This is the most spot on comment so far.

You’re correct Ray, but maybe when they receive appropriate fines, then that will hopefully change their minds. Here’s hoping.

I just think its so sad that we have to pass legislation to stop people doing something so stupid and damaging to our children.

where did you see it limited to young children?

I didn’t see it as limited to young children Michael. I simply thought that the youngest of our population were the most vulnerable regarding this problem. Older children had at least some chance of escaping from the problem, whereas, younger children had no such chance. I value all our young equally, but there is a clear difference between how a four year old can protect himself from harm, and how a fourteen year old approaches the same dilemma.

The amount of people that allow their young children to sit in the front seat amazes me, and there are still adults that dont insist their children wear seatbelts. If the police can not prevent this type of idiotic behaviour, cant see how succesful policing this will be.

And cars.

Yet they said the same same thing about the smoking ban in pubs, yet look at how thats had such a affect.

And using mobile phones whilst driving….stand on the side any busy road in the country and count the number of people who flaunt that law and how many prosecutions in comparison.

To be honest, lighting up while driving is no different to holding a mobile. Both are a distraction. Between the getting the cigarette out, grabbing for the lighter etc.

What gets me is seeing people driving really expensive cars and normal family cars holding a fon to their ear. If one can’t afford a proper ‘hands free kit’ there is always the EUR12 fons that can be used without having to take either hands of the steering wheel. It’s not perfect but at least both hands ‘should’ be on the wheel.

Which would one prefer? Spending EUR12 on little ear fons or 2 points on licence and a fine!

They can’t ban smoking outright in cars. Are they going to ban me eating food, taking a drink. Opening a drink bottle is the same as lighting a cig.

Very true about the smoking ban in pubs…profound affect…. We dont go to the pub anymore… Meeting at our houses is much more fun and far cheaper too…. Totally agree. Pub smoking ban was a great idea.

I prefer sitting in a smoky pub than sitting next to noisy kids in a non smoking bar.BAN KIDS IN BARS.Bars are for grown-ups who can enjoy a drink and a smoke and get away from reality for a while.

It’s not off the point to suggest that this really is pretty low on what SHOULD be on this country’s list of priorities. It’s a much more relevant point than ignoring that people should recognise that it is legislation for something that is undeniably obvious?

It is obvious that smoking is harmful, we’ve known this for decades. It’s obvious that you shouldn’t subject kids (who are not involved in your choice to smoke) to a confined environment while smoking (or to smoking in any environment).

We don’t need laws to tell us what is obvious – unfortunately, people often like how fresh the air is on their high horse and like to think that their idiot neighbour will get busted for it someday – but let’s be honest, most idiots who smoke in front of their kids in a car won’t ever get caught for it.

Paul, and what about people take responsibility for their actions?

There are many parents who bitch and moan about how hard things are for them paying bills etc yet they smoke 20 a day which is not only a massive waste of money but it affects their health and that of their children.

In short, how selfish do you get? I suppose though its easier blame someone else and then complain when the government does try and bring in laws like this that would have a benefit.

Is It any of your business!! though barry?and i mean busy ness! mind your own business control your own life and your own thoughts! Do some research yourself on passive smoking or carry on living your life being dictated to by others ie EXPERTS AND SCIENTISTS AND DOCTORS!

Yes Paul it is my business,

Like any citizen of Ireland it is my business how my taxes are spent and I have the right to know how they are spent they same as you do.

If we can see a issue which is causing our taxes to be spend on something that should not be happening then I think you’ll agree we should take action…..would you not agree?

In this case people smoke, its completely un-needed and its an addiction, it costs our health service 2 billion euro a year which is far more then the tax smoking brings in. If the government can come up with any ways of cutting this spending then this is very much a good thing.

In this case by bringing bans in for smoking it makes it less attractive for people and more people are lightly to give it up, this in turn will save the government money in the HSE as smoking related illnesses will drop over time.

Paul, you may choose to ignore how your taxes are spend, or perhaps you like to selectively complain about stuff and tell people (like myself) to shut up and mind their own business when you simply disagree with what is a sound and logical law by the government.

Perhaps you should mind your own business about all the nonsense you listed, after all its none of your business if smoking problems are none of mine….

@barry
You are right barry i bow to your superiority.

@’Barry
Hey Barry i know your busy flittering around everyones comments telling them how righteous you and our governors are but could you do one of those lovely long lists you did on the effects of smoking for me please?
but this time in your expert opinionated way could you list the costs and effects to your precious right to know where your tax money goes(apart from the interest on loans that is) on Fluoridated water?
Please Barry you are so clever?

Come on Barry – confirm this €2b euro cost – and prove it’s a cost and not a cost recouped from insurance companies and not therefore a cost to the taxpayer.
You’re quoting this all over the place with little substance.
The only reliable thing that points at €2b is the HSE report which states 6-15% of costs to health service in nations with similar income levels to Ireland for illnesses associated to smoking. And even at that the €2b depends on Ireland being at the max 15% and nothing less.
If we’re at 6% then revenue for tobacco is greater than health service costs and completely shafts your own argument.

Confirm €2b or stop quoting it in every reply.

Paul Drury, accordingly to yourself such things should be none of my business,

of course cause i don’t give a monkeys about fluoride in water and I’m certainly not one of the occupy loons who does, however if you need info about it I suggest you do some reseaecrh yourself Paul as clearly it bothers you

Barry
so everyone who does not believe the spin is an occupy nut
i notice you comment on everyone and anyone yet your twitter is blocked off
can you not debate come on barry lets debate facts i will educate you if your not a wuss! http://poisonfluoride.com/pfpc/html/symptoms.html
heres one for starters you ignoramus!

then you have to ban drinks and food on the same grounds.

If you agree that driving and smoking could be dangerous, by your rationalnThey would have to ban someone from drinking a beverage or eating anything as it may pose a danger. That of course is stupid and moronic but the world needs fools that believe in nonsense. Thats where reality tv comes from after all. Smoking with a child in the car is disgusting and should be banned. Almost impossible I police but won’t stop them from trying

I find this comment amusing,

Others are saying that it won’t work, yet here you are saying its a cash cow. Its interesting that you acknowledge that it certainly is an issue then.

Do you think its ok that a child breath in second hand smoke in a small enclosed space? Do you think the government should do nothing about this particular issue then?

Yes, that has really worked a treat. Just today, on Dublin’s boardwalk, I looked around at the fine calibre of human and thought ‘haven’t we done a marvellous job eradicating the heroin problem’.

You won’t eradicate the problem until you start to eradicate some of the people involved.nn…Look again at the story from Saudi Arabia posted yesterday…

Or changing a cd or a radio station?

Ban all types of road signs too. You must take your eyes off the road to read those damn things. Sexy women in shorts skirts banned as well. Too much of a distraction. Bring in the burka.

sura don’t we all have a free hand when driving, one on the wheel and one for either resting on the arm rest/hand break or for eating and drinking.

Lets just say 1 in 4 smoke and half of those actually pay the duty on legal fags bought here. Average 1 pack a day. €8 duty to government per pack. Adding it all up 1.5 billion (approx) income a year. Ya so you are about right.

But smoking related illnesses are probably costing the state more to treat then they are taking in. Dont know really.

Smoking brings in approx 1 billion in tax, but costs the HSE 2 billion in smoking related illness

Tobacco consumption causes a range of diseases, most circulatory, chest and cancers, but other diseases are also caused by smoking.

These are listed below:

Heart attacks
Strokes
Aortic aneurysms
Peripheral vascular disease
Chronic Obstructive pulmonary disease
Asthma
Pneumonia
Influenza
Cancer of the Larynx
Cancer of the Oropharynx
Cancer of the Oesophagus
Cancer of the Trachea
Cancer of the Lung
Cancer of the Stomach
Cancer of the Pancreas
Cancer of the Kidney
Cancer of the Ureter
Cancer of the Cervix
Cancer of the Bladder
Acute myeloid leukaemia
Stomach ulcers
Cataracts
Blindness
Peridontitis
Hip fractures
Reduced fertility

I just found something that might look at the discussion on costs in a different light.
First – a report published by the HSE states that UP TO 15% of the healthcare costs goes to tobacco related costs. 15% would account for the €2b quoted, however, it is important to note that this number is based on “In high income countries like Ireland, smoking related health care costs account for between 6% and 15% of all annual healthcare costs”

So really that’s anywhere between €800m and €2b. A pretty wide span in terms of sticking to €2b as a reliable figure. The reliable figure we do have is revenue at €1.2b so really you could argue (if you were so inclined) that smoking makes €400m per year for the exchequer. A pretty big contribution from 29% of the population……

Add in that there is no clarity on the difference between costs to the health service and recouped costs (through insurance) to the health service. The failure of any PR to address this allows holes to be picked in the argument.

In addition, there are jobs in the tobacco industry, without which there would be a cost to the exchequer that appears not to be noted. Often, there is talk of lost productivity due to smoking (a lot of this is put down to breaks) – but why should smokers get such breaks?

Here’s a real challenging point that gets ignored a LOT in the costs debate….. It’s pretty hard to take but it’s a reality that cannot be ignored.
Ireland’s avg life expectancy is very close to 79 years. Smoking takes 7-8 years from people’s lives so about 10%. Now that makes the life expectancy for non smokers at about 74 years old and non-smokers at about 81.5 years.
The fact is that this 7-8 years cut from life expectancy helps the exchequer too in pensions which would otherwise have to be paid out.
This is a pretty dark area to get into but it’s unavoidable for a full discussion.

Again, I’m not supporting smoking and certainly not in the presence of kids.

The government responsible for the above was kicked out at the last election. nnLawmakers can work on several different things at once you know. Just because there are other issues you think they should be dealing with does not mean they can’t do this too.

Yes Barry, priority’s,

Tobacco tax brings in approx 1B a year in tax into Ireland, yet smoking related illness costs the state approx 2B a year. This is money that we the tax payer have to pay towards so anything that reduces it is a good thing.

Now as you said people in financial crisis yet they are throwing money away on Tobacco each day/week, money that could be much better spent on them actually eating proper food, paying bills and generally making life easier for themselves…if these people didn’t have an addiction

The more bans the governments puts on smoking the better especially given the issues it cause,

I bet some of the people thrown out by DCC can still afford their fags!!

The more bans the government put on smoking the better?

You think prohibition could actually work for the first time in history? I doubt it.

You don’t think children’s health should be a priority?

Tomy Iona, you’ll find that the pub smoking ban has worked. This isn’t prohibition, this is about health and the implications of people’s addictions on others and themselves.

In this case because many people are too selfish to pay attention to kids health they have to actually bring in a law telling people that if they want to be selfish and ignore the needs and rights of kids then they will be fined.

I find it shocking that anyone can say this ban is not a good thing, kids don’t get the choice of if they want to breath in cancer causing chemicals in a small enclosed space so its only right that this law be brought in

“Tobacco tax brings in approx 1B a year in tax into Ireland, yet smoking related illness costs the state approx 2B a year” so that’s a net cost of 1 billion to the state (the workers of this country) to deal with the problems associated with smoking. Thanks for that info Barry, that’s has blown the notion that some people have that the government are raking in money from the smokers, they certainly are not. Look around smokers, ye are literary robbing money out of no smokers pockets.

Barry – I find it shocking that anyone who reads the packet warnings on tobacco products needs to have the threat of a fine in order to change their behaviour. Please don’t suggest that I think it’s ok for people to subject kids to smoke in any environment, that is absolutely not what I’m saying.

Not that I’m doubting your numbers either but tobacco revenue brings in €1.2b (I know you said “approx” but €200m is a bit of a loose margin of error). Also, I’d wonder where the €2b figure came from. The only reference to this I’ve noted is an assertion by Roisin Shortall that the next decade will cost approx €2b a year. An estimate that WILL cost the state is different from an assertion that it IS costing the state.

You would definitely have to question what vague comments like this one from Shortall actually mean. My father gave up smoking about 10 years ago and has since needed health services over what would be regarded as a smoking related illness (I’m not in any way disputing that it is). When his costs to the health services are recouped through his insurance – is that still being claimed as part of €2b/yr? I have no idea, but I’m reminded of a quote at the beginning of a chapter in an old math book – “There are three types of lies – lies, damn lies, and statistics.”

I’m not defending smoking here, I just recently gave up and am aware that the country in general should not be paying to facilitate other people’s harmful habits which will ultimately be paid for by other people.

Mostly, I’m against the idea of creating laws for situations which are blatantly wrong – and against where that can potentially lead. I wish I could find it right now but I read a very interesting piece recently about how creating laws for things which are obviously morally wrong effectively distances individuals from their moral responsibility. It concluded that when a law exists, people’s capacity to consider the moral arguement is diminished and society then depends on the lawmakers and enforcers to act – we effectively pass on the responsibility to someone else rather than challenging our neighbour on their callous and harmful behaviours. It might seem a little airy-fairy but I doubt you’ll fail to see the point.

Glad to hear you understand the logic about kids being in the car,

John, you enjoy doing something that has a 50/50 chance of killing you? Amazing!

Oh,well that’s ok then. Lets not bother to change anything for the better.

As much as I agree with it, it will be just like the mobile phone where nobodynBothers Now

Smoking and using a mobile phone while driving is hardly comparable, smoking is not a distraction and is second nature to people who smoke. it is no more distracting then remembering to breath.
Personally I would never smoke with a young kid in the car anyway. But I find this criminalization and demonization of smokers ridiculous and hypocritical… while they are at it they had better ban diesel cars because the emissions from them have been proven to be just as, if not more toxic then tobacco smoke, also they had better evacuate places like Cobh in Cork because the incidence of Cancer are 44% higher then average because of the toxic waste and industry!!!

Common sense is not as common any more….

Yes its common sense but yet loads and loads of people continue to smoke in cars with kids,

Its the same as driving while texting or holding a mobile is idiotic and should be common sense, but again look at people.

Or trying to drive 80km/hour in a housing estate with loads of kids playing, again you’d think its common sense but we see it all the time

the list of idiotic and selfish things people do is endless.

Maybe the keyboard warriors should step up to what they seem to regard as a social/moral responsibility and tap on the windows of the apparently thousands of offenders there are out there instead of palming off the responsibility on the Gardai and then just moaning about a law which is not being enforced?
This will BARELY be enforced – it’ll be a case of busting a driver for this as an extra thump after getting breathalised or something.

ever think that might be why they smoke?

Really Paul – you think this is a serious comment? Come one now……

lol, fair point. :-D

Cancer is contagious now?