She did not die because of the pregnancy read the real report.
Medical Abortions are preformed regularly ireland.
What we are getting from this report is melicious Misinformation .

9 people hate proof and facts. gets in the way of their rants.

No. Just the Facts.

Facts are that 16 women a year from exactly the same thing in UK. And abortion is legal there. People needs to get their facts straight!

*die

Yes, because childbirth kills women, not abortions. As far as I’m aware, it’s still legal in the UK to give birth. You can campaign to make it illegal, but you won’t be getting any support from me.

Whatever problems India may have, that does not remove our obligation as a supposedly developed state to protect the lives of women.

If an Irish national died in India you would expect out Govt to look for answers! They have every right, actually a duty to find out what happened!

You are the one with some nerve boyo. We’re being characterized as a bunch of peasant bog hoppers who let an innocent woman die in a hospital because of a very strange cult. So you tell me … Are we?

And cows are sacred out there.

And Catholics worship a middle eastern man who was his own father. What’s your point?

Not just cows John Hayes, but then again if you wanna make ignorant generalisations don’t let me stop you..

@ John Hayes .. There ain’t no pedophile cows, are there?

are they doing so in ireland?

also, do you keep a close eye on local current affairs on the sub-continent?

The point Dom is making is that the Indian government cannot criticise us. They have appalling standards of health care, road safety etc… There are millions of starving children starving and quite literally hundreds of millions living in slumbs. They should fix there own problems before criticising us.

Revolting Peasant, they are obviously not doing so in Ireland, but the point is if the Indian ministry of foreign affairs is to be consistent, they would have to make the same point about the Indian citizens elsewhere.

‘The point Dom is making is that the Indian government cannot criticise us’

Why not? Our laws have effectively killed one of their citizens.

The law didn’t kill her, doctors mistake killed her.

im just wondering how you know that the indian government doesnt ‘express concern’ every time one of their citizens is killed abroad, just because you dont hear about it doesnt mean they dont, or maybe you are always in the middle east when an indian labourer falls off a scaffold? your position is ridiculous, it compares with ireland having no right to voice concern when that girl got murdered in mauritius (Michaela McAreavey) just because loads more people get murdered here

I currently live in the Middle East and have been doing business here since 2001 so I can safely say I am following the affairs closely. It’s not a ridiculous position, it is one that is querrying the hypocritical position of Indian government which is expressing concern over a single citizen while keeping their eyes closed over what happens with Indian construction workers here.

Abortion has been legal in India since 1971 John. One of their citizens has died in a foreign country under dubious circumstances so they are entitled to have an opinion.

What does it say about us, john, when when a country with a human rights record as bad as India may have been a safer place for this poor woman to seek medical help during a miscarriage?

Oh sorry yes, India is better than Ireland now in the eyes of the armchair warriors on TheJournal.ie

Morons.

werejammin,

You can’t judge an entire countries medical history on one case. Ireland is a safer place for women to have children than India – or even the UK. That is the factual reality. One tragic case doesn’t change it.

says yer man thats in here ranting every single day…

John, untwist your little knickers. I was quite plainly being specific to Savitas case. If it is proven that a procedure being refused to her, but would have been carried out in India, played a significant part in her death, then I think its quite fair to say that she would have been safer there. That does not condemn the entire Irish medical system or somehow boost Indias.

And before you call other people morons, I suggets you remove the chip you have on your shoulder for the catholic church that has powered your moronic rants for the past couple of days, using this womans tragic death for your personal soapbox.

As a poster said on here rather evocatively, referencing her own experience: Ireland is a great place to give birth, it’s a bad place to miscarry. We owe a better duty of care to women whose foetuses are unviable.

there are times i suspect that john donovan, seany breen and vincent dolan are all the same person, the similarities are uncanny if it isnt

@ werejammin- waste of time arguing with/ trying to get reason out of John Donovan. I wouldn’t waste my time.nn@ revolting peasant. Spot on. John Donovan is a troll- just likes to stir for the sake of it ( see his comments to other articles relating to savita’s death).

should we call in the troll-hunters?

So unless a country is perfect it has no right to be concerned for it’s citizens abroad when they fall foul of retarded laws and practices brought about by religious fundamentalists?

I’ve heard more sense from geese honking.

Okay. So your argument is because that aren’t good we shouldn’t be better? Well then, we’re going to go far with that attitude aren’t we.

What history?

What criticism? I can’t read anywhere in the article where the Indian authorities criticised us. They said it was a matter for concern. Which it is. What did you expect them to do? If one of your family members caught dysentery and died in some flea ridden slum in Calcutta, would you expect your government to express concern and to chase it up with the Indian authorities?

Where history?

Vishnu is a Hindu Diety not a land mass or planet.Talk about the ignorance of others.

To criticise India for expressing concern over one of their own people dying unnecessarily is the biggest red herring I’ve ever heard.

Reel it in there – I doubt your little boat of ethics will land that one…..

Jesus Norman, the fact that you didn’t get the “where the sun doesn’t shine” part there would really have Ne questioning whether you’re intellectually capable enough to be allowed converse with strangers on the Internet.

Do you have the right to tell a woman that she must carry a pregnancy to term if she doesn’t want to?

And as for India’s track record, most of us are indeed well aware of this, but there’s also parts of India that are far more westernised. All they are doing is expressing concern over the situation as many people here are, which they are right to do. We would do the exact same if some ridiculous lack of long overdue legislation in another country had led to the death of one of ours.

There are several ways to measure yourself. Of a standard, of yourself and of others. We should.be measuring of ourselves..::)
lings

You obviously have no idea of what an abortion is and how difficult it is for a mother who finds herself in the position where she feels she has no other option. No where has it become “as common as a hobby” and to say that is trite and stupid! Safe abortions have to be available where there is no chance of the foetus coming to term and where the health of the mother is at risk. It is only sheer luck that more mothers haven’t died because this much needed clarity needs to be provided by legislation.

“Abortion as a hobby”!! Really Andrew? The sheer ignorance of some people on this topic is quite staggering…

By ‘i saw on here’, you mean you looked for an arguement on here which fit your beliefs, ignoring, for example, the doctors who note they’re not sure about when exactly when they can perform an abortion.

Can you actually explain how legislative clarity could be bad?

Sorry Andy, woman should have the right to choose, and the rest of us should do all we can to help, whatever the decision, abortion already exits for those that can afford to travel, the paternalistic attitude to those without the money is unhealthy in my view

Andrew
“A Hobby”??? What planet are you from i know from personnal experiance that women DO NOT think abortion is a hobby or another form of birth control. They make a decision they have to live with for the rest of thier life. It is a womans body, and a womans decision and they should have a right to decide to have an abortion or not.

Who are you to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her body? As far as i am concerened a woman should be allowed to have an abortion upto the point in which life can be sutained outside of the womb currently thats around 24 weeks i think. Once life can be sustained outside of the womb i feel that it is then that that foetus has the right to life.

Ok Andrew, one or two things..
Vincent Dolan was going around repeating the lie that there’s already legislation that covers this on the articles yesterday. There is not.
Gavan (journal writer) came in and explained it to him. There’s a Supreme Court ruling, and there has been since 1992, but there is NO LEGISLATION. That’s exactly the problem, without that legislation the doctors could still very realistically be charged under the Offences against the person act. People want legislation because we are supposed to have it and the government have avoided putting it in place for almost 21 years.
If you want to, check over yesterday’s stories (I think it was the one about the vigils / protests), you will see the post from Gavan and hopefully you will see your error.

As for people lining up to get abortions “as a hobby” are you for real? Are you actually that poorly informed? An abortion is not a pleasant experience, that’s like saying people enjoy food poisoning! May I suggest you get educated, because this is the problem most of the anti choicers seem to have – the information they’re basing their opinions on tends to be utter bullshit.

Actually, Shanti, I was bored last weekend. So just for the craic, I was like, “I know! I’ll lie to my family, because I’m worried they’ll judge me, empty out my savings, take a bus over to England and back within 52 hours and have an uncomfortable procedure performed.” Chess just isn’t doing it for me anymore.

I thought that the law states that abortion could be performed when the life of the mother was very much at risk, which was the case here. So it would have been covered under current law? If anyone could clarify that it would be appreciated. Also, I hope you understand the “hobby” comment was an exaggerated metaphor depicting a situation whereby a woman could have one regardless of her previous circumstances leading to the pregnancy, socioeconomic situation or the predicted neo-natal health of the foetus etc etc. To be able to access that facility so easily would be worrying.

Andrew from what several of the journals staff have said trying to clear up this misunderstanding on the various threads, while there is a Supreme Court ruling, there is no legislation to give it effect. So no, really the doctors would be taking huge risks and we do not know yet who ultimately made that call. We do know that if there were legislation, the doctors would have known exactly what they were and were not permitted to do and have done it.

With regards abortion on demand.. It’s not a decision one makes lightly, to assume so really shows a lack of respect for women’s emotional intelligence. It’s a decision that most women make after agonising over it for a while (unless there’s other reasons for it, such as medical, rape etc). It’s not a pleasant procedure, the women I know who have had them said that it was horrible. It’s also not cheap.
If we were to introduce abortion I would hope that we would also be looking at preventing as many unwanted pregnancies as possible too. Contraception is cheaper, easier, and better than abortion, abortion is only ever a very difficult decision, the idea that if it were legal women would suddenly start throwing caution to the wind and just aborting later is not only ludicrous, it’s actually a little insulting.

Thanks Shanti for clearing up the confusion regarding legislation. There really should already be guidelines in black and white.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/women_s_health/abortion_information_the_law.html

Abortion is illegal in Ireland except where there is a real and substantial risk to the life, (as distinct from the health) of the mother.

I am surprised it is now being discovered that this is not formalised by law. But I remember the case of woman who bled to death after delivery due to negligence of medical staff and lack of attention of doctors. I am amazed at how little care pregnant women get in Ireland. Both my kids were born in the Middle East and my wife was getting an obstetrician appointment every month with scan and then 4D scan twice for abnormalities. The last two months the appointments were forth nightly. This is in stark contrast with Ireland where the pregnant women can at best hope to get the ‘ah you’re grand’ knock on the belly every three months by a midwife. The problem is not in legislation but in the sloppy way the medical services are delivered in Ireland.

Dom, you are wrong. I had my children in the early eighties here in Ireland and I had monthly obs check-ups and fortnightly in the last two months. I’m not surprised that there is good maternal care in the middle east as it would appear that that is all they value women for – their ability to breed. Women have very few other human rights there.

That’s the right attitude David Walsh. We are not going to be better or try to improve ourselves… just f@&k off! Great way to be.

So what! What are you saying, this death is okay because her original country was worse? We shouldn’t try improve because there are worse places to live. Wow, glad some people are proud that everything is okay as long as we aren’t the worst!