Sean the people voted for austherity so that’s what we will be giving! I personally voted no on austherity but my vote never counts.

Yes some will fill these jobs , unfortunately they are being offered a two year contract only, if they could move to the same conditions after the contract that would be fairer, still wrong bit fairer ,

They should ask the IMO to co-fund these nurses. If they can give Chief Executives pensions worth €20m, I’m sure they can afford it.

Vincent , the nursing union with Liam doran didn’t even pay strike pay unlike Siptu , can’t rely on your own union, no chance of others doing so

Now this IMO scandal is something that needs to b blown out of the water for sure.

IMO has already been blown out of the water. Unless you are a fully paid up member of the IMO it has absolutely nothing to do with you. The IMO is a private organisation, fees are paid for membership by member docs, not the public.

Vincent what’s Kenny’s pension worth currently?

James it’s our business when we are handing over €60 for a consultation with a GP whose rep body, the aforementioned IMO pays a massive pension then suggest that it members are at breaking point

Tensing; if you’re paying €60 for a GP visit, change GP.
Second of all, you can use that logic to say that the cup of coffee I’m drinking right now is your business, or the food in my press is your business or my electricity bill is your business.

Ehmmm, I think you’ll find it was the nursing and teaching unions who sold out future members under the Croke Park Agreement to save their own wages and pensions. They agreed to it and are now giving out? Typical unions, thugs and swine.

@Mark, you make a crucial point re unfairness. Being paid 80% (or less) than your colleagues for doing the exact same job just because you entered the system a few yrs later is not fair or right. If we think our nurses, doctors, teachers etc are paid too much then reductions in salaries must be shared among all pay grades not just for graduates/new entrants.

I think you will find it hard to get a company that did NOT reduce graduates entry pay by at least 20%. My company (multinational) reduced pay for masters qualified & PhD entry from €30k to €25k. Those that got in are glad to have a career and a salary.

Btw: we have also taken pay reductions and increases in hours in the last 5 years, because we understand the companies perspective (reduce costs or we can move to lower cost countries). Unfortunately rather than understanding the bigger picture, unions and the nurses that vote for them want to keep their big piece of the pie. This CPA is nothing but selfish pork belly politics, and junior nurses need to realise it is the senior nurses who made it that way, and tell the union to feck off.

Alien8, nurses have taken pay cuts too, I agree it would be fairer if a cut is to be made to share the burden , however why nurses again, our conditions remain less than comparable professionals , physio, occupational therapy etc,
But the bigger issue is hse numbers, and politicians wages and pensions, paying mayors pensions allowing people to retire early before40 years service, we could go on but why bother, easy targets always get hit
First in this country, Fine Gael and labour, don’t forget

Shay, lab techs have taken a massive cut and new graduates are also on 10% less than what the rest of us would have started on and that starting salary has been cut by thousands too. Its not just nurses who have been affected.

Tommy, fair point, but are they only being offered a 2 year contract

So you want to cut the other salaries by 20%? Bit harsh.

Point out where I said such a thing?

Primary teaching is a three year degree

New teachers took 20% cut and pension cut. 30000 before tax.Go find another target instead of the easy one.

I can see why people are taking these jobs. Desperate times, need experience, loans to pay off, elderly parents, mortgage payments. The reasons are endless and they should not be vilified for it.

Hi Jacque, just wondering if you plan on applying for one of these positions or if many of your graduate peers are tempted?

It’s a tough one really isn’t it, take a job with poor enough terms and conditions and take a chance thats its a temporary measure or have to emigrate. I’d hate to be in your shoes.

In reality people what we have here is some of the nations brightest, having gotten 400+ points in the LC, having completed 4 years in college with many hours of work experience earning €11 per hour, and I presume the pension levy must come off that even though its a contract position and the 2 years might not even count (I may be wrong on that)

Jacqui, doctors use full stops!!!

“Doctors use full stops”.
Doctors can barely write legibly, full stops mean nothing when you can’t read the rest of what they’ve written.

Go abroad Jacqui. Get out of this country and work somewhere where you will be properly paid and valued.

Eh hello get real guys, I know someone close to me, got 575 points in leaving, did four year degree in health related course, won gold medal, now not working in the area…working for one of the ‘big four’ for LESS than this wage. Take it or leave it, most people who work on health area are caring and sympathetic not just nurses though nurses do a great job, but they are not the only ones we have ALL taken cuts, many have been FORCED to leave the country, with masters etc because there are NO JOBS at any salary, very very sad state of affairs!

Joan – I don’t understand why you keep saying ‘get real’ and then carry on saying things that make no sense and are not even remotely realistic..

Hi Jacqui,
Nobody will ever understand exactly what we do unless they have done it too or even worked alongside us. Dont even bother trying to explain to ignorant people here talking sh*t.
We are the first ones there during an arrest on the ward, whos going to do CPR and call the doctors and cardiac team etc without us? The whole rotten system would grind to a halt without ward nurses, theater nurses, intensive care nurses, etc etc you get the idea. Wonder who will get the patients out of bed and down to theater?
Best of luck guys but I refuse to accept the treatment we get here. Majority of the public have no idea the responsibilty we carry or what we do, think we’re like maids, I’m out of here!

Cabk Joan feels hard done by that her daughter got 575 points in the leaving did radiography or something similar and now can’t get a job. While Nurses are being offered jobs for two years at 80% pay need lower points than her daughter got and are outraged I hope this clarifies it just read her posts on all the nursing related articles here.

Melissa-Mai
Good luck in your endeavours your dead right nurses are noone’s maids time we all remembered that.

Becky, I was referring to the idea that a nurse, upon graduation, needs to go on and do professional exams like accountants do with the ACCA. Once a nurse is qualified, they are fully ready, fully functional. Remaining current is something universal, not just applicable to nurses, but also doctors, architects, engineers….
Agree with your point about interns learning from us, very important that this happen (both ways).

my apologies james!

@becky- I think a lot of people’s sympathy for nurses was exhausted when Liam Doran & co. held the nation to random during the Celtic Tiger. A whole lot of people with degrees start on a whole lot less than these nurses.

Vincent true but they finish on a lot more

@shay- but few of them have the job security nurses have.

“Few of them have the job security nurses have”.
You’re saying that about the nurses who are being placed on 2 year contracts, for 20% less than those on permanent contracts? At least try to be logical Vincent.

Had job security , but proves that your not comparing like with like

James nurses have job security because they are needed, whether public service or not, in the private section it is the same, our jobs are real and needed,

Cliondhna, the person close to me did not do radiography and can get a job in her related field, but she chose a different path due to lack of career progression. The only point I’m making is that nurses are not the only ones being exploited in this way, loads and loads of other graduates are in similar positions many having to leave the country for work as there at NO jobs at any salary for them. I’m not feeling hard done by in the least, I’m very lucky that all my family and friends are employed, most employers, including the HSE are taking the piss!

Apologies Joan

IMO is completely, totally and utterly separate of the HSE.
Also, that payout was paid by doctors, consultants, and NCHD’s. not by the HSE, or the public. Completely different issue.

Senan, that’s nonsense. The IMO paid for the pension from membership contributions of the doctors who make up its ranks.

The HSE had nothing to do with it.

You’re right guys l, i totally jumped the gun on this one, sorry!

Bang on Dave, total BS…..of course the HSE controlled by none other than Reilly would pretence that there overwhelming interest in the positions, it goes beyond total belief not just how gullible people are reading this Horsesh.t but how they can’t connect the dots…..

Well boys we’ll see, won’t we? And no doubt you guys will be back on here admitting you we’re wrong.

were

Be great when they are proven right and you have to crawl back to what ever fairy land you live

Been there and done it but we get every bank holiday off, no weekend work, no nights, 12hrs is not our standard working day and we are not dealing with sick & dying ppl. I’m sure everyone at some stage has experienced a hospital and would agree nurses are the main drivers of patient care.

Would you work in your job if a graduate solicitor/accountant was being paid 20% more than you for doing the exact same job?

When a nurse qualifies they do not need further study, exams, nothing. A nurse on qualification is doing the exact same job as a nurse on the job 10 years. Not 80% of the job, the exact same job. 100% the exact same.

What is your point?

Accountants do not ‘have to study for exams on top of working full time’ – they are given lots of annual leave fully paid to assist with this – also they are trainee accountants and these exams allow them to achieve a higher qualification which is widely recognised and will stand to them in later years allowing them to get a higher salary – additionally all their books, classes and exams fees are fully paid for by the companies they work for – hence a lower starting wage. Additionally first year accountants are not required to act as seniors on jobs (aka they do not have much responsibility but rather are allotted tasks which are then double checked for errors).

Hence you can in no way compare nursing graduates to accountancy graduates.

Was only responding to ‘Arbitrasures’ question !

Most people choose a job because of a interest in that area not for the money,I doo feel sorry for the nurses the pay cuts,long awkward hours,abusive drunks.
nurses are heros I visited a&e in December for a xray and the attention I received from the nurses was amazing.
Only fault it can be a while to see someone but you can’t forget they make the best of a terrible system

Not true.If a nurse wants to get promoted they have to go on and do further courses I left Ireland in 1997 as there was no jobs for nurses unless you were connected.The pay was much lower in the UK.Now graduate nurses from Ireland are very sought after here and starting pay is about 25 K Sterling

Ger, obviously. However in order to practice as a general nurse, a graduate nurse does not need to do such a thing.

Nobody smears faeces on trainee accountants.

Trainee solicitors don’t go home with other people’s vomit in their pockets.

New nurses shouldn’t be earning the same as other professionals, they should be earning much more.

And how do we know your account is not made up!

They are not trainee nurses, they are fully registered, fully functional, fully fledged nurses.
When you graduate as a nurse you are not a trainee, you are a nurse.

Depending on the firm your looking at mid 20′s. The nurses will be paid €21,769 gross before tax & levies, but will be working shift work including nights and the only way to increase pay will be by weekends.

They are not trainees after 4 yrs in college as opposed to solicitors & accountants. They are registered staff nurses with full responsibilities and will be responsible for training graduates coming behind them also.

Year four of their course I believe is the final practical part of their course to bring them to this level.

Completely different careers in every way – you cannot compare these graduates.

Experience obviously counts for nothing so.

Experience is taken into account when you consider pay scales. That is the reason for their being.

What crap, when you graduate in say Radiation Therapy you have done placements the same as nurses as part of your course for which you do not get paid and you still do not get paid same as those with experience, placement is just supervised on the job experience, nothing else, you may be called a staff nurse on graduation but will have no real experience, and will still be under supervision. Anyway it’s like everything else, divorce, abortion etc don’t like don’t do…simple!

depends wether you define a good or bad accountant or good or bad soliditor trainee means tried not tested
it’s about career choice

Joan they won’t be supervised as you put they will work within their scope of practice as all registered nurses do they will have a caseload as all registered nurses do there isn’t any supervision once your registered.

Niallers, unfortunately this appears to be the new rate of pay for nursing, 2 year contract then goodbye, reapply for another 2 years same contract, nothing suggests that existing contracts will ever be given again , your right the unions have sold the graduates down the river to protect the rest of us

It’s not even to protect us Shay it’s to protect themselves!! maybe if they had a different and did 80% of the work we do it would be fair but can you imagine the chaos.

Aoife=Eamon Gilmore!!

HSE? Agree.

Joe nurses don’t earn 2-3 times what they earn in England think I’m missing your point

Oh I see you we’re referring to welfare rates which is another topic altogether

Joe nursing was never cushy!

Nursing is a lot of things Joe. Hard work, involved, challenging, tiring, invigorating, draining (physically, mentally, emotionally, financially). Cushy is not any of those things Joe. Nurses look like haggard messes for a reason. The cushy lifestyle ain’t that reason.

Secure pensionable employment with a golden handshake at the end. No performance measures as you see in private sector. There are many jobs out there which are physically, mentally, emotionally, financially draining which don’t get public sympathy. Since when did we start using public sentiment to quantify what salary scales should be. The best practice is to compare nursing salaries subjectively to salaries across Europe, not how you felt during an emotionally charged time that one time a nurse looked after your dad when he was sick. I saw a comment on a separate article here yesterday of a man who said doctor’s salaries should not be touched, because a doctor saved his life once. What a load of nonsense.

The man who keeps your tap running, or who inspects a bridge you cross every day is as integral as a nurse that interacts with you in the course of her job.

No performance measures?? Are you serious? Wow joe you really dont know the first thing about nursing. Your patients wouldnt last a day if you werent good at what you do. what a ridiculous thing to say.

Joe;
Since when was a plumbers job emotional? When does a builder speak to patients and their relatives about DNR requests? Or explain what a referral to the palliative care service means?
“Doctors salaries should not be touched because one once saved his life”: doctors didn’t just do this once. They do it every day they turn up to work. The nurse does not just interact with you, we interact with many people in many diverse ways many times a day.
The risk we face as frontline workers is humongous. Since my return to Ireland last June I’ve been held against my will (x2), I’ve had physical violence threatened, and acted upon a number of times, I’ve seen female nurses be sexually demeaned while the patient still expects to be treated.
Joe, your comparison of nursing to a plumber or a builder is completely unfair. They are three different jobs that can never compare. Ever. Ever. Ever.

Im not comparing nurses to plumbers. Im making the point that both are equally integral to our everyday lives. Society needs running water just as much as it needs medical care. I’m questioning the validity of the types of anecdotes you offer, or the emotional impact a job has, when determining what remuneration package should apply to it.

You need to be clinical and subjective. The fairest comparison seems to be comparing to European averages. For example, you hear emotionally charged arguments about how tough being a lone parent is in Ireland, and how this group is amongst the “most vulnerable” in society. Then you look at fact. In Ireland, lone parent family payment is €217.80. In the UK it is €81.00. Or carer’s allowances per week – Ireland is €204.00 per week, in the UK is €70.14.

Joe, true sentiment isn’t a criteria for maintaining pay levels, however nurses are assessed , pt have a right to complain to the nursing board and the hospital management , if found to preform below acceptable levels they are sanctioned up to and including dismissal,
Nursing pensions are linked to the old age pension since 1992, half wages between both maximum, golden hand shakes are for politicians/ bankers and senior management

Golden handshakes are for any civil service position after enough years service. Gardai, teachers, etc get 150% of their annual salary on retirement. That kind of package in the private sector would be unheard of and absurd. Im not denying that nursing is an extremely important job with numerous challenges, regulatory, professional etc as you point out. I’m just simply proposing that’s it’s time to take emotionally charged language and anecdotes out of the debate.

Joe comparison of salaries across Europe is futile, unless you include child care costs, basic cost of living,

Joe , I hear you , remember that lump sum is now taxed, the more you earn the better you do,
And when you start in the public service , you must sign up to the pension as part of your contract, also you are not allowed a private pension, back in the day many thought private pensions would do better and attempted to escape this, ok I accept they glad now they didn’t