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TDS HAVE VOICED their unhappiness about the fact that last night’s Irish Bank Resolution Corporation (IBRC) liquidation bill was not up for discussion in the Dáil this afternoon.
During orders of business, Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin told the Dáil:
What happened last evening was disgraceful by any standards, particularly the lack of briefing and consultation with spokespeople on the opposition side.
He described the situation as getting “more regressive” and “getting worse”, and said that last night the opposition spokespeople were not given the opportunity of ministerial briefings prior to the legislation being brought in.
Deputy Martin criticised the lack of engagement today on the issue, saying “it is whatever the executive orders becomes the order of the day”.
“This parliament is losing any sense of sovereignty it had,” asserted Deputy Martin, because of the “disconnected way the executive is behaving”. He said they did not know when Leader’s Questions would take place today.
Deputy Peadar Tóibín said that he had heard reports that a deal had been struck between the European Central Bank on the promissory notes. “Shockingly there is no provision in today’s order of paper to deal with this issue,” he said.
He accused the government of “playing fast and loose with the demo[cratic] process of this country” and asked for a debate to take place today.
‘Shameful’
Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett accused the Taoiseach of showing “utter contempt” for democracy and its citizens, saying that it was shameful the TDs hadn’t more time to read the bill, and asking Minister Quinn if he would advise students in the public gallery to do an exam “without having read their textbooks”.
I just got text on my phone saying that RTÉ is reporting that a deal has been done and there is no provision for debate on that matter in the Houses of Oireachtas – that is shameful Minister, are you going to at least allow a discussion?
Minister Quinn told the Dáil he could understand why recently-elected TDs were concerned about how quickly the bill passed through the Dáil, but described it as not of this government’s choosing. He said action was taken because of a leak and to protect the interests of Irish people.
He said that while there are reports of a deal:
We have not received formal confirmation of precisely what is to be agreed and when we have that information the Government will resume, it will meet and it will decide what the appropriate response is and as soon as it happens we will then communicate with the house.
Martin accused the government chief whip, Paul Keogh, of not engaging with other whips on the issue, and suggested the Dáil will be way behind the public in terms of finding out about the promissory notes deal.
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The more I think about this the angrier I become. They are taking me and everyone for a fool. I can’t accept that because we are not fools.
- The timing of the leak and the obvious nature of it.
- Selling out our future and enslaving us to financial institutions.
- Making debt that we should not accept legal.
- Removing our rights as an independent people to steer our own course as a nation.
- Completely ruining the chance of our children to have a successful nation to be proud of.
- The drunken loutish behaviour of our parliament for the world and the future to see.
This is not acceptable and we have to march. Even if you plan a walk on Saturday do it with the protest. We have to let them know that they have broken this country and more importantly the people.
Marching is a waste of your time. Find something else. If you think marching is gonna do anything real you are a fool.
And like you said, you’re not a fool.
So then what do you suggest we do, nothing?
Marching IS doing nothing.
Welcome to the EU and more importantly, the Euro
You should probably Talk to Joe.
To everyone optimistically giving me thumbs down, ask yourself, “when is the last time marching changed politicians mind on a major policy”.
No point in just believing rubbish.
Find a better way to communicate your wishes/demands.
Look at the fathers for justice in the UK… look at the guy with the cement truck… there’s much better ways to get publicity… and that’s the ACTUAL game here…. because pols won’t do it because your marching made them suddenly reconsider their position intellectually.
Well peaceful protest worked to overthrow a government in Iceland over a period of years.. So you can’t really say marching is nothing.. If it worked there, it could work here.
Sorry White Rose Alumini, but Ireland is NOT Iceland.
Find an IRISH example in the last few years…
There’s MUCH better ways…
That cement mixer guy, why has no one done that?
Why are the Irish not willing to be arrested en masse if this stuff is so important…. heck, more people are getting arrested protesting the TV license than any financial collapse crap.
But why are you completely disregarding protest? I know we aren’t Iceland.. But that doesn’t mean it won’t work.. Persistence is the key.
No its not its publicly and actively voicing your dissatisfaction. Sitting at your keyboard is doing nothing.
Marching is HARDLY protest. The pols don’t pay attention, the media barely covers it and the continual failures of the marching campaigns just makes the non-engaged think the marchers are daft. For good reason.
Media Campaign = mixed results
Marching without a media campaign = worthless
It’s not my opinion either, there’s no modern legacy of stand alone marches affect any sort of change in Ireland.
And you can stay at home and keep dry if you have a good media campaign.
Actively voicing your dissatisfaction on a keyboard or in a meaningless march are EXACTLY as successful.
It’s so easy to prove me wrong; show me a march based campaign, without a media campaign, that changed a government policy.
Where TDs looked out their windows and said, “oh shit, people with signs, quick draw up legislation”.
But it is still making a stand. It’s more than we’re doing right now. I agree that a media campaign would help but I don’t think that it would be as successful without having the physical presence that a march can have.
Is there anything to be said for having another mass?
Pensioners??? Did there protest not bare fruits ???
@White Rose Alumni
There’s hundreds of examples of media campaigns, without marches, that worked.
You can’t however think of a march, without a media campaign, that changed anything.
Because it doesn’t happen.
And sure, many times like with the Iraq War, even a media campaign is useless.
I wish people could change things with marching, I would love to see it happen… love it… but… it doesn’t and won’t.
@Donal, that was a MEDIA campaign. A simple march wouldn’t have changed anything and a media campaign without the marching woulda been just as effective.
The MEDIA put pressure on the polls, not marchers with signs; they’re well used to just ignoring marchers.
Because not enough people are marching !
Donal here don’t know why this name coming up. Anyway I was answering your earlier post where you had failed to mention the media.
But in my opinion the media will cover a protest if it captures the attention like the pensioners. Just saying that it has been successful remember we vote for politicians and ultimately we have the final say. At the moment it might not feel like that but if large enough protest they will listen as they have to listen to there electorate. At the moment I am afraid I think the protests so far are very fractured.
If a figure head or somebody of note united these protests the media would be forced to listen. They will cover and in some detail if we make enough noise through power of numbers etc…
@Julie
Look at the numbers that marched against Iraq.
Did that work?
when 40K people marches in 2010 against Uni fees, did that work?
How about the anti-bailout, “march for a better way” in 2010? 100K people. And did Ireland get bailed out?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%932013_Irish_protests
There’s a lot more examples there that show just how useless marches are, no matter the numbers.
So what do you suggest we do sit back and let them do this, I’m telling you now I am not sitting back and ignoring blatant corruption. I will march, what do you suggest doing sit and take it. There corrupt traitors. They rushed to make an illegal debt legal and double it.
Ruairí O’Mahony
I will tell you EXACTLY how I was signed if you’ll be so kind as to tell everyone what record label I’m signed to.
@Julie
I have made a few suggestions, but the basic gist is this:
You NEED the media, if you want to have a CHANCE at achieving REAL change.
The media, as everyone can see, has IGNORED the majority of marches, or simply mentioned it for about 3 seconds in passing.
Find a way to engage with the media, which won’t be easy, but if you do, it has a REAL chance of affecting change, unlike marching.
I mentioned the UK Fathers for Justice campaign earlier… the cement lorry guy obv took a page out of their book.
Make a big public stink, be prepared to be arrested as part of your stink, and the media will be forced to discuss it…
That’s a MUCH more effective strategy than marching, which has good intentions, but is ineffective.
If affecting change was EASY, then we’d all be doing it… be prepared to wake up every day and work on this for months and years… if you’re not then … well.. you know… your chances diminish greatly. Which is why most people don’t do it.
Totally agree with you, people have to get out in force and number. I think media in Ireland are useless they will never be of help but we may be able to rely on international media, aljazera , but I think we have a brilliant tool of social media and once we get people out in numbers more and more will follow and it will lead somewhere.
Student protest look at what was dot to these students peacefully protesting.
Media in Ireland are corrupt and will be of no help no matter how much civil unrest there is, they will spin it, like they are putting a spin on this stupid deal. People power and social media is all we need
Chris Riot Tapes and Ruairi O’Mahony – you are both after straying completely off topic.
Thanks
Aoife
Chris I’ve now deleted that original comment. Please can both of you read what I am saying and stay on topic.
Thanks
Aoife
@Aoife Barry please delete all his comments… he makes the same claims repeatedly… no point in just deleting one…
If I stop he’ll just keep lying about me and my father, who died 8 years ago and can’t defend himself, and I’ll just be the good boy sitting on my hands while he drags me and my dad through the mud…
I appreciate your desire to keep on topic, but… I must be allowed to defend myself… if you’re not gonna stop him from posting lies about me…
Marching did not do the Grand Old Duke of York any harm.
call a referendum.
@Aoife Barry, can you please delete these:
“No mention of how you got signed so quickly and easily, then? Were Fine Gael involved? They were, weren’t they? A little rock band of Fine Gaelers. How adorable. Btw, no idea of which label you’re signed to. And I’m having a fantastic day. Thank you for asking! :)”
And:
“There’s only one liar in this conversation, and it’s not me.”
Thanks!
Hilarious! You brought a smile to my face today, Chris! Thanks for that! :)
Well that escalated quickly.. Lets go do ‘an Iceland’
If Micheál Martin was so unhappy with last night’s events then he should have voted No, but he didn’t. What a sham.
The prat is angry but the deal that his last Sleveen Govt. brought down on us was cancerous. in the middle of the night, though some FF ministers etc had time to entertain Sean Fitzpatrick and Anglo directors prior to it all happening and no one talked about the big story of the collapsing bank, all day.
He is devoid of shame or responsibility for his actions.
Michael Martin is a tool. A complete and total tool of a man. Also a man chiefly responsible with cowen and Lenihan ( not me ) for selling off this country. Enda and co are just as bad but it was Martin and his buddies put us all in this mess and don’t ever forget it.
But yet the majority of the dail voted YES……
Not like FF eh Mehole. Remember it was your shower that drop us in the shi*er on the first place you utter hypocrite
Do you seriously think that had anyone else other than FF been in government at that time, that things would be any different now? Because its kinda cute if you do.
Anglo Irish Bank was FF’s credit union, giving party members and leading lights very favourable loans and terms. FF should be considered the political wing of Anglo Irish Bank.
FF were on power for 12 years up to the time this place over the edge. Cowen and Aherne were both Taoisach and Finance Ministers so I would have thought the would have at least spotted something coming down the track and done something about it.
Short memory mikey.what about the night of the bank guarantee you muppett.
Ah, the beloved muppet word once again…
Was there not a 3 day debate before the parties voted for the guarantee? Did it happen on a late night debate like last night?
The Guarantee was rushed in during the night. It was a scam to bounce the Greens and the country in to bailing out the FF party friends. In return Anglo made sure that the close links back to FF TD’s and leading lights disappeared. That is all that it was about buying time for the party and their donors. Jail would have been a distinct possibility otherwise for many of them.
I think you might be getting mixed up. The decision was made in the middle of the night, but it still had to be passed by the Dail after debate.
Remember, it was passed in that Dail debate by every party, except Labour. Who wanted nationalisation straight away.
There was a long debate at the time, unlike last nights rushed debate.
POTSHOT Martin at it again I see, why wasn’t he this vocal in office Because his bosses were milking this country dry
Not like a debate would’ve changed anything.
If there’s one thing you need to know about politicians, it’s that they rarely think for themselves, no matter how much time they have on their hands.
Micheal has a mandate and apart from agreeing to the bank guarantee which foisted the debt on us in the first place, agreeing to bailout the Galway tent friends via Nama, apart from being a Minister in a Govt. which gave us the world’s dearest bank crash, the deepest property crash recorded, the fastest economic collapse in peace time, his 3000 a night Hotel rooms, the money was just resting in the wife’s account and on and on. Apart from those few things he is ok, sure the above could happen to Gandhi.
What a shower of clowns!! This is our opposition? ? *FacePalm*
I’ll believe that a deal is done when the ECB announce that a deal has been done, and I’ll pay more attention to their version of the terms and conditions. They’re far more likely to give us any bad news clearly and bluntly. I trust their announcements more than the government’s.
have your say