Interest rate increases, increases in bank charges – time to let one of these banks fail and deal with it. Can’t get much worse than it’s looking already.

Increased mortgage, House hold tax, new water charges, wage reduction etc… Time to give back the keys, see you in court AIB

Dave
Your comment is miles off the mark and typical of the Irish believers in Magic Economics.
Because of State funding you imply or suggest that the Banks should behave like some charitable uncle and give loans of every description below a market rate at which it is impossible to cover their costs , never mind make a profit!
This is not dissimilar to the idiocy that got us into trouble in the first place and you want more of it because “We own the Bank”.
Bank charges and mortgage interest rates at levels the Banks can derive a reasonable profit are the only way to go if they are to recover and give us some of the money back we were compelled to put into them.

I didn’t suggest that the bank behave like a charitable uncle , The fact that they were forced into state ownership rather than be allowed fail altogether ,with over 29bn of funds was for a reason , 7bn was ear marked to deal with the mortgages on the books that were problematic , it hasn’t been used ,for that , they have used the money to repay unsecured bond holders which was agreed , they were shaved to try ensure credit can get flowing to the SME sector , they have been painfully slow to move , the have not been transparent with the funding and it is correct we ask them why , there were reasons they were saved and its perfectly reasonable to ask them to be transparent and held to account , I don’t see how that comment is “miles off ” any mark , you suggested I said they should offer loans below market rates etc I said no such thing, I pointed out that they are raising rates to be profitable but not doing the other elements required from them as part of saving the bank. Your comment about magic economics is just non sensual waffle.

Couldnt agree with you more. Lets just return to a cash society, to hell with direct debits, standing orders, lodgements etc. AIB double mortgage rate increases, Ulster Bank cock ups, Financial Regulator inability to do its job correctly, the Government frozen with fear over what any action could do to its stellar reputation in Europe…major action is needed, radical and normally stupid action.

It’s not odd, it’s the number of mortgages in arrears, subsidized trackers and the depressed housing market. AIB are still lending money to plenty of people I know, it’s just that lending is now prudent. I remember going in the day I got my first proper job, asking for a 5K loan to clear my overdraft, ‘buy a new computer’ (read holiday) etc, and they went through it line by line saying I’d understimated and I walked out having borrowed 7,200. Those days are gone. I remember my parents dressing for an interview when they wanted a loan, we’re not far off those days now. The reality is that people by and large have a diminished repayment capacity, unemployment is at 15% and the level of private indebtedness is still alarmingly high in this country.

There are two options to keep AIB running:
1. Charge it’s customers more interest and fees
2. Ask the government for even more money

I’m paying the fees now, but I have no mortgage so that part doesn’t affect me. It’s still preferable to pumping even more taxpayer money into the bank in my opinion. It’s bad enough that we’re paying back AIBs bondholders without further subsidizing their day-to-day costs with more recapitalizations.

Well Ronan its obvious you don’t have a mortgage because if you did you wouldn’t be defending the indefensible.

I don’t see where I defended the move. I simply said that there’s two equally ugly options to keep AIB open. More fees and charges, or the state pays more.

I believe it’s less unfair for the bank’s customers to pay, than it is for people who have nothing to do with AIB to pay through the government’s balance sheet.

I say this as an AIB customer now paying fees and charges, and as a future mortgage holder. This move might not affect my monthly outgoings immediately, but at some point in the very near future I will buy a house and interest rates are a very real spectre in making a big financial decision.

Christopher, it’s nothing to do with defending the indefensible. Ronan is making perfect logical sense.

Rónán, while I agree with what you are saying I think there is a third point to make. Have AIB done enough to reduce their costs? Have the perks such as golf club and gym membership been eradicated? Have they reduced their staff numbers quickly enough to meet their much reduced business? Does the pay and conditions of their workforce now reflect that they are only in a job due to the kindness of the state. The answer to these questions I fear is no.

Reg you could add to that have AIB gone after the former directors who were pulling down massive salaries and bonus for ‘profits’ which were built on what could be referred to as a ponzi scheme. It is madness that those directly responsible for the state of the banks are pulling down large pensions and many also departed with golden handshakes.

Crumbling pillar banks

agreed Sam. When my mortgage came out of a fixed rate two year ago I wasn’t even offered a tracker as i was told they no longer do these type of mortgages. I used to fix it and pay that way but what struck me in some of the comments was the heartless cruel nature of one or two at the top of comments who basically said I’m alright jack I have a tracker. Suffer on fools for not doing like us. That is a one selfish twisted attitude and shows no understanding or compassion for the rest of us struggling. I wouldn’t be surprised if these people were bank managers with their selfish greedy attitudes.

I am one of those people Mick. I am in my second month of arrears because I just cannot pay on welfare. I struggled for 2 years paying it on welfare and I was barely existing getting meals from my parents but then i realised who am I kidding. This pain for the banks. No. Stopped it because if they dropped my payments I could have kept paying as i am doing now. I went to Mabs and agreed on what I can afford and that is all I pay now. I can’t get blood out of a stone so I have no choice and this is a tiny house less than 80 left on mortgage in a disadvantaged area with burned out houses all around here. What I pay is more than i would on rent and it is in negative equity. The government is doing nothing for people like me.

Dave

Your posting refers to write downs for normal mortgage holders as opposed to distressed mortgage holders and complains at increases in the mortgage interest rates announced today when Allied Irish are already charging well below normal market rates for mortgages.
What part of the foregoing have I misunderstood and misrepresented as typical Irish Magical Economics?
The Central Bank are the independent Authority charged with ensuring the commercial Banks that have received State funding are behaving in accordance with their Mandate and the idea that you are somehow entitled to have this sensitive and highly confidential information suggests how wide of the mark you are.

@paddy , my comment was to ask for clarity and transparency from AIB , I referred to the 7bn as that was earmarked for dealing with problematic mortgages ( as distinct from developers , I used the term normal to try distinguish them from the massive developers loans , so lets call them distressed or problematic but you what I mean , I take issue with fact they are very very slow to negotiate with these distressed mortgages , the fact that they are very slow to get credit flowing to SME again as I have said , they are reluctant to pass on ECB cuts but quick to raise rates again . You seem happy to accept that the central bank are charged to monitor the bailout funding and information that is ” commercially” sensitive..not a good enough reason to not be transparent with 29bn in funding I’m afraid.interestingly a FG td on newstalk this am doesn’t share your view either , she is calling on more transparency for the 20bn of taxpayers money In AIB , there is nothing wrong , wide of the mark or “magical economics” about expecting transparency for this funding , the bank was saved and not let fail , it is completely reasonable to ask they are held to account. Finally , I don’t see where I criticised them for raising rates – I questioned why they were doing this part of their restructuring – and not the other aspects i outlined post bailout – like fixing distressed mortgages etc.

Haven’t you figured it out yet ? That’s Ireland’s solution to everything.
Like putting up the cost of commuter tickets last week. Their explanation was that they had to because less people were using it.

It’s a vicious circle I’m afraid. Bertie doubled spending in a ten year period (using property ponzi scheme taxes) and it’s proving difficult to reduce it by any substantial amount. Then we have been under taxed for a very long time at a personal level because Bertie though that people didn’t have to pay taxes. Not too long ago a couple on say 50k with a couple of kids and a mortgage paid hardly any tax. Excluding VAT on goods and services by the time you factor in children’s allowance, mortgage interest relief, the early childhood payment and whatever other freebies Bertie dished out (like (SSIAs) I’d say the country was the net looser. You can’t run a country like that and so it has proved to be.

Its a debt ( death ) spiral. Its not just Ireland, its everywhere. Personally i like to call it genocide.

It would drive a bloke to drink, if he had any money left of course. We got to do something to stop this crowd of asylum dodgers before its too late. The ordinary people have to unite and rise up against this complete madness. It seems that Endas gang have become completely obsessed with taking more and more off the least well off.

Dead right, where’s Saint Bono and Bob now, when the people of Ireland are being taken for a complete ride?!!! They have the influence and media in their pocket

What would you suggest,that holders of tracker mortgages give them back so they can be screwed also?

Turns my stomach.

I’m sorry but there is n way a branch manager got 3.5 million as a golden handshake. I abhor the way the banks have been let away with ruining the world but that is complete nonsense,

I don’t think that ‘should of gotten a tracker’ is the response 70k mortgage holders will be thinking of when they have less money for essentials.

Looks like you gambled and lost with your choice of mortgage

There was me thinking the banks had gambled and lost a shed load of money.

Trackers are like the Ebola virus now. They won’t even approach it. That died after the celtic tiger.

Nice to see your attitude matches that of your friends and family , you sound like such a lovely bunch of people……

What a prize c*ck! I have it lucky, i didn;t buy into the housing boom but I still empathize with my friends and family that did.

Good man Sean. Smart boy wanted.

To use your own words…take that “top notch” qualification ….”go global”….and please…literally go tomorrow…..