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Dublin: 7 °C Thursday 23 May, 2013

Half of drivers with penalty points think they were caught unfairly

A survey of 4,000 motorists also found a small number of drivers have been ‘swapping’ penalty points.

Image: Mark Stedman/Photocall Ireland

ALMOST HALF OF drivers with penalty points feel hard done by over how they got the punishment.

A survey of 4,000 motorists by AA Ireland found that 46 per cent of respondents felt that the circumstances in which they had received penalty points were fair – but slightly more than that disagreed.

Just over 48 per cent of people surveyed felt aggrieved over how they received the penalty points.

The survey also found a small number of drivers have been swapping penalty points. 2 per cent of the motorists polled said they had been asked by another driver – most often a family member or friend – to accept penalty points on their behalf.

“Motorists know the importance of penalty points and have overwhelmingly supported them,” said AA Director of Policy Conor Faughnan.

“But at the same time nobody likes to receive them. A lot of people complained that while they may have been speeding, so were the cars in front of and behind them, and they are inclined to feel harshly treated because they were the ones stopped”.

In many cases drivers complained that they received penalty points for slightly exceeding a speed limit that was too low for the road in question.

Around 766,000 people – roughly one third of all drivers – have at least one penalty point. Less than 3 per cent of these drivers have six of more points.

“This is a clear indication that once a driver receives points they become much more inclined to be careful,” said Faughnan.

Do you have any penalty points? And did you deserve them? Tell us in the comments…

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Comments (61 Comments)

  • We have dual carriageways out there with speed limits of 60km when 80km would be fine. Also when the new M3 opened they dropped the speed on second road from 100km to 80km only to push people onto the money road. Where are the cameras… Yes on the old 80km road.

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  • 5kph over limit keeping 2 second rule you get 2 penalty points plus fine… Tailgating at limit, which is the no 1 cause of crashes you get no points or fine.

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  • I speed. I WILL get caught. I WILL be p!ssed about it. I WILL bitch about ALL the reasons that its “totally fecking unfair” and “thats a ridiculous fecking limit for that road anyway”.

    But, in the end I’ll accept that I WAS speeding and I’m actually quite glad that’s the first time I was caught cos I’ve been lucky for a long time.

    Oh, to have Autobahns……….

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  • DaveC 29/01/12 #

    The 60km/hr speed limit on the old airport to swords road is nothing short of ludicrous. People are always caught there and it’s actually more dangerous looking at the speedometer the whole time trying to keep to the 60km/hr limit.

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    • There used to be a ridiculous 60km limit on the N11 at Cherrywood, I was pulled over late at night doing 84km. €80 fine and two points. I was way over the limit, but a few months later they raised the speed limit of that stretch of road to 80km. I was still left with the points though!

      Tough to take but in fairness for every time I’ve been caught, I’ve got away with it 10 times so I probably do deserve a few points.

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  • I’ve got 3 points – 1 of them I deserved, the other 2 were a complete joke!! Even though I have a hands free phone system in my car, a Garda claimed that she saw me with my phone up to my ear. That doesn’t make sense because if I had my phone up to my ear, I wouldn’t have heard anything through the handset as it comes through the radio speakers. But no matter how much I protested and pleaded with her, she wrote a ticket and told me that I could appeal it but risked more points and a higher fine in court. A court is going to believe her over me so no point in appealing – I had to bite my lip and take the medicine which I didn’t deserve. lol

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  • while I agree in theory with the system. I think that hiding behind lamposts and trees to catch someone is not really a fair system. If they are really out for safety then make yourself highly visable and a lot more cars will slow down. Plus make the speed fit the road. A country back road can be 80kmp. A road here with no houses either side 50kmp and a car up your ass. safety? money racket?

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  • Usually the Garda are right, but you can fault them for being a bit too strict at times. Any time I got caught for something I deserved it.

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  • Was caught on the sea front in Clontarf on New Years Eve doing 63/km/hr. The van was parked clocking cars about 200m after the limit drops from a 60 zone to a 50 zone. Sneaky bastards. Felt very hard done by. Drives me nuts thinking about it…

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    • So even if you were still in the 60km/hr zone you would have been speeding?!

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    • 10% margin for error. So 63kmh is ok in 60 area

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    • As was said, there’s usually a 10% allowance. Because speedometers work by measuring the speed of the axle rotation if you have ever changed alloy size or to a lower tyre (e.g. my car should have 195/60 but I use a smaller size 195/50) that means your speedometer is giving you an inaccurate reading. I verified this myself by measuring my speed using a GPS on a straight flat road and when the GPS said I was doing 60mph my speedo said 68mph. My speed is being under-clocked because my wheel diameter decreased due to lower tyres. If you have went up an alloy size or more then it would be over-clocked. Guards know this and usually will give 10% allowance because of it.

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  • Does anyone know where the money from the fines actually goes? l tried once to find out and gave up after being sent around in circles. I suspect like everyone else that it is just another form of road tax. I passed a van one day that had caught the three cars that passed me out while I was doing bang on 60mph. I pulled over down the road for my lunch and counted the number of cars that passed me and estimated the number that were speeding. In the hour that I was there I figured that that van brought in roughly €6500! The van was parked at the far side of a hill that had a climbing lane on a straight stretch of road. So your speed is up to safely pass the vehicle on the inside lane but as you crest the hill and prepare to slow down the van is there.

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  • penalty points are a great fund raiser, the places they have their cameras are never on the dangerous small roads with the high speed limit but on the double lane new roads with inappropriate speed limits. As for the man with the hands free u shoulda stood up for yourself. You are typical of the majority of people on this island, taking all the shit they throw at you then giving out when its to late.

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  • No offense to those drivers, but there’s no such thing as “caught unfairly”, (and yes I had penalty points before , nabbed on the phone, fair and square)

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    • People are moaning about the times they were caught. What about he times they were not caught. Same old story really. When they are caught like criminals they always claim it was their first time ever doing it. The jails are jammed with people who are innocent….my arse!

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    • A bit like people that share files illegally online

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    • Rob 29/01/12 #

      i think what this comment represents is as follows:

      i) close to 100% of people would agree that safer roads are better for all
      ii) close to 100% of people would agree that they have seen people drive unsafely given the quality of a road or the road conditions and would agree that this type of driving should be harshly dealt with
      iii) probably close to 50% of people have received penalty points where the gardai have identified a very easy spot to shoot fish in barrels – most of the time these are on dual carraigeways with either 50km or 60km speed limits – which given the almost motorway quality road conditions – it is easy to venture over the limit unless you are vigilantly watching the speed – also i think almost all people would agree that this does not represent dangerous driving?! also i know several people who have received points for texting while stopped in traffic – which surely wasn’t what the law was intended for?

      i think this is why people think its unfair – because they can see that they are being targeted for soft penalty points – rather than making more effort to target dangerous drivers!

      myself i was told i broke a red light – something i disagree with still – but didnt risk taking it to court (the guard told me he had to break a red light to follow me through the junction – therefore i must have broken the red light also – even though i was in front of him!?)

      u are right in that the law is the law is the law – but that doesnt make the law fair!

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    • Good points Rob, its not that Im uber straight on this, and yes , Id feel annoyed if I got caught texting while in traffic. But at the same time, if you clearly know what you are doing is illegal, well then don’t moan when you get caught.

      Especially if the thing you’re doing isnt really necessary or important, i.e. texting in traffic, going above 60km on certain parts of a duel carriageway. They dont make sections of it 60km for no reason.
      And if it really WAS important, (lets say going to hospital or something), not only would Guard probably let you off, but if it was very important they would probably escort you. Ive heard of that happening before.

      Again, Im not saying Im an angel in any way, but I know if I get caught, itll be because I took the chance, not because I am being unfairly treated.

      My point is, protest and try change the overall law, not the fact that you got caught breaking it.

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    • Your red light case is exceptional because thats your word vs the Guards. If you genuinely know you didnt break it then yea, theres reason to feel unfairly treated.

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    • Rob 29/01/12 #

      yea to be honest my main issue is the argument that penalty points has been so good for road safety.

      obviously it has been some help but i think it has had a very modest impact when compared to the safety benefits we’ve had from all our new motorways (and also to an extent from the fall in traffic since Celtic tiger peak).

      RSA are unwilling to compromise themselves by saying this – but given that Motorways have always been the safest roads – and we now carry out more car journeys by motorway than ever before – i would suggest this has been the key factor in improved road safety.

      not looking for a german system here – but i just think that we could be far more productive by targeting penalty points at the black spots and key causes of accidents.

      completely agree – if the law is the law – then u cant complain about getting caught – but we’d much rather moan about the stupidity of it than protest against the existence of it!

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  • jimbo 29/01/12 #

    Well with the placement of some of the go-safe vans and gatso vans it would deem to be unfair some cases have been in court and they have got off,there is a huge thread on boards regarding this.
    Also of late ive notice the vans to be out more than usual,i reckon this is tax colllecting rather than been there to slow drivers down

    here is the thread by the way enjoy the read

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2056059521

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  • Very proud of myself, I’ve no points at all!

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  • Since speed limit signs are few and far between in this country I tend to drive at the speed that feels right for the road I’m on- hasn’t steered me wrong yet, except for after the new n7 opened and I was pulled up doing 140km in 100km zone- my bad! 100km is a ridiculous limit for that road anyway

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  • Let’s all go back to the pony and gig. Lot more relaxing and no licence needed.

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  • it was the fault of the really old guy who drivo at 40mph for over half and hour which made me overtake him on a meridian so I did NOT deserve the point on my license for that!!!! lol
    It was years ago and gone now but I did blame the old guy!!!

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    • Your good to go so, that f@@ker is likely dead by now.

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    • that story brought a smile to my face. I got nabbed in cullahill years ago. over took a car & caravan and just as I was pulling back in I spotted the blur shirt stepping out from behind the wall I knew the game was up. that was before penalty points and fixed charge penalties so summons arrived at local garda station. much ribbing from local guards followed by getting someone I had met in the long hall to look up a solicitor in the locality to go into rathdowney court to plead guilty. life was much more simple then.

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  • I’ve been clocked twice now by the mobile vans.
    They are supposed to target dangerous spots where accidents are more likely to happen.
    Not in my experience…
    They were out of site on long straight stretches of new roads..
    Keen to catch people and get their bonus.
    Thankfully I have a uk license and can’t collect the points.

    There should be a penalty system for slow drivers and Drivers who don’t dip their beams, cars with lights out..and and councils who neglect pot holes.
    These factors are contributing more to dangerous conditions on our roads

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  • I don’t think theres anything wrong for Garda to hide behind a ditch or lane-way. People who get caught speeding give out that the gardai were hiding, but the truth is if you see the gardai in front of you doing a speed check, you’ll slow down for that 30 seconds until you pass them and then speed up again as they go out of sight in your rear view mirror. If you are speeding, you deserve to get caught. How you get caught is irrelevant.
    A lot of drivers involved in high speed crashes actually ‘don’t’ have penalty points. Either they were never caught or the points were removed after the 3 years. So they drive faster than the guy with 4/6 penalty points and are more likely to be involved on a accident.

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  • No points here thankfully… But there are roads which have no houses or are classed as built up and the limit is 50KPH and guess what, a Garda Speed trap there 3-4 days of the week, but there are still some roads which are twisty and curvy, plenty of blind spots yet the speed limit remains at 80KPH, doesn’t make sense!

    I’m sure I drive -no pun intended- when i stick to the speed limit, but I’m not going to take a penalty point for them.

    All cars should be fitted with a Speed Limiter im my opinion, which at the very least lets the car stay at the speed as opposed to getting frustrated with people who speed up & slow down, or those who insist on driving in the middle lane of 3 lane roads like the M50, making you either have to go out 2 lanes to pass them or else undertake them.

    Those who want to speed, be my guest… I am still surprised to see the amount of people who are on the phone whilst driving, there are enough cheap devices that let you drive and talk hands free!

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    • Couldn’t agree more, but a conventional cruise control is near lethal in heavy traffic, I found, on one car that had it. What is needed is a maximum speed limiter, that allows you to drive normally up to the limit that you set by pressing a button while at the desired max speed, with a ‘kickdown’ for emergencies. This would allow you to instantly reset it for 50, 60, 80, 100 k etc. So, in towns you move off and drive normally, up to your set 50k, and so on. This would allow you to concentrate fully on driving to suit road conditions – what a novel notion!

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    • @Hedley

      That’s what I meant, not cruise control to which we don’t really have the roads here for that. I have an adjustable speed limiter just as you described fitted. That way also ensures I can keep my eyes on the road without having to constantly look at the speedometer which in itself has the potential to be the cause of a fender bender or worse…

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  • Conor. Why do they have to crash to face court. You don’t have to crash if driving while drunk ( 80mg per 100 ml) yet you still have to attend court. Text drivers should be treated as criminals as do drink drivers

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  • i know somebody who got points for making a right turn that was illegal between 7am and 10am. Seriously.

    i got mine for doing 100 on the navan dual carriageway…heads up limit there is 80!!

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  • If the RSA are so concerned about speed, why have they INCREASED speed limits from 70mph to almost 75mph (120kmh) on motorways? Why do they not tell us that texting while driving is more dangerous than drink driving? Not 1 politician has the balls to stand up and represent the victims of text drivers and make them pay
    the same penalty as drink drivers?

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  • If anyone in Ireland can explain the logic of three year period for retaining points in a license, please feel free. I get the impression that the traffic offences are the ‘low hanging fruit’. Maybe more resources for the Anglo investigation would be a better use of police manpower.

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  • i know a little secret in which you will never get caught… “DONT BREAK THE LAW WHEN DRIVING’
    driving is a privalige so why ruin it for yourself and others

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    • You just back from mass oh holy one?? There are no hit and run or joy riding people talking on here. It is people discussing marginal decisions, injustices, and inappropriate speed limits on certain roads. It’s what the story asked us to discuss.

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  • I’ll give it to you from a professional drivers perspective. I like most truck drivers have accumilated lots of points on my license. 3 speeding offenses were commited on dual carriageways @ night time & were in the order of 10 to 20 kmh over the limit. Twice on the phone one of those times i have no defense the other i answered stopped @ trffic lights. Now i have a relative & she has no points & she truly is the most dangerous driver of them all. I now have no points because im unemployed but when i go back to work i will probably have them again. Its the nature of my job i have to break the law to make money & until that changes i disagree with the points system.

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  • I hope everyone Garda hiding in ditches gets piles and/or Weil’s disease.

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  • Gotta love those points……The roads are deserted now. Cops have less drivers to hit on so the few that are left on the road are taking all the pain. What do points make?………Points make prizes. It makes the cops feel all powerful and keeps them away from the Zero profit crimes such as Murder……No money in murder folks!

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  • I’ve 6 points and proud, although have to be a good boy for a while. all for speeding, 140-150k on motorway each time ah well have to take your medicine. at least I was caught by any real garda not a van!

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  • 58km in a 50 zone, 2 points and a fine, fuckin right I felt aggrieved!!
    And another point, the price of everything has dropped but it would be politically incorrect to drop these fines.

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  • Jane 29/01/12 #

    Turn on Pick Tv now and we’ll all understand that the system is required! Horrific!!!

    Reply

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