Fair play to ya!! Thanks for the support…

If the unions’ primary concern was the welfare of the people they serve, there would be no problem. Unfortunately, their leadership curiously places the never-ending expansion of benefits to its members ahead of the needs of the very people who pay their salaries. The thought of the union determining who teaches our children and not the principal of the school who is held responsible is simply beyond the scope of reason. Why would anyone wish to be a principal? Why would anyone send their child to such a school…if they had a choice, which most people do not have? Is there any wonder why the quality of public education is so low?

@reg blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

The quality of public education is so low? What is your basis for this claim?

Natasha
Are you a teacher?

Mark please don’t encourage him. It’s a school night he’s probably asleep by now

What the hell Reg?? No mention of Greece?? You sick or somethin??

Nope! Private sector. Your point please.

Deal with them just like Reagan did with PATCO – fire them all and start over. Lots of unemployed teachers around the country that would likely be happy to have those positions.

@reg blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Nothing you have suggested would improve Ireland’s education system. It is precisely when you apply this Michael O’Leary style approach to education that you see the system go to the dogs. Reagan did nothing to improve publuc education in the USA. Indeed, the ethos and modus operandi of the public system in the USA is a long way from where any sane educationalist would want to be.

Yes, we should all seek to emulate Reagan, his policies were great for America, both of economically and socially

people beware of the goverment stooges on here trying to push their lies.

Old saying.Be alert, your country needs lerts.

At what point (if ever) will some come to realize that any public employees are there to serve the public?

Is R T the person in question ….I think so…

Mr govt propaganda

It is clear that the public unions no longer care about anything but their agenda (in some cases). That said, there is a great deal that can be done to counter them including the troika. The troika analysis more or less warned that if the high pay in the public sector wasn’t dropped or otherwise reformed, we would not need to introduce new taxes or increase existing taxes. The union screamed and opposed. Everyone should use it to counter them.

70% of public servants make less than the average industrial wage. Being able to keep the heating on and feed your family is a reasonable ‘agenda’ trollboy.

Public Sector Average Weekly Earnings 2000-2008:

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=PSA01.asp&TableName=Public+Sector+Average+Weekly+Earnings&StatisticalProduct=DB_PS

Any chance you might get up to date stats ??

At the end of June 2012, according to the Central Statistics Office (CSO), public sector workers average weekly wage € 918.99 compared with € 611.66 in the private sector:

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/2012/earnlabcosts_q22012.pdf

It’s a bit selective. Did you know that Nurses were not part of bench marking and got nothing under it. Checked today and it’s true. Shame that they are included with those that did benefit. That’s politics I suppose. Make the public think they did……..

Serve but not subservient Regonald. We’re not slaves and shouldn’t be thought of or treated as such.

€918.99 a week average … Shit someone has been stealing my wages for years so because it’s never been anywhere near that amount !!!!

What’s a government stooge?

I’m a public servant, but I hate when people don’t research their facts properly.
John Phelan nurses DID get an award under benchmarking in 2002. They received 8%. I don’t know where you did your research but look again. There was another benchmarking exercise in 2007 but practically no one received an incease in that report.

Yes we do but we are not saints or Jesus. We need money to live! I work dam hard 60 hour basic week with a 2 hour drive, a 72 hour week! I want to support my community, serve my community and ensure its safety. I can’t if I can’t afford the diesel to get there or the food on my table. I serve. I’m not a slave.

anyone else think Teresa is amazingly cute??:)

its alright Teresa i know ya :) the lady has a point, same for rest of us. I myself had to take holidays just to save on traveling to work. that’s not right

Every civil servant knows they are there to serve the public! The clue is in the title… CIVIL SERVANT

I serve the public every day helping make sick children better and sadly sometimes helping families when their children don’t make it. Don’t lecture me on public service!

That’s Bollox! My pay cheque is down €135 a WEEK & my husband same = mortgage repayment gone!! How about banks renegotiate my mortgage to reflect cuts & ill take a pay cut then!! THERE IS NOTHING LEFT!

I know many many frontline workers and they do not earn anything near that amount, and please note they get hit with all the USC, paye increases, health levies and so on as well as Pension Levies, increased working hours, heavier work loads etc They are offered no upskilling or continuous training unless they pay for it themselves but yet the public expect to call 999 and get a world class service, they do a fantastic job, but if theses cuts continue we are putting the lives of the general public in danger, because front line service will not be the same, you can’t maintain the same level of service when working conditions are getting so bad.

@Reg. The average calculation is meaningless. The higher paid salaries skew the average upwards, which suits your agenda, I suppose. Give us real statistics, such as the MEDIAN calculation.

Well said..!! Vote no!!!

Not everyone rejects a 20% salary increase like the one back near the time of the millennium.

What hasn’t been discussed in this otherwise excellent article of public sector unions is the incremental effects of their efforts; and the impact that will have going forward on the public’s perception of them. But through the incremental effects of union activity over many years, the outsized benefits have remained but the wages have risen dramatically. And the cost of the public sector pensions deficit is but one factor in the snowballing cost of the civil service: another major one is the dramatically higher number of administrators and aides that now inhabit the system from very low numbers just a few years ago; and they’re also unionized and also earning high wages relative to the private sector.

The problem is unions that set out to address what they perceive as unfairness for their members, achieve their objectives but don’t know where or when to stop: it’s really not in their nature to stop.

So, it will be left to the public to rebel, and they will do it by voting out candidates who take money from unions and otherwise defend union interests. Enda Kenny should take heed, if he has continued interests in the populace.

@Reg, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Reg, I would have to agree with at least some of the points you’re making if you had bothered to get your stats right. Why would you quote statistics on pay from 2000-2008? Pay and conditions have disimproved greatly in the last 5 years and yes you’re right, some staff have lost more pay than others…which is exactly why this deal has to be rejected- because it doesn’t address the wastage in the public finances you so emphatically point out and instead it butchers salaries of frontline workers while other sectors seem to be favoured. Also your general, sweeping insult of teachers-although it seems to be a national sport these days- doesn’t fly. Seeing that you are so fond of stats, did you ever look at the OECD figures for teaching hours? Go on, look them up! You and your likeminded selfrighteous friends who think they’re still in the playground where it’s me against them when it comes to public and private sector are hopefully becoming the minority these days. This is bigger than just a few conditions for a few public servants, this is about the Irish people finally standing up to the bullies that are the government or the troika and telling them that we will not be walked over any longer! Time to reclaim some of the power.

The truth is , they will be coming for your arse soon … Once the have finished with the public sector .. That’s the agenda…

No problem. Gov’t would probably then legislate if no agreement were found!

Many Public sector unions became powerful for two fundamental reasons. Some get people elected who will do their bidding and work to destroy any politician who opposes them. The benchmarking changes around the time of the millennium was the fast track to union dominance in enough to allow many public sector workers to organize and collective bargain. Further allowing unions to strike in some changes put them on an even faster track to high taxes, allowances retirement and work rule practices. The country is replete with examples as we are seeing in reforms to public sector pay. Like the elected officials many will never want to give up their benefits.

@reg blah blah blah etc etc

Regio… Do you not ever get sick and tired of writing the same drivel over and over day in day out? Cause when I see your name come up I just feeling like logging off, I’m really tired of your repetition,all of which you could say in a few words i.e ‘I’m anti public servants’! Take a break please and stop ruining the pleasure I get from reading the Journal. Thanks

Regio… Do you not ever get sick and tired of writing the same drivel over and over day in day out? Cause when I see your name come up I just feeling like logging off, I’m really tired of your repetition,all of which you could say in a few words i.e ‘I’m anti public servants’! Take a break please and stop ruining the pleasure I get from reading the Journal. Thanks

I actually never read his posts anymore, copy and paste keyboard warrior our reg is!!!!!! Drivel, of the highest order!!

I’d say that song would be very emotional to some who has left or has seen a loved one leave. All our best and brightest are being forced out of this country because of the greed of a lot of people in power. If I wasnt finacially bogged down at the moment I’d be gone yesterday…….

Jft96 I agree, one of my only two ‘kids’ are gone, not from choice…I’d be gone too except I’m too long in the tooth and have elderly parent here!

Exactly. The Median figure would be a more representative figure of what civil servants earn.

Not everyone rejects a 20% salary increase like the one back near the time of the millennium.

Attitude towards unions is changing and basically has maintained a negative bias since the economic crisis began.

Link for this assertion please.

Vote no

Agree reg, but that’s because their part of the problem, earn big wages , and no longer serve their membership

I am for a fair wage but if you look the pay is not the same as other Euro-Zone countries and we have some of the best packages around.

Change the record Reg.

Shut up reggie you know nothing and are obviously looking to stir the shit here.

…. The cost of living is higher here, it’s that simple, fuel, food,rent, insurance, and that’s not even counting USC, pay cuts, property tax, water tax, frontline staff are finishing their working week with the bare minimum left over in disposable income. People are awake at night worrying about bills. Plus when cuts come in for the public service they tend to stay in for twenty plus years condemning lower paid public servants to penury …… No more cuts….

The cost of living isnt the same as Euro-Zone countries either and neither is the stealth taxes bein forced on people

Just ignore the troll

Bullying and scare tactics – because it cannot be promoted in any positive way!

Agreed, from referenda to manufactured midnight emergencies to threatening ordinary workers, fine gael govern by fear, just like their fascist friends did in the past.

Unbelievable! Don’t be fooled. Voting no is the only solution for this country!

I agree with Liz… We have one chance to change this …we must be steadfast in our stance and “Vote No” !!! Legislation is illegal when the contract is still binding!! Scare tactics my a___! Work to rule for 3 years if we have too! This is not over by a long shot!!!! Our children family and society needs us more now to stand up and say enough is enough! Let’s be the first to show leadership and stand together with pride!!! I’ll go down with the ship but if there is a yes vote they will go back to the well over and over again! 14,000x 3 years paid for my contact how about you!! We took it for the team….and as a team we shall fight these barbaric cuts! Vote No.. you will sleep better at night!

Woohoo!!

Or do you just copy and paste now Regonold???

Do you have a little file with such enlightened statements or do they just come to you? And the term “partisan”? Really? Are you feeling all bourgeois to our proletariat?

Thats at Reginald btw

Well not from you! So why are you worrying! I pay your ‘wages’ on SW. See I can troll too!

It’s a favourite of his Caitriona

He uses same comments on every thread’

Above comment for Reg the pleb!

Reg it’s getting late , you must be on double time at this hour of the night

Public service, public service, public service…. How about u pull a statistic on social welfare out of your arse Reg and see how we compare with the rest of Europe?! How do our private sector wages compare with Greece, Latvia etc.?

It’s his only argument he trots it out at every opportunity, chances are its some one of us public sector workers spending our hard earned spare cash is actually keeping him in a job.

If he changed it to “we pay 2/3rds of your wages” would that be ok?

If he even has one!!

Public sector workers average weekly wage is € 918.99 compared with € 611.66 in the private sector (at the end of June 2012), according to the Central Statistics Office (CSO):

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/2012/earnlabcosts_q22012.pdf

Yawnnnnnnnnn……….

@reg!! Listen hear you poor excuse for a human being! I’m private sector!!!! And I DO not begrudge frontline their more than fair pay! So shut up!!! Your a waste of my taxpayers money! Go get a job and fill your days doing something productive rather than spending your days trolling at every given opportunity!

Broken record reg, no one cares about your drivel.

Wow, in-numerates unite!

Simple solution: double all PS wages immediately. Why stop there? Just multiply them by 10X and sure the country will be rolling in it again.

Why has the animal been asleep throughout the entire ‘crisis’? And has it only woken up now because someone has finally started taking the duvet?
Worst. Guard. Dog. Ever.

Every Taxpayer in this country is been s@it on! Be they public or private. I’m private sector.

Trollololl.

Paddy very simple . If we didnt pay the bank debt we dont owe the money could be used to stimulate the economy instead of taxing everyone hence removing spending power of people. It is that simple.

…..that’s a fair point, we are borrowing more than we put in, but to impose even more cuts on those who can barely afford to live is not the way forward. If anything it will make the problems with our poor tax take worse. As things stand people are drastically reducing their spending, having a whole generation of people defaulting on mortgages, playing fuel light bingo, and shopping in the discount aisle is hardly going to aid our recovery, cuts have been made, they were necessary, but piling on ever more cuts is NOT going to fix the problem. Enough.

Dear oh dear. Paddy Murray repeated claims theres ‘not one suggestion’, only to get one, and then posts the same claim on the next relevant thread.

Well said Stephen the only way out is to spend and put money back into our economy not keep cutting wages and taxing people to the hilt. It’s basic economic’s lesson.

Stephen,

Did you see what we pay our public service compared to other Euro-Zone countries?

@reg blah blah blah…ah what’s the point, your a fool!

Regonold
Do you not get tired of trotting out the same argument can you not add something new to the debate?

I am so sick of him!

Reg, did you compare the cost of living between Ireland and the rest of the E.U? It’s like comparing apples and oranges. Or do you honestly believe that frontline public servants earning 45k a year are filling bathtubs with champagne ( on top of filling government and local authority coffers)? Frontline low to middle income public servants are saying no, not because we are greedy or pampered, but because we are scared. These proposed cuts are for many, a cut too far.

Trotting out the same copy and paste argument reg is actual stupidity. Sad really

actually just as ive not seen his copy paste job. Ireland now has one of the lowest paid police forest in western Europe. earns less then the Met the PSNI the french and German police. that’s just from my own two minute search on Google but i would think its same that irish police earn less then dutch and the rest.

just google police salary france/germany or what ever see for ones self :)

I feel sorry for Reg! Reposting same BS on every site, looking for thumbs down to boost a very lonely ego! The fight is within yourself you pathetic fool!

If we didn’t pay the bank debt nobody would lend us the billions we’re currently borrowing to run the country and there would be no public service and no public service workers.

Paddy, the Bank guarantee is I suppose a different ( if related topic) to The Goverment’s slash and burn policies, seeing as how we’re on the subject tho, one question, do you think the bank guarantee scheme was a good deal or even the right deal for the Irish tax payer?

Bank guarantee scheme was and is a disaster. Gutless Fianna Fail were bullied into it. German Finance Minister said this week that the reason we had to bail out their banks is because everyone knew there was light or no regulation of the financial services industry here. Everyone knew? Of course they did! That’s why he German banks foolishly put their money into the mythical Celtic Tiger. Trouble is, FF signed us up and we’re stuck with it. We can’t afford not to have new taxes and not to have cuts but….

….Ministers’ salaries should be cut by half, mileage and allowances for TDs should be cut if not scrapped, the number of TDs should be cut by half, there should be a new rate of tax of around 75 per cent for salaries over €150,000… none of that would solve the problem. But it would make things a great deal more fair.

Well Paddy in that at least, I agree with you.