Germany and France always ignored it. They will ignore it again. It’s just more EU bolloxology. Very dangerous, destructive to the economy and putting a bandage on a cut hand while the patient is having a massive heart attack.

There’s an umbrella one every Saturday I think from garden of remembrance. Bring the kids. Less room for riot police when kids are present.

Kenny, going against his friends in the ‘European Peoples Party’ you must be joking. He has been holidaying with Merkel and Barosso for almost 26 yrs, google it!

The Lisbon treaty ripped up your constitution…duh

They don’t want us to vote because we will all vote no

Petition – no EU Treaty Changes without a Referendum
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/no-eu-treaty-change-without-referendum.html

Google Endas Kennys ‘European Peoples Party’…Then look who have sat beside him every month for the past 35 years. Sarcozy, Angela Merkel, Barroso, Herman van Rompuy. The EPP now has 16 out of the 27 heads of State or Government in the European Council. WAKE UP IRISH SHEEP….FFS WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!

It really begs d question y nobody in oposition brings this up when it is clear to see were his priorities ly enda kenny might have been born in ireland but he does not have an ounce of irish patriosm about him.
I would rarher our your students run this country with a bit of new vision then these bunch of wasters my life is just begining here an i know i would put the people before my own self interesf i dont understand how they do not

Yes, but Irish people voting YES in successive EU treaties allowed for that. Well done to all

Not everyone voted yes magic and for the record we were misled…as always. Who would blame people for voting yes in light of the scare tactics they used with Lisbon Part 2, hindsight is great but is only useful after the fact and should never be used as an argument, we can only learn from our mistakes…so if you are so magic you predict our future oh mighty one!

@magic You haven’t a clue really have you?

So what lessons did we learn Niamh. Lesson 1 – Never believe what a politician says, go find out for yourself. Lesson 2 – If in doubt vote no.

Absolutely andrew.

What mystifies me is where are all the Yes To Lisbon clowns now?

@Magic. Most of the young ones are in Australia, Canada or England, while the older ones are still sucking the marrow from the corpse that is our economy.

A lot of the yes to Lisbon clowns are hanging their heads, looking sad and saying D’oh.
The rest are rubbing their hands in glee.

Google Endas Kennys ‘European Peoples Party’…Then look who have sat beside him every month for the past 35 years. Sarcozy, Angela Merkel, Barroso, Herman van Rompuy. The EPP now has 16 out of the 27 heads of State or Government in the European Council. WAKE UP IRISH PEOPLE….FFS WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!

But thanks for keeping our banks afloat. And thanks cheers for the cheap money.

And while you’re at it Shane Gleeson, we might as well thank the German banks for the reckless lending tactics that put us in this mess!

IMF…. INTERNATIONAL Monetary Fund…… Shane,

@Gavin That’s like blaming a publican for your hangover because they had €3 pints for the night.

Shane by the time we finish paying back all these loans & interest that we ‘borrowed’ to bail out the banks and bond holders it will amount to more then we ever recieved from the EEC\EC\EU in structual or other funding.

The same people who created the single currency and made Ireland vote twice on Nice and Lisbon inflated the hot air balloon called ‘building europe’. The property bubble was part of the same mania. Anglo’s ponzi scheme wouldn’t have been possible without cheap interbank lending from the eurozone.

How does what other countries do apply to Ireland…….your making a large jump there!

Not sure what Europe has done against us. We as a nation repeatedly elected a government who created this mess we’re in. The Germans and French obviously were not too happy with being expected to fund our fiasco.
And before anyone pipes in with the Germans and French banks loaned us the money perhaps someone will actually prove that. The figures should be available yet I keep asking for proof and no one can provide it.

@Gary

So where do you think the money we borrowed came from? Please get off your high horse. No one is saying that we are blameless, however it is a fact that we have been stiffed with paying off all private debt of our banks including unguaranteed debt at the behest of the european core nations. It is also a fact that US treasury secretary vetoed any writedown on unguaranteed bank debt. There is plenty of evidence out there for these simple truths. Also if you think that previous referenda did not involve some dilution of the powers of our government then you must not have read the treaties as well as you claim.

Finally what is being proposed vis a vis the 3% deficit limit is a strange kind of ‘fiscal union’ . Real fiscal union would involve the ECB being given the powers to act as lender of last resort. Now that’s one treaty change I would vote for.

@Gary My God….words fail me

http://thepressnet.com/2011/04/04/german-and-french-banks-call-the-shots/
For Gary, the brainwashed EU dude

I’m seriously beginning to think that this Gary Clowry guy is the monkey pet of Sarkozy. He seems devoid of all pride in his country or people, he just copy’s and pastes the same crap about the EU here every few weeks. Its almost like he has been brainwashed by some EU loving cult. Its scary, because guys like this are out future!

Nah I just like facts not what people think passes for fact down the pub.
It’s a pity those amounts include all the bank subsidiaries that operate in the IFSC. So for example the money is owed by Acme German Bank Ireland to Acme German Bank Germany, the same company. Try again.

Once again what you just said makes absolutely no sense, its like you just made it up…or read it from the back of a cornflakes box. You are beginning to irritate me, I’ve seen you here before, same copy and paste propaganda EU Federalist crap…you are like a worn out sound-bite. You just look foolish, bye Gary…its been like conversing with a robot :)

@Andrew Logue. The details I’ve seen suggest the money was borrowed off the international money markets, mainly US and UK based. Which also explains why the Americans were so set against us burning the bondholders.
I didn’t suggest that previous treaties didn’t involve sharing some competencies with the EU, obviously they did. I personally don’t have an issue with that. Let me post you something from boards.ie…

“What has “economic sovereignty” ever actually meant in the Republic of Ireland?

Protectionism, corporatism, parochial clientelism, state monopolies by the bucketload, unelected union bosses dictating policy, waves of mass emigration, giveaway budgets, property developers’ tax breaks, unsustainable minimum wages, increasing state spending by 140 percent within 8 years to make a boom “boomier,” bank bailouts, protecting some of the highest paid public servants in the world at the expense of everyone else … where to stop?

We shouldn’t be mourning the loss of Irish economic sovereignty — we should be cheering it. ”
Hard to argue against that really.

@Magic Kelly. I gave you a fact. You may not choose to accept it based on some pre-existing bias but it’ll still be a fact. Nearly every time I see figures about the money owed to Germany they include German banks based in our IFSC. We don’t actually owe that money nor will be ever owe that money so those scary figures are rubbish.

Just who decides there is no requirement for a referendum because our sovereignty is not being affected our very pro EU government?

@Kerry – That would be the job of the Attorney General, and I’d imagine you can be safe in thinking that the AG would always recommend a referendum if there was even a smidgeon of a chance that any other method could be appealed in court.

As Gary said, a referendum has to be held if Ireland is transferring ‘competence’ – i.e. the ability to govern – to the EU in any area. If the deal means no referendum, it means no extra powers are being handed over.

@Kerry. It’s why we have the Attorney General and the Supreme court, to uphold the constitution. Also people could bring a legal challenge if they felt there was a problem. It’s really this simple… No treaty = No new powers.

It’s time to stop blaming others for what we as a nation did to ourselves.

Oh and btw I don’t suppose the people giving me the thumbs down will care to show where I’m incorrect? I won’t be holding my breath though.

I’m seriously beginning to think that this Gary Clowry guy is the monkey pet of Sarkozy. He seems devoid of all pride in his country or people, he just copy’s and pastes the same crap about the EU here every few weeks. Its almost like he has been brainwashed by some EU Federalist loving cult. Its scary, because guys like this are our future!

Gary, maybe people just have issue with your very condescending tone?

@Hank Scorpio. You might be right, and I do apologise for that. But honestly by the time I read down all the comments, all the completely ill-informed xenophobic bull, I was kinda pissed off.

You’re damn right. Ironic that the democratic process destroys democracy.

I didn’t but all you older people did fools …..

Dumb sheep, they deserve it all…all the NO people do not, then again we were right afterall

Laws can be changed, international laws and constitutions too. 100 years ago the union with Britain seemed secure but look what happened.

maybe the students of trinity, and every other college should spend less time debating the IRISH DAILY MAIL and do what students are made to do…..protest!

Says the ‘Fine Gael’ member…obviously :D

hehe I’m not sure some of the lot in here will get the point. They have very bad memories when it comes to the No side lying on the Lisbon treaty.

http://thepressnet.com/2011/04/04/german-and-french-banks-call-the-shots/

For Gary, the brainwashed EU Sheepy dude :)

@Magic Kelly. It’s a pity those amounts include all the bank subsidiaries that operate in the IFSC. So for example the money is owed by Acme German Bank Ireland to Acme German Bank Germany, the same company. Try again.

I have come to the conclusion that you are actually thick :) What you said makes absolutely no sense???

Sure work away with the name calling I really couldn’t care less. I have no idea what agenda you’re selling but you can’t back it up.

Gary Magic likes to push the sheep agenda. No point in trying to have a discussion with him, he just likes to wind people up, he obviously thinks he is hilarious, he needs a lesson in humour/satire.

Most of what the NO side has claimed in the last number of referenda has been mainly nonsense.

I trust it’ll be the same scaremongering this time round.

Vote YES!

Wait what?
David, the Yes camp during the lisbon treaty re-vote said anything but a yes vote was needed to stop Germany and France dictating to everyone else, it also protected our corporation tax with “legally binding guarantees”..

Does having a political party allegiance and sheep mentality render you blind to whats happening now?

And we can’t trust FG to drop their ideals of a federal EU and start representing our country, they are failures as people and as a party but it’ll not be the first time a FG “icon” will sell the country.

Surely something like they are proposing there must be brought forward in a referendum though, as opposed to exploring existing options…?

The letter calls or a common corporate tax base not common corporate tax rates.

Oh Peter stop showing that people haven’t a clue about the difference between tax rates and tax bases. :)

It’s interesting that many of the same people who claim Germany is stopping us burning the bondholders so they get their banks money back are also saying Germany are demanding we change our corporate tax rate thus making it much more difficult to pay them back. All very confusing really.

@Gary I’m serious, you look very foolish and I know you aren’t a fool. You seem quite intelligent actually, so just give it up buddy

@Paul Something incorrect I posted?

Ok Enda Kenny, good man

Spot on Peadar. The only way we can ensure a way out of this crisis is to be walked all over again and again, by our own leaders and by Europe. Never hold anyone accountable, never demand higher standards. Never say why do we like being pissed on so much as a nation.

Merkel knows that if she tried any of the shite that we put up with in Germany, that half her country would be out on the street calling for her head. It is what normal countries do. Same in Holland, France, Denmark, Finland etc. .It is the one consistent factor in all the countries that are bailing us out. The do not have lily livered lazy citizens that lay down and take it.

The lack of protest, or concern for the future is just degrading.

Like Greece! Sad but true.

I really do believe that any kind of protest/civil disobedience can not succeed unless there is a combined international movement. ‘Wild cat’ protests and disruption of political events organized through an international network – #Occupy.
It will be also apparent from here that while the public service aspect of policing will be cut back (closing of police stations etc.) the pay and conditions of individual members and funding towards the public order aspect will be maintained and increased.
Your vote only counts when it’s counted.

hehe. I’m not sure name calling and going ‘la la la you’re wrong’ is what I’d call nullified. But hey believe whatever you want. I’m only interested in seeing the facts get posted, something that we should all welcome. Too many in here have an agenda, they have a bias and they’ll latch on to any statement to show how they were right all along about the EU really trying to steal our babies. Posting figures that show the German banks in the IFSC, money which we’ll never owe is not nullifying anything. Not understanding the difference between tax base and tax rate is not nullifying anything.

I fairness Paul your statement applies more to you than Gary. Just because you say something doesn’t make it true. You would do well to remember that.

Anyone reporting on the Merkosy open letter to Van Roumpy? They have both come out and asked for “Tax harmonisation” – - Wave goodbye to our Corp. Tax rate, our one economic advantage. FG/Lab govt haven’t the balls to stand up to them.