What is a consultant paid in Finland? And what is one paid here?

If memory serves, a new hospital consultant gets paid something in the order of 70,000 euros a year in Finland and 150,000 euros a year in the Republic of Ireland.

Of course, in the Republic of Ireland, we are fortunate not to have that Scandinavian country’s Mickey mouse economy.

Which is exactly why such comparisons are not always valuable and is the first populous band wagon for people to jump on.

In a general sense such comparisons are best made with countries that have comparable cost of living numbers. Of course GDP and taxation comes in heavily there too.

You have no idea what Specialists’ salaries are and how they are constructed in Finland. It’s a pity people like you are such gullible propaganda fodder!

Guys, you do realize that my reference to Finland as a “Mickey mouse economy” in contrast to us was tongue-in-cheek?

I think it is valid to compare ourselves with Finland actually. It’s in the Eurozone like us and has a similar population size. Unlike us, their government didn’t need a bailout.

Eurosceptics are always comparing the Republic of Ireland with Iceland, which is supposedly doing better than us, according to them, but which is not even in the Eurozone.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0327/1224313955364.html

The HSE says that the average consultant gets a core salary of 180,000 euros a years.

Disgusting!

Consultants are not Gods and the citizens of the Republic of Ireland should not be priced out of essential services.

It’s time for the Government to put on its boxing gloves.

Paul,
The thing is that the HSE cannot hold onto its doctors of any level, Irish or foreign. Irish doctors carry out their intern year and emigrate to the States, UK, Oz. Foreign doctors return home because they are treated like gods in their own countries, as opposed to the attitude they get from the likes of you here.
If you want doctors to remain here, Irish or otherwise, you gotta pay them to compensate for the crap working conditions, and the complete disrespect they get from both the general public and their own employer.

Michael: Are you telling me that if the average hospital consultant was paid 100,000 euros a year, instead of 180,000 euros a year core salary (100,000 euros a year is still 3 times the average industrial wage), the hospital consultant wouldn’t be able to survive on that?

The average industrial wage earner has a Bachelor degree, some might have a Masters or a PhD.
The average Irish consultant has a Bachelor, memberships to their respective disciplinary college, they have to remain current, and should they wish to stand still, (IE, not progress), still have to remain current (IE, sit membership exams every year until the day they retire).
You are not comparing like with like.
BesideS there are a news group of doctors coming up the grades now – Graduate doctors – they hold Bachelors before they become medical students. These doctors have loans to the tune of 125,000.
Add to that: the fact that doctors change rotations every 3-6 months, this might involve finishing work in CUH on Friday evening, starting work in Tallaght on Monday morning. (There are doctors who have to work the call shift on Sunday in one hospital, then start working on Monday morning in a completely different city).
If you think consultants pay should be halved, then you have to balance that with a doubling in the standard of living, and currently, as is proven by the fact that the pay is not even keeping many doctors here, that is certainly not what is happening.
Besides, pay is not on the cards here, it’s actually productivity. Pay has already been dealt with.

Michael: What’s the source to your claim that consultants and NCHDs have already taken pay-cuts of between 30% and 50%?

The deadline for loan repayments for student doctors (mostly graduate entry) have been extended to 15 years as opposed to 7 years. The reason given for this by the banks is that junior doctors earning capacity has halved in the last 2 years.

What the Irish Hospital Consultants Association means when they say that they have already taken a 30 to 40% pay cut is that those who have signed new contracts in the Spring 2008 and thereafter have taken such a pay cut compared to those on pre-existing contracts. Those who signed contracts before Spring 2008 have taken no such hit.

And the unreality doesn’t end there.

When calculating this alleged 30 to 40% pay cut for those who signed contracts in the Spring of 2008 and thereafter, the IHCA are taking into account a *15% increase in pay* that was withheld from them! Yup, you got it! The promised 15% increase in pay for those who signed contracts after Spring 2008 that they never got transforms into a *15% pay cut*. It’s straight from Orwell’s 1984. Less is more. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. War is peace.

The consultants who signed a contract in the Spring 2008 and thereafter actually got a *15% pay increase* in January 2009 after our financial crisis broke. Of course, the IHCA don’t take that into account when claiming a 30 to 40% decrease in their income.

And these guys still think that their salaries, twice the European norm, well over twice the Northern European norm, are not competitive. In other words, they still want more. The nerve! Show them the door!

Make no mistake. If we capitulate to the Consultants, it’ll be the Irish citizen who will lose out in higher medical fees, higher insurance premiums and worse health in the long run.

http://saraburke.wordpress.com/2011/04/08/consultants-dissatisfied-with-cut-backs/

Then why was he so hard on them yesterday for not agreeing to LRC talks?

Since Reilly used to represent them he knows exactly how to deal with them in negotiations. Assuming he wants their pay reduced he’s probably the best person position to deliver such a cut. The question you’re asking is whether he wants their pay cut in the first place. The political capital someone gains from cutting pay at the top is immeasurable. He’d win massive praise if he cuts their pay so I don’t see why he wouldn’t want that to happen.

These talks are not so much about pay – that’s already been cut by 30% – but about productivity.

I agree Michael they’ll be more aimed at increasing productivity.
For eg reducing the 18 – 24 mths waiting list for a consultation with a paediatric neurologist in our lady’s is just unacceptable!!!!
Mind you he’s available in 6wks if I’d like to bring my child privately.

Wasn’t he the one that held Mary Harney to ransom for FOUR years or so over the over 70′s medical care. Thank God he is in trouble. What goes around comes around. Unfortuneately he can’t loose even if he gets sacked for politicial pragmatism, he’ll still be on the gravy train based on the old figures for his pension.

Alright Stephen,
With respect, let us know your opinion of how you are exploited?
If you are sick of misinformed comment, inform us!

Would you like ketchup with that chip on your shoulder?
Or somthing more bitter…

A wedge of lemon perhaps.

Have to say, I’m with Stephen here.
The general opinion that if we got rid of all the consultants we would solve the woes of the HSE. Consultants and NCHD’s have taken at least a 30% pay cut, with some levels taking a 40-50% cut in pay.
Yes, those amounts seem high, but if you want doctors to remain in Ireland, then you have to at least pay them properly. The fact of the matter is that if you become a doctor in Ireland, you are not guaranteed training, career progression, decent working conditions, or even getting paid for all the hours that you work.
You can hop on a plane to the UK, US, Oz, and be

Guaranteed a consultancy within 10 years (from undergrad to consultant), why would anyone want to stay here?
The HSE is an absolute abhorrent mess, and that is not by any stretch of the imagination the fault of the doctors.

Boo hoo my heart bleeds try being an ordinary frontline health staff staff really being exploited for sweet f**k all pay and before you say it I took seven years too to qualify with degree and post grad

Betty, try working a shift that starts before breakfast on one day and finishes after lunch the next – on top of a full working week.

No salary adequately compensates for that.

Examples please!

What support services are you referring to. The bulk of the work in the health service is actually done by the professional support staff not the consultants who swan in like gods issue orders and disappear you won’t see them R at night or weekends just the nurses and junior doctors the professional support staff like physio it social workers nurses junior doctors actually ensure the health and welfare of the patient and families Consultants earn vast sums and spend most of their time on private patients that pay them extra. The mafia of the consultant classes must be tackled before any cutting frontline staff pay

I agree Betty, but the professional support staff shouldnt be called support staff, they are THE staff. The freakin consultant is more of what should be called ‘support’ staff.

Double bill?
Have you any idea how the health service here works?
Evidently not.

What health service?

There are not enough consultants, doctors, nurses and you want to not only reduce the amount of consultants, but reduce the only thing that just about keeps them in the country?!
We deserve the HSE, quite frankly.

Also, if you think that the consultants salary is the cause of the overspend, you are clearly deluded.

So the consultants have had their pay cut by around 30% ??

Still awaiting news of when similar cuts, and are NOT voluntary, made for all the T.D.s

(Best not hold me breath for that one!)

Hey it’s less politicians we want, not less consultants. Look at the obscene salaries we pay complete fools like Enda Kenny and Phil Hogan, yet we complain about ( paying educated men that actually save lives) less. Stupid just plain stupid.

For gods sake Joe duffy et al earn in excess of 250,000 and they are not doing rounds at 7am , saving lives daily and working their asses off. I think consultants work bloody hard and are worth every cent. Just cut the fat from the people sharpening pencils , sitting back on their secure heels , taking their ‘sick days ‘ and lucky enough to take a lunch or tea break.

Michael: 70% of the Department of Health’s budget goes on wages. Consultants’ exorbitant salaries are a large contributor to the Department of Health’s overspend.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/labour-piles-pressure-on-reilly-to-target-consultants-3216528.html

I can guarantee you that your consultant starts their day earlier than you do and ends later. And is up at night dealing with sick people. Believe it or not , doctors have lives and families too. When you go into labour and if you need help at 4 am ( I hope you don’t ) , it will be that doctor who will be there and who will still be up to begin rounds again at 7am. so bash away at these people , you have obviously no understanding of what doctors in Ireland have to do in their working day

@celtic lady in not bashing doctors! And in fully aware they need their own lives outside work! My point is that if you are assigned a consultant and never see them, and left q-ing for hours to see a different doctor each time for a check up. Make more sense to have flexibility in times and continuity of care with maybe same 2 or 3 docs instead of a consultant you actually never meet!!! Plus I’m fully aware the consultant I “see” won’t be at that birth!!

@siobeli – nice idea, but there aren’t enough docs to see people as it is. To get every patient seen by the same person each time would be nearly impossible, because clinics are run in addition to day to day work.