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Dublin: 10 °C Wednesday 19 June, 2013

Parents “cut back on food” to pay back-to-school costs

Parents have told Barnardos that they are struggling to pay school expenses for their children.

Image: Mark Stedman/Photocall Ireland

PARENTS ARE GOING without food and paying bills because of school costs, Barnardos said today.

The children’s charity surveyed 1000 parents about the cost of sending their children to school, with some respondents expressing frustration and anger at the expense.

Findings

Barnardos said that although the findings indicate some reductions in the average costs since 2011, “it is unsurprising that parents feel the collective costs have risen when their overall household budgets have decreased and the rate of Back to School Clothing and Footwear Allowance has reduced”.

It also said that:

there is a sense that parents are being too heavily relied upon by some schools to make up the shortfall arising from lower capitation grants from the Department of Education and Skills.

Barnardos’ CEO, Fergus Finlay, said:

Each year in Barnardos’ School Costs Survey parents express their frustration at the high cost of sending children to school. This year, however, the parents who responded to our survey are also showing real fear and concern at how they are going to make sure their children have what they need to get an education. Many parents are being forced to make very difficult choices and many are getting into debt to pay for uniforms, books and other education expenses. Concrete solutions for tackling the costs associated with sending children to school are long overdue.

Basic costs

The basic cost of sending a child aged six to senior infants has risen from €350 to €355. The cost of sending a child aged 10 into fourth class has dropped from €470 to €390.

Meanwhile, the back to school clothing and footwear allowance for either child has dropped from €200 to €150 each in one year.

Secondary school costs have dropped from €805 to €770, while the allowance for such students has dropped from €305 to €250.

The number of children benefiting from the back to school allowance has grown, with a 113 per cent increase between 2007 and 2012. Barnardos described this as “a startling indication of the reduction in parental incomes and their subsequent inability to cope with the school costs”.

Uniforms

In total, 72 per cent of parents said their children in primary schools require uniforms with the school crest on them, which means going to a specific retailer.  One parent questioned the practice of schools not allowing parents to attach a crest to a generic jumper.

Parents are paying approximately €100 for a primary school pupil’s uniform, while secondary school pupils’ uniform costs are higher – 17 per cent of parents pay €150  €174; 17 per cent spend €175 – €200; and 15 per cent spend more than €250.

Books

The survey showed that the cost of school books is usually the biggest expense for parents, especially those with children entering 1st and 5th year in secondary school.

The majority of parents are spending on average between €76 – €100 for books for a primary school pupil and over €250 for a secondary school pupil.

Parents criticise the fact they can’t pass books on between siblings due to new editions being prescribed by the teacher. Barnardos said that it is likely that this issue will be addressed over time as a result of the Code of Practice in operation among publishers, prohibiting the printing of new editions for a minimum of six years.

Regarding free school books, Barnardos called on the Government to look to neighbouring jurisdictions that have been operating free school book systems for children for decades.

The survey found that 50 per cent of respondents have school book rental schemes in schools in primary school and 40 per cent in secondary school.

Voluntary contribution

The survey found that 65 per cent of parents of primary school pupils and 76 per cent of parents of secondary school pupils have been asked for a voluntary contribution.

The amounts sought vary significantly within primary schools, from €50 to €150. In secondary schools, the majority of parents are being asked to donate €100 – €150.

Most schools seek additional contributions to cover school stationery and photocopying costs.

Digital books

Some schools require students to purchase digital books or tablets. A number of parents noted the substantial cost of buying an iPad and the additional cost of digital school books.

Barnardos believes that the debate around e-books must be broadened to look at low cost options for the supply of digital texts to schools in the medium and long-term in Ireland.

Transport

Fees for availing of the school transport scheme increased in Budget 2012 and are now €100 for a primary school pupil (with a maximum of €220 per family) and €350 per secondary school student (with a maximum of €650 per family).

Supports

There has been an overall reduction in teacher numbers and specific cuts affecting direct supports to students such as Resource Teachers, Language Support Teachers, Special Needs Assistants, Visiting Teachers for Travellers and Guidance Teachers.

Parents told Barnardos:

  • “We cut back on food and let other bills go unpaid to ensure children have what they need for school… We’re living on the edge all the time. So much for free education.”
  • “It should be mandatory for all schools to have a book rental scheme or all children should be supplied with an iPad on a rental scheme where they can download their books on to it. The cost of books is way too high and the fact that schools require that children have the latest edition means that more often than not you can not purchase them second hand. Education is definitely not free in this country.”
  • “It was a huge shock to find out it will cost at least €1000 by the start of term, never mind the other costs throughout the year. I’m a lone-parent, and a carer, I really don’t know where I will find this money. Someone is making a lot of money from the sale of school books and uniforms, and it’s the children who are suffering, be it by poorer quality food, living standards, heating etc. It’s a complete disgrace.”
  • “I did not have the money for the voluntary contribution for my daughter last year at registration, and when I spoke to the vice principal and told her my position I was told to go home and get the money and my daughter was not given her school diary or timetable as I could not provide the money on the day. This caused great embarrassment for my daughter as all her friends had theirs and knew which class they were in. The schools are not sympathetic to people whom find it hard to manage the fees and the children suffer consequently.”
  • “Even with no uniform I am struggling to afford sending my son back to school. With books and sundries it is €180, add another €80 voluntary contribution on top of that and it’s nearly impossible.”

Read: 111,000 pupils miss more than 20 school days a year>

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Comments (77 Comments)

  • Over €150 for a school uniform is insane, somebody is making a killing off this. Schools should sell the school crest for a fiver, let parents buy the uniform in Dunnes / Penney’s and sew on the crest. Would set you back €50 tops.

    Reply
    • Each school is different as regards uniforms. My daughter started secondary school last year and her uniform(including PE kit, and assorted bits) cost just over €300. Whereas the only part of my son’s uniform for secondary school that had to be bought especially was his jumper with the school crest. His shirts and trousers were all bought in Dunnes or M&S.

      Reply
    • Poppy 01/08/12 #

      I agree completely. However there is a cosy relationship going on with the SOLE SUPPLIER of uniforms in our town & the local principal. Some parents bought much cheaper but good quality jumpers in M&S & had the crest applied & there was mayhem in the school as the dictator principal will only allow jumpers purchased from the nominated supplier. The competition authority said that the school is within their rights to do this ?? I have 4 boys & the uniform alone is €200 each !!

      Reply
    • Over 400 for my daughter’s first year uniform, stuck it on the c/c..with her books and my other 2 kids Uniform n books, will take at least 4-5 months if child benefit to pay off everything then their are the school fees ( 500) in September which will eat up the child benefit for that month…

      Reply
    • @ Poppy, name the dictator, name the school.

      Reply
  • I honestly don’t see why schools insist on crests on jumpers, track suits etc. would make life a lot easier for everybody if this was done away with!

    It’d probably take a circular from the dept though as some schools have signed up to supply contracts with retailers (hence the ridiculously inflated costs)

    Reply
  • Apparently the back to school allowance is paid automatically to a number of people each year.two weeks ago two of my neighbours received the allowance totalling 400 euro each,their kids finished school last year, the parents went straight to the pub.great country. My husband breaks is balls working and we where told our kids are not entitled to the allowance.

    Reply
    • Careful Mairead , not allowed say anything like that,even though we see it all the time ,I feel sorry for the people who work in low and middle incomes that pay mortgages ,crèches ,buy book, buy uniforms ,pay 60 quid for a doctor of there child is over 6 months ,will have to pay a property tax , all of these many things many don’t even consider ,we see them smoking and buying there cans , not all but quiet a few .red thumb all you want guys but I know what I see every day of the week

      Reply
  • I hope it works out for those people struggling with back to school costs, I really do.

    Reply
  • I’m utterly aghast at the stories I’m seeing here regarding “voluntary” contributions… Why don’t the schools just call a spade a spade and call it “fees”? What an horrendous position to put parents in, and to humiliate a child because of their parents’ financial standing goes beyond the lowest form of life, to me. I went to schools my whole life that had uniforms and it cost my parents a fortune! I changed schools in my final year of school, and the only “uniform” was a black pair of jeans, and white shirt. The only crested item we had to buy was the sweater. That way there were no super expensive uniforms, but also no “keeping up with the fashion” problems for parents’ budgets. Cut the costs substantially, I tell you.

    Reply
  • Dave 01/08/12 #

    Whatever school insisted on that poor parent “going home and getting the money” for that “voluntary” contribution under threat of embarassing her daughter should be named and shamed.

    Digital books should cost less than half what paper versions do – no middle man (retailer), no printing, no logistics, so there’s another thing to sort out.

    And maybe we should just get rid of uniforms altogether?

    Reply
    • agree with everything Dave, except I would say that digital books should cost no MORE than half of the paper versions

      Reply
    • Unfortunately getting rid of uniforms altogether would probably entail more cost on parents as they would then have the pressure of sending their child in the latest “trendy” fashion labels. At least the uniform stamps out this kind of competition among kids to see who’s got the label brand clothes & who’s in Primark or Dunnes but I agree that the ridiculous practice of only being able to buy the uniform from one shop is mad – why don’t parents protest over this en masse?

      Reply
    • One has to pay vat of 23 % on digital books even if for school that’s why they are still expensive

      Reply
    • As much as I complain about the cost of school uniforms, I still think they’re a good idea. Many moons ago when I was in school, most schools didn’t have uniforms; god help any poor child who wasn’t seen in the latest fashions. They were singled out and targeted by not only the other kids, but in some cases snobbish teachers.

      Reply
  • And all of this will keep happening unless parents make a stand against it…..its getting ridiculous the amount of money that parents have to give out to send their children to school.Why do schools insist on crests on jumpers??It’s not as if anybody can see it!! It’s all a money racket! If i cannot pay the ‘voluntary’ contribution,my child won’t get a journel or a key to the locker.Wheres the logic in that?As for the amount of books both primary and secondary schools have to get…don’t get me started!!

    Reply
  • Ah the old “voluntary” contribution. This one has always irked me and I don’t even have kids yet. In my final two years at secondary school I didn’t even mention to my parents that the school wanted the “Voluntary contribution” because money was tight and I knew they didn’t have. I had my class teacher and the vice principal both tell me outside of class that it had to be paid. When I argued that it was voluntary the response was that it had to be paid.

    After a few minutes of this circular logic I said if it was renamed to “Required” or “Mandatory” contribution I would bring it to my parents attention. But that didn’t go down so well. The only way they backed down was when I explained that all the English teachers in the school would have to be informed they needed to use the new, updated, not in the dictionary definition of the word “Voluntary” as I had clearly been taught incorrectly for the last four years.

    Was I being cheeky? A bit, but you can’t use a word that has a defined meaning and expect it to be reinterpreted to suit your needs.

    Reply
    • Good for you,

      Nice to see kids stand up for themselves.

      Reply
    • Like I said Karla there was an element of being cheeky, I won’t deny it. But you can’t go around strong arming people.

      I’m nearing thirty now and if I am lucky enough to have kids I will make sure to cover school costs as best I can but the day something gets sent home saying I haven’t paid a “Voluntary contribution” it will be sent back. I fully understand that schools are under-funded in some areas and have no problem helping out (buying tickets at the front door, etc) but don’t go around like this is the 1920’s in America and you can bully money out of people.

      Sure the current Minister for Education (for what he may be worth) said last year that schools can ask for the Voluntary contribution so long as they make sure parents know it is voluntary.

      Reply
    • The only solution is to name and shame all of these schools, that demand voluntary contributions or insist on uniforms being bought in certain stores. Name the dictator priniciple, name the school, name the store. I want to know who and where to avoid.
      Any parents can then make an informed decision to NOT send their child to such a place, long before the back to school panic begins. As these schools and their boards are operating as a business their income is ultimately dependant on selling their product. If their product is deemed unfit and parents withdraw their support these schools will soon change their attitudes.

      Reply
    • Well said Derek………I reluctently paid it last year as it was my sons first year,but i;m seriously considering not paying it this year(havent got it in the first place!!)…But of course i’m irish,and live in this nanny country and no doubt they will squeeze it out of me some way…and probably humiliate my son in the process!!

      Reply
  • That’s a ridiculous amount of money for a school to ask as a contribution. I know schools are struggling with cutbacks but to still be asking for contributions from families who are struggling too is crazy.

    Reply
    • My daughter’s primary school wants €275 per pupil as a “voluntary” fee.

      Why do we pay taxes?

      Free education my ass!!

      Reply
    • In my old school it luckily wasn’t forced on you too harshly as in the example in the piece. That doesn’t mean they weren’t pushy. On average two or three brown letters would pop in the door of those who couldn’t pay demanding information as to why.

      Not to mention the lists of things the school would do with the voluntary contribution never changed from first to sixth year (although a new foyer and sparkling new teachers lounge complete with computers and wifi which was never mentioned to the parents got to go-ahead.)

      Reply
    • @ KarlMarks, name the school please.

      Reply
  • perhaps everyone can harness the power of the sea to povide uniforms and books too long have we turned our backs on the sea, perhaps neptune has the answer

    Reply
  • @ Robert, there are many single parent’s who have lost their spouse or have had leave a relationship because of violence

    Reply
  • Why is their a children’s allowance and a back to school allowance paid in cash…

    Here’s €200 of book tokens and €150 uniform voucher, problem solved

    Or give the money to the school and require them to provide all books needed

    Reply
    • Bit of a sadist Andrew, wanting to further humiliate already stressed out, highly aware of their ‘status’ single parents? I stay in almost every weekend & am studying for an hon degree in economics & finance to provide a better life for my children ( no I don’t think I deserve a medal, just cut us some slack!)and the single parents I know, bar one are in similar circumstances…… judge not lest you shall be judged!

      Reply
    • that would be intelligent Andrew, hence the reason it will never happen

      Reply
    • Dave 01/08/12 #

      I’m sorry, HOW does that actually solve anything?????

      Reply
  • I wish my “voluntary” contribution was as low as €150 in our school they ask for €280 for the first child, €330 for two and €380 for three.

    Reply
    • Thats crazy, is it in a lump sum or over the year?

      Either way its a hugh amount.

      Reply
    • It’s €150 in my daughter’s secondary. Mind you, they were more than willing to accept the so-called voluntary contribution in instalments, I’ll give them that. Didn’t soften the blow when they asked for this €150 on top of the €250 they asked for before we’d even bought her a pencil at the start of the school year.

      Reply
    • They prefer it in a lump sum, but will “try” to facilitate those that can’t do that by letting them pay it in instalments over the year, that has only been introduced in the last year. This is a primary school.

      Reply
  • There’s a lot to be said for individual teachers and consequently schools curbing their enthusiasm for new editions and new book series just because the publishers sent in some nice samples. Also, just because they left spaces in the book for children to write answers (they always do – they want you to buy new books every year), doesn’t mean you have to. Schools, primary anyway, have the leaway without too much hassle to significently reduce book costs.
    As for ‘voluntary’ contributions.. anyone who pays this kind of money has the right to see where and how this money is spent. How come it varies so much?
    (I’m a primary teacher, by the way, in a school with minimal and always voluntary contributions and a very cheap booklist (at most about 40 euro)

    Reply
    • Only speaking from my own experience here but our school never pushes for students to purchase new editions. Unfortunately if they cannot get the older editions second hand the bookshops only stock the new ones forcing parents to purchase the new editions. With certain subjects like English and History for example, topics change every year so students have to buy new text books (poetry for example) Workbooks are the biggest waste of money particularly for primary school students. Is there really a need for students to fill in one or two words in a sentence? What happened to writing out the whole sentence into a copy like we used to do. It makes absolute sense for schools to allow parents to buy uniforms where they see fit be it Dunnes or Penneys etc. The e book idea will only work when the ridiculous 23% vat is lifted. When researching this earlier this year I couldn’t get over the cost of ebooks. An absolute scandal especially when parents had to fork out money for an ipad or netbook.

      Reply
  • I could be totally wrong here but I wonder if schools that have a contract with a retailer for uniform are receiving some sort of “contribution” from that retailer. Like football teams being sponsored by Nike for example… Nike pay for the contract because they know X amount of people are going to buy/have to buy the new kit and make them a fortune. The kit obviously being the uniform in this case… As I said I could be totally wrong, it’s just a thought…

    Reply
  • Typical Ireland, all talk , all rant, but nobody has the guts to talk to the relevant people and get things done. I had spoken to the principal of my kids school about these issues and was told ‘ that’s the way it is in Ireland’ ( what it meant was if u don ‘t like it , leave ) . Actually many snooty parents like the uniforms with school crests and then there is the cosy relationship between the uniform supplier and the school.

    Reply
  • franco 01/08/12 #

    Children are going hungry in Ireland and Gilmore is out playing Santa in Somalia and Kenya for fcuk sake !!!

    Reply
    • Do you really think the amount of aid being given to Somalia and Kenya is going to make the slightest difference to this situation?

      There are worse off than you – get off your cross and stretch your legs.

      Reply
    • franco 01/08/12 #

      @Michael . Seems like a lot of people agree with me Michael , the you are probably so far up your own butt you can’t see the wood from the trees . Charity begins at home , and when that’s done then you can save the rest of the world !

      Reply
  • Its disgraceful that one head of a school is allowed to tell hundreds of parents they are forced just to go to a sole trader – who can charge whatever the hell they like!
    As reported often, in some cases between 250 and 300 Euro a child.

    There is also some suspicion that SOME of the heads of these schools might be getting a backhander, to get the parents to go to some particular clothing makers!
    The law should be changed in regard to their ability to legally strong-arm parents to just one business and no one else!

    Its a legalised monopoly!

    Some schools or persons involved by the sounds of things, deserve further financial investigation to see who is possibly gaining on the quiet!
    It certainly not the parents of Ireland!

    “Rip-off Ireland” is still going it seems!

    Reply
    • Everybody talks of “rip off Ireland” as if it was fashionable to do so. Stop paying the businesses for what they charge , buy thru the internet whatever u can and u will soon find prices drop. But this has to happen as a revolution and not few isolated people doing it, i feel people here actually feel proud paying the rip off prices !! Snootiness of the celtic tiger days still lives on . Businesses cry about not making enough, but for the prices u charge , no wonder u don’t !!

      Reply
  • Back under your bridge, Troll. You have no idea of people’s circumstances, and no right to judge. I’ll warrant many lone parents had no intention of starting out that way but are now in the position where they must be. We’re all just struggling parents, lone or not, trying to do the best we can for our children.

    Reply
  • Some politicians can and do attend the Dail school in casual clothes so why can’t this apply to all the other schools around the country ? These people are the law makers (and breakers)..

    Reply
  • Yeah it is a disgrace, my daughter goes to first class now and she has 13 bloody books!!!!!! EXCUSE ME??? And it cost me 120 Euro – thank god I have only one! She has alone 3 maths workbooks – where is the method that you have a book and many copies…In my times you had one book for every subject maybe 4 or 5 not 15!!!! and the teacher had actually TO THINK AND DO something and not just give them a workbook to work in…. I am not going against teachers but they should be the FIRST saying NO that cant be so many books and making clear IT IS NOT NECESSARY! And it is a wrong thinking of the system…. less books less school allowance, finish. Regarding the uniform they are not expensive thank god but on the other hand I was shocked when for NOTHING I tried to sell my daughters uniform SUPER NEW condition and could NOT get rid of them – so money is still around but only to the ELITE> Let them pay the voluntary contributions, well said ITS FEES! I cant contribute!!! This HAS to change….. It is a disgrace that people can NOT afford to send their kids to school…

    Reply
  • This is what happens when you have teachers in Government! They’d rather deprive the poor than cut teachers wages!

    Reply
    • This has bugger all to do with teachers’ wages (which have been reduced by 17% on average by the way) and everything to do with publishers making a killing on books being re-published, school uniforms being far too expensive and our schools being underfunded.

      Reply
    • I can remember quite clearly how editions don’t really vary all that much in regards to new, must have content. Publishers just shuffle the chapters, shuffle the assignments and add extra ones here and there.

      And yet they’re allowed to sell this as a brand new book. Worse still schools push for their students to have these new versions.

      Reply
    • Micheal 01/08/12 #

      This argument comes up every time.

      By the time you account for taxes, levies, a professional with (more than) full time work, can end up earning just 400euro, as opposed to 188euro on SW. Yes, they earn more, but boy, the professionals of the public service certainly contribute, majorly, to the tax take of the country.

      The general perception that the public service workers earn the takings of the national lottery each week, is inaccurate.

      Please don’t turn this into a Public service bashing. It’s uncalled for.

      Reply
  • Robert, go out and see what real life is. A lot of the parents who are struggling are working and paying mortgages/childcare/household bills. You obviously have no clue of how difficult some parents are finding things financially.

    Reply
  • Shocking the amount of crap involved with sending your kids to school and the costs, uniforms that can only be purchased from 1 shop and cost 60+ euro for the jumper only because its got some red stripe running around the neck that no company like Dunnes or M&S ect would ever stock. Then the books and workbooks! whatever happened to copies and a4 pads? my 2 children are 4 and 5, my son just finished his first year in school and my daughter is starting in the same school this year..she can use 1 book from last year that he used 1 friggin book! every other book I had to buy was new and mostly these stupid workbooks that have no other use afterwards, have these schools never heard of photo-copies?

    One thing I found very funny last year was a conversation with my son one morning when he was refusing to wear his uniform, when I told him he had to wear it because everyone in his class has to wear there uniform, he replied but teacher never wears hers! if you ask me he has a point.

    Reply
  • Child benefits.That is why.

    Reply
  • Stop using your Children’s allowance to buy fags, booze and crystal meth and save it towards children’s education needs

    *slightly sarcastic:)

    Reply
    • Please don’t make out that we are all squandering allowances on fags, booze and crystal meth. Six out of ten lone parents are working parents and those that carry on those practices are in the strict minority. I have been on both sides of the welfare fence and it is no picnic on the welfare, especially as a lone parent. I got an opportunity to get out of the system and it took me four years to shake off the lone parents allowance as back then the allowance was diminished according as your working income rose, causing havoc with new employers and tax bands alike. I have one daughter left in the school system and she is in her leaving cert year. I have had to find €800 to cover fees and books and this will only be the start of it. Her uniform is only sold in one shop and costs an absolute fortune. I have been saving like crazy and taking on night work to make sure she gets all she needs. For your information i also subsidise my other working lone parent daughter as her childcare costs are astronomical. I am also saving for my grandchild’s education. Not all of us are lazy layabouts and do our very best to make sure our kids get what they need education wise. I have gone without so that they can have what they need to get on. I have always found that the best policy in understanding how people around me get by from day to day is to talk to them about it. Walk a mile in my shoes if you want to know me.

      Reply
    • Margaret, what you’re saying is true, not all parents are squandering parents. But when squandering parents are raised then someone always says that not all parents are squandering parents and the focus on squandering parents gets lost.

      The squandering parents are robbing us all, even the non-squandering parents, just because there are both types the squandering parents should not get away with it. They’re hurting you too.

      Reply
    • I agree Damocles, but it takes many facets to make up a society and in my opinion the minorities that make up this society are often villified for what people see on the surface, and fail to understand the motivators or driving forces that lead them to this lifestyle in the first place. Society cared for me when I needed it most and when I was able to stand on my own two feet again and take care of my own I made a decision to give back to society. I worked my way up to a good job, paid my taxes and bills and most importantly looked around me to see who I could help. Most evenings and weekends I go into my community with other like minded people and assist those to get out of their lifestyle and better themselves through encouragement, education and rebuilding self esteem.

      Reply
    • Society cared for me when I needed it most and when I was able to stand on my own two feet again and take care of my own I made a decision to give back to society

      And that does you credit. But for every one of you there’s a few that’ll go “I don’t even care if Society owes me this money, it’s giving it to me, I’m taking it and once I’ve got I’ll do what I like with it.”

      Reply
    • Margaret, do you want a medal for providing for your own kids?
      Thats your job! You brought them into the world, its up to you to support them.

      Plenty of people cant afford to have families so they dont have them!

      Reply
    • margaret i know that there are single mothers out there like you who have worked but you can not disagree about the amount of women out there who are having around 6 children so there bills are paid and giving a house and then you see them on fb on a tuesday once a month on the piss which is a disgrace i dont get to go out because i simply cant afford to and also they will be giving out that they have no money which i wouldnt if i went out as much as them once again i know its not you or a great minority of single mothers but there is a vast mount who are bringing you and others down but lets not forget the lone parents who are not single i think we should be sorting that mess out first

      Reply
  • I doubt this is true.People with children usually fare better than people without in this country.

    Reply
    • caroline your wrong it is right the cost of putting a child in school is a shocking amount a year the cost of raising children is crazy money and how do people with children fare better than people without can you explain that please

      Reply
  • Anyone looking to avoid expensive Creches should visit Gumtree and hire an Au Pair for significantly cheaper. They are normally people from Spain or Italy.

    Reply
  • Paul 01/08/12 #

    Uniforms should be scrapped full stop, not only do they cost a bomb but they dont serve any positive role. They stifle individuality, quickly become redundant when kids grow out of them and are not very hygienic (you can be sure they are not cleaned regularly….considering that the same trousers/shirt/jumper are worn a few times during the week at least). The idea of uniforms is to create little drones and reduce competition. This doesnt work as we are an expressive individualistic society who are probably too influenced by fashion etc… and thus kids compete in other visual ways (shoes, bags, hair styles and so on). The reason why schools use them is probably closer to the Irish heart though…..some fat corrupt local lout is making a fortune out of them.

    Reply
    • In fairness can you imagine the cost of keeping up with the latest fashions if the school uniform was not kept? Different pair of jeans/dress etc every day? The whole idea of them is so that no matter what social-economic background you come from everybody wears the same clothes. Saying that though there is a need to source the cheapest possible.

      Reply
    • Paul 01/08/12 #

      I get what you are saying but in reality most kids (at primary level anyway) don’t give a damn if what they are wearing was bought in Pennys or Brown Thomas. Its the parents that care. I dont have kids, but I do have nephews and nieces who are your typical teenagers worried about what everyone else will think etc…. They are not spoiled brats and when not having their individuality stifled in over priced ugly uniforms manage to wear great clothes on a tight budget….that’s what the high street is for.
      The point about level the playing field I feel is mute. They will compete with shoes, accessories, school bags etc… In my experience its only the nouveau riche that care about labels anyway.

      Reply
    • you can tell you dont have kids paul because they know what labels are at primary school levels and with the uniforms i like them it does cost alot of money but it also gets the children in the right mindset for learning instead of what everyone else is wearing and to hear you say ireland are a expressive individualistic society is a joke ireland and most irish people are sheep a pack of followers which is sad

      Reply
    • Paul 01/08/12 #

      Are you kidding me Emma? The reason young kids care what labels they wear is because they have shallow under-capable irresponsible parents who have their priorities completely wrong. Uniforms are just another step in establishing the drone facility.

      Reply
    • paul i agree with your statement that under-capable irresponsible parents have an effect on children knowing labels but so does advertisment on tv have that effect and i am not kidding about ireland being followers because it is so if you got rid of the uniforms and you have these mindless parents teaching there children in this matter that labels are important do you not think the other mothers will try and follow because the children are home saying i would love a dress or shoes like that

      Reply
    • Paul 01/08/12 #

      Its a fair point Emma, but I do believe kids will compete either way. I was a teacher in Asia for a few years where the kids are stripped of all individual displays of personality form a young age. They still manage to try to trump each other though with other effects such as iphones, pencil cases etc….. I hate to see kids personalities suffocating for the sake of creating mindless wage slaves the way schools try.

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    • we are thinking the same i hate it myself all we can do is teach our kids in our way of thinking and not to folllow others and also the children are never in school there always days off and midterms so they have plenty of time afterwards to express themselves

      Reply
  • Not so much lone parents…People that produce children in order to stay in the country.

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  • Kate 02/08/12 #

    We have a book rental scheme and only 25% of parents use it. :/

    Reply
  • Fair play to the government for tackling the obesity problem destroying our kids. It’s this kind of outside the box thinking that we need from our retired school teachers… sorry Ministers.

    Reply

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