If it was two good looking girls kissing then the pictures would probably be plastered all over the oaks facebook page

I had a good look at the Old Oak’s Facebook page yesterday evening (while they were furiously deleting comments and banning people and before they eventually deleted/deactivated their account) and it was full of soft porn pictures of women (lots of T&A) with plenty of pictures of straight people kissing (they started off by deleting those pics first btw).

It’s not their silence that’s a problem, far from it, it’s their evangelical zeal to stop all comments on the matter which culminated in them deleting their account – that in and of itself says a lot IMO.

Having frequented the Old Oak in the past I find this insult a bit of a double standard. I once saw two girls kissing in there before a good while back…not to mention the amount of straight couples absolutely mauling the faces off each other.

There’s always CCTV footage ;)

I hope it’s not like a story a friend mentioned last night when a guy got thrown out of Isolde’s Tower for ‘kissing’ his fella years ago. Turns out when the management asked him to come see the CCTV footage of the incident he was giving a handjob! If was just kissing though they deserve some kind of compensation.

Was in the oak one night. Two girls going at it, was plastered on the tv screens they have around the bar.

I have often seen straight couples doing a lot more than kissing in bars and in night clubs and nobody bothered them. This pub should be boycotted till they move into 2011

Those of you saying that it was for their own protection – you are problematising this couple’s sexuality. The real problem is the homophobia. That is what should be attacked, not sexuality.

It’s like when a child is bullied and someone blames them for being different and drawing it on themselves. It’s warped logic.

For those asking about the nature of the incidents, my understanding from speaking to people who witnessed them is that they would be best described as a ‘peck’.

@Graham I see your point which in fairness is quite reasoned. I’ve often wonder how different reactions would be if media outlets, when reporting incidents such as this, left out the word gay. I think people would be far more outraged with such a story. As a society I think we still have a long way to go on equality issues

I have zero pity on the old oak, my boyfriend and I were refused entry there last year despite being sober, I asked if it was because we were gay and got no reply from the bouncer, they are know for having a**holes for bouncers. Simple solution: stop going there and they’ll learn their lession, money talks!

The people involved are getting legal advice. And if this is true it will cost the bar and staff a lot. The days of the neanderthal are gone and assigned to the dark ages.

Should it not be ‘gay couple’ kissing as opposed to couple ‘gay kissing’?

This pub broke the Equal Status Act 2000 its just that simple. The couple in question need a public apology and possible compensation for the humiliation they suffered as a result of being thrown out. The pubs late licence should be revoked for a period of one month and its obvious that The bouncers need to be retrained.

Well when me and my make friend went there about 3 week ago we were snorted at for just ordering tea, so it kinda already has a macho attitude in the staff

If this has happened it is illegal as simply as.

The Old crOak more like! People should make their opinions known with their feet and boycott the place – they’ll soon see the error of their ways. With pubs closing down left right and centre, you’d think they’d have more cop on.

@Nikki – that is an utterly ridiculous comment you made. Its on par with ‘if your granny had balls, she’d be your grandad’. The bottom line here as far as I’m concerned is, by the pub refusing to comment, deleting comments first and eventually their Facebook page its a sure sign of guilt. If they had nothing to hide and were justified in their actions, they would have no problem in defending their arguement. As stated above, its a pure neanderthal approach to the reality that a gay culture is present in our society and should be accepted and respected as equally as a hetrosexual relationship.

Know one of the lads involved, what happened is a total disgrace and the silence by management since the incident happened tells its own story. Events like should not be a part of modern Ireland in Cork or anywhere :(

I was asked to leave a club in Limerick some years ago because I was seen kissing my boyfriend by a bouncer.
When I asked him what the problem was he said that people had complained and we had to leave.
I then put it to him that the people who were offended should leave as we were doing nothing wrong – he replied ‘no ye’re wrong, ye have to go’ so we left.
i contacted the club the next day and complained to the manager.He said that the club did not have a homophobic policy and invited me to meet with him.
I went to see him and he didn’t show up.I couldn’t contact him again as he was always ‘out’.
I gave up in the end as I felt as a 22yr student i wouldn’t have had much hope of anyone listening to me.
it’s really great to see so much support on here for these two students but why this is still happening saddens me..

Great to see homophobia is a alive and well for god sake it’s 2011 for Christ sake

Normally I’m all sympathy for bouncers, because they tend to deal with a lot of louts.

But seriously? While I often feel uncomfortable around gay couples kissing, it’s not something I’m particularly proud of. For the most part, I class myself as a liberal, and if straight couples are allowed to kiss in public, then so too should gay couples.

If the article itself is accurate, then this calls for an outright boycott. That kind of BS belongs to a different era.

There are, and always will be gay people on the planet, get over it you bunch of clowns.

Let’s look at this another way. Say it was an interracial couple or a couple with different religions would they have been asked to leave? There is no question that this was homophobia, the only question is was this the bouncer acting alone or was the request to leave sent down from management? The silence from The Old Oak is deafening.

People are people. If you feel "uncomfortable" seeing 2 guys kiss that is your problem not the couples. Get over it. There are over 400 species with bisexual or gay habits but only one that displays homophobia. Which is unnatural?

This seems like a big over reaction by the bouncer or the owner/manager who would surely have had some say in wether the kissing couple were asked to leave. I’ve seen worse going on in clubs and it’s ridiculous if a couple, no matter what their sexual orientation is can’t show some affection for each other by giving each other a kiss on a dance floor, I do wonder if the same bouncer would have done the same to a straight couple? Alas, looks like a bit of good ol’ fashioned prejudice to me.

You’re given so little joy in this life… sigh*

this is just a sad story, we have such a strange problem allowing other people to be happy in their love. The old oak is confused. they’ll learn.

but the worst thing they did has gone unspoken. they’ve incorrectly validated how people deal with being confused. Ireland is a sad place to live.

people should have a ‘kiss in’ like the pub in London

http://www.thejournal.ie/same-sex-kiss-in-protest-underway-outside-london-pub-122095-Apr2011/

I was in the old oak only once before.the bouncers seemed lovely….but evidently not:/

I firmly believe there are two sides to the story but why oh why have the bar not issued a statement to clarify their position on the matter?
Is it a rogue bouncer or orders from management? From what I read from alleged witnesses the kiss was not over the top. So if it was the bouncer’s prejudice, surely the bar fires the bouncer and makes a statement that this is not their policy and apologises? But if it was management- well they can’t do that as the bouncer will say he was acting on orders from management- which means more bad publicity and law suit etc.
They deleted comments on facebook and ended up deleting their page- what motivation is there for that?
Now I wait to see what they say. Remember there is probably a lot of staff working there who have nothing to do with this also and poor them basically.
And finally- I couldn’t care less if people are ‘uncomfortable’ seeing two men kissing. I am uncomfortable with watching blokes pee against walls on a Saturday night, I’m uncomfortable with small children being slapped in the supermarket for minor misbehaviour, I am uncomfortable with people who can’t utter a sentence without swearing as many times as possible… gay is not a lifestyle choice. It is completely normal- like being male or female, black or white or in between, tall or short (i’m short lol). Get over it. No way should they have been thrown out for their protection or otherwise. The answer to that argument is that the potential blokes who would have caused trouble at the sight of two lads kissing- should have been stopped at the door in the first place.

I wonder if it were two girls kissing would they have been thrown out ?
Seems to be more accepted for girls to parade lesbianism, even if it’s just a simple kiss.

I guess most blokes (myself included in all honesty) and a fair amount of girls I’m sure, find it erotic to watch two girls kissing, yet many would cringe at two blokes doing the same. It’s not necessarily homophobic to cringe in disgust, it’s just human nature and the substance from the society in which surrounds you. Throwing people out/banning/barring them though takes it to another level.
Whether you agree or disagree, all people are entitled to love or just lust after another, no matter their sex.
Their life, their choice, live and let live.

With respect, there has been instances of this happening in clubs and bars before which caused uproar among the pc brigade. It then usually turns out that the couple in question were just shirt of having full on sex. The nightclub managers are professionals. I’d be interested to see the full story come out. I would assume there is more to it.

Of course if the initial story is correct then yes, the club was in the wrong.

Everybody dance now !!!!

While the bars facebook page has been deleted I thought I should share the fact that google caches certain pages (i.e saves a snapshot) and it just so happens the bars facebook has been cached on the 10th of Aug. The link for it is – cache:http://www.facebook.com/pages/OLD-OAK/107285079330565
And the last photos the uploaded on the day of the cache are saved as well. While there is none of anybody kissing the photos do suggest that if a straight couple where kissing there would be no problem.
Some of my best friends are gay and I see no reason why a gay couple should be treated different to a straight couple. Why should I be allowed to kiss someone on a dancefloor just because she is a female and be ejected if I were gay ! And as for the argument being made that the bouncer ejected them because “What if some homophobic lads” spotted them and started a fight and that if that had of been the case why would of been saying where were the bouncers ? OF COURSE WE WOULD THAT’S THERE JOB.
/rant.

They might have been afraid that word would spread among the common fold that the old oak is a “gay place”. Since they are primarily a straight hole, this would be bad for the coffers. Boycotting will renew their commitment to human rights.

to be honest the question that I would be asking is what 2 young students were doing in there. Hetro or homosexual the old oak wouldn’t be any young persons popular spot. It would be as big a mismatch as sending biddy from glenroe to cream in Ibiza.

The Old Oak have re-opened their Facebook page and have released a statement:
**************
official joint statement from both parties re incident in Old Oak – Friday 19th into Saturday 20th August 20.
by OLD OAK on Tuesday, 23 August 2011 at 19:55

official statement from both parties involved:

Joint Statement re incident in Old Oak – Friday 19th into Saturday 20th August 2011

We, the parties involved in the incident last Friday night, met today, 23rd

August, to discuss the events which occurred.

After deliberations and discussions both parties accepted and conceded that mistakes were made by all involved.

The Old Oak apologised for any offence which was taken, but stressed that no offence whatsoever was meant or intended as we are not and never have been anti Gay.

Equally the couple involved, who wish to remain anonymous, accepted that they could have handled matters in a better way.

Both parties look forward to continuing good relations and custom.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/old-oak/official-joint-statement-from-both-parties-re-incident-in-old-oak-friday-19th-in/204213682971037
*******************************
It’s a very badly (weirdly) worded statement and I can’t help but think…well maybe I can’t say it here…but considering that multiple witnesses have said that the guys did nothing wrong and weren’t ‘extreme’…

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Im-boycotting-the-Old-Oak/276959918986005

I personally think excessive public displays of affection whether straight or gay is distasteful and can make people feel uncomfortable.

I think I can see where Nikki is coming from, I think. We all agree in principle that everyone has the right to have a wee snog in public, regardless of their gender, but when “things” get beyond that someone has the right to intervene and say “here, get a room”. The problem is, in a predominantly hetro society, whether we admit it or not because its not the done thing, most hetro men are very uncomfortable in the presence of affectionate gay men and the same with hetro women and affectionate gay women. If gay men are going at it on the TV I usually respond by going urrghh, while my wife says something like “its only natural” but when its gay women I’m quite comfortable (no laughs please) while she’s uncomfortable watching them. This is a fact we don’t like to admit, it doesn’t mean gay people don’t have the same rights, it’s just that when they exercise those rights in front of us it makes us uncomfortable.

Bouncers are Horrible bunch of people in city centers, and most bouncers in gay bars are mostly straight and they treat you like crap.

Joint Statement re incident in Old Oak – Friday 19th into Saturday 20th August 2011
We, the parties involved in the incident last Friday night, met today, 23rd August, to discuss the events which occurred.
After deliberations and discussions both parties accepted and conceded that mistakes were made by all involved.
The Old Oak apologised for any offence which was taken, but stressed that no offence whatsoever was meant or intended as we are not and never have been anti Gay.
Equally the couple involved, who wish to remain anonymous, accepted that they could have handled matters in a better way.
Both parties look forward to continuing good relations and custom.

@Hugh Conahan – Maybe I’m missing something I didn’t know that the court found the pub guilty

People feel uncomfortable with couples getting overly affectionate with each other whether they are straight or gay. Did they ever hear the saying "keep it for the bedroom"?

Proper order that.

@David and Kieran I understand your point but when something like this happens your design with people who have a totally different mentality to the rest of us. As I said in my very first post I’m playing devils advocate here, I am not condoning or Condemning the pub, bouncer or people involved. just highlighting the fact that people reactions to certain scenarios vastly differ and that a lot of people on this site only actually comment in order to rant and had there been a different outcome in this situation ie the 2 boys got attacked by a bunch of muppets who didn’t like what they were doing, then the very same people on here today giving out about the bouncers would be the very first ones on here complaining that the bouncers should have prevented it.

I find bouncers And gardai, in fact anyone who has to deal with drunks on a regular basis, get nothing but grief and hassle. Yes there are a few on a power trip but the end of the day both are subjected to grief and abuse on a regular basis and no matter what they do they can never win.

If this bouncer is homophobic and used his position of authority to discriminate against this couple then yes he should be held accountable but until we have the full story it’s still speculation at this stage as to how and why it happened

Let’s play devils advocate here for a minute…..firstly in my opinion this should never have happened but it did. So let’s just say the bouncer had ignored it and everyone carried on with their night….then a couple of homophobic guys spotted the 2 lads kissing and got offended/insulted, whatever,and started a fight with the double and one of them ends up getting hurt or worse??what would you all be saying about the bouncers then…."where were the bouncers, why didn’t they do something, this should never have happens, the bouncers should have prevented it from starting in the first place"

As far as I’m aware a bouncers job is not only to break up fights, arguments and deal with the drunks but also to take preventative measures when they think necessary. So maybe this guy dealt with it in the wrong way, who knows, but to be fair he did ask them earlier in the night to refrain from snogging on the dance floor so he did try.

Any before anyone kicks off and has a rant at me accusing me if being homophobic, bigoted etc I can assure you that nothing could be further from the truth but this whole incident needs to be put not perspective. Yes gay couples should have the same rights s hetrosexual couples but with right comes responsibility and if your in a mainly "straight" (for want of a better word) bar then respect that not everyone there and open minded enough to accept different sexualitys. and if any person gay straight or bi doesn’t heed a warning from a bouncer then you have to accept it when your asked to leave!

Why don’t the gay community do what they always do to solve any problem and have a march? Ah, there’s nothing a good march won’t solve. I’m off to make my plaque card!

Seems to me there are a number of issues here which I depending whether you accept or don’d accept same sex relationships. I for one wouldn’t be happy about a gay couple kissing in a bar that I was having a drink in . Rather than make a scene or comment I would simply remove myself from the bar and seek a drink elsewhere.

We live in an age where it is now a part of life and we all have to live with it.

"what a hero" he possibly was, if one of those kids had gotten badly attacked the bouncerwould be the first person to be blamed for allowing it to happen. Ideally we would live in a world where no one would have to worry about incidents like this or their race, nationality, sexuality or creed but unfortunately were not there yet due to some very old fashioned and blinkered ways of thinking. And as a result of this yes things like this do still happen. It is a result of the small mindedness of some people and not the country as a whole.

Any statement been released as yet by the old oak? As they say there are usually 3sides to ever story…the sides of both parties involved and the 3rd side being a blend of both

They should have just slipped in the backdoor area and done there kissing there, nobody would have seen them and they wouldnt have been ejected and everyone would be happy!

Davenport ?sorry @dave I hate predictive typing

The elephant in the room here is all the bouncers are contracted from a seperate central company, so this bouncer isn’t even an employee of the Old Oak…