Or will it be a POGRAM ?

Spot on Paul, people you need to know that the leaders often do NOT make the decisions but are guided by advisers who make their decisions solely calculated on risk and consequences, either for the country or the party.
They absolutely cannot measure gamble, they don’t understand the equation of risk, they cannot factor in “going against the grain” because they can’t calculate the end result for them, the party or the country.
They will NEVER stand up because the result could be total Calamity, or worse. They understand income, pension, expenses, they understand loosing that and they can keep it if they play ball.
Patriotism has long gone, where men put themselves willingly at risk because of a cause and not because of wealth.
Wealth is the new king, patriotism is dead and gone, we won’t admit it or like it, we are no longer looking at ourselves as Irish but as Europeans. We associate patriotism to some sort of evil terrorist organisation, to some the very word leaves a bad taste, they associate it with SF, rebels and turn their backs in a flash.
I say this because I don’t think most of you realise that the only way back from this road won’t be politically, those channels have been secured but the wealthy and are the parties are now puppets to a much much bigger and smarter organisation beyond the grasp of simple, easily manipulated Irish politicians who have no concept of the bigger agenda or if they do, know they can’t stop the train now.
The ONLY people, party, leader who can make any change now is a PATRIOT, a man who measures his wealth by his actions and deeds and not by his bank balance. We live at a time where such acts don’t exist anymore, this would be acceptable where a system was not corrupt, financially corrupt….money is the root of all evil, it’s true and it has hold of most of our political elite.
All these referendums and changes erode who we are, eroded our financial independence, erodes our sovereignty and will erode our neutrality when our betters decide that is if it will even be their choice.
God help Ireland, her people couldn’t as she fades away in the distance haze…

David: You lecture others on patriotism and then you criticize the Irish people for not helping Ireland in the exercise of their democratic choice.

@Paul Carr: democratic choice? You mean scared into a corner. Democracy flies out the window when you “scare” the electorate Paul.
Remember only 50% of the electorate voted, that’s equivalent to 30% of the eligible electorate voted yes.
You can imagine that the majority of those who did vote yes has something to loose. Those who didn’t bother turning up were those who are disillusioned or just totally unimpressed (or maybe even not interested)!?, their stance against the gov. lost in their silence. I believe that most yes’ers came out and voted, I DO also believe if everyone came out and voted (70-80% of eligible voters) the NO side would have won, only my opinion.
I criticise no one.
A lot of what is going on is plain to see, it’s written on the wall, I do not believe Ireland voted for cronyism, pocket filling politicians, hoodwinkers, liars or more taxes and cuts, not willingly.
I believe they voted in large against their will, maybe I’m wrong.

Drink girls arse etc

His last plea for a yes vote was cringe television.He couldn’t even read the words wrote for him off the teleprompter without looking the fool and him a school teacher for years…..

@Leslie yea he hasn’t teached in a classroom since 1975 , but he only started in Sep 74 and they thought he’s a Gimp! Get rid of him!!

Stefan I spent 2 hours in the same room as enda and Im very wary of politicians as a rule but he was kind, honest and sincere

Slap
He’s no Martin Luther King, but passionate about Ireland, Greece falls, we’re next in line, He’s just trying to keep us in the game

And what do you consider are the necessary qualifications to run a country?

You could say that about any profession. What you’re saying is that only politicians should lead the country…..

@David What do you think about what our German overlords said this morning?

So we should all stick to the same career throughout our lives? There are plenty of people for one reason or another have changed career for one reason or another.

@ jrbmc: By that logic nobody would be able to become a TD as they’ve all had careers before entering the Dáil, whether it be teachers, solicitors, social workers etc. Apart from professional/career politicians of course, but then people rail against them also.

And I am very fussy about my ornaments I would never appreciate a Kenny ornament. Can you imagine the nightmares… Kenny is a bully and we need to get him out. Thought almost 2 years ago that Denis Naughtan and Bruton was going to do it but unfortunately did not

@David, could’nt agree more, but any man who shows any sign of being a Real Patriot in Ireland will be dealt with very quickly by the foreigners who now run our country.
This is how Stalin dealt with many millions of his people, he ruled by fear, so will this crowd.

politicians won t save this country.

the people will.

Wake up to what, Sinn Féin?

I’d rather wake up to a horses head!

David Higgins I could sort that out for you.Joking by the way.:-P

LOL David if you want a Godfather reference I’d say Angela made Enda and co an offer they couldn’t refuse.

Nice one Rommel :-)

@Higgins You just might wake up to a head but it won’t be a horses head….. Look at it this way, the longer it goes on the shorter their time in office

Seai7nf
Of course they existed in 21 and the seeds if their corrupt mentality had been well cultivated by then, name change 26

Why would there be a push on Susie? Have a look at the most recent polls. FG’s support is very close to what it was at the last election. Enda has generally been the most popular leader over the past year, apart from a recent poll which put Gerry ahead and which was taken immediately after SF’s Ard Fheis. A push against Gilmore would be far more likely than one against Enda.

Short memories. The present Government was handed a mountain of sh*t and now gets blamed for the smell. He’ll leave and the next one in the door will be cop just as much abuse and so on for at least another decade.

Daxe you are dillusional the political system is rotten with corruption ,a banking system that collapsed and their debts shoved over on to the backs of people who pay tax and the people who were responsible for this not brought before the courts only a cover up that is truly frightening ,a judiciary which is out of control and now that we are on endas watch the people went mad borrowing .

Yes and all this has occurred as a result of decisions (or lack thereof) made as long as 15 years ago. The bile and vitriol directed at the man is an awful indictment of a society and media that seems to want to be angry and miserable. Not debating his skills as a leader as I could care less. The Government could have taken x away from schools and left y in social welfare and so on but it’s absolutely negligible in the scheme of things. The best leaders in history could do very little for Ireland at the moment, standard of living will drop for everyone for a long time. As a society we need to get away from such a poisonous mentality and move on. Look how happy everyone was for a week when the sun was shining and thoughts were directed away from austerity etc. If you want to spend your life angry about issues you’d need a time machine to affect then you’re free to do so, it’s your life to waste.

The biggest liars were FF, they are still laughing at us and our gullibility..
Crooked sinister low lives that ruined this nation..

Pete Ness
I have to disagree with you . FG and enda are laughing at us . They and he knew how vulnerable we were after FF made gogsh1tes of us, they had no need to lie , but they did and continue to do so. Liars all of them.

I Loathe Liars Too but it Seems to be the whole party that lie some down right lies and some just by backing up the liars knowingly that they are spouting lie after lie

You could hardly call him a schoolteacher now could you seeing as he has not been in charge of a classroom since 1975. I would consider him to be “A professional politician” who in common with many other politicians started his working life as a teacher! But then again its very easy to be lazy in dealing with the competency or otherwise of our politicians in suggesting that because they followed a particular career path before they entered politics that they should n’t be allowed to be politicians or to be in charge of anything! Maybe we do get the politicians we deserve after all!

What’s wrong with having been a teacher?

The fact is he’s still collecting money for his teaching position and hasn’t been near a classroom since the 70s.

@ Sean Norris Enda Kenny is nit professional at anything not even lying as everyone and his mother knows he is a liar and no-one trusts him I would go as far as call him a semi professional at bullying though Enda to resign in disgrace please

@ David there is nothing wrong at being a teacher a very honourable profession but Enda Kenny is a failed teacher

Well said Bernadette

@bernardette, the point I was trying to make was that labeling our politicians by their previous profession is lazy. They should only be judged on the job that they are doing away politicians as what they were before being politicians while it may be useful has little bearing on how they do their job. For the record I would consider Enda Kenny to be a good politician in so far as pure politics is concerned. However is he a good Taoiseach? that’s a different question entirely and I would say that the jury is largely out on that and for now its not looking good for him.

@ Sean Norris well calling Enda Kenny a Good Politician is where I draw the line as far I am concerned he is useless he can only make speeches from the paper in front if him after that he fall flat on his face and then asked to retract his statement He needs speech writers and that is why he did not participate in any debate before the referendum cos he is no good at public speaking as they say in his own county a useless h**r

He should stick to what he’s good at:

http://thedailyedge.thejournal.ie/a-spoonful-of-sugar-enda-kenny-taoiseach-referendum-471767-Jun2012/

Susie, I hear ya, I’m no big fan of the way they have kissed ass in Europe, (I voted no) but I know a little about Kenny, he’s a sincere man

@Leslie.. He hasn’t earned a single cent from his teaching profession nor has he accepted the state pension that goes with it. He gave up his teaching post years ago and was replaced by a full time teacher. Get your facts right please…

FF didn’t exsist in 1921

You have to laugh. The only response that a FF’er can come up with about that party screwing the country since 21 is to dispute the date.

The descripton of almost every poilitians career.

I think we had much worse with the last shower.
Why they are not in prison mystifies me

There’s not enough room for them all! If you added together fianna fail and the bankers, we would have to build a new mounjoy!

Pete Ness
That is without doubt true . The last shower ( including M.M. ) were shockingly disgraceful.BUT this shower are cowards and liars and lacking loyalty. They fear meeting or engaging with people .

There all as bad as each other! I hope we’ll see a big change and a swing to the left (the proper left!).

Stephan do not forget their foot soldiers in the courts if people knew what was going on in our courts the system as we know it would cease

What?

Brian that’s daft, all of what they are dealing now with was pre-ordained and way beyond their control

Fine Gael did nothing to prevent to pretty feckin obvious property bubble, in fact their version of being opposition was to come up with even dumber ways to waste the revenue being created by the Celtic Tiger.

That’s an insult to bush Jr.

I think you could be right Leslie :-)

Most successful leader of any party in Ireland to date? pull the other one, its got bells on it. The only way those man became Taoiseach was down to the fact the other side made a complete and utter hames of things. To think for one second that the glorious Enda overcame f.f. in glorious fashion is a joke. All he was, was a f.g. leader in the right place at the right time. If Bosco was f.g. leader at the time he would have won the election.

Enda gained 20 seats in the 2007 general election at the height of the boom.

And in 2011 when FG gained another 25 seats people had ample choice between Labour, Sinn Féin and other parties.

You can’t accredit the seat rise to the recession. Sure it got people looking elsewhere for a new party, but with so much choice its significant that people chose FG over all the others.

F.g. didn’t get into power because of anything they did, more because the mess that f.f. made of this country. Kenny was just lucky he was f.g. leader at the time.

@David
Any luck finding out why fine gael were deleting mine and other people’s comments and opinions from their facebook page? You seem flat out on the social media side of their BS so I’m sure it wouldn’t be too hard for you to find out, thanks

The only reason Fine Gael got into power is because they lied to everyone, I wouldn’t call lying to everyone an achievement.

Remember this?

FINE GAEL – LET’S GET IRELAND WORKING
Bad decisions, poor judgement and a Government out of touch with the people have led Ireland to an historic low point
The time has come to remove from office the people who created these problems. The time has come for a new start.
Fine Gael election promises 2011

So if Enda isn’t the most successful Irish party leader to date then who is?

@David
Any luck finding out why fine gael were deleting mine and other people’s comments and opinions from their facebook page? You seem flat out on the social media side of their BS so I’m sure it wouldn’t be too hard for you to find out, thanks

@David, the list of party leaders better than Inda, the list is endless.

David, define success in terms of all the people of this country and have another crack at it. It won’t take long.

What happened to these promises David

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LTCT7QIeP8

I think that he has done a good job as leader of FG, he brought them on massively over last 10 years. As a Taoiseach he certainly is one of the better ones we have had over the last 20 years, a lot of that though is that the bar is set so low by the others. Look at men like Bertie “the liar” Ahern, Brian “the Booze hound” Cowen and Albert “Beef” Reynolds. Would you trust anyone of them to even mind a penny sweet for you. Course not.

Enda needs to realize that being an honest version of FF is not good enough, outside of the corruption and criminality that defines that party, it was also the cowardice and the obsession with protecting their friends and donors.

Put the country first, not just the few that have risen to the top and i’ll name my first born after you Enda, irregardless of gender.

Toirealach Mag Fhionnghaile
You are lucky , your comments were only deleted …. I can not make comments any more on FG / Enda sites . I have never once used abusive language , only asked questions or made factual statements about the austerity treaty and household charges. Hmmm !
So he leads through fear . enda story !

@Susie
I can’t write on their page anymore either and I just wrote in the same manner as you, they couldn’t answer the questions without lying so they just delete them, loads more people had the same done to them. They only want to listen to people who agree with them and they don’t give a s??t about anyone else.

Toirealach Mag Fhionnghaile
Have you noticed that there are FG commenters on some of these posts , who incessantly repeat the same questions and use several different identities ( they some times forget the id they have been chatting with ) and even hack decent people’s accounts . But as you say they don’t give a sh1t about anyone else.

Still no takers on a party leader better than Enda Kenny……..

Fine so, to quote a commenter above Enda “wins by default”.

Oh David ! You are going to get kicked out of YFG for that …… Careful now , are you showing some spine ?

David he’s not even the best leader f.g. have had. To say he is, is doing a great disservice to Garret Fitz.

Leslie, Bosco would have got an overall majority.

@ Susie: Where’s the proof that someone from FG hacked your account? I’m curious because it’s a serious accusation to make if you’ve no foundation for it.

@ David: Enda would probably be considered the most successful FG leader of all time (76 seats verses Garret’s 70 as well as leading them to being the biggest party at all levels). But deValera was Taoiseach for by far the longest period of time, while Bertie won three elections so it depends on the criteria used to define the most successful leader.

Ryan Allen
Why ? There was a false account in my name , now you obviously think that is ok , I don’t .

@ Susie: You made a claim above that there are “FG commenters on some of these posts , who incessantly repeat the same questions and use several different identities ( they some times forget the id they have been chatting with ) and even hack decent people’s accounts”

I’m asking where your evidence is that is was an FG person who hacked your account?

I never said that it was okay, so please don’t be so disrespectful as to put words in my mouth. I can speak for myself thanks.

Ryan Allen
It wasn’t you so why are you asking ? I am curious as to why you are so concerned about something that does not concern you . Thing is it happened . It is not nice to see your name and know that the stuff being written is not written by yourself. I do not see your point .

@Ryan
What would the process be if I did have proof?

@ Susie: You made an assertion and I’m wondering if you can back it up. Too often people make assertions on this site and can’t back them up. The fact that you focus on why I’m asking and don’t answer seems to suggest you can’t back this particular throwaway remark up.

@Ryan
Fine gael are the masters of making assertions without backing them up.
Do you know what the process would be?

@Ryan
if she had proof she’s hardly going to tell everyone here :-/

Well , that is just it . I will not be telling. Suffice to say that it happened and there are certain contributers who spout FG policy ad nauseum and have more than one user name to do so , but you know what that doesn’t bother me at all , I find that quite entertaining , especially when they confuse themselves and forget which identity they are using. It gives me a giggle.

I will not be gagged tho . in my beliefs .

Sorry but what are you talking about ??? So if he hasn’t been at a tribunal or involved in any scandal,then this is how you judge a good leader ??? Some of his own party wanted him gone,he done absolutely nothing of mention in his years in the Dail.He became Taoiseach be default.The man is an idiot !!!

It is because he is useless he does not consider the Irish People all he does is Ape up to the other European leaders he is a Traitor to his own people

He is worse than a thief ….He is a coward, he is a Liar , and he is DISLOYAL.

Spot on dan.. Who do they suggest would be any better. He’s not perfect but a vast improvement on what we had.

Yes he’s made a lot of them alright.

Arse

Jesus I hope you are wrong.

Oh sweet Jesus………..I need a lie down now.

No. I predict Labour and Fine Gael again post 2016 with a reduction in Labour seats.

FF will never see power again, the party will dissolve after the next election

Neither will LAB or Continuity Failures. Who does that leave?

Ryan: The age of reason has gone out the door for many of the no campaigners. Instead, they judge a politician on how he looks in a particular photo. Tabloid morality.

@ Paul: I couldn’t agree more. If SF ever get into government it’ll be very interesting to see how their supporters cope. Compromise and negotiation aren’t just hallmarks of the EU, they are also seen in any coalition so SF will quickly have to do that if they are to enter government.

Ryan while I agree with you somewhat, Paul I have no idea what you are on about? You don’t think that photo is damaging? Cause if you don’t you’re delusional. Ole Berlusconi would love for the Italian public to think like you!

Lads the photo was captioned by a journalist, what in Gods name are ye both on about now? Get a grip on reality there will ye!

@ Diarmaid Twomey: Yes, I’m talking about that caption. I’m wondering how this photo can be described as “badly thought out” when Enda can’t exactly plan beforehand how a fellow European leader is going to interact with him. In my opinion, the caption is very poorly written because it suggests that the photo was put out at Enda’s direction or something.

Also the reaction to this photo shows how easily distracted people are if they spend more time focusing on a photo of Enda and Sarkozy than policies.

A picture paints a thousand words. How many other Irish or EU leaders would Sarkozy act this way towards? Struggling to think of one.

So he can’t plan out beforehand how other European leaders will interact with him?

Well, let’s play a little game. Can you think of any other European leader who Sarko has patted on the head? Lucas Papademos maybe?

Remember this picture? (Juncker and Luis de Guindos)
http://openeuropeblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/fiscal-compact-in-action.html