying your browser and internet device. If you do not allow these cookies, you will experience less targeted advertising.
These cookies enable the website to provide enhanced functionality and personalisation. They may be set by us or by third party providers whose services we have added to our pages. If you do not allow these cookies then these services may not function properly.
These cookies allow us to count visits and traffic sources so we can measure and improve the performance of our site. They help us to know which pages are the most and least popular and see how visitors move around the site. All information these cookies collect is aggregated and therefore anonymous. If you do not allow these cookies we will not be able to monitor our performance.
Cookies, device or similar online identifiers (e.g. login-based identifiers, randomly assigned identifiers, network based identifiers) together with other information (e.g. browser type and information, language, screen size, supported technologies etc.) can be stored or read on your device to recognise it each time it connects to an app or to a website, for one or several of the purposes presented here.
Advertising presented to you on this service can be based on limited data, such as the website or app you are using, your non-precise location, your device type or which content you are (or have been) interacting with (for example, to limit the number of times an ad is presented to you).
Information about your activity on this service (such as forms you submit, content you look at) can be stored and combined with other information about you (for example, information from your previous activity on this service and other websites or apps) or similar users. This is then used to build or improve a profile about you (that might include possible interests and personal aspects). Your profile can be used (also later) to present advertising that appears more relevant based on your possible interests by this and other entities.
Advertising presented to you on this service can be based on your advertising profiles, which can reflect your activity on this service or other websites or apps (like the forms you submit, content you look at), possible interests and personal aspects.
Information about your activity on this service (for instance, forms you submit, non-advertising content you look at) can be stored and combined with other information about you (such as your previous activity on this service or other websites or apps) or similar users. This is then used to build or improve a profile about you (which might for example include possible interests and personal aspects). Your profile can be used (also later) to present content that appears more relevant based on your possible interests, such as by adapting the order in which content is shown to you, so that it is even easier for you to find content that matches your interests.
Content presented to you on this service can be based on your content personalisation profiles, which can reflect your activity on this or other services (for instance, the forms you submit, content you look at), possible interests and personal aspects. This can for example be used to adapt the order in which content is shown to you, so that it is even easier for you to find (non-advertising) content that matches your interests.
Information regarding which advertising is presented to you and how you interact with it can be used to determine how well an advert has worked for you or other users and whether the goals of the advertising were reached. For instance, whether you saw an ad, whether you clicked on it, whether it led you to buy a product or visit a website, etc. This is very helpful to understand the relevance of advertising campaigns.
Information regarding which content is presented to you and how you interact with it can be used to determine whether the (non-advertising) content e.g. reached its intended audience and matched your interests. For instance, whether you read an article, watch a video, listen to a podcast or look at a product description, how long you spent on this service and the web pages you visit etc. This is very helpful to understand the relevance of (non-advertising) content that is shown to you.
Reports can be generated based on the combination of data sets (like user profiles, statistics, market research, analytics data) regarding your interactions and those of other users with advertising or (non-advertising) content to identify common characteristics (for instance, to determine which target audiences are more receptive to an ad campaign or to certain contents).
Information about your activity on this service, such as your interaction with ads or content, can be very helpful to improve products and services and to build new products and services based on user interactions, the type of audience, etc. This specific purpose does not include the development or improvement of user profiles and identifiers.
Content presented to you on this service can be based on limited data, such as the website or app you are using, your non-precise location, your device type, or which content you are (or have been) interacting with (for example, to limit the number of times a video or an article is presented to you).
With your acceptance, your precise location (within a radius of less than 500 metres) may be used in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
With your acceptance, certain characteristics specific to your device might be requested and used to distinguish it from other devices (such as the installed fonts or plugins, the resolution of your screen) in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Your data can be used to monitor for and prevent unusual and possibly fraudulent activity (for example, regarding advertising, ad clicks by bots), and ensure systems and processes work properly and securely. It can also be used to correct any problems you, the publisher or the advertiser may encounter in the delivery of content and ads and in your interaction with them.
Certain information (like an IP address or device capabilities) is used to ensure the technical compatibility of the content or advertising, and to facilitate the transmission of the content or ad to your device.
Information about your activity on this service may be matched and combined with other information relating to you and originating from various sources (for instance your activity on a separate online service, your use of a loyalty card in-store, or your answers to a survey), in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
In support of the purposes explained in this notice, your device might be considered as likely linked to other devices that belong to you or your household (for instance because you are logged in to the same service on both your phone and your computer, or because you may use the same Internet connection on both devices).
Your device might be distinguished from other devices based on information it automatically sends when accessing the Internet (for instance, the IP address of your Internet connection or the type of browser you are using) in support of the purposes exposed in this notice.
The choices you make regarding the purposes and entities listed in this notice are saved and made available to those entities in the form of digital signals (such as a string of characters). This is necessary in order to enable both this service and those entities to respect such choices.
have your say