The haters are back. You’ve nothing to say on the outrageous decision by the Israeli government to further copperfasten its illegal occupation of the West Bank.

Course I do, and I’ve said it on many pages on thejournal.ie about israels behaviour. However, gilmore is also the leader of the labour party and is complicit by remaining silent about their suffering under fine gaels jackboot.

“jackboot” .. like I said, that’s the language of a hater. Likewise your patently untrue claim that Eamon Gilmore is silent on the Irish economy. Either you’re not paying attention to the news or you are deliberately telling porkies about the man.

“Revolting Peasant”,

Your post seems to be a bit confused but that’s your problem. Your attempt to stir up anti-Semitism is distasteful in the extreme.

I assume – given that it’s still in place – that the moderators are okay with a comment that implies the Jews were guilty for the persecutions they’ve suffered over the millennia?

“Gilmore said the Israeli government has broken its own “repeated pledges”, giving rise to “serious doubt about the genuineness” of its commitment ”
Is anyone really that surprised by this piece of news. Isreal does what it wants whenever it wants and to hell with everyone else.

Right back at ye Gilmore!!

You wont admit YOUR PARTY has broken its own “repeated pledges”, giving rise to “serious doubt about the genuineness” of its commitment. The only commitment these bare faced liars plan on keeping is to get their hands on their nice fat pensions – TRAITORS!!!!!

Right back at ye Gilmore!!

Another hater (Ann) joins the queue .. all cynicism and faux outrage.

@Desmond. Never said he was silent on the economy. I said he was silent about ordinary peoples suffering. You’re obviously too distracted with your adorable little ‘hater’ rant to read peoples posts properly.

U got that right, too trueleft.

There is nothing “faux” about my outrage, it is quite real.

@ ciaran, i posed a question, it matters not a bit to me whether they are jews or not, the iraelis behaviour is unacceptable, i do not hate them, but i regard all warmongers and invaders as criminals, the question i asked was genuine, do you know the answer? p.s. semites also include arabs

RP,

So why did you bring Jews into it – especially the persecution they’ve suffered for centuries? You ask me do I know the answer? You mean the answer to the question that you now say doesn’t matter to you? Maybe you should go away and gather your thoughts for a while. :-)

are the israelis not jews? have the jews not been persecuted for centuries? are the israelis not now trying to subjugate or drive out the palestinians? are all these things related? are these questions easy enough to understand ciaran? its the simplest language i know

Quoting Revolting Peasant:

“i wonder did the jews always act this way? is this why they have been so despised throughout history?”

“it matters not a bit to me whether they are jews or not”

“are the israelis not jews?”

While you sort out in your own head whether you’re having a go at Israelis or Jews, I’ll just point out that by no means all Israelis are Jews. Indeed, the percentage of Jews in Israel would be far lower than the percentage of Roman Catholics in Ireland. And you wouldn’t equate Irishness with Catholicism, would you?

do you actually have a point to make? please point out the discrepancy here, do you not recognise the difference between a question and a statement ciaran?

@ciaran, your point about the % of jews in isreael v the % of catholics in ireland has nothing to do with this story, you have just defeated your own argument and here is why, jews have political control of israel, including its armed forces, it isnt christians or muslims that are driving christian and islamic palestinians out of their territory and keeping them trapped in the west bank and gaza strip, and you know that as well as anyone else, it is iraeli jews that do it, my question is valid, it isnt anti semetic, you obviously dont have an answer to it

RP, I do indeed have a point to make and it’s that the one you’re trying to make doesn’t make any sense as it stands. You started off wondering if the Jews were despised because of how they behave.

But when I challenged you on this, you said the Jewishness of the Israelis wasn’t relevant. Then in the following post, you backtracked again.

Let’s cut to the chase here. In the above statement, you said,
” i wonder did the jews always act this way? is this why they have been so despised throughout history? i dont believe they care what the rest of the world thinks”

When you said “jews”, did you mean Israelis? Or did you mean Jews?

Simples….no?

but i dont care if they are jews, its an observation and a question, please point out my personal opinion here, you wont find it, and yes i did ask those questions, do you have answers? its not my problem if you misunderstand, repeatedly pointing out my questions is a bit ridiculous as anyone reading these will have already seen them, i still dont see what point you are making, you say that i point out that the jewishness of iraeliis isnt relevant, please point out where i said that? you are making assumptions that i meant different things than i actual;ly posted, it is you that is showing a lack of understanding here ciaran

@ Ciaran & revolting
People of Jewish faith aren’t the problem it’s Zionists.

Thk you

@ciaran in answer to your question do i mean israellis or jews, i mean the israelli jews

@RP

Let’s cut to the chase here. In the above statement, you said:

” i wonder did the jews always act this way? is this why they have been so despised throughout history? i dont believe they care what the rest of the world thinks”

When you said “jews”, did you mean Israelis? Or did you mean Jews?

Simples….no?

Damn….. cross-post.

Ignore previous post.

Right, RP. I won’t drag this out any further, The only point I’d make in response to your latest comment is that Israeli Jews haven’t been around long enough to be “despised throughout history” or “persecuted for centuries”.

under that logic neither have any other jews but the fact is jews have suffered persecution throughout history, i believe there were israelli jews in the biblical time of king david etc your last point is the most ridiculous yet, i have seen documentaries with israelli jewish settlers claiming they have a god given right to the land since the first testament in the bible, are you really trying to say the current activities have no relevance to history? the fact is they are seizing land and driving others out, you may condone that kind of thing, i say its criminal behaviour

How does the point you just made contradict the last point I made?

@ Ciaran Zionists would disagree with you, israelites have been around for a couple thousand years. It’s at the very core of Zionism.

What RP is saying is fine, you don’t need to be arguing with him like a child. His terminology is inaccurate.

Has the Jewish faith always been akin to antisemitism, yes. For many reasons but by and large money is the problem. In an ancient time they were the only ones allowed to handle coin. As such they became synonymous with greed and ownership. Taxation has never been a popular law, especially when it was just being rolled out to people who couldn’t read let alone count. This is when the animosity started but not only that. Their faith is elitist, if you aren’t Jewish you can’t be part of their crew. If you happen to marry a liberal person of judaism faith even their own multi tiered religion will look down upon you and you’ll never be accepted by the more radical.

Over time and with their association and in depth knowledge of finance they soon begun to own large parts of land, businesses, trade and controlled a disproportionate amount of wealth. Over time fear of their unknown circles bread paranoia, jealousy and animosity. Everywhere they went they could get rid of these thousand year old stigmas. Right into modern times and into modern Europe pre and post world war especially was a time when all the stigmas combined into an easy platform for extremist right wing nationalists to target those who have to gain popularity with the have nots. In a world shifting into categories of capitalist, socialist and communist the Jewish faith and their ways became an easy target and as such incurred the wrath of unforgivable extremist views. This is only considering a modern day paradigm, they have been persecuted for 2 thousand years because of what I’ve tried to explain at a very high level mind you.
so:
@ RP: to answer your question all be it not very well put together. Yes.

@ Ciaran: chill out try not debasing everyone’s comments and encouraging arguments.

The both of you perhaps deliberately so are using incorrect terms and phrases in reference to a question I think you both know the answer to but just love to argue for the sake of it.

Now write out a hundred time “I must be nicer to my fellow readers”

@ciaran o hare, thanks for answering my question, it seems to be very difficult to point out or question the crimes of israeli jews without coming across as anti semetic, i was not deliberately using the wrong terminology and i was not enjoying arguing with someone that seemed to be either be deliberately twisting my words or maybe just didnt understand the point, more fool me

That’s ok RP muppets on here love to argue for the sake of it.

RP, that’s fine. Thanks for the clarification. When people here are criticising Israelis, they just call them “Israelis”. There’s no need to refer to Jews because not all Jews are Israelis.

COH,

If you hadn’t gone for the personal insults, I probably would have let this tiresome discussion go. But since you did throw in a few barbs, I’ll throw a few back. Your comments below are nonsense.

“Jewish faith [has] always been akin to antisemitism”
(WTF??)

“[Jews] were the only ones allowed to handle coin”
(Eh? So the Romans, Greeks etc. weren’t allowed handle coins? Who stopped them?)

“if you aren’t Jewish you can’t be part of their crew”
(I know people who have converted to Judaism.)

“Over time and with their association and in depth knowledge of finance they soon begun to own large parts of land, businesses, trade and controlled a disproportionate amount of wealth.”
(I’d like to see a few well-sourced articles backing up this, please. You’ll need examples from numerous countries and numerous time periods.)

Anyway, there’s way more to anti-Jewishness than the financial control thing. What about accusations of blood sacrifice? What about allegations that they were responsible for the Black Death?

You’re promoting a view that places a lot of the blame for anti-Jewishness on the Jews. I will argue with that and if you don’t like it, well….tough.

They used to say that about Northern Ireland.

Well – let them at it. Let them sort it out. Haven’t we enough to deal with here at the mo without concerning ourselves with the problems of others ? OK – he’s Minister for Foreign Affairs & all. Deal with our own probs 1st on your – what is it – E190k a year salary.

I don’t know what your salary is Declan, but if you’re pulling down nearly €200k then the best of luck to you! As for ignoring the rest of the world. I’m sure your head-in-the-sand attitude does not extend to inward investment by multinationals. Are you, therefore, saying that you’re only interested in the rest of the world when you think there’s money in it?

Desmond – I wish I was on E200k a year. I’m abs nowhere near that. I wish I was, though. I don’t have my head in the sand one bit. Yes – there are probs out there & let them deal with it. We have probs of our own here. Let us deal with them. No. I don’t involve myself with foreign issues only when there is money in it for good ol’ Eire Go Broke. There are many, many countries around the world who need help. Help we should. Right now we have our own probs, massive “private debt” we have to pay & our own politicians ought to be dealing with that as a matter of priority. I don’t know why some, not all, some Irish obsess about Israel. There are many other countries that need much more attention. Anyway – making a cuppa. Cheers !!

Desmond, not often we agree on anything. Gilmore is right to scream this from the roof-tops and i hope Shatter backs him up, or is sacked a a minister in the Government. I have been to the Westbank and Gaza, and i am from the North originally. If you treat people like crap, you can only reap what you sow. There will be a backlash from this. The EU must immediately impose sanctions similar to Iran on all trade with the country of Israel, until they pull out fully from Palestine (based on 1967 borders). The Irish government can act unilaterally on this, otherwise, Gilmores words are not worth the paper they are written on… I can’t believe I agree with you on anything ;)

I bet the Isreali’s are shaking in their jackboots at Gilmores condemnation . BUT i am glad he has voiced his opposition to the u turns isreal has made on their pledges .
NOW Mr Gilmore can you translate that to Ireland ,and condemn your own u turns against us Irish .

I don’t know whether you noticed, Hugh, but Eamon Gilmore is Minister for FOREIGN AFFAIRS and Trade. That means he’s expected to speak on behalf of the Irish government and people on “… non irish issues”!

Absolutely, Hugh O Connell. We have enough probs here to deal with. Let other countries deal with their own.

@Desmond. He is also the leader of the labour party, and is remining silent about his peoples suffering.

That statement simply shows you’re not paying attention to the news, Trueleft. Just take a look back at Journal.ie for extensive commentary and action by Eamon Gilmore et al on the Irish economy, for example.

@Desmond. Never said he was silent on the economy. I said he was silent about ordinary peoples suffering. You’re obviously too distracted with your adorable little ‘hater’ rant to read peoples posts properly.

D O’Toole

“look back at Journal.ie for extensive commentary and action by Eamon Gilmore”
I suggest you go back and look at the extensive commentary in his parties election manifesto and the LACK of action he promised there in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQw6JjpHI1I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH5vxOYzxGg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7oaZKkppNw

I think I’d rather use the words Loath and Despise!!

And heres a few more clips to jog that memory of yours

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5HgosQxqTI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpr2zaXvb4M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpr2zaXvb4M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=587Sv4fiL_k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=2x7fhvsk6Ys&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QXMOFC9y

Enjoy!

Tumbs down eh lol

John,
unfortunately this is simply not true. Please read “From Time Immemorial” by Joan Peters. It is full of historical references and a full bibliography for you to check that suggests that Jews were never treated as equals in Arab countries and repeatedly targeted for pogrom style attacks. It doesn’t go back millenia, but far enough to prove the need for a Jewish state was not simply borne from the Holocaust.
As for Noam Chomsky, have you read his nemesis Alan Dershowitz? There is a lot written on this topic, so worthwhile reading both perspectives and reaching a balanced conclusion.